Churchhoney

All of this. And then we're also back to the perpetual mystery of why this whole darned family seems to be so bloody boring. You'd expect a reader, an artist, a gardener, a cook, a snappy wardrobe-overhauling dresser, a gadget inventor -- something -- among all those kids. You'd think that just sheer bloody boredom would drive them to it. But there doesn't seem to be much, if any, evidence of creative, analytical or enterprising thought in the whole lot thus far.

Don't do it with Jim Bob. The poor child might have a stroke. Don't you think that J and D are probably as ignorant of that as they are of a lot of other things? They're really just followers, I think. So they're following somebody who may know this but enjoy having his little crusade and money-pot going anyway, or some sort of nutty person who truly thinks he can engage in a war for the world against the Catholics (and any other non-fundie church that shows up). And, actually, on paper at least, conservative Protestants have made surprising inroads in Latin over the past few decades. Of course those numbers, like most religion-head-count numbers, may be inflated and count as converts people who go back to doing whatever they did before as soon as the converters leave. But there does seem to be some shift because of these hard efforts. http://www.pewforum.org/2014/11/13/religion-in-latin-america/

When you look at the number of people who've gone down there enjoying their mission-cations, though -- in all those group photos the Dills have displayed and the people who've commented on those photos on their instagrams about taking similar trips -- it seems pretty clear to me that this brand of missionarying may well be becoming more popular rather than less so. I can't imagine it stopping anytime soon. And I think the midwife stuff is really just another Duggar fantasy cum cover-for-missioncation-life. I have a hard time seeing Jill even finishing the preparation for being a CPM. And CPMs, while they can be just people who irrationally hate science or the medical system, can be good, just as holistic medicine people and so on can be good. There is room for people in health care outside of the medical establishment, and that may be especially true in less developed back-country regions. Those kinds of health care get a bad rap because plenty of charlatans and anti-science nutcases take them up, but it's possible to do them in a responsible and helpful way. No Duggar is likely to do so, though, because Duggars are uneducated and lazy. I believe they think they're saving the world by means of these messages. .... I think they're sincere in that. But I think it comes from a combination of arrogance and ignorance, both of which their particular brand of religion seems to promote. I wish something would wake them up and spur them to examine whether their beliefs about these things are valid because, aside from being dyed-in-the-wool grifters, I do think both Jill and Derrick kind of mean well. But I doubt it'll ever happen in the cocoon of like-minded people (and like-minded con artists) they live in.

Me, too. And there's a lot of it. Unfortunately, there's so much that's not good, too. Your heart really goes out to the Duggar kids, who are being deprived of so much in terms of potential opportunities and are kept so isolated that they don't have any idea it's happening. And parents in this country have long held the right to remove their kids from the public-school system and all its elements and states' power to squelch that freedom of choice is limited. The Supreme Court established that back in the early 20th century when white Anglo-Saxon Protestants were trying to squelch Catholic education and thus damage Catholic and immigrant cultures and national influence with one blow. And then in the past 30 years, HSLDA and others have fought hard to keep the government from establishing any particular rights of children to receive schooling or rights of state governments to check up on homeschooling situations for health, educational standards or safety issues. They've successfully battled over and over in favor of upholding that old parents' right to make all the schooling choices. It's been a long long time since anybody's successfully implemented increased regulation for home schooling, and I wouldn't bet on anybody being successful for a long time to come, given how loud the whole "freedom of religion" crowd is being lately. Well, from the Duggs' point of view, that would be just turning your kids over to more potentially heathen influences! I'm pretty sure their school rule is -- If it sounds intelligent, thoughtful and mind-broadening, run from it as fast as you can. That pretty much leaves out all sensible homeschooling setups, online or otherwise.

Yeah, I would agree that their narcissism knows no bounds!

But then how would we know that she's a girl? And therefore inferior?

