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Podcast 12 – Our Expensive Lifestyle That Shows Our Disconnect Jeremy sounds sick and we start with Auj going on about how his tuberculosis and how they are WORKING SO HARD Jeremy got sick. They went to Bend for *weeks* and Huntington Beach for a business retreat and it was so fun but then they were so beat, and then they went to a marriage retreat and then Jeremy getting sick took the wind out of the sails…. Essentially this means they are putting little effort into the podcast and will just tell us about their marriage retreat. The Herbs have been married for twenty years and invited three couples along this year. Jeremy thinks its special to be invited to something so “rhythmatic”. They rented an AirBNB for this and Jeremy found the place ugly. They spent two nights at this. They hung out the first night and had sessions and Auj tells Jer to pause while she points out that there was a pre-retreat task of writing down the ideal state of their marriage versus the reality of the marriage and each had to do this. The idea is to compare each other’s ideals and realities and close the gaps and you know? Maybe the Herbs? Should do a book on marriage. Auj carries most of the conversation. They talk about how they handle the communication category of their marriage and how they work to improve it and it’s basically a litany of constant affirmations. They write each other an affirmation daily. They tell each other their word of the day. I again note how time consuming their constant need to be with each other affirming their marriage is. Seriously, the endless constant work of affirming makes their marriage sound like a complete chore. Also, one rule is “No phones in bed” and seriously, if you have to make that a rule then you – and not the public you bitch at – are the ones that have a problem with cell phone use. They have some pleasing views on child rearing, they basically want to have a happy family. To achieve that they are going to read some parenting books, commit to Thursday family days, morning bible time with Ember, and setting up family pillars. Auj wants to “camp out” on this. Jer agrees and is stoked. They both really are down on “helicopter parents”, which is Jeremy’s case I find hilarious. They recommend a book but aren’t sure of the title, maybe Love and Logic? Essentially it involves giving a child choice. I also find it hilarious that these two say they had not read any books on parenting before. They praise themselves for how clever they parent. They have a marriage mission statement. Basically they want their marriage to be a representation of Christ and to inspire others. They also have family pillars which he runs down but basically its words of affirmation. Its huge and Auj warns him not to breeze past it and then they kinda do. Oh my goodness, one of their goals is to have family dinner at the table once a week. ONCE A WEEK! Auj corrects him after his lengthy explanation of how they need to be better at actually getting to the table, that they do actually eat as a family. That was pointed. Jer then babbles how busy and burned out they were from last year and desires and deepest desires versus strongest desires. He then goes on a rant about marriage building and having the family stand for something and how important it is to Jesus to have a great marriage and how *intentional* marriage has to be in order to last. It’s really pretty clear that Jeremy feels his parents didn’t talk about much about their marriages. Thorns! Being sick for both. Auj notes she wasn’t super well but having a sick husband and a sick baby made things SO HARD. Roses! Auj’s rose is maybe Jeremy’s haircut. No, it’s doing the marriage retreat. Jeremy’s rose is the retreat as well, and with hiring his buddy Dan to work for “the company”. Auj insists that Jeremy discuss his hair. He can’t stand it when people have a strong opinion on his hair and then don’t donate because people need to shut their mouths. Jer says “for those who did gave” – at least he realizes he choked the grammar here – that the money raised went to CharityWater. Also apparently there’s some mystery to LPBW fans as to who cut his hair and why. I assume it was the same guy who shaved his head on the show when he was a teen but that’s just me. But do know, Jeremy thinks if you didn’t donate, you have absolutely no right to judge his hair. I suspect Jer felt the sting of people complaining that he reached his goal a few weeks ago and wasn’t shaving his head. I’m genuinely curious what work Dan Meichtry, childhood friend of Jer, will be doing for them. Also, I really wish Jeremy would stop referring to the internet and social media as “the wild wild west”. But really, I wish Jer and Auj would acknowledge that taking a weekend off – no doubt leaving their baby with family – to navel gaze about their family pillars, isn’t really an option for people. I’d also like them to acknowledge that the risk involved in being an entrepreneur are a lot higher for people who aren’t coming from their starting points. Both Jeremy and Auj come from *wealthy* families and it really shows.

