sistermagpie

Imo, yes! Unless the point is going to be some point of procedure that comes up during it, what would I need to know? If somebody had a problem with it they'd only be able to be convinced by the idea that it was them or Lottie or something like that, right? So I don't feel like I need people making the obvious objections to it at first. It doesn't seem like there's somebody being set up as the one who was bullied into it so will be trouble later or something. I probably would have liked the scene and if they ever put it out as a deleted scene maybe i'll like it--if there's something in it I think made a difference I'll definitely change my mind. But I didn't feel like I missed anything by having it happen offscreen.

Tai mentioning Sammy wouldn't have even taken much time, but I disagree strongly about the discussion of the card draw. I think it was much more effective just showing them doing it. We all understood it and I don't think there was meant to have been any big discussion or working out of the rules.

To me, that's the beauty of the ending, that these things are there to be imagined and it could go many ways. I think different things at different times, but I think there would definitely be hope for the relationships with both kids, complicated as it would be. And of course, by the end of the show it's also complicated by how they're no longer so much co-parenting as two different parents who have different relationships and histories with two different grown kids. I feel like the show even puts in some hints about that by putting in that death scene for Harvest. But a lot of other things would be coming into play too. I have a friend who was living in East Germany when the wall came down and knew true believers like Elizabeth--it was always something that made her even more interested in her character. (Though the loss was complicated and difficult for people who hated the system they were living under too.)

I must have filled it in myself--though I think I filled it in on some comment I read because I never remembered the actual moment. It is something they needed to address, though. They've got Shauna as a mother elsewhere and had a whole story about Sammy, so they ought to know they can't treat him that conveniently. Even if he's with Simone's family, which would obviously make sense, she'd have to talk to him. His mother's in the hospital and he doesn't know where Tai is. That's how I saw it. I didn't think they were fully after Shauna--people laughed at how slow the chase was because I think all of them, including Shauna, were sort of unclear about what they were doing. It was Callie who was taking it fully seriously, and they ripped off their masks as soon as they saw her, like the end of Lord of the Flies, a little. I assume since Tai has an assistant that can do things for her, she took care of it. The thing about this for me is that people keep just saying they'll kill him because of his disability so it's practically self-defense whatever he does when that's just never there in the show at all. They picked cards with everyone participating (except Ben, who wasn't there). Yes, they didn't want to lose Lottie because she was their priestess, but nobody decided that less useful people had to pick twice. They're not doing a whole lot of traveling where Ben's lack of a leg has set him apart. Lottie, the person they were trying to save in this ep, was currently injured and was far more helpless than Ben. It just seems like projecting the idea that Coach is justified in murdering everyone because they're obviously going to kill him because he's only got one leg onto the story because it's logical as a spectator in ways it isn't to the people in there. Even more so when it's even presented as more justified than the kids killing a person or eating a corpse. In fact, I realize it seems like even last season characters sometimes got described as being morally superior just for not being Shauna or Lottie. Even Laura Lee seemed to often get defined as demonstrating morality when she was demonstrating Christianity. I can enjoy critiques of even shows I really like if they seem valid. I think there really are things in the Adam storyline that sometimes undermined things. But some criticisms I just disagree with--just because it's negative doesn't mean it's right. I remember years ago somebody righteously explaning how Don Draper's Carousel pitch was really bad, actually, and offered an alternative that was laughably terrible! So yeah, I can disagree with a critique with disagreeing with critique in general. As to the pacing question, I don't identify with that one. It seems like some things people describe as filler or nothing happening were completely gripping to me, especially in the 90s storyline. But both, really. Same with not feeling like I'm not getting answers I'm supposed to be getting. So while I think procedural investigations aren't in the writers' wheelhouse, a lot of the other stuff they're doing is great. And I don't feel any preemptive anxiety about it going five seasons. I'm fine letting them doing their own plan and seeing what I think about it without cutting them off for their own good beforehand. The girls in the cabin had stayed behind to keep Travis from saving Natalie. They weren't refusing the hunt, they were making sure it continued.

It did remind me of Boardwalk Empire, which had even more violent a shootout with a kid in the middle.

