BlackberryJam

I had drafted a very long response but somehow never posted it and it got lost in the ether. DRAT. So I'm trying to recreate. MR also dances in the pilot, while at the mall, totally humiliating Paige. It so reminded me of my own dad who used to sing and dance in public all the time. Paige was born in '68 and I was born in '70, so I was experiencing the world through the same aged lens. Which is why I find Holly Taylor just...not good. Anyway, I think joy is harder to convey than tragedy, which is why either MR was having a great time dancing or he's a better actor than I thought. I think those hardliners never truly went away. I mean, look at Russia now. I remember "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down that wall," even though I was never a Reagan fan. That was a moment, but it was also full of so much uncertainty. Could the Soviets be trusted? Should they be? Philip and Elizabeth had worked in the shadows to win the Cold War, when in the end, it just sort of fizzled away. Does that make them heroes? Or soldiers having committed atrocities in a war that never had a winner? Would they be celebrated? Shunted away to make way for a new way of looking at things? Arkady didn't even trust his own agents. I know thinking post-canon is just an exercise in frustration, but I've always been one to do it. I know Paige was supposed to be a college student at the end, but I struggled seeing her older than 17. As a character, she never matured for me. I get what you're saying about living as her authentic self as her ending. I just struggled so hard with the character. She never had an authentic self for me. Henry. I generally enjoyed Henry, but the final scene of him sitting in the bleachers with Stan involved some serious terrible acting on Keidrich Sellati's part. I didn't buy that Stan had just told him that his parents were Russian spies who fled the country without him. His reaction read more like, "Oh no, one of my five hamsters ran way, how could it do that to me?" YES. I could feel the devastation. And his scene with Oleg's wife. Both of them, it's just a gut punch. So much better than Stan's scene with Henry. I've been mulling over Hans and the anti-apartheid movement as well as Soviet-Afghan War. So much political legacy that makes this show all the more fascinating.

There are a lot of TV cop shows with male detectives who only mention their children once or twice a season and are never seen with them, so I'm not sure it should be different for Tosh.

So...still rewatching episodes. Philip's sex with Kimmy is some of the least sexy sex that ever sexed. He looks completely miserable. The scene in the show where Philip is happiest is the line dancing bit at the beginning of S6. Matthew Rhys moves well. You can see he was just having a great time in that one. And compared to Elizabeth, he just looks so relaxed and healthy. MR and KR are so damn good in those roles. I am repeatedly just floored by how well music was used in this show, and I love the fact that the music rights were paid all the way through syndication (I'm looking at YOU, Northern Exposure, but I suppose Joshua Brand learned his lesson.) The finale episode with Dire Straits, U2 and then Tchaikovsky is just perfect. There is an scene in season 5 when Elizabeth and Philip are fighting over training Paige and she says to him, something like, "I'm going ahead with this, with or without you." And on rewatch, that "With Or Without You" just so stood out, knowing how Paige walked away to that song. In fact, I can't hear "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" without thinking about Elizabeth looking at her shoes. I also appreciate Igor Burov so much more on rewatch. Boris Krutonog does so much with his face in his final scene, looking at Oleg's wife and the baby. I have tried to process the evidence of espionage when it comes to Oleg. All they have him doing is picking up a coded message. They have zero proof about what the message says. And if it says, "Hey Oleg, tell your people that some of our people are after Gorbachev," then I don't know how that leads to an espionage conviction. That's not classified information about the US or US national defense. A key element of the crime is specific intent to harm the United States. I think the FBI has a bunch of speculation about Burov but no actual proof that that he did anything. So in my head, after 8 months or so of the US attorney dicking around and trying to put pressure on him, Oleg is released and deported. Of course, what is he going back to? I mean, what did Philip and Elizabeth return to? Arkady, in sending Oleg, was acting outside Directorate S, because he was unsure of who he could trust in his own organization. How much cover did he have? The plot against Gorbachev obviously failed, but it's not like the old guard and the Claudias just vanished. Elizabeth killed Tatiana and foiled that assassination attempt and she told Claudia that. Of course, it likely didn't make any official report. Speaking of post-canon, I've often thought that Paige ended up running to Pastor Tim. She has the passport and money. Why go back to the apartment? I'm not sure why I have this show on repeat right now, except that it is engaging and satisfying, while also being comforting.