Yeah and honestly as I watched the hoarders twist and cry and totally flip over throwing out a bottle cap, I just found myself thinking "if they have x,y and z home violations and three days to fix or else the guv'mint takes the home... maybe that's for the best". With rare exception I was also generally enraged that children weren't being taken from parents and how fucking rarely animal hoarders were ever jailed. Fuck that they are in their sixties, they learn they get away with it when they get a slap on the wrist for the 100 dead cats in the house and they WILL rehoard. The obesity shows just depressed me. I used to like getting drunk to Intervention and looking down on the heroin addict shooting up in the men's room with her three year old daughter watching but I admit to being an awful person. I like Marie's show because it's nice to see normal people for the most part with messy houses. I also like that she seems very positive about how she is helping. If she seems a little um..., Sailor Moon giggly school girl, I think I lot of my surprise is that there are Japanese people who fit that stereotype. I do wish she spoke English better because I think her points would come across better if they weren't subtitled. I usually watch while doing something else so if I don't look up, I miss the subtitles.

I don't think America has lost interest but I do think Hoarders, Hoarders:Buried Alive, Animal Cops (not technically a clean up show but often focused on animal hoards especially the Houston version) and sundry others just... exhausted us. My main takeaway from these shows was that hoarders were mentally ill but also just nasty people. I also think a lot of the less hoardy shows got lower ratings and probably had too many people who were hoarders or family and friends of hoarders applying I kinda wonder how Marie would handle a hoarder, a real hoarder, but honestly I think she and her Japanese interpreter/companion/maybe lover would take one look at the bottles of human urine and the feces filled tub and be all "You know... this doesn't spark joy" and leave.

Oh I see how this will play out. The boy will have problems. There will be some sort of sudden death emergency moment and we will be treated to Conrad being shrieked at by the Mom that she trusted him! She went with the surgery that Conrad said was safe and now her only remaining son is dying/dead! Then Conrad collapses in a puddle of despair and goes to find Nic and OF COURSE this is the night that Nic either finally screws Dr. Perfect and or Dr. Perfect kinda rapes her but Conrad walks in on the end and thinks she betrayed him like the whore she is! This sort of show can be predictable. :)

Wait, did they hire a male nanny?

Is it crazy that I genuinely expect this exact plot with Conrad smirking down at the bastard as he lies on a hospital bed on his way to the OR and Conrad reminding him that Chastain ONLY stocks Quovadis devices?

It honestly looks a ton better. I could do without the drama video but really he needed that hair cut. As for Ember, her " whatevs, dad" nonchalance is cute.

I pray, to Jesus even, that the chapter title of the book is genuinely "loosing the purity battle". Because fucking really, these two imbeciles deserve the spelling and grammar flames.

I'm curious how they will present that. I mean, let me be honest, I personally could care less in the grand scheme of things. I also certainly don't have absolute proof they are "born again" and not real virgins when they married but there's evidence to strongly suggest they were not. Depending on whether you believe the poster on reddit who professed to be something of an insider - Jeremy slept with his first girlfriend Sarah (she was briefly on the show in season one) and Sara finds his claims of virginity amusing. Jeremy was known to be flirty and *aware* that women were attracted to him and likely had ample opportunity to engage. He also was clearly not raised in a home that valued male virginity - his father Matt was rather openly telling him to sample the wares before buying the cow, that youth was the time to sow wild oats etc etc. And frankly Jeremy has never struck me as someone capable of a lot of self discipline. He spent his teen years on tv with fans adoring him. I wouldn't be shocked. Audrey I would give more of a chance of it. It sounds like she was raised in a relatively conservative home and her parents actively encouraged her religious stuff. (She refers to a group of her childhood friends as The God Squad because they were all so devout as children) At the same time, there are hints that Auj wasn't entirely qualified for a white wedding dress. There was a journal entry on her blog - long gone now but it was discussed online when she first began appearing on the show - where she refered to undertaking 'a year of celibacy' to step back from her wild ways at college. There's the reality that she does refer to her time in college as a sort of constant nonstop bacchanalian rave parties where life was a long contest of raunchy debauchery. I don't really care if they were virgins but I dislike the idea that even if they were genuine virgins, that they think that is something they should brag about and that it makes them better than the dirty whores who didn't stay clean for marriage. But it does get irritating when they are primly looking down their noses at others when it's probably a lie or a denial on their part.

