Churchhoney

So that explains how they met up with the young blogger who described the service. She was at the wedding, too, according to her Twitter. I was thinking she must have been from Arkansas, but of course there were people at the wedding from all over. She posted excitedly on her Twitter about meeting Michelle. "Ran into Michelle Duggar yesterday (and today.) So great to meet her!" But looking at the picture, all I can think is, Oh, honey, can you not see that this woman is nuts? .... Her family must not be as far into the soup as the Duggars, since she attends a Christian college in Indiana, Huntington University, a United Brethren in Christ school that appears to be pretty creditable, as these things go. People, don't send your daughter to college and simultaneously encourage her to worship the education-loathing Duggars. Geez. She posted excitedly on her Twitter about meeting Michelle.

Inevitably. But only the African part, hence justifying slavery, according to some lovely interpreters over the years.

Yeah, they have so many followers that I think they may be able to keep it going for a while, too. But I think there'll be a constant dwindling of the ranks. Ben really can't be very effectively muzzled, probably. And while Jessa has a lot of fans, I don't think she has any ability or even any willingness to say encouraging or flattering things even to them. While a lot love her mean-girl persona now, I don't think you can really keep a ministry if you don't tell people what they want to hear -- including in the positive sense. And the positive sense seems to be out of Jessa's range. Plus, as they try to do this while raising kids, they're probably going to get even grumpier. And they'll both lose their looks (which I don't really think are all that to begin with) so that'll cause a gradual loss of interest, too. And I really don't see them picking up anybody new. I think they're stuck with the people who have mostly teen crushes on them at this point.

And then after one of his kids laughed at him, he cursed him (apparently effectively, given the way it's told) unto the 80 millionth generation or something. Nice guy.

Notice the fundie conflation of sins, too. "Murderer," "Worrier," committing incest, being "insecure" or "moody" -- six of one, half dozen of the other. They're pretty much on the same level. Just odd. And leading to really really bad conclusions, seems to me.

Yeah, that's what I thought, too. They must be doing something else now. ETA: Maybe they wanted a bigger audience than the warehouse church was providing. More camera withdrawal.

Haven't seen this anywhere. Sorry if it's already been posted. Blog by a woman from the Duggar set. The rest is just as horrifying, in multiple ways, as the excerpt. https://godsgirljulia.wordpress.com/i-am-josh-duggar/ "I went to church with the Duggars the Sunday before this latest scandal broke loose. At church, the pastor invited the whole Duggar family to come up, sing a song, and share their testimony. "I sat there and listened to Jim Bob as he praised his son, Josh. He went on about how he was and is a changed man. He went on about how Josh is a great godly man, who no longer struggles with this sin. And Josh stood there, nodding his head in agreement as he held one of his children."

Jezebel reviews sex abuse special. Is not thrilled with Duggars. http://jezebel.com/tlc-aired-a-sexual-assault-documentary-that-didnt-menti-1727651391

Wonder if there's some way they could both lose the match.

Yeah, I take your point, and I even agree with it in a way. I'm among those who've never watched the Duggars, just read everything I can about them because, for personal reasons, they horrify me. Despite my fascination, though, I'm so opposed to reality tv, especially when it involves children, that I just refuse to consider anyone who's been on reality tv as a public person. I think that just encourages them to think the same of themselves and encourages more people to try to get on reality tv and encourages the networks to keep on pushing it as their cheap-ass alternative to something better and smarter! Thus -- even though I agree with you that Anna put herself out there as a kind of role model and advice giver and probably should be held accountable for that in some way, I just don't want her to say any more. I don't think any interview with her actually would or could hold her accountable, for one thing. When people don't want to answer interview questions, they just evade them until the interviewer gives up. That's what she'd do, I'm sure, and it wouldn't be instructive to anybody. And it wouldn't even make her truly consider what she's been involved in. It'd just make her feel like a martyr -- but a martyr who can be paid for blathering to the media. I wouldn't like that as an outcome!

So here's hoping that we never see an interview. Even if they weren't the hideous Duggars, whom no one should ever again pay to spout off their sick or confused or otherwise deeply flawed ideas to the public, I wouldn't want to read an interview with Anna. She's a private citizen going through an awful -- but not uncommon -- period of her life, while raising four tiny kids. No one should be asking her to talk "on the record." She shouldn't be talking "on the record." The public has no legitimate interest in knowing what she's thinking or feeling. Encouraging Duggars to talk for money is just further confusing this already nutso family in their ideas about how money is actually earned. Plus, she's a hella confused person whose blathering on this painful topic would be instructive to no one and probably not even interesting to those who just want to gawk.

Brotherhood of the Traveling Shirts? ... the pants did come from a thrift shop, IIRC.

Okay, that's one clear positive point for the Duggars. The Duggar obsession drives fast and encyclopedic learning about the nutso branch of the Christian Right.

Good question.

Red meat to the lioness. Jim Bob'd better hope he doesn't run out of cash for bully gifts or the tell-all book will be on its way. He'd also better hope no more of the kids have Jessa's bullying determination.