Hahhaha. Preach. I was born in 1970, so I am of an age with Paige. Her hair needed more frizz and AquaNet. But yeah, neither actor was bringing it. But but but, NINA LOVED HIM and she was PLAYING BUROV! No way could Nina not have been totally in love with the awesomeness that is Stan Beeman. It’s all Oleg’s fault! Stan lives in such a delusional state. Re: The transactional nature of Clark and Martha. Every time we see Philip with her, he’s either fucking her, manipulating her or managing her emotions so he can get what he wants from her. He’s not being his true self or even trying to share his thoughts and feelings with her. She’s pleasant enough for him and he doesn’t hate the interaction but he is always working her. Martha makes it easier for Philip by being emotionally open and clear about what she wants and needs from him. He never has to guess about what’s going to make her happy. Philip is trying to unpack the fuckedupness of his life. When he tells Elizabeth about beating the kid to death with a rock, Elizabeth’s response is “good, they deserved it,” which is not what Philip needs at all. I think of that scene where Philip keeps opening the door during his training and there’s a new person he has to fuck on the other side. Elizabeth being raped was horrific, but there were definite consent lines there. What Philip (and Elizabeth) went through with the sex training is a whole different kind of mindfuck. I always felt it implied that the next person after than man that Philip would have to screw would be a child, and either they weren’t showing that to us, or Philip had blocked it out. I mean, 15 year old Kimmy was the next step, right?

Matthew was just around to make Stan feel bad about himself and further the Paige storyline. Otherwise, they left him has a blank slate. I also don’t think the actor was bringing a lot to the table. There is a scene where Aderholt asks Stan out for a beer, saying he wants to talk about Stan working undercover with the white supremacists. Stan says yes to the beer but says he’s not going to discuss the undercover work. Initially, Stan is so uncomfortable with a black colleague until Dennis does exactly what Renee does, make the relationship easy for Stan. Even Sandra makes the breakup easy for Stan. When he keeps coming to her to tell her things, elicit sympathy, clear his conscience, she just acknowledges what he says and walks away. Stan is the most emotionally lazy and coddled man. Typical 80s white dude. There is a scene of Philip and Kimmy sitting on some steps outside. She’s wearing a perfect 80s pink sweater. He’s in a heavy coat. At one point she complains about being cold, Philip keeps rolling a joint. She mentions being cold at least twice more I think before Philip offers to cuddle with her. He’s so reluctant to touch her even in what should be a platonic way. I don’t think Martha is the person who gets Philip thinking. He’s always working her. I particularly remember when he plays the edited tape for her of the guys in Gaad’s office basically calling her unfuckable. Afterwards, she clearly needs him to boost her ego with sex and he says he can’t. The way he undermines her confidence is so calculated. I think Philip liked Martha and eventually felt like crap for destroying her life, but it’s just the job with her. Sure, he can compare her with his marriage to Elizabeth, but she doesn’t make him all introspective. You’re right. That is Kimmy. With Kimmy, he can’t escape how sleazy working her makes him feel. When he looks at Kimmy, he also sees Paige. Kimmy has serious Daddy issues and way too little parental oversight. I think his relationship with Kimmy is what gets Philip to the point of accepting Paige’s turn towards religion. I mean, at least she’s not meeting skeezy old dudes and getting high with them. Couple that with Elizabeth’s jealousy of Kimmy, which is a carryover of her jealousy of Martha. But Philip keeps saying to Elizabeth, “do you really think I’m sexually attracted to a girl our daughter’s age?” But Elizabeth isn’t listening. Philip and Elizabeth might have the most complicated TV marriage ever.

I meant to comment on this and forgot. Matthew was a missed costuming opportunity. They could have had him in a series of band t-shirts, REM, U2, Violent Femmes, the Smiths, New Order. And Stan could have asked awkward questions about each one. Amador was a total dick. I get that was his role, but he was such an asshole that I found him distracting. Aderholt was a definite upgrade. He had enough personality to be a defined character, but I never wanted to shove him off the screen. There was also opportunity for Stan’s 1980’s racism to come through, but Stan’s such a Teflon character. None of his bad deeds really stick to him. So…Kimmy. Julia Garner is great in the role. And I looked it up, she was 20/21. The disguise for Philip was so perfect. He looked just like a skeezy dude hanging around with a young girl. The way Gabriel kept pushing Philip to work her plays differently to me know knowing how Langella behaved on the Usher set. I don’t think that was “new” behavior. Amador led with his penis in every interaction.