Frankly, I assume Auj has a more private Instagram or social media account for real friends and family. That said, I do not follow Auj or Jeremy on Instagram but I can always go and look at the photos as a guest. With THAT said, Izzy and Jacob aren't two lil innocent farm kids who ain't got no idea what social media is or how to whip up a crowd. Thats true of Jeremy "I hate social media and OMG MY ANALYTICS" Roloff and Auj "#ad and btw I'm so spiritual and driven and OMG MY ANALYTICS!" Roloff.... so everyone isn't a dumb kid with no idea how social media works and more to the point, everyone involved has SOME awareness that they are not anonymous "randoms" that are only followed by actual friends. They all know that fans watch these accounts, and actual news media watches these accounts. One of three things is going on. 1. Izzy just got bored with Auj's constant ads to fans. This is the most reasonable possibility. 2. Izzy and Jacob are making a public passive aggressive power play to show Jer and Auj their displeasure at the idea that the marrieds don't consider Izzy acceptable because of her slutty ways and don't want her calling herself a member of the family until she actually marries Jacob. This is possible but if true - then Jacob and Izzy need to grow the fuck up. They're NOT married so no, Izzy aint that child's aunt and while I think Jer and Auj are both hypocrits on the sleeping around before marriage, you know what? A lot of people not just Jer and Auj don't approve of couples living together and being married in everything but name and legalities. Trust me, Judge Judy ain't no fan of shacking up either, and Izzy and Jacob are old enough to deal with someone not approving of them without throwing petty passive aggressive fits. 3. The least likely but again, not one of these idiots is a forlorn Amish teen with no idea how all this works. It's entirely possible they're all just fucking with the public. Trust me , they don't have much respect for fans and they have Daddy Matt's "I love fucking with you until you beg me for details" example to work with. Never assume any of them are telling the truth.

Since it's about their dating time when Auj was in college, I assume we will hear a lot about how she was on cross country but was CONSTANTLY on crutches because she was so busy overachieving, she was continually on the injured list. And you know, the horror of breaking her ankle where Satan almost took her soul until she cried out to Jesus "with blurry eyes" to hold her safe against the Dark Lord. Hilariously she also describes her two and a half months with the broken ankle as a fun time in Los Angeles where she was riding in Jeremy's bitch seat on his motorcycle so.... But then, there's always something dramatically wrong with Audrey that she is quick to tell you about so you know she is pushing through pain. Her mastitis was the WORST EVER SEEN and god knows we all know how she FOUGHT FOR HER MILK OH JESUS HOW SHE SCREAMED LIKE SHE WAS IN LABOR AS SHE SUCKLED HER PRECIOUS CHILD AND ENDURED THE AGONY EVERY TWO HOURS BECAUSE BREAST IS BEST AND IN JESUS'S NAME SHE IS THE BEST MAMA DESPITE THE HORROR AND AGONY! As a decent person, I don't wish ill health or physical pain on others but I do think Auj really could use some perspective on her medical complaints.

I just sort of adore how Audrey lists her flaws as doing too much, committing to things, and *overachieving*. I mean, Jesus Christ, really Audrey? You *achieve too much*? You need to step back from being such an overachiever? Do you ever read your little missives on how you are too damn wonderful? And your goal this year is to step back from overachieving? Wait, if you ever reconsidered your words, you might notice the spelling errors.

