TVFan17

I was just saying in the episode thread for RHoNYC that I find I have a hard time picking one Housewife (in any city) to like, and sticking with her through every episode, every conflict, every outrageous situation, etc. With each lady (on any of the Housewives shows) I go back and forth between liking her and disliking her, and then liking her and disliking her again. I used to like Tamra, but that has changed. I used to like Heather much more, but that is changing (especially after this most recent episode, when I wanted her to just spit it out that Tamra blabbed everything, instead of making the whole thing about herself supposedly being attacked by Shannon). I probably shouldn't like Shannon at all because she seems to be out of touch with reality and in denial about everything, not to mention the fact that she is overly critical and nitpicky, but for some reason I think she might be a decent person deep down (a sad person, but still decent) and I want her to take the blinders off and start a new life. I haven't made up my mind about Lizzie yet -- right now she is not bad, but I have a feeling that will change very soon. I may have even liked Vicki once, many years ago, but she is now in that Sonja Morgan/Ramona Singer "walking parody" category that is hard to root for. I would love to see which ladies actually spend time with each other and actually have genuine friendships when the cameras are not rolling, and which ones truly don't get along off-camera. I just feel like I can't believe much of what I see from the situations that air onscreen because they are so set-up and instigated.

As with all of the casts of all of the Real Housewives shows in any city, I find myself unable to pick one person I really like and stick with that person all the way through the series, through every conflict. I constantly go back and forth on the matter. During one season -- or, hell, even one episode -- I might see a conflict break out and think, "Okay, [fill in the blank with the name of any random Housewife] is making sense right now. I think I like her best. She has her head on straight." And in the blink of an eye I find myself saying about that same Housewife, "She is a mess. This situation is all her fault and I can't stand her." Sometimes I like Heather, Other times I think she is too in-your-face. Sometimes I like Carole. Sometimes she bugs me. I was liking Kristen, and now she is bothering me. I used to like Sonja, but now I think she is a walking parody. Right now I like Luann more than the rest of them, but that will inevitably change before the season is over. Because so many of these scenarios (good and bad) are orchestrated or simply encouraged by the people behind the scenes, I would really love to see which ladies are true, genuine friends or enemies when the cameras are not rolling, and I'd love to hear what their real, off-camera conversations are like when they don't have anyone kind of "guiding" them along in the background.

Yes, yes, yes! I have always disliked Becca -- I just hate that voice, that scowl and that perpetual emo demeanor. So she can definitely go over the cliff. And I am so sick of Karen being made out to be this angelic goddess who is gracing Hank with her mere presence, but shaking her finger at him and stomping off in a huff when she is reminded once again that he is not perfect. It's old news already. He's got his flaws, but she needs to give it a rest. She even asked him at one point, "Don't you ever get tired" or some such thing, implying that they should move on and find new people. They have both tried to find new people in the past, and yet they couldn't stay away from each other long enough to really ever find someone good enough and worthy enough to stick with. They are constantly in each other's lives, even when they don't need to be. I don't care about Hank and Karen as a couple! They have never been apart, with anyone decent and normal, for a long enough time for me to care about them getting back together. The writers of this show obviously think I care, but they're wrong. Yes, yes, yes to all of this too! Hank and Karen are constantly intertwined and it is not normal -- especially in this day and age, when many former couples who share children have moved on to new relationships, but still manage to not be involved in everything their exes are doing in their personal lives. I agree that this looks like it is going to end up being the story that Hank wrote for a TV series, as advised by Rath.

Of course. I understand that. Many series do it that way. I didn't think that True Blood was still filming now. What I'm wondering is if True Blood has been known to shoot one single scene or any scenes more than a full year in advance, not just a few months ago. Some shows, like Breaking Bad or Mad Men, have shot their seasons way, way in advance and some of the scenes or episodes didn't air until almost a full year later. Again, the snippet of the Pam-Sookie scene that I saw flash by last night (in the montage of what's coming up this season) looked just like the Pam-Sookie snippet I saw flash by during a couple of last season's previews (the season that began in 2013), for which I was waiting...but I don't think it ever appeared in one of last season's episodes. So I am thinking that maybe that particular Pam-Sookie scene (and, perhaps others as well) was shot with the intention of possibly using it in last year's season, and was then held back for this year's season.