I appreciate Gaad more on rewatch when I can pay attention to his little digs and comments. I also wanted to punch Gaad in the face for being so oblivious to Amador’s blatant sexism and borderline harassment of Martha. I mean, it never occurred to the FBI even once that Amador was being a fucking creeper and that maybe he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and no one went after him with an intent to kill. Yes, I wanted to punch Chris Amador in the face multiple times. The scene of Arkady and Gaad in the snow is great. Arkady is clearly saying, “your Chris Amador was a target of value, a full-fledged counterintelligence agent who could have disclosed valuable information, while Vlad was a boy.” Gaad is unwilling to give an inch, even though he likely knows that Vlad and Amador were in no way equivalent targets. Arkady is also letting Gaad know that he’s personally vulnerable, which is so interesting considering how Gaad eventually died. Stan is just such a shit to people. He’s horrible to Sandra and Nina, he doesn’t listen to anything Tori is telling him. He falls for Renee because she’s designed to be his perfect woman and he never has to go beneath the surface. I think if anyone at the FBI had treated Martha with respect, if they listened to her and let her do more than order supplies and retrieve files, she never would have been turned.

Arkady with his shirt sleeves rolled up, spray painting cars, did things for me. I own it. The conversation with Arkady and Oleg in Moscow about Philip and Elizabeth, how Philip is different. So much to unpack there. And then Arkady played chauffeur to Philip and Elizabeth at the end. Loved it. I have often wondered, when Philip and Elizabeth were crossing the border, what they said to the guard and who he called. I would have loved a silent scene of Arkady picking up the phone, giving the go ahead and then him closing a file, standing and grabbing his coat, making the choice to meet them himself rather than send a lackey. Ahhh…Arkady Ivanovich. He was so far superior to Gaad as a character. I despised Matthew’s hair but loved it when he said to Stan, “it’s a drag show, every one wears makeup, doesn’t mean I’m gay.” Matthew just knows how to read his father. Stan did draw in Henry as an easy to handle replacement son. I always got the feeling that Mrs. Gaad got no visitors because she was Vietnamese. Like she’d have something the FBI guys would see as weird, foreign grief that must be avoided. Thinking about it, we saw so many female KGB operatives and pretty much no women other than secretaries at the FBI. Elizabeth, Kate, Leanne, Claudia, Irina, Annalise, Nina, Aunt Helen, Tatiana, Lucia (although she was a Sandinista), Marilyn, the blonde woman at the call center who makes borscht and let’s not forget Renee. No wonder the FBI kept getting fooled by women.

Oh YES, I was ridiculously attached to Arkady. When he got PNGed, I was so pissed. Arkady never even had his own storyline, but I adored him. After Vasili and his gross relationship with Nina, I appreciated Arkady not fucking her, and also not fucking Tatiana when she came along. I always wanted more Arkady. They could have cut so much of the Paige crap and given us more Henry and Philip. UGH. Paige ruins everything. You’re right about the repercussions. Stan was a one man wrecking machine. For as many people as Philip and Elizabeth killed, Stan’s cold-blooded murder of Vlad always stood out. I think it ranks up there with Philip in the greenhouse and Elizabeth killing the Teacups for viciousness. And Stan thinks he’s a good guy. I loved Mrs. Gaad putting him in his place.

I started back on S1. I had forgotten that in the episode where Claudia has Philip beaten up to determine if he’s the mole (it’s Nina), that Paige and Henry end up hitchhiking home with a total creeper. Henry ends up bashing the guy in the back of the head with a beer bottle. They don’t tell Elizabeth and Philip. Later in the series, Philip remembers beating up (killing?) the boys that were bullying him. I would have liked to have seen some call back to Henry there as I’d forgotten. Also, DRINKING GAME: “what happened to Amador”, take a shot. We’d be wasted very quickly. Stan’s murder of Vlad is just horrific in retrospect. Not that Philip stabbing Amador was acceptable, but Amador came at Philip. Vlad was just jogging and then eating some fast food. Stan is so NOT a good guy. I love the character, but I have no illusions about him.

