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I think many Indian languages and Hindi at least, don't distinguish between v and w. In my family we say both and I slip back and forth myself. दीपावली- Deepavali, - it's usually transcribed with a v for some reason. The shorter form, diwali, is usually transcribed with a w. But as for the pronunciation of both- it can go either way, v or w.

Ugh, I was bored with Professor Juliette within 30 seconds of her introduction in the first episode. Stupid, moronic, shallow dumb understanding of courtly love or any kind of love. YUCK. She's the perfect wet dream for a narcissistic neurotic jackass such as Noah. Also this professor/student romance (implied with Audrey) really squigs me out. It's so cliched and it actually is officially disallowed when the prof is in a supervisory capacity to the grad student. Noah is so awful and unappealing at this point, it is ridiculous that all these women, including Audrey, are desperate to jump his bones. And of course it's Professor J, French High Priestess of unsanctioned love who provides the perfect venue for all this bloated love-talk. Couldn't they at least have given her minimal intelligence and education? Her expertise is as unconvincing as is the thought that Noah's novels (kind of embarrassing, going by the excerpts quoted on the show) have helped him change careers from a felonius unemployed schoolteacher to a university professor. Yes, that entire footage of the dinner party should have ended up on the cutting room floor. I too can't believe we're being made to sit through it twice. Even the Whitney scenes were preferable to this. That debate over rape and consent was so pathetic- surely grad students (some of whom are declared feminists) would have more interesting things to say about it than that exposition of The Culture of Rape 101. I wish there were one character left whom I like. Helen, maybe, and Vikram come close- but not all the time. And that's about it. I wish they'd sorted out (and added some nuance and layering) to the existing relationships instead of introducing a brand new idiot character and then make her one of the point of views. Come on! I also can't believe that the brilliant David Henry Hwang wrote this episode. M. Butterfly has its gender stereotypes but it is also a play on stereotypes. This episode is so embarrassingly bad. Maybe some big twist is coming and I will have to eat my words. I'll be happy to do that as long as I don't have to sit through Juliette's narration again. Hwang was only consulted on some of the others. Hard to believe he actually wrote the dreck and bilge that this last episode was. I don't know how long I can stick this out. I wish I hadn't started watching this stupid show (my excuse is it was playing on a very very long flight).

Wow, I totally agree the theories on this thread are great. And I don't get where The Telegraph is coming from. I ended up going back to Season One and now I'm binge-watching from the beginning. So many questions as I do that. I'll probably post up a storm soon. But for right now I just had a few thoughts about Season Three. -I did wonder if he killed that other patient at Wallander's, his big admirer, because he learned that the guy had raped his sister when she was 12 and then managed to have her killed in the most horrific brutal way. I think Paul genuinely believes he is protective of children (never mind the way he uses them to get closer to his targets, the position he puts them in by destroying their worlds and so on). So maybe that other inmate's appalling behavior towards a child is the reason Paul makes the guy pay. He totally suspends his version of Nietzschean philosophy when it come to children and becomes boring and moral like the rest of us. -I really loved that anonymous poem he read to the guy and then wrote out in that diary: "There was a man of double deed." It's wonderful and I'd never heard it before. And the show does end with "death, and death, and death indeed." -I feel terrible for poor Sally Ann. The police did terrible damage to her, just as Stella said (although Stella herself didn't do all that much to protect her). I would have liked some wrap of the Sally Ann story. I also wanted more on Spector's reaction to hearing what Sally Ann did with the van at the beach. And the miscarriage. Sally will probably be dragged through the court system and she'll lose custody. It's so sad- she loses everything, and unlike Spector, she probably will live for years with the pain. She might be his biggest victim--maybe another way of saying she is one of the biggest victims of that foster home, without having set a foot in that place.