I thought I noticed something interesting, but I could have been mistaken. When the previews for the rest of the season were rapidly flashing by, there was a very quick snippet of Pam talking to Sookie -- I think about Eric. Pam seems to be sitting kind of above Sookie, and Sookie is in a position to look up at Pam. I noticed that snippet -- or one exactly like it, with the ladies in the same positions -- in one of the previews for last season, and I had been waiting for it to show up in an episode. To my knowledge it never did, unless I just got so bored and fast-forwarded through it! If I am not incorrect or simply going crazy, and the snippet in tonight's previews is the same one (that apparently didn't show up) that I saw last year, then I am guessing some of the scenes we will see in this final season were already shot way in advance. Has that happened with this series before? I know that other series have shot certain episodes or scenes way in advance and then those episodes didn't air for another year or so, but I didn't know if True Blood did the same thing. Why do I get the feeling that they are going to keep people hanging about Eric's fate for most of the season, just to keep viewers tuned in? In any event, I think that because I was expecting so little of this episode, it was better than I thought it would be. I have not liked the last couple of seasons at all, and I am only hanging in there at this rate to see it through to the bitter end. But I really think this show should have ended a while ago (as was the case with Dexter, also). Honestly, I don't care who dies -- if anyone -- at this point because the series is ending. Sure, I would like to see Eric survive and reunite with Pam, but if he dies as this series dies, it's fine. If he had died and there were still 4 more seasons to go, then I'd have a problem with it! At this rate, it's the end of the line for everyone, so it doesn't matter to me. I could not care less about Bill and Sookie. I never cared about them in the beginning of the series, and I sure don't care about them being together now.

I disagree.

From the first moment Shannon and David were introduced to us, I have felt that he was completely detached, disconnected, disinterested, disengaged, all of that. I think that, mentally -- and maybe physically, too -- David checked out of that marriage long before the cameras began rolling. He seemed to barely be tolerating any of it. The first time I really looked at his face or demeanor I thought, "Oh, he must be cheating. He is not even remotely interested in his wife." You can tell the difference between the way the other husbands interact with their wives and the way David interacts with Shannon. He doesn't appear to even want to be friendly to his wife. And yet...he sure lit up (and actually smiled!) when an attractive woman was standing next to him at Terry and Heather's western-themed party! Shannon seems like she could be a high maintenance handful -- and I'm sure there is a lot that goes on behind the scenes that we don't see -- but I think she is a decent person, deep down, and deserves a better guy than David. He just seems...sleazy. I tend to think that Shannon probably knew her marriage was careening downhill, and maybe in a desperate attempt to somehow "save" it she convinced David to appear on the show with her. He probably dreaded it, but felt pressured to go along with it. I don't even know what to say about Tamra. I used to like her -- several seasons ago -- but she is getting tiresome because it seems like she needs drama to thrive. I realize a lot of that is probably instigated by the people behind the scenes of the show, but still... She is not doing herself any favors with the way she is acting.

Right. Because no one ever gets involved with rich, well-connected, middle-aged men (in the entertainment industry) who club hop, use silly phrases and drink / smoke weed.

