Miss Dee

I hope not; that's a bit too "inspirational romance novel" for me. If I remember correctly, didn't they establish in the last episode with Nevins that Corbin and company found a hidden fortune? Once Nevins cleared Corbin of any wrongdoing, maybe Joe felt like he could use the money. They could have established it more clearly, though.

People: we got a head kiss from Abbie, and an aborted physical embrace from Ichabod. Please tell me someone can screen shot (screen shoot?) these beautiful moments....

I thought Joe's gesture showed his heart was in the right place, but he obviously did not see the bigger ramifications of it until Jenny pointedly (and rightly) spelled them out. White male privilege blurring his thought processes, maybe? With a dash of "rich guy throws money at the problem to make it go away"? Which is why I'm glad Jenny schooled him and he seemed to get it in the end. A lot of shows would have left it as a grand romantic gesture and not address the underlying issues. And that, in turn, made a good contrast to Ichabod, who is *extremely* concerned with the boundaries between Abbie and himself and is daring to go only as far as he feels propriety and respect allows him. Even after all this went down, he was not going to approach Abbie until she asked. And felt he had to apologize to her for even mentioning her fascination with the symbol, even though the damn thing had such a hold on Abbie that it nearly overcame the *frigging Witness bond*. So I think that is the purpose of the trailer plot - to show the differences between these two relationships. I've compared these before to the relationships on Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and the juxtaposition of them hit once more in this episode. Jenny and Joe are the "traditional" romance - two people who like each other and start dating and have to navigate the usual pitfalls in those circumstances. (Including the interracial ones, but I'm leaving any discussion of that to people more qualified to speak to it than I am.) Whereas Ichabod and Abbie - the "unacknowledged lovers", to slightly misuse a Jane Austen phrase - are navigating these waters in a different way. They too discuss boundaries, unencumbered by any introduction of the physical into their relationship and with the perspective of both age (they are slightly older) and the experience of being completely displaced in space and time. And the results are this: Joe has to be led step by step into a new perspective on what his "grand gesture" looked like from Jenny's point of view because his perception of her needs was completely misguided as to what she actually needed; contrast that with Ichabod's apology and his attempts to see his actions from Abbie's perspective and her needs. This is not to knock Joe; once he realized what he'd done wrong he was on board, rather than arguing that she should see things his way. And to continue the comparison, look at the difference this makes to the women and how they respond. Jenny kisses Joe to let him know it's all right but then enters her trailer and leaves him outside. Whereas Abbie talks about her experiences, then gives the medallion - a symbol of her attempts to handle her fears and her stresses on her own - to Ichabod. And I don't mean to suggest either one is wrong for her reaction, they are both perfectly understandable. Joe crossed Jenny's boundaries when he should have known better; she forgives him but needs to send the message that her boundaries are *hers* and not there for him. Whereas Ichabod shows that he already gets this, and demonstrates his willingness to go right up to the door and knock, but never to enter without invitation. And as a result, Abbie lowers her defenses and lets him cross those boundaries she's put up, because she knows he can be entrusted with entry. So I think the trailer story was a really good story beat between they way these matters would go in most relationships with Joe and Jenny, and then comparing that with the more idealistic way between Ichabod and Abbie. The message: theirs is an uncommon romance, where the ground work for successful navigation of a relationship is being laid now, before any introduction of physical attraction or acknowledgement of a change in their emotions to one another. In other words: Ichabbie are completely ruining each other for anyone else.

Yes, the Ichabbie was strong with this one! And I caught that kiss at the top of the head too. I still would have liked Ichabod hugging her on the couch at the end, but considering he made it pretty much textual that he's being extremely solicitous of boundaries.... I highly enjoyed the sojourn through Leed's secret lab; felt like old times. And it was nice to have a thinking "demon" for once.

I kind of like it that Rip screws up a lot. He's emotionally compromised and trying to corral a bunch of independent thinkers with serious impulse control problems and no respect for a chain of command. I've rarely seen the "storming" stage of a team-building show blow up so spectacularly, and it's a lot of fun. Plus the "norming" stage will feel more earned. And having the captain be part of the zoo rather than the trainer that gentles them all feels right.

Sounds like that must have been what happened with Dickie? Unless I misunderstood that segment.

No, they were a brief supernova of perfection. *sigh* But seriously, tell me that shot HalcyonDays posted above couldn't have come directly from that "Dust to Dust" video. Perfect song, I'm telling you!

You know, I was half wondering the same thing??

I thought about her sitting in the armchair, him kneeling on the floor imploring her to please open up and let him in.... On the other hand, they could just acknowledge the height difference and work with it. Think Rhett and Scarlett in Gone With the Wind; I could see Ichabbie holding each other and gazing into each others' eyes while beautiful cinematography rolls in the background....