Not sure whether the events below happened more than 5 minutes before the end atlantaloves, so you may have seen some of this already. Here's how I remember the wrap up- could have missed or misunderstood some of it. Avi shoots Dmitri in his car (the driver's probably been shot as well). Daryll plants packages of dope in the trunk. They leave the car doors open and walk away- it'll look like the men were killed for the drugs- as part of a general round up of the mob. I guess. Mickey and Bunchy go to Dmitri's den and open fire on the two unsuspecting henchmen who come out of the house. They keep firing, so presumably they get everyone in that house. I was confused about this next sequence. Ray & Lena handle another one of Dmitri's henchmen at the gallery. He's the guy who was at the boxing arena- in that scene he waited outside & escorted Dmitri to the car (not realizing Avi & Daryll waiting for Dmitri in the car). Now he walks up to the gallery where Ray is waiting & pulls a gun on him, but Lena sneaks up behind & puts her gun to his head. They walk him into the gallery where Ray bludgeons him to death with the baseball bat. Very grisly. He must have done something terrible to get such a hideous end. (I assume he died because no one called an ambulance.) Lena stages the gallery as though it had been robbed - opening the backs of the paintings and scattering the drugs on the floor. Ray calls Frank, who comes in to make it all official- Ray tells him he'll get the credit for the bust up. I hope he gets off Ray's back after this. Ray runs into Hector outside the gym & doesn't appear too charmed at Hector's thanks/explanations/apologies/promises. Hector asks if he and Ray are good, and Ray answers that neither of them will ever be good. Ray tells Hector he will contact Hector when he needs to call in the favor. Emphasizing that their earlier close relationship is dead. Abby comes out to meet Ray and tells him she knew things would turn out well. They go upstairs to the gym where a party celebrating Hector's win is in full swing. We get a 2-second obligatory shot of Conor. Abby gets out on the floor to dance. Ray watches as his family celebrates. Qn: I forgot what the guy who got bludgeoned did in earlier episodes- why did he deserve this brutal an end?

No Emmy win for Liev. That's too bad. And it's his third nomination I think. I hope he gets it one of these years.

Right? LOL. What happened to the small army that Dmitri always seemed to have in tow? I was a little shocked that Bunchy and Mickey kept firing. I suppose Mickey showed signs of bloodlust in Mexico. But he wasn't as emotionally invested here.

So Dmitri shows up at the boxing match with just Ray by his side? Why wouldn't he want more protection? And he had just the driver waiting outside? After all the build up and the hoopla, it was like taking candy from a baby. Just lost a big post. But I wanted to say I totally agree with you, Tvaddict. I was very happy when the episode ended. This finale was anticlimactic. Little energy and excitement, and none of the clever fast-paced strategizing of the kind we saw in the finales for Seasons one through three. -I hope we are done with the mob. The Armenians followed by the Russians is enough. I want disorganized crime for a change. At least you get some range and variety of crime.

ohhhhhhh that's who he was. Thanks, electricboogaloo. How could I forget! He was so great in *Revenge.* About Hector: I take back all the mean things I said about him.

HI Puddy, it's just because I don't really want to be thinking politics for this show. And if politics has to be invoked, then I'd want to see not just one position but several. I also would not be thrilled if he was from any other secret service. I love his character and his abilities and his mom and every single thing about him except this. NO biggie, however- it hasn't stopped me from watching or enjoying the show.