The Paige storyline could have been so much better with a better actress and better direction. There is a scene of Paige relatively early in the series where she’s complaining about her “entire crazy mixed up life” and I just want to giggle. Like, girl, you’re 15, you’ve barely lived enough to call your life crazy. That scene was so silly and not believable. I found Elizabeth very confusing in S6 when it came to Paige. She’s teaching her self-defense but acts like Paige will never have to use it. Elizabeth kills the guy who got Paige’s ID. She’s livid with Paige for running into the Colonel’s suicide. She’s telling Philip how good Paige is doing. I know that it’s showing us how the work is getting to Elizabeth, but she’s so waffle-y. Speaking of S5 Elizabeth, I wondered if they intended an HIV or herpes storyline with her. Keri Russell has a mole on her lip which was much more prominent in some episodes. They have her looking so rough at times. An STI would make sense for her or Philip. There’s a scene in S1 when Henry says Shit and Philip says something like, “language” and Paige says she was grounded for 2 weeks for cursing. I think Philip was definitely more warm and nurturing towards Henry, but also that Henry tended to get away with more, as younger children sometimes do. Then again, Henry was literally breaking into someone’s home and hanging out, but Paige got punished for going to church. Just other thing from my rewatch(es), Philip and Elizabeth have three garages but only seem to use one, right?

The look on Philip’s face is like, “you complete and total little shit, who the fuck do you think you’re talking to?” I compare this scene to the later scene of Philip going to see Paige at the apartment and Paige tells him that he’s not like her and Elizabeth. He then spares with her to show her exactly who can be if he chooses. Philip killed Elizabeth’s rapist with his bare hands, and then killed that man in the greenhouse with his bare hands. Philip may care and be questioning himself, but he’s also been absolutely ruthless. I think Elizabeth tells Philip to give her a minute because she knows Philip can be ruthless when he chooses. She also knows that she can deal with Tuan in a better way. @sistermagpie I don’t know if I was thinking Elizabeth wanted Tuan and Paige to be a couple as much as she was trying to imagine Paige’s future. Unless Paige married another 2nd Generation Illegal or another spy, Paige is going to end up just as alone as Tuan is. As to Paige and sex, Elizabeth is alternately casual about Paige having sex and then instructing Paige not to use sex. At some point later, Elizabeth says to Claudia that if something happens to Elizabeth, Claudia can “finish” with Paige. I always thought that finishing with Paige would mean teaching her how to use sex. The women have already had talks about their first times. I had no idea anyone thought Stan Beeman was a good father. Sandra is the good parent in that set. I always found Stan’s relationship with Henry borderline creepy. Clearly Henry is looking for parenting and guidance that he’s not getting at home. Stan enjoys spending time with someone who doesn’t remind him what a deeply flawed human he is. I agree that Stan always chooses the easy relationship. And WOW is Renee making it easy for him. I think Philip thinks Renee is an illegal/spy based on the fact that Stan brings almost NOTHING to the table, so it’s weird that Renee is making it that easy. I do, however, love Renee’s Jane Fonda Workout clothes. Haha.

I both disliked and pitied Tuan. I am assuming he was very young looking, but actually early 20s. He grew up in horrible conditions and then with a family of white saviors. He’s holding a lot of resentment and anger. That’s what makes him so dedicated to the cause. Paige has grown up relatively spoiled and pampered (although Philip and Elizabeth are often absent). Elizabeth appreciates Tuan’s dedication, but I don’t think she likes him. She asks Philip if Tuan talks about girls. This is also happening around the time Paige breaks up with Matthew. So we’ve got two “teenage” trainees who are single. (However, I thought that Tuan might be gay?) After Tuan “turns” on Elizabeth and Philip and say he’s going to report them, Elizabeth cuts him to the bone, telling Tuan that he’s not going to make it. She shatters Tuan’s confidence deliberately and intentionally. I don’t like Tuan, but Elizabeth is deliberately cruel. Elizabeth then tells Tuan that he’s needs a partner. And Paige has broken up with Matthew. It just seems…complicated and layered and I never quite understood if I was supposed to see parallels there. I didn’t feel like it was fully developed. I was hoping there was more insight, something to help me see what I feel like I’m missing. Also, can I add in that Stan Beeman is a crap father. Did people really think he was a good dad? He fully admits he doesn’t understand his own son, and hey Stan, maybe it’s because you left him for three years to go undercover. Stan makes his preference for Henry over Matthew abundantly clear. Such a crap parent.