Just watched a YouTube video from a psychologist who specializes in Narcissistic personalities. She explains how perfectly Succession nails narcissistic personalities and interactions and the ending was exactly right in her view. I especially agreed with her predictions about the kids, that Kendall would be crushed by this and never recover. He would probably try to start businesses for the rest of his life and none of them would be good enough and he'll probably get sick and die surprisingly young. He might never talk to his siblings again, particularly after Roman's comments about his kids. Loved her pointing out how when pressed Kendall the vulnerable narcissist starts tantrumming like a child. She said Logan would have been able to play Shiv in that moment, but Kendall can't. Roman would also suffer, but differently. This ending would be a win for him, but he'd still be terrible. He'd probably live a dissolute life with lots of sexual disfunction so not ever really be happy, but this ending would still be a win. Shiv is the most like Logan and she'll remain a player, using Tom to stay near power and probably she'll start sleeping with Lucas too for the same reason. Oh, and she's about to become the world's second worst mother, right after Caroline. Tom will be exactly what Lucas wanted, a pain sponge suck up, and Greg will also hang on because they like him around (and Tom needs him close). It did make sense to me that Shiv is in some ways the last Roy standing in terms of still looking to get power. But none of them is Logan (or Lucas) who actually built a company. One thing I didn't agree with her on is she saw Willa as really despising Connor and that seems way too strong to me.

But don't you see how this is creating more questions to solve the first one? Why have to make up the idea that the compound is not on Google--which doesn't explain why Lottie herself isn't traceable as the normal person running a business she is, and assume that Lottie is specifically hiding from people when there's no indication that she is, and say Misty could find Travis who was hiding but not Lottie--when we can just focus on one thing that made Misty not even be trying to find Lottie which would far easier to do or explain? It is out of character for Misty not to know that she was out of the institution, but that's acknowledged by Misty herself. If she knew Lottie was out she's still having to say "How could I have missed this?" only she's adding that she's been trying to find Lottie, who's living far more openly than Travis was, and failed. This way Misty *was* keeping tabs on Lottie. She was tripped up by thinking it was easy to keep tabs on her because she was in the same institution for years. The other way she's acting like it's far easier to find a guy using a different name and living off the grid than it is a woman using her own name and openly running a whole wellness center and honey business and not hiding from anyone.

I could swear Tai just says something about it, probably to Van when she gets to her place. I got the idea from somewhere. No point casting parents for it, but we know Tai has an assistant who knows she's away etc.

Yes, but the difference is that it would obviously be far easier to track her whereabouts if she knows she's out. Not knowing she was released just means Misty knew where she was, checked up on it periodically, and got bad information that said she was still there. That explains why she never went looking for her elsewhere. It's one glitch (or one cover up) that fooled a search that she thought would be easy so wasn't particularly on guard for being wrong. Once she's out we're talking about someone with her own wellness center and many people finding her to be there. They have a business where they sell honey. As you mentioned, she's using her own name. Misty would be far more diligent about tracking her once she's out than if she gets easy confirmation she's still in. And yet your alternative has Misty reduced to somebody who barely has basic Google skills. Her not knowing she left the institution solves so many problems you're creating by needing her to know that. It leaves the question of why she thought that, but that could be explained in several ways if they do explain it. Why not? Police have a terrible record of solving murders. It's not uncommon when you're reading a true crime story to wonder if the police are actually working with the killer. Misty's probably unlucky that she's dealing with police on TV who even when played for comedy almost always get their man.

How is that in any way more acceptable than her not knowing she was released? All the things you said about Lottie here apply even more so even Misty knows she's out and about and somehow can't find her now that she's become even more public? The hospital makes more sense because for all we know there's some reason the hospital keeps her on the books a la Angel Heart if you've ever seen that movie. That would just be a case of checking one place and getting the answer she expects.

Also, it's been very clearly established Roman can barely if ever have sex. He's Dr. No-Fuck.

Misty had a whole scene berating herself for missing that earlier, so no, that particular moment wasn't bad writing. Misty thought she knew where Lottie was and was wrong--and shocked. It's also not a contradiction for Lottie to be hearing "it" in the present day while saying she doesn't hear "it" anymore in that scene in the past. She's got her reasons for saying that there, and she's got a lot of time left for things to change.

No, I think Tom's had a liking and dependence on Greg emotionally. It's not just the document destruction. That was already public. Tom and Greg's relationship was fucked up, but they know what it is. Greg basically got exactly what everyone laughed at him for suggesting: "So I'd be his number 2?" Me too. And clearly Tom was okay with it. He seemed actually happy to put that sticker on his head, and not just in a sadistic "I'm going to make you pay" way. That was the scene Shiv ultimately didn't get with Tom.

Buy to be fair, the story DevF is talking about is also really popular. It's the antihero drama that the show's spoofing. It's especially popular on TV. Even Network TV--look at characters like House.

After Succession and Barry, this was quite a palate cleanser. People valuing relationships and working at them. The toast to Ed was everything. He would have been the best man.🥲 And what a great description from Fred about what he was to him.

It didn't have to be, though. Barry would have confessed all and saved him, but Gene chose to kill him and go to jail for both murders, one of which he actually did commit.