Huh, I thought Amy was doing *nothing* but sitting on her ass making Matt miserable out of spite. Mind you, I would be genuinely shocked if this was some sort of tell all but I admit a wee bit of curiosity on this one. Meanwhile the blurbs on amazon about Jeremy and Auj's book allude to how they had to overcome medical problems and really, these two really need to talk to people with real health issues.

I think he should have said something long before the wedding day, but whatever he had with Priya… I don't think Devon and Priya were such an awesome couple that its a complete shock that he left her at the altar. That is cruel and douchy, but ultimately Priya is better off not marrying the guy. My personal take was that the two of them were friends but not in love so I am ok with the basic writing plan to leave the good looking Indian guy single for later plot points. Does it make Devon look like an ass? Yup, especially since Julian is maybe dead but... if I look at it as a real person's life and not as a soap opera - does Priya really want a nice wedding, no embarrassment and a lifetime with a man who doesn't really love her? And is it really asshole on his part to not go through with the marriage when he had doubts? But thats just me, and his doubts could have and should have been addressed before the family gathered for a wedding from different continents. The problem of Bell is that he's the show's villian so he will always wiggle off the hook until the actor decides to not sign his next contract. I have a feeling he's going to come out a hero with the Quo Vadis situation smelling like a rose. Honestly the fact that he's so saintly and Conrad like is why it feels like a set up. Also I stand by my thought that he's not really a doctor or has a past.... Did anyone even check his resume?

I really wouldn't read a lot into that. The marrieds Instagram is basically for business use. Why clog up your feed with business posts?

Oh I do, but my takeaway is that it's a fairly dumb tactic and easily investigated :) I get that Devon is an obvious first suspect for Julian's disappearence but I think he's too easily cleared for this to drag out in a realistic way. I also may be a minority but I am not angry with him for leaving Priya hours before the wedding. Yes, it is cruel to Priya, I don't deny that and she has a right to be angry that he didn't raise his concerns sooner... but is the better answer here "He should have ignored his concerns and married her despite a) not really truly loving her and b) not being on board with her plan to completely alter his career by forcing him to trail after her"? Because thats what happens if he keeps his mouth shut. She gets a husband that isn't in love with her, who is marrying her because of societal pressure and who will likely resent her. Is that really better than facing some embarrassment? I would have liked Bell to dangle on Lane's hook for a bit longer but *something* had to resolve there and I think a lot of her victims would be ok with the bitch being gunned down. NewSaintDoc is way too perfect to be believed. I have to assume he molests children and or is not actually a doctor or something. This show isn't subtle but the "NOW ITS A TRIANGLE! FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!" signs are kinda too much. Likewise, I like Mina but Austin doesn't seem that patient of a man, and honestly, Micah doesn't seem like that much of a catch.

Agreed. I'm going to take a wild guess and say Auj's dad probably did something similar (as did mine to a point). I wonder if Audrey realizes she is in the "Jeremy is the man so he earned all the money and all Audrey did was mooch off her man, she did NOTHING" role that Amy get assigned. To be fair - I don't think Jeremy plans on divorce. I do think part of the problem is that Jeremy grew up in a home where women were never really considered to be "working". I'm sure that when and if this marriage collapses, that Jeremy will be much like his father, throwing up his hands and wondering why his wife got tired of how awesome he is. Because Auj and Amy are similar in one way - they were both raised that their job as a woman is to tend to her man and to be a mother. I mean, I think she really buys into the idea that now that she's married, she has to do all the baby stuff and run the house because she's the woman and she's married and if she doesn't manage, then she will be marked out as a *bad wife*. Bad wives end up divorced, and divorce is always the woman's fault because she should have pleased her man and didn't. Honestly, a LOT of Amy's misery post divorce was this mindset, this idea that everyone would basically blame her. I think a lot of her happiness and growing confidence in dealing with Matt is her realization that people aren't judging her as a bad wife and think she should have left Matt sooner. Auj being type A is why I think she's probably going to throw in the towel a lot sooner than Amy did. I think Auj is going to come up for air one day and realize she's doing all the work while Jeremy contemplates how courageous he is to not eat breakfast until a certain time of day. The Always More stuff, the MLM oils thing, the blog that she clearly does most of the work on, and the book that I strongly suspect she wrote? One day she's going to realize that she's doing all the work. I just doubt it will be soon because they still have money to cut down *her* work load. One thing I found myself wondering while listening to this current podcast was while the other couple was going on about how busy they were with four kids under the age ten was 'do these people know Jer and Auj are planning to get a nanny?' Because they've got just one kid and a lot more safety net than this couple.