The ease with which she is able to handle Stobert makes her feel confident and powerful, while Philip is clearly floundering. Stobert makes Elizabeth feel that she’s good at her job and that what she’s doing is important. Elizabeth doesn’t like Stobert for who he is, because he’s just a windbag. She likes that she doesn’t have to put in a lot of work to him. This is in contrast to how much work she’s having to put into the relationship with Philip. She doesn’t understand his interest in EST. She is frustrated by him questioning the work and his apparent loss of commitment to the cause. At the same time, she’s stuck playing happy families with Tuan and Philip while listening to the Alexei. I see her as comparing Philip and Alexei. Alexei likes America. He likes the food, the stuff people have, all of that. Philip “likes it here too much.” The Morozov job feeds into her loss of confidence in Philip while everything about the Stobert job validates her. Do you have thoughts on Tuan and Paige?

@sistermagpie I’m rewatching the show again, mostly because I wanted to relive Elizabeth’s reaction to Reagan and to know that seemingly destructive political choices are survivable. I came across these summaries. I haven’t gone back to read them all, just the last five or so. And you really nail the problems with Paige’s scenes. It’s not just the acting, it’s the direction as well. Paige’s “inner monologue” is just a superficial annoying buzz. Regarding Deidre and Philip, I really saw such a difference in Philip in how in S1 he was able to work Martha, anticipate her needs and fulfill them, and I don’t just mean the sex. He’s floundering with Deidre not just because she is aggressively independent but because he has lost a feel for the work. He no longer has the energy and will to attune himself to Deidre to get her to bond. The sex with her is perfunctory and barely satisfying for either of them, so different from Clark who took the time to rock Martha’s world. Philip isn’t Clark anymore, and he has no idea who Gus Alexander is. Stobert sucks. So much. He’s just such a self-important douche. It’s easier for Elizabeth to work him because he doesn’t want to know anything about Brenda. He just needs an audience. Elizabeth can do that with her eyes closed. Each rewatch gives me more. Such a good show. Thanks for these @sistermagpie

My Steelers are the worst 8-2 team in the NFL. Then again, I’d rather be lucky than good.

Voit is a terrible, boring, dull villain who brings nothing to the show and should just die and be gone.

A blurb came across for me that Neil Dudgeon verified he has no plans to leave the show. So hopefully we have many more seasons to come.

Oh, I wasn't clear. I think it should absolutely be the non-BAU spouses who cheat. The BAU members always put their jobs over family. Will could cheat with another cop maybe? I wouldn't want the BAU members cheating on spouses with each other. Yuck.

I thought an affair/divorce story would have been perfect for the Hotchners. She was alone all the time. Beth meets a nice single dad at a soccer game. Aaron realizes what the BAU is costing him but is torn by the responsibility he feels to find serial killers, enter therapy and so on. They could do that with JJ and Will. If JJ were still the liaison, they could fight over how she can present a calm, support front to others, but she's taking her stress out on him at home. He isn't sure this life is good for him or the boys. And so on. It could be a slow drip throughout a season.

Why would she? They were both established in their respective careers. Why would either of them take the other's name?

Regarding the age of the female cast and beauty standards, at this point in her life, JJ needs a new haircut. That limp, middle-part stringy look is just...bad. Cut it shorter with some layers, fluff it up, and give her the "I have kids, I showered and ran my fingers through it" style. Which would work for her. I do feel like JJ would be so much happier if she just got a good shampoo. As to Penelope, there are no words for my visceral, negative reaction to the character. MGG's Reid brought a sweetness and innocence to the show, if that makes sense. No matter how bad it got, there was a hopefulness in him that I don't see from anyone else. I mean, sure, the put him in prison and made him an addict, but MGG's acting made me feel like the character always saw a light at the end of the tunnel.

@Anela I didn't watch many of those shows as well. I was at a point in my life where life was busy, and I was also married, so adjusting my viewing choices to something we both liked. At this point in my life, I'm not sure if I'd want to go back and watch Gilmore Girls, Supernatural or The OC. I don't know if those shows would speak to me now. At the same time, I enjoy a VM rewatch. There's something comforting in a rewatch.

@Anela You're in for a ride.

Harry is played by the same guy who played one of Kristen’s love interests in Brokenwood. I love actor crossover.