Great episode and great season opener. Thanks for all the context and background info. So Liev Shreiber directed? I did think the style had switched a bit, but don't know if it's the story and narrative, or cinematography. Now I'm thinking it might be the direction. Was amusing to see Ray get emotional and sentimental. I'm not sure how long that will last. Hope not too long. I looked up Stage zero cancer. Had never heard of it before. I feel like the writers got away with something here....not unfairly, but just disturbingly. Basically this could mean that the character can be killed off whenever Paula Malcolmson is done with the show. And that's a bummer- I like her, but more than that, I like the plots that grow around her, and I think the relationship betweenRay-Abby (I almost typed Trixie from Deadwood) so rich in terms of narrative complications. It's never static, but it always feels organically developed. -I truly love the show. I think it's plotted brilliantly. Even when a particular storyline isn't fascinating to me (for example, the stories with the kids), I'm always drawn in because I want to find out its impact on Ray. I always filter every event through that question: how will this impact Ray. I don't remember feeling this intrigued by a TV protagonist for a long long time. -And yaaaaay Lena is back. I love her. I can't think of a character like her on any other show. Avi is great too though I wish he wasn't from the Mossad. Together with Ray they make such a satisfying team. They solve impossible problems so perfectly and unpredictably. I love it when they slip into action. It's like a beautifully engineered machine smoothly purring its way to perfection. Their solutions and strategies are sheer poetry. -This show is so good at delivering shocks. I did not see Hector's disclosure about his sister coming. At all. So even as part of me is thinking, wow, I wish they hadn't gone there, the rest of me is thoroughly intrigued with how the story will develop- and, of course, the burning question for me, namely how it will ultimately impact Ray, especially given his own relationship with his sister. =Poor sweet Ray always in pain, always fighting through it, never needing an audience. And never recruiting the people around him into listeners. I love his character- or actually not his character so much as his characterization. -I'm a bit surprised and irritated with myself for still being charmed by Mickey, even though he is such bad news for everyone around him- he'll always find a way to drive everyone else into misery, beaming with great good will all the while, and leaving unbelievable collateral damage on every road he travels. How can anyone be so sunny and so happy when they do so much damage with every breath they take? I think Jon Voight plays him to perfection. I always disliked JV before this as an actor- well, actually for his politics more than his acting. But I see now what makes him such a standout actor. How he can stand around looking so mildly surprised after starting up major fires everywhere. - So Detective Muncie is back and she gets to partly repeat one of my favorite lines in the show. Re Mickey in Season , when she grumbled "That gold-chain wearing, saggy-toothed ......" LOL especially because she delivered it after his heavy flirting with her, compliments laid on with a trowel. Poor woman- she's thoroughly immune to him, but then he is equally immune to her sledgehammer and unsubtle response to his irrepressible flirting. They are such opposites as characters- and well-matched as adversaries. Her methods are too direct to have any impact on Mickey. Actually hardly anyone has any impact at all on our blithely oblivious Mickey. But I just find it hilarious that even she, with her imperviousness to sweet-talk, will never put Mickey off his stride. His charm offensive is inexorable, like a machine too, one that will never ever be averted from its path. -Oh, and I now have one terrible misgiving. I think Hector will probably end up killing that poor baby-faced cop- I think Hector is assuming Ray killed the cop. I don't want that poor cop to suffer any more. He seemed like a sweet guy. Ray obviously didn't want to destroy his hard-earned sobriety, but he did that for Hector. I just hope he doesn't do even worse for the poor cop. Won't the cop lose his job with this second DUI? Will 100 000 be enough compensation for all the lost earnings? Hector is going to be such bad news for Ray. Great point upthread that it was Romero who sicked Hector on Ray, with the best of intentions of course. -I can't stand cheating, but Hector's cheating is so utterly appalling it actually takes some of the sting away from Ray's.

I'm responding a couple of years after you posted, but wanted to say I absolutely and completely agree. I think she is what he needs; in fact, he's shaped her into being the kind of person he needed. I'm not sure he is what she needs, but love goes a long way to correct any imbalances. Thank you so much for pointing this out, electric boogaloo. The athletic comparison is especially apt. I actually wondered if she was picked specifically for balance- to preempt any potential criticism of the show going overboard for very skinny women. Katie Holmes is a prime example IMO.

Kel, I'm here to eat humble pie and say I was wrong and you are right.Her gun is pointed at Bullock. But now none of her actions make sense to me P- waking up Sol,etc. this question also just came up on the S2e2 thread. It does leave a few qns in the air imo. On another note, I apologize to all for the repetition in my post. I wrote that post twice thinking the first version was lost when it seemed to have blipped off my screen. I guess it didn't. Then the two versions blended. And it's too late to go back and edit. Sorry folks.