Podcast 11 – On Raising Kids, Now With Added Guests! Guys, this is an hour and a half long so…Honestly, I expect some compensation. Message me and I will give you an address to send gift cards to. This is about raising kids and running a business, so basically like all the other podcasts, only now with their long time friends Aaron and Jen Smith who are their super close friends we’ve never heard of who also run a podcast called Marriage After God? They’re super smart and super wise! Point – I suspect this is totally a Zondervan related podcast as Aaron and Jen are coming out with a book at Zondervan. They’ve known Jer and Auj for 4 years. They have done marriage ministry for 7 years and Jen loves writing and feels God called her. It’s a lot of blather how hard their lives as entrepreneurs are, and a lot of talk about their mutual books and how hard it is to set boundaries. Jeremy notes that he and Auj want more children absolutely, but Jer was stunned at how hard it was to actually deal with his child. Auj likes Bend because people in Bend are like her and Jer, unlike their friends in Portland who work at Nike. The couple, Aaron and Jen, have family bible time every night and this is somehow fascinating to Jer and Auj. I get the idea here, and I rather like that Aaron tells his kids “this is my favorite time of the day”, because that’s nice to hear. Otherwise this was a lot of disorganized babble about running a business while dealing with children. Aaron and Jen seem like nice people. It’s just basically where Jer and Auj got their ideas for their own marriage ministry. Blah blah blah Jeremy thinks phones are evil and distract him from his child and needs boundaries and honestly…. Jeremy, put the phone down if you don’t like it. They end with asking about morning routines, which was blah, and life hacks, which led to a lengthy discussion of baby wipes where everyone talked over each other. Then they blither on about intermittent fasting and how that’s all about self control. The roses and thorns was also a lot of talking over each other but Jen’s rose was reading A Love Letter Life and everyone started squeezing and then there’s an ad for the book. Wait, no, this wasn’t a rose. Roses and thorns…. The couple missed a podcast. Rose? They have a book coming out. There’s a lengthy ad for their book. Honestly, I was doing other stuff while listening. What I will say is that Aaron and Jen seem nicer than Jer and Auj. This also really felt “publisher suggested”.

Honestly, I hope they don't waste a lot of time on suspecting Devon of murder because excessive texts aside, and shitty Atlanta police investigations aside, there's utterly no reason to suspect him of murdering her. In a real investigation, yes, he'd be looked at but once it was clear he was drinking with friends after ditching his wife to be the night Julien disappeared, the cops will move on. Plus, like, call me crazy, but the guy who is texting her asking her where she is seems an unlikely choice of being her murderer. I mean, yes, maybe it's a sort of alibi but really....