Thanks for all the information! .... Very interesting. (and that terrible useless Catholic Church -- we all know that, per the Dullards, it's merely a road to hell) I guess what I'm saying is-- there was a "we" in what you did. (and in at least some cases an additional "we" in country). As far as I can see, Jill's only possible "we" is the mime troupe. And while I guess SOS is not all mime troupe, I remember the looks on the locals' faces when they were herded into that compound watching that monstrosity, and I wonder how many would actually trust that organization. They were clearly dumbfounded by the insulting mime. And I'm sure they know that that's the group that brings round the fingernail painters. So I wonder how many would trust them to bring around any actual skilled professionals, in health care or otherwise. I think you're probably right on the money with your suggestion about the bait and switch. I think they are really all about conversion. And I'm increasingly skeptical that Jill will get any kind of certification. I doubt that she can get one in country, and the U.S. certification even for an entry-level CPM is far far off, given the list of requirements. More and more, I think that, if anything, they're just going to help SOS do the kind of bait and switch you mention while Jill does the usual Duggar pretense of working toward the certification goal but never ever getting there. It would take quite a while for anyone to meet the requirements while living in an unfamiliar place where they barely know the language, I think, let alone for Jill.

God moves in mysterious ways.

Argh. That's bad news. You did work under the auspices of an actual clinic or something, though, right? .... I guess I picture Jill wandering around in the company of the lame-ass mime troupe, clearly knowing far less about birthing than local folks with experience and no training, and therefore giving people no reason to trust her. But I suppose that's just wishful thinking....

I feel kind of hopeful, since I have a feeling that most folks in Central America are going to be less likely to trust a random, questionably trained U.S. "missionary" to care for them than a bunch of disgruntled, uneducated Arkansas super-fundies would be. In C.A., I expect people will actually be interested in getting good care rather than in rebelling against the ebil librul medical establishment, which I think would probably be Jill's main appeal to people who'd seek out her "care" in the U.S.

I suppose. But from stuff I read, I expect that that's intended to be training for locals, who have already spent years participating in the local midwifing activities in their communities. I wonder whether somebody from outside that tradition would be welcome or would even have the background needed to do the program. It's all so mysterious and, as usual, so lacking in detail that it makes me suspicious.

Well, according to this NARM document -- http://narm.org/entry-level-applicants/ -- it looks to me as if you can get the required training and experience without being on a specific state registry and then you could later present your earned credential to states you wanted to practice in and be registered by them then. The training and experience NARM lists is on a generalized, national model, I think, and just requires you to get preceptors who meet the national NARM standards. So being off the Arkansas list doesn't necessarily mean she wouldn't be pursuing the training. ... She could certainly start it now, without being on any official Arkansas list, as long as she found a trainer who met their standards, I think. No way she can do it in a month, though, so she's either planning to get all her training in Central America (do we know it's Guatemala?) or do some of her clinical observation and so on in Arkansas and then finish it in C.A. I was reading a little about Guatemala, and their big midwife tradition seems to be very much related to Mayan culture. Don't know how Jill would relate to folks closely involved in a strong cultural tradition that's not part of Protestantism. My Google perusal also suggests that it would also be pretty strange for a U.S. midwife to go to practice in Central America without having completed trainings and certifications here. No surprise, of course. But I really wonder about the details of what she has in mind. Or whether this is just the usual Duggar pie-in-the-sky, pretend-professional fantasy nonsense that they so often engage in.

Looks like you have to submit evidence of certain experiences, and it looks as if at least a few of hers would count. Don't see how most of her experience would count, though. And there's no way she could do all of this stuff that's required in a month. Maybe she has a mentor lined up in their mission location so she can complete the experiences she needs and prepare for the test? Here are the U.S. midwife association's requirements for being certified as an entry-level CPM -- http://narm.org/entry-level-applicants/

I doubt it. They don't sell off-price ice cream.

This may be one of those areas in which the Duggars are unique.

It's more than a feeling.