Ho, really want to get into all those things you opened up, purist, but I thought I'd start with these questions. Sorry though, coz it'll be long as per ususal. That speculation is really interesting- that she fears relapse without Soohia in her life. I guess that would mean she doesn't believe bodice-ripping passion with Bullock is enough in itself. Also, it's sad if she's using Sophia as a crutch...it should be about what's best for Sophia. I thought the latter worry dominated. I will need to watch again and can't for another week or so, dang. I don't remember a direct mention of it, but I think that fear of slipping back into her first addiction is quite likely still a shaping thing in her life. And on a related note, I found a lot of her statements confusing. Why would she have to give up Sophia if she ran off with Seth anyway? As best I remember, it's Ms. Isringhausen who planted the seed in Alma's mind. Either that, or Alma herself decided that that's what he meant. He said nothing at all indicating he'd want to abandon Sophia IIR. So all Alma's worry about having to leave Sophia seems to be based on a strange hypothesis. The only sense I could make of it was that she didn't really want to leave Deadwood and she was unconsciously using Sophia as an excuse. I can't imagine Seth demanding that she leave Sophia behind. Of the band of men that rode out, it was Seth who actually rescued Sophia. And leaving aside the questionn of what he said and what she heard, is it logical to think that Sophia can't go with them? Neither of them seems all that cincerned with respectability (to their credit imo) so it's not that Sophia would be tainted by association. I give up. On the question of Trixie...there's a recent discussion of this very issue on the Trixie thread. Just in case you are avoiding the character threads at this point (for fear of spoilers), let me just say I posted a response to that qn there and now recently realize I was wrong. I thought Trixie had planned to shoot Al if there were any chance of him shooting Sol. But other posters were right: her gun is pointed at Bullock. So again this makes no sense to me. If she's there as backup for Al, then why did she wake up Sol who is most unlikely to back Al and be an ally to her, and instead much more likely to shoot Al if he's threatening Seth. Poor Sol is highly woozy headed at this point, and Trixie obviously cares for him, so why would she drag him over there in this sub-par state to support his buddy? Makes no sense. Maybe she's seeing herself as a peace warrior. She'll shoot Seth if he looks like he's about to start shit and Sol will shoot Al if *he* looks ready to start shit and that way peace might prevail. Someone from the show needs to be right here in this forum answering these questions imo.

Haleth, welcome! Looking forward to getting your take on the show. I haven't been here too long myself, and I am very glad to find have company watching the show! That's such a great description of Ian McShane. So you remember him as a villain...that's so interesting. I saw him in a ton of things years ago but remember only [itals] Lovejoy [\itals] where I think he played a loveable rogue...I liked him then, but the mysteries were thin and predictable if I remember. He has so much more to work with here, of course. He's great, but I like him most when he's fully part of the ensemble. Luckily the rest of the cast is very strong...no one actor ends up stealing scenes, at least for me. If anyone could, though, it would be McShane so I'm glad this show is so much more than a vehicle for him or anyone else. I think you nailed what makes him so amazing. About Alma and Seth..from my search for forums on the show a few weeks ago (which yielded few results btw), I gathered there was division among viewers on the Alma v. Martha question. Some review mentioned it being a focus in the twop forums among others, and not to everyone's delight. On the few surviving forums that I found, people seemed very happy with the Alma-Seth pairing, and quite miffed with Martha, so I figured I was in the unpopular opinion camp. Not sure how representative these sites I flipped through were, however...since so many forums seem to have vanished, eg twop's. I find both fascinating as characters. I will say I feel that about almost every character now, watching the episodes a second time, but their choices are especially interesting to discuss imo. Sorry in advance for typos...I can't seem to edit on my ipad.

Thanks, purist! KISA complex= Knight in Shining Armor complex. I think Seth has a bad case of it. I love that quote from Jane. It's one of her very best! But I'd forgotten when she said it, so thank you for clearing that up. It did feel like parting words then...esp because I think the historical Jane didn't spend long stints of time in Deadwood. But I'm glad Milch took a licence on that one. And it was so good to seeing her on her horse- and entering the season on just the right note, lol