It's pretty similar. But to be fair, Jeff Bethke's patter is pretty standard "millennial evangelical" anyway. He comes across a bit more genuine and humble, and his stance on social media is presented in a more... intelligent and reasonable manner? Let me put it this way - he recommends toning down one's use but isn't so militant about it. Or rather, not so braggy about how he absolutely keeps Sunday as no social media day, for example. He and the wife definitely talk about setting up "rhythms" instead of goals, and pushes the "take time away to sit down and self analyze what you intend for the upcoming year" routine so yes, there's a lot of similarities. I just went thru the blog posts, I didn't listen to the podcasts because I honestly don't care that much but I have to agree with an earlier poster - the Bethkes do seem to have started first and Jeremy and Auj do seem to have almost identical terms and views and "rhythms",

Heheh I think she's had a health scare and is now equating everything to it when the ahem, obvious change in vision issue is likely that she's getting older.

I completely agree that there's some weirdness between the two couples. But at the end of the day, I don't believe this is a point where *Audrey* has to budge. Perhaps I am about to show my conservative side but you know what? Audrey, not Izzy, gets to decide who Audrey's child calls aunt. And it's not unreasonable to draw the line at unmarried girlfriends and boyfriends. Particularly if the unmarried girlfriend is the girlfriend of the brother in law who has issues with your views. But seriously - and this is a point I agree with Judge Judy on - right now Izzy and Jacob are playing at being married. They're living together and screwing and doing everything like a married couple and passive aggressively whining that poor Izzy isn't being welcomed into the family as Jacob's precious wife. Well, she's not his wife, she's his girlfriend who he bangs out of wedlock and they both surely have some awareness that in general their family doesn't approve of their lifestyle choice. As much as I don't like Audrey, she has every right to make the call on what Izzy is in her daughter's life. If this is about marital status - well, how awful, Audrey actually believes Izzy shouldn't call herself a part of the family until she actually really commits to being a part of the family. And Izzy, if Izzy really wants positive interactions with her sister in law, really needs to stop the passive aggressive whining about it because until she marries Jacob, she is not a Roloff and she's not that child's aunt and engaging social media in a "isn't this precious little me being adorbs in *wanting* to be an aunt and isn't my not actually a sister in law being kind of a mean bitch in denying me the right to claim her child as family simply because I am not actually family? How poorly I am being treated and how noble I am in bearing up under this horror?" Honestly, Auj wins this one hands down. Jacob nd Izzy aren't married and Auj has every right to establish the line as "you need to be married to Jacob in order to call yourself my child's aunt". And I hate letting Auj win.

I'm actually going to take Auj's side on this one. I don't know if I would ever be so blunt but... you know what? The basic fact is this. Izzie isn't a relative. She's not married to Jacob. She's not that child's aunt. She has as much *right* to refer to herself as "Ember Roloff's aunt" as I do - because we're both not relatives. Ignoring the "Auj irritates the shit out of me" aspect - if these were pure strangers, yes, I totally see a mom's point. It's her child. Her husband's brother's girlfriend who may or may not marry into the family shouldn't be calling herself the child's aunt. She's not. Now, would I be so blunt to someone who was probably going to be family? No... but I also would *take the fucking hint* and accept the peccadillo point from the child's actual parents without passive aggressively complaining about them. Auj needs to learn some manners but frankly so does Izzy, because this particular controversy is due to Izzy's passive aggressive public complaining.

Which might explain why she (or her assistant) called the airline ahead to let them know about her medical situation? That she says was ignored? I mean, I get that there's a portion of folks here who believed she wasn't hospitalized recently and or is lying about the severity of her hospitalization and or is lying about calling ahead or that the airline served fish at all or that this occurred at all, or is lying about how her allergy has changed over time and isn't really now prone to an anaphylactic, but based on how airlines often respond (or rather lack to respond) to allergen issues and based on the science of allergies (like Bethenny or not, science says, and anecdotal accounts back up the reality that allergies can change over time) none of this sounds insane or implausible. In fact the only thing I found hinky about the whole story is that fish was being served at all, and apparently thats more common on overseas airlines. Otherwise, take Bethenny's name out, and this story occurs pretty constantly with airlines.

In fairness to the marrieds, I am the one who used the term "incessant needs". I don't like children. Thats why I don't have any. But they didn't use the term.