Well, seems to me they might have gone to the beach, taken a picture there that they planned to use on their website or in thank-you cards or something but in which they didn't look good, and then later Photoshopped in a better picture of themselves with the beach background. I can see somebody doing that and not thinking anything about it because it wouldn't be a lie, just a tweak to make the thing look better. But if you're going to do that, I guess you'd better do it absolutely perfectly, or people will figure you're up to something nefarious. I have a feeling I've read before that he didn't own the land, just the house. May be a hallucination on my part, though, since I don't remember where I read it.

Great article. The details about cleaning IBLP headquarters are something I don't remember hearing before and make ATI sound even more like the "Christian" version of Scientology. And then there's this: 'And IBLP used the Duggars’ fame to promote its teachings. The Duggars, said Leigh, were Gothard’s “model ATI family,” and were “held up as ideal in the IBLP world.” Though IBLP hasn’t rebounded to its glory days, many recent enrollments were loyal viewers who’d been inspired by the show, according to Leigh, who has discussed the matter with recent staffers at IBLP headquarters. As depicted by TLC, the Duggars were a loving, virtuous family—and their biggest fans wanted to know their secret. '"People weren’t joining ATI in the past five years because of Bill Gothard,” said John Cornish, spokesman for the website Recovering Grace, which gathers and publishes former ATI members’ accounts of abuse by Gothard. “They were joining because they had seen the Duggars on TV and wanted to live like them.”' As I've always thought, the show was absolutely about their cult. In the most underhanded possible way. Thanks for nothing, TLC.

Well, I suppose Jana's too busy right now helping out with four M'kids, and maybe Izzy as well at times. And maybe Jinger and Joy are just over it. After all, Joy just came back from a foreign land where people may have been smiling. And Jinger wore denim to the wedding. Hey, now, you wouldn't want her to get used to wearing the equivalent of shorts. Gotta train her to keep those knees well covered at all times.

C'mon. Is everybody forgetting the most important of the Ten Commandments -- "Thou shalt learn no useful skills"? Most disgustingly, one of the family selling points, uttered over and over again on the show by Joy and others, is that their Daddy is so speshul super-dupe-dupe-dupe wonderful at raising them because he's careful to make sure that they all learn many many skills, more so than any other children.

'The two embraced before the ceremony and "that's when I got the most emotional. I can't imagine what she's been through. I would be a disaster."' Don't bother trying to imagine it, Amy. Either you or your husband will be on the receiving end of a similar situation soon enough. Oh... and you're already a disaster. (Bad actress, too. You look phony in every damn photo, going back years. And this one with Anna? Despicable.)

She reminded me of Cloris Leachman in High Anxiety. Nevertheless, her dress sense is so off I wouldn't be surprised if she did look at herself in the mirror and think she might upstage the bride. lol

Not to mention MEChelle and her white dress. So gross. Having their squabbles, foibles, misunderstandings and moods become fodder for the whole world's snarking entertainment. To offer yourself up to become famous for being famous is one thing. But to hand over your kids to the maw of the entertainment industry and to train them up to be "celebrities" not people. Unforgivable. Some umbrella of protection, Jim Bob. Also: Shut up, Amy. Her role in this crap may annoy me more than anybody else's. I suppose because she's never had to suffer the pain of being a Duggar kid. Just rode to G-list celebrity on their coattails. And now she's trying to get more from it by stirring the pot. Yet, unlike the actual Duggar kids, she can walk away when she wants without having been crippled by world-class kid-cripplers JB and M. Shut up, Amy.

Yeah, that makes sense. Whatever it is, I guess the bottom line is that it looks kind of strange. Wonder whether they wanted to make it look special, instead -- maybe to use in their pr campaign for the ministry in some way. Quite often, attempting to make photos special ends up making them strange.

It's either Photoshopped or they're standing in front of a poster. Look down to where their feet would be and then try to figure out where the pictured beach would be at that location. Not only are the edges all wrong but the perspective makes no sense when you try to figure out the ground level..... Maybe they took a picture at the beach and thought they looked terrible, so they did a phony beach picture in which they looked better?