Stop articulating my worst fears so precisely. Not that I care that Jessa wants to FU Michelle. Can't blame her, really. But the tv thing -- argh. Luckily, I think reality in the form of adoption agencies, the toll childbearing takes on your hot body and money money money will intervene before they can get too far with this "plan." But, still -- awful. Also disturbing is the fact that, unlike just about any other young silly couple with a plan like this, when these two mention it nobody in their immediate acquaintance is even likely to look uncomfortable and suggest that they just proceed carefully. This probably sounds like a good plan to their parents, siblings and most of the Duggar hangers-on. That's appalling.

True.

OMG. Don't tell me that the adoption plans are now linked up in their nasty little heads with another bid to get themselves back on television. Hoping this is just a misleading juxtaposition created by Radar Online. But it's scary to me. ... Not that anyone will let them adopt a bunch of kids, thank goodness. But how else does Binjermin propose to pay the bills for this army? "And the couple even revealed they hope to have as many as 20 kids — but many of them will be adopted. The couple revealed they hope to prepare to welcome children into their home after they complete an adoption class within the next year. "So is more reality TV in the pair’s future? It remains to be seen, Seewald said in an interview. “I don’t know…if people want to watch us, I don’t mind, but I want to live a peacefully quiet life and just serve the Lord and if people find that interesting, then awesome, but I won’t seek that out myself,” he said.'

In the Washington area, people would try to get him to join the interfaith conference, which includes Baha’i, Buddhist, Hindu, Islamic, Jain, Jewish, Latter-day Saints, Protestant, Roman Catholic, Sikh, Zoroastrian and more. We could invite him to some of these events. http://ifcmw.org/programs/ The annual Interfaith Concert is especially fun. I'd really like to see what Ben and Jessa do when someone reaches out to them from across what they consider a Hell-guarded barrier and seeks mutual understanding. They look so angry and grumpy to me a lot of the time. I wonder how they'd respond to a sincere attempt at dialogue, bridge building and a search for common ground. Okay, I suppose I'm dreaming ... but they're young, they're thinking about the birth of their first child. Surely they must have some desire for peace, love and understanding in there somewhere, right?

Thank you, Josh.

Well, there are a bunch of ideas mucking around here here. I was responding to the idea that mainstream Christianity doesn't subscribe to the belief that all humans are sinners. And it seems pretty clear to me that, contrarywise, although some very modernized and liberal churches really really downplay that and say that they don't believe in "original sin," nevertheless the theologies and doctrines that are the basis of every mainstream Christian group I'm aware of do say that all humans are born into sin and are sinners. Jessa, though, implies all sorts of other stuff, notably that bad things are somehow visited on people because they're all sinners, which, as you say, isn't something the Bible implies at all. Same for her implication that being "a sinner" means that a person can't also be described as "a good person." But she clearly picks quotes and words for shock value. And the shock she really likes is the one in which she accuses everybody who isn't a Duggar of being a bad person who's likely to be sent horrible suffering now and through eternity because of their unredeemableness. I didn't intend to espouse any of that. But I think it's pretty clear that all Christian belief requires that believers regard themselves and everybody else as sinners -- however they and their churches define that term. Otherwise, there's not much reason to say that Christ died for everybody.

Well, that may be kind of true if mainstream Christianity means a lot of people in the pews and what they think their churches preach. When it comes to the theologies and founding documents actually espoused by Christian churches, everybody except Jesus being completely born into sin and being sinners descended from sinner Adam is the standard, and Jesus was born perhaps primarily to remedy that Presbyterians, Lutherans, Catholics, you name it. It's in their in the creeds and doctrines and catechisms. A few of the most liberal and modernized denominations -- the ones more interested in a social gospel like the United Church of Christ, for example -- kind of downplay it a bit. But it's there too, really, in my opinion. The UCC creed, a much less blatant statement but I think the implication is the same: We believe...In Jesus Christ, the man of Nazareth, our crucified and risen Lord,he has come to us and shared our common lot, conquering sin and death and reconciling the world to himself....He calls us into his church to...resist the powers of evil....He promises to all who trust him forgiveness of sins. In fact, among the UCC's declared sins is racism -- so when you start including attitudes like that, you're in some ways broadening the definition of true sins from what they seem to be in some other churches -- and you're implicating pretty much everybody. I think it's this. They love to grab onto cutesy statements and post them, for the shock impact, I suppose.

I love this. You know, maybe the Duggs could get a theater at Branson. They could have singing; harp, piano, violin and guitar playing; trapeze swinging; modest pole dancing and pseudo-striptease-in-too-tight garments (courtesy, Jessa); advanced dog- and bat-calling (courtesy, Michelle's squeaky voice); cowboy videos; mime-to-music (Derick); modest beefcake posing (Ben); circus-worthy counter walking (Howlers and Littles); and slapstick routines in which used cars containing bridal couples are quickly and expertly trashed (John David and the Company). Also: R-rated mime in an adults-only mini-theater decorated as a mini-golf course just off the main venue (Jim Bob). Grandma can wash all the costumes. Giving new meaning to the term "sitting governor."

Well, he would think so. Not clear he's ever met any, however.

Rick Perry's. Kind of mind boggling, actually.