Yes. A good catch, crazy as that may sound! I doubt that anyone is perfect and without flaws, but that doesn't mean that they can't be a good catch and have a lot going for themselves. If 90% of the celebrities in "Hollywood" (or, hell, non-Hollywood people too) were labeled "not good catches" because of their impaired emotional maturity, goofy terminology and extracurricular activities, I wonder if anyone would ever date at all! Andy is not the only one who uses the phrases "down with the swirl" and "Bravo-lebrity." I have heard lots of other people using them too. I have no idea whether anyone else uses "Mexi-Jew." In addition to his many flaws, Andy is also rich, smart, well-connected, fairly powerful in the TV world at this point, and a relatively nice-looking guy with a happy, chipper demeanor. I don't care if he goes club-hopping. It doesn't affect me. He parades the dog around -- which is silly, yes, but I'm glad he loves his dog! I'd rather that he love the dog than not love the dog. As I mentioned in my above posts -- he also constantly finds ways to let everyone know that he is a rampant weed smoker. It's not my personal thing (smoking), but I don't care if anyone else does it -- I mean, literally, I don't care. So I always find it boring when he gets on his weed soapbox to, once again, find some way to let us know that he smokes. Yawn. We also know that he likes his alcohol. Again, not my thing, but it doesn't affect me if he does it. I just wonder why he always feels the need to kind of slide in comments about his drinking and smoking, because it does seem a bit high school-ish. All in all, compared to some other people out there in the world, I think Andy could be considered a good catch and could certainly find a man to seriously get involved with. So I am guessing he either just doesn't want a serious relationship, or he is meeting people who are opportunists / idiots / losers, etc.

Absolutely! I thought about that, and how Carrie would have regaled her friends with endless tales of how Aidan wore her down and won her back, against her better judgment, only for her to discover that he was keeping "the other woman" in his life, for no apparent logical reason! And her friends all would have told her to dump him, and that she shouldn't put up with it because it's not like he and the other woman had to be in each other's lives! Carrie and Big didn't have any kids together. They didn't own any property or run a business together. They had no legal ties at that point, so there was no reason for her to keep Big around if she truly wanted to make a go of things with Aidan. I was glad whenever the girls would occasionally put Carrie in her place and tell her she was being ridiculous (or wrong!), but it didn't happen nearly as often as it should have because she was ridiculous much of the time!

If I thought I knew what I was talking about, or had any relevant well to tap, I just might! Luckily, I've never cheated on anyone. Someone should certainly write it, though -- maybe it has been written, but under some other title? In any case, Carrie was ridiculous for not wanting to disentangle herself from the person at the center of her first break-up with Aidan, when trying to get Aidan back for Round 2! She was just clueless.

I agree with you and 27bored! The whole second go-round with Carrie and Aidan annoyed me -- and I liked Aidan as a character and thought he was a good guy -- because it began when Carrie just decided that she wanted Aidan back like she would decide what kind of sandwich she wanted to eat that day. She was the one who cheated on him in Round 1, and hurt him terribly, and he walked away from her because he said he knew he wouldn't be able to get past it (I'm paraphrasing, but that was the gist of it). And yet, she somehow felt she was given license to insinuate herself into his life and get him back because she happened to see him at the bar. Then -- after Carrie whined and pleaded and annoyed Aidan into taking her back -- she had the nerve to tell him that Big was part of her life, and she couldn't stop communicating with him?????? Oh, my blood boils when I think of that scene. The bitch told Aidan how she thought about him holding her, how there was still something between them, nagged him to take her back when she decided she wanted him again...and then couldn't agree to kick Big out of her life? What kind of deranged lunatic was she? Rule #1 in the imaginary Guidebook to Winning Back an Ex on Whom You Cheated should be to cease all contact and communication with the person you cheated on your ex with! That whole Aidan, Part 2 plotline is also one of the reasons I cringed in horror when Carrie was blathering away at Berger in the Hamptons about how her relationship with Aidan ended after they had sufficiently hurt each other enough (or something to that effect). I wanted to hurl something at my TV when Carrie said that -- "sufficiently hurt each other..."?????? In what way did Aidan hurt you, Carrie? Was it when he dared to reject you on the steps of his apartment after you tried to worm your way inside? Or was it when he dared to spend time with the female bartender because he still -- quite understandably -- didn't trust your shady connection to Big? I was not a fan of Berger for the most part, but he should have run far, far away after hearing Carrie babble about how she and Aidan "hurt each other." The funny thing is -- and I said this over on TWoP -- I still think that MPK and the writers always wanted us to side with Carrie and feel like she was usually right -- just a lovable, witty fashionista who made a few minor mistakes in her choice of men, and the guys on the show were the ones who were always at fault. What actually ended up happening was that Carrie came off looking like a clingy, self-absorbed, needy, insecure, sometimes delusional nitwit for much of the series. I think that all of the men on the show did some jerky things at times, or handled things badly at times, but there were many other occasions when I thought that Big, Aidan, Berger and even Aleks should have run screaming into the night, never to return.

