Oracle42

Is the pacing CvE or FV? And which one of them is responsible for the incredible tediousness?

It's also bizarrely unnecessary in this case because in the original story he was, at most, an accessory after the fact. What was the point in making the crime worse?

Kiki sucks. But she still wasn't this vengeful and nasty when her mother was sleeping with her boyfriend while pretending to be dead. Ava is currently displaying less maturity than a woman who uses Kiki as her professional name.

I actually don't think this is a lack of effort from either of them. I think they both did the best they could with some particularly bad staging and choreography. Also? this physical attraction thing should've happened months ago. The pacing on this story is so, so bad.

I can't believe that Avery and Leo are both still here when neither of them should exist

Scott

The difference between Operation Alcoholic and what Ava did (and what Carly did to AJ in the 90s) was age and experience. What kind of intelligent woman in her 40s/50s is pulling the same crap as her 19 year old idiot daughter? I absolutely agree that there should have been long-term consequences for Keeks and the Captain-or any at all. And I agree that Kiki doesn't get to judge her mother for that* given what she's done. But it doesn't make Ava less responsible or less reprehensible. *Using Kiki as a honeypot to reel in Morgan over that mob territory crap? Yes Screwing Kiki's boyfriend while allowing Kiki to mourn her "death"? Also yes. Ava is not a good parent.

No. Morgan didn't have a history of trying to jack cars or steal things from people. That wasn't about entitlement, that was directly related to the fact that Ava stole his bipolar medication and swapped it out for sugar pills. I think Monica should be allowed to spit at Carly when they pass on the street, and spray her with bear mace whenever she tries to push her way into Monica's house. By the same token I think Carly should be allowed to make Ava miserable for the rest of her life. Ava doesn't get to use "didn't mean bodily harm" as an excuse. She switched his meds for placebos because she was hoping that he would do something bad enough for KiKi to leave him. She's not responsible for the bomb, but she could reasonably assume that he was going to hurt himself or someone else, she was counting on it. She doesn't get any kind of pass because the damage was worse than she anticipated when she set out to do harm.

Or they get a 3 day funeral - or they die without a body and get an annual memorial

If they didn't have a proven track record of (1) terrible writing for women (2) being terrible at creating/establishing/integrating new characters (3) being terrible at casting - I'd hope that this was an opportunity to do something about filling the void where the 20-something crowd should be. I don't think Kiki would be much of a loss but I can't see any good in replacing her with WENEVERCARED Jr.

True - but it's just Joss. It's not like Michael asked her to respect someone's privacy.

I hope not. Dante was really the only thing NuLu and Lulu had in common

Could've been worse - Kristina almost had a sister/niece

They won't bring it up again until Redemption Attempt 6 when they discover that Franco has DID. Probably there will be a parrot involved.

His current parentage would've been entirely sufficient. RC/FV decided to tie RoHo to Franco; it's not the fans responsibility to "get over" that shit. It makes no sense to ask people to care enough about the show to watch it on a daily basis, while simultaneously insisting that they disregard the fact that Franco is now one of the main characters. FV apparently had one 'kill a crappy character and bring back the actor as another character' card. I will never understand why he used it on Silas instead of Franco. I really think the opportunity to claim brainwashing or brain damage or implanted memories is gone. If they were going to do that, they should have done it with the tumor story.

They have done those stories and the long-standing characters were wildly out of character. There's Carly/Franco, Patrick/Sabrina, Patrick/Sam, Nik is a Murderer, Liz/Franco, Sam doesn't give a s*** that Jason is back from the dead until weeks later - twice, Dante cheating, Dante cheating with his wife's cousin, Luke/Bobbi weren't poor, Luke had Not!DID this whole time, everything about Maxie/Baby Georgie, Maxie is too dumb/naive to see through Eli, Maxie is unemployed & unambitious, Carly being fooled by Nelle, Jax allowing his daughter to live with Sonny full-time, etc. Not a story, but worth mentioning - the idea that Jason doesn't care about his kids and has zero feels about losing 5 years with his family. I think they don't do stories for long-standing characters because they still haven't bothered to get more than a surface-level (if that!) understanding of any of these characters or their history - and they got tired of being called out for it. And instead of learning character history we get a story about Nina and her coma baby, Oscar's brain cancer, Margaux's daddy, LWB/FS existing and Franco not being dead Kevin/Ryan, which was at least potentially interesting, makes a bi-monthly appearance, and is about to be swallowed by Spencer. And although it doesn't sound like it, I don't actually have a problem with new characters on soaps. I think soaps need new characters, but FV and his writers have been incredibly bad at casting and creating them.

I do, and my viewing is both infrequent and sporadic. So, if I remember it the people who write this show should definitely remember it. I do remember thinking it was a lot of hand-wringing for an accessory charge

Ugh, I totally forgot that! He put on a leather jacket and kidnapped Danny

They were gearing up to do the same dumb story with McBain and his sister before McBain got yanked

No, the DVD Party was when he first arrived. I think the tumor was several months later, after Carly/Franco tanked.

The "But I Had a Brain Tumor!" Excuse was after the "Who Me?!" DVD Party. Of course, the writers never addressed the fact that the supposedly exculpatory DVDs (redemption #1) were created and presented while Franco was under the influence of the evil, exculpatory brain tumor. According to redemption #2, the brain tumor was actually responsible for Sam's rape, Michael's rape, several decades of serial killing and his incredibly shitty "art" - making the DVDs, at best, questionable. I don't even know what the man in a cage and the child molester story was supposed to excuse.

And his petulance and frustration with people's unwillingness to just "get past it/get over it" makes me wish someone would bury him alive, develop amnesia and move away from PC forever

It's funny, I'm sure that FV/RC decided on Franco because they thought they could play Franco as an alternate version of Todd. Instead, they've had to spend most of their time with this character trying to pretend that he's something else entirely.

Same reason she did the same thing with Patrick and Jakeson. FV and the HW. FV hasn't had any pairings that were higher profile or more popular than the pairings that were created by the last regime. His recasts haven't worked, his OLTL actors were taken away and their new incarnations were so bad that ME was killed off and Franco is on his third/fourth? redemption story and hanging on primarily because of BH's fans. Maybe FV just wanted a win. I think he and his HW du jour were the ones who were overruled.

Drew already has that, he's got Curtis. That's about giving Franco someone to talk to who isn't paid to do it