I've long speculated that maybe people like Ichabod and Abbie have been doing this work throughout centuries, but always on their own, maybe aided by documents (books, letters) from their predecessor as that appears to be a strong theme in this series. Lone Witnesses, if you will. However, when Katrina caused Ichabod to be raised again in the future, for the first time on earth two Lone Witnesses were here at the same time and found each other. I thought this could be a good plot point down the road - it wouldn't be hard to write in some sort of prophecy or speculation that there have always been Lone Witnesses for a reason, that the emotional bonds were strong even when separated by time and communication was limited to writing. Therefore, having two of them physically together in the same space would create such an emotional bond that there's a danger they will put each other ahead of everything. That's where a prophecy would be a good twist - something about the world being doomed if two Lone Witnesses should find themselves together. If this plot point were being developed as we watch Abbie and Ichabod grow closer, it would put some tension in the show about their relationship without having to resort to will-they-won't-they tactics or Ross/Rachel boomeranging or drama in their relationship. Instead the drama would be in the tension of wanting them together just as they want it, but knowing it could spell disaster for the world by being together.

He didn't answer Joe then, I don't think. But if I remember correctly, when he tells Abbie there was something he wanted to tell her in the Catacombs of Endless Time (while instigating the Epic Hand Porn, I might add), he kinda gives Joe this sidelong look, like Joe should know what's coming. Don't know if he was trolling poor Ichabbie-rootin' Joe (as a stand in for 2/3 of their audience), or if he honestly lost his nerve, or recalculated his options during that pause and decided this was not the time - not when Abbie had just barely escaped her ordeal; it might have occurred to him that it could be interpreted as taking advantage of her vulnerability. That's probably why he's trying to show his love via actions rather than words right now; he figures a PTSD-ing Abbie is not in the right time and place to make a decision on any declarations he has to make. So instead of barreling ahead, he's taking it slow, being solicitous of her well-being, biding his time until he feels it's the right moment to tell her what he feels. In other words: what we got ourselves right here is a good ol'-fashioned courtship.

I like how the singers are a tall bearded guy in a ratty jacket and a short brunette. The library even looks like the archives!

So as I'm recovering from a procedure today, in my anesthesia-fueled ruminations it hit me: we need an Ichabbie thread! One where fans of the pairing can come in and squee (or, God forbid, moan) over all the romance that I am now about 78% sure is coming, without taking over all the other threads on the forum. I realize that there is an Ichabbie fanfic thread here too, so if the mods feel like merging the two I'm totally cool with that. To start us off: I'm a fan of the (now sadly defunct) Civil Wars. Their love songs were pretty folksy and offbeat, and I think a lot of them would have fit Ichabbie really well. But the best of them is "Dust to Dust": It's not your eyes It's not what you say It's not your laughter that gives you away You're just lonely You've been lonely, too long All your actin' Your thin disguise All your perfectly delivered lies They don't fool me You've been lonely, too long Let me in the wall, you've built around And we can light a match and burn it down Let me hold your hand and dance 'round and 'round the flame In front of us Dust to dust You've held your head up You've fought the fight You bear the scars You've done your time Listen to me You've been lonely, too long Let me in the wall, you've built around And we can light a match and burn them down And let me hold your hand and dance 'round and 'round the flames In front of us Dust to dust You're like a mirror, reflecting me Takes one to know one, so take it from me You've been lonely You've been lonely, too long We've been lonely We've been lonely, too long (Video below!)

Well, damn it. Because you know what we're going to get now: Ichabod flashbacking to Betsy Ross trying to determine if she picked up anything similar that might help him cure Abbie. Oh well, if that's the price we have to pay for a meaty Abbie storyline - and possibly some hurt/comfort Ichabbie goodness while we're at it - so be it!

No worries OnceSane; it's all good. Thank you though for taking the trouble to explain; much appreciated.

Do you know what's cute about that? His acknowledgement that "diminutive" is descriptive of Abbie's size. He really does tower over her.

She'd got other things on her mind, and it's evident that she's not herself. Ichabod wasn't always thoughtful during the worst of the Katrina Infestation. I think it's incredibly sweet of him and I'm sorry Abbie wasn't in a place to realize what a gesture it was - but I got why she didn't and his getting rebuffed a little isn't going to kill him. He just needs to persevere; his love will breakdown her defenses eventually. I hope. I loved Joe and Jenny on that couch and I don't care who knows it.

*groan* Why are they forgetting to unlock the episode threads?? We need to talk about this!!

Dang, I loved that list. Some enterprising person needs to string all those moments together in a YouTube video.

Definitely not. She'd start shaking or something, and Ichabod would have to envelop her in his arms and hold her close so she could work through it in comfort. ....What?

Why do I have this horrible suspicion that Daniel is going to be sacrificed just as Peggy realizes what she feels for him? Don't go there, show!

Dear Lord, who put what into the water over there that made all the men attractive this episode? I never gave two hoots about Sousa before, but I found him all kinds of hot this episode. Same with Jarvis. And this is the most likeable and interesting Thompson has been on the entire series! That dance number was surreal. I was half amused, half bemused. All I know is I now want to see a ballroom dancing movie with Enver Gokajojo or whatever the hell his name is. Man can move! I agree that the mobster is oddly touching with Whitney. And his mother is hilarious. The scene with them arguing about the sauce with Carter and Sousa cleaning up the place in the background was hilarious. Peggy and Jarvis, never fight like that again. You nearly broke my heart.

Yay! I don't watch it either, but I'm glad they went there.