ExplainItAgain -- I didn't jump in on a WWHL discussion until I made the switch from TWoP to this forum, so I missed your comments on Wacha. What is the general consensus? Is the dog is getting too much airtime? Not enough airtime? I like Andy's dog, and sometimes I like seeing certain guests interacting with the dog, but then there are other times when it seems like Andy is the equivalent of a stage mom trotting out her little pageant princess to look cute in front of the camera. Andy appears to have a lot of famous friends -- SJP, Anderson Cooper, Ricki Lake, Kelly Ripa and Mark Consuelos, Lance Bass, Uma Thurman, Liam Neeson, etc. Surely he must meet some great, interesting men while running around in those circles. Andy is a good catch, so there can't be a shortage of men hitting on him. If he is dating anyone seriously he is keeping it quiet and not shouting it from the rooftops like he does with his reefer madness and alcohol consumption! If he is not finding any quality people to date it might be because he wants to stay unattached, or maybe he keeps attracting up and coming actors/models/singers who want to use him to get into the public eye (and a show on Bravo)?

I wish there were going to be a very dark ending for Hank, just to shake things up on this show and not be what is expected! I don't think that will happen, though. I really think that what happened at the end of tonight's episode is not going to lead to anything other than the expected marriage and happy ending. It is probably just a calculated scare thrown in to make the viewers worry that our lead couple won't triumph in the end. It's there to advance the plot. I would be shocked if the writers went dark with it at all.

I agree, ganesh -- It is getting tiresome, mainly because there don't seem to be any surprises in this show. Despite the silly plot development with Karen this week, it seems clear how this series is going to end (I am guessing she and Hank will end up together/married, which is shocking, I know...). There is no reason to think that any jaw-dropping developments will be thrown our way before the series ends. And yet, I feel I need to see it through to its final moments because I have hung in there this long. I actually wish that we could find out that Hank has been dead or dying for the duration of the series, and that this has all been part of some comatose dream, or his "life flashing before his eyes" before leaving the Earth. Normally that kind of ending would be ridiculous in today's TV world, but anything to shake up the final episodes of this series at this point would be good for me!

I like Andy Cohen -- I think he has a natural boyish glee and charm about him. He seems to just be a naturally happy, upbeat person, but he is also very much "in on the joke," and has a sense of humor about himself and his various shows. I also love that he can literally have A-List celebrities from all facets of pop culture on the show, along with Real Housewives and strippers behind the bar. Sometimes I wonder why Andy feels the need to constantly remind everyone how much he loves his weed, though. Lol. I mean, I drink coffee every day but I'm not constantly finding ways to work coffee into the conversation because...who cares? I feel like Andy is always trying to let us know that he smokes, which is cool for him -- but I just don't care! Lol. I'd rather hear about who he is dating than what he smokes. The other issue I have is that I feel that Andy needs to pace things a bit better and read each situation separately, on a case-by-case basis. Some guests turn out to be duds, or just not very talkative and open. When Andy gets one of those, that should be the time when he breaks out the games and starts moving things along at warp speed. However, there are times -- every now and then -- when Andy gets a guest who seems more than willing to talk and reveal things/share stories/details, and instead of keeping quiet and letting them continue, Andy will shift gears and launch into one of those (sometimes silly) games! I think that if he is lucky enough to get a guest who is willing to be open, he should roll with it and skip the games. The hyper/manic speed with which Andy moves things along can be good or bad, depending on the circumstances.