I hadn't thought of it that way but that's a great point. There was irony in Barry being about to finally own up to his past and turn himself in, only to get the "redemption" he dreamed of by being murdered, but not heroically. The movie was just getting it wrong, and it was hard to even see what exactly that would mean to John given that it seems his mother had been very straight with him in that hotel room. Sure, she wasn't giving him details, but she would have made it clear he wasn't a hero, so I wasn't sure if John was supposed to be fooled by the movie and see Barry as a hero with a tricky legacy.

Although isn't she still way richer than him? Isn't just always funny to me that that's never the point with her.

Yeah, but...so? That's security for Greg. He's never been all that ambitious. He just wants the thing that's slightly better than the alternative, which in this case he definitely got. Man, Colin following Roman like the ghost of Logan's disappointment was something.

I was surprised that after a lot of moments where I was riveted, that the scariest moment to me was when I thought the Greg/Tom ship (such as it was) had sunk. So it was like the closest thing to romance when he put that dot on his head. I'd been weirdly proud of him for using that translation app. We finally get the details on Ken's kids in the nastiest way possible. Stuck the landing.

Nope, she never told them.

Sure that story makes sense, but it's just projected onto him and has nothing to do with his whole arc during the season. The team are the ones keeping him alive and one of them even keeps him from killing himself. He has a whole arc that's about being depressed and hiding in fantasies of living life with Paul, who then tells him he's not there to help him hide. Then he decides to hide where the child told him to and hide like he wanted to. He's been the weakest the whole time, but there's no moment of him seeing himself that way and so thinking they're after him. Natalie even tells him she let Javi die in her place so there's even less reason to think this was about him being the weakest. He can fear and hate them without thinking he's letting himself get killed and eaten by them if he doesn't kill them. He's been "fuck them kids" practically before they left NJ. They didn't even include him in their draw the first time. But he failed to kill them, so now they might be ready to say "fuck him" too.

But to be fair, the girls hunting and killing each other for survival is one of the things whose logic has been explained, whether or not we accept it. Ben thinking he needs to kill them all for his own survival isn't in the text at all. In fact, it makes more sense as part of an overall suicide attempt on his part.

Yes! Especially because she doesn't really seem addicted to luxury, besides the Rolex Nat pointed out and the fact that she seems to change shift/cover up a few times a day--but those don't look designer either. (Someone suggested her liking to change clothes so often came from them being trapped in the clothes on their backs for a year now.) It seems more like what they were going for was her clinging to the idea she'd been delusional and wanting to help other people break free of their delusions, only for her own original beliefs to come back. But her compound's beliefs seem so scattered that it's hard to see what she's doing there besides generic new agey stuff. It would have worked better maybe if it was more recognizable as the anti-forest cult, as if she'd recreated it in a benign form, or just erased it and only later started to see darker interpretations. Or even maybe make her a psychiatrist since she originally seemed to believe western medicine cured her! To be fair, they chose cards without him, so his specific fears that he'll be killed because of his disability are more his own than the way he's been treated. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. To me it seems like since the past storyline leans into folklore type storytelling, he's just got to try to follow Javi's lead and be seemingly rejected by that shelter because he's not a child. And because he's rejected what his own flashbacks seem to be telling him, imo. Paul broke up with him because he didn't want to hide. He threw him out of his VHS flashback because he was using them to hide. That doesn't sound like a guy telling him to commit suicide or find someplace else to hide. It sounds like a guy telling him to do his part in the community, not just protect himself.

This, to me, is where the show is most interesting, but I agree the way the adult plotlines play out it really undermines it. In the 90s it makes sense and I like watching them genuinely get into it, but in the present it just often doesn't seem like they're being motivated by it. "It "*doesn't* seem present--I think that's the key thing that's missing. In the first season I think it did much more. Maybe the handling of the Adam storyline is most to blame for it, because how can you feel darkness at work when the police investigation is played for comedy--and not even particularly dark comedy? And even Lottie's compound didn't really seem connected. Yes, her taking everyone's wallets obviously made her seem like a charlatan, but there was no sense that she was unwittingly feeding the forest god with it. It was more like she really was just doing a ditzy cult and the darker aspects were just there because we expect that from cult leaders these days. At worst she was...a bit of a Karen. Re: Coach Ben, I can't really understand supporting him even in a meta way--like where you hate all the fictional characters so you like anybody who's going to take them out. The guy's mostly been characterized as driven by mild cowardice and inaction. He's the only adult in the group and while he certainly had reasons to not be able to take control early on, his choice at every turn has just been to turn away and hide and then act superior. It makes sense he'd follow Javi the child's lead now (just like he and Javi were the two people who didn't support Shauna during childbirth), but on a folktale level, it seems like he shouldn't be able to find shelter like the actual child did. Javi took a risk by trying to save Natalie and so died heroically. Ben just chose Nat to come with him to hide--more like Jackie pulling Shauna out of the plan--and accepted her telling him he was a good person.