I get a sleazy vibe from David, for some reason -- he bothered me from the first moment I saw him on this show. It's the same kind of vibe I get from Brooks and that I have always gotten from Mario (Ramona's husband, over on RHoNYC), except that I think that Brooks and Mario are somehow better talkers or more charming in some way, so they can get away with it. David seems to be lacking any semblance of a personality, and when he does say something it's inconsiderate or rude. Not that I think Shannon is easy as pie to live with. She seems like a handful -- high maintenance, shrill when she wants to be, critical, all of those things. Still, I think she could do better than David. Tamra has always struck me as more of a street-smart person than a book-smart person, but I never realized that she had such a limited vocabulary -- to the point where she makes Heather out to be the bad guy because Heather wants to speak and converse in an intelligent way. My sense of Tamra's issue with Heather is that when Heather corrects her or uses words she doesn't know, it reminds Tamra (maybe subconsciously) of Simon. Simon used to correct her, control her, tell her what she said/did/wore was wrong, etc. I think that Heather's intelligence is threatening to her because it taps into the way Simon made her feel about herself at times.

Hi, all! I couldn't get here to comment on some of the previous posts about Carrie's antics because I was switching to a new computer and getting that set up. In the past (on TWoP) I have mentioned some of the things that Carrie did that drove me up the wall. In fact, when I ponder them -- along with all of the things you guys mentioned above -- I have to laugh. I wonder how it is that this is one of my favorite TV shows... when the main character bothered me to no end. When I realize that Carrie annoyed me throughout most of the series and in the 2 movies, and yet I still think she was somehow likeable in the 'big picture' (no pun intended), it amazes me. Some of my "favorite" irksome, cringe-worthy Carrie moments from SATC include, but are not limited to (in no particular order): 1. How she handled the whole Natasha mess (which was covered earlier in this thread); 2. Carrie asking Aidan "Well, what about the wedding" after just dropping the Big bombshell on him, clearly expecting that Aidan would or should be sticking around to celebrate her friend's marriage; 3. Carrie deciding "I think I want him back" after seeing Aidan at the party for the bar, as if it was her decision to make...as if she could just decide such a thing like she would decide what to have for lunch that day; 4. Carrie showing up at Aleks' apartment with her 3 tipsy friends in tow -- even after Aleks told her he was busy with his work and could not see her -- and then getting offended because he was cold to them; 5. Carrie saying (while blathering on about her botched relationship with Aidan) to Berger, "...[After we'd] sufficiently hurt each other enough..." Um...excuse me, who got hurt in the Aidan relationship, exactly? Who did most of the hurting?; 6. Carrie popping up at Big's apartment unannounced and uninvited, climbing on him and then getting mad because he was in the middle of watching a game and wouldn't have sex with her; 7. Carrie showing up to "meet" Big's mother, when he clearly was not ready for that; 8. Carrie getting pouty and mopey because Big wouldn't tell her she was The One (the person he would want to spend his entire life with) right before they were about to go on their very first trip together and presumably hadn't been dating all that long; 9. Any of the occasions on which Carrie made a loud scene, be it in a crowded restaurant or on the street, and 10. Carrie's annoying squealing and overall obnoxious behavior when visiting Aidan's cabin for the first time. We get it. You're a city girl. You aren't used to the country. Squirrels freak you out. How about you stop acting like you're 6 years old and try to actually adapt for the sake of this guy that you decided you wanted back in your life so badly after you cheated on him and lied to him? Anyway, those are just some of the shining Carrie moments for me. If I kept at it I could probably list dozens more. Lol. I always felt like the writers (MPK and whoever else) wanted us to side with Carrie on most things relating to people outside of her inner circle of friends. I always felt like we were supposed to think that Big was in the wrong every single time; Aleks was in the wrong every single time; Aidan was being a jerk for pushing Carrie to get married (after she insisted that he forgive her and pushed him to take her back), etc. Truth be told, Carrie did a lot of things that created a lot of unnecessary drama -- and I blame her for many of the issues that came up with her men (even though the men did jerky things too). I think that on the rare occasions when Miranda or Charlotte actually took Carrie to task for her behavior, they were totally right on the money.