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Thanks. I thought so, too. It’s just weird because of the RL ages of the actors, like there’s almost 20 years between JB Smoove and Melissa Fumero. And about 10 between Randall Park and Smoove. Until their time in HS was referenced, I definitely did not think Timmy and Percy were peers. Let alone Eliza and Percy.

Are Timmy, Eliza, and Percy all supposed to be around the same age?

I thought that Elliot’s observation that he gets an asexual vibe from Rue hit something for me. You can be an asexual lesbian, because I definitely get the feeling that she’s romantically attracted to Jules, she definitely wants to date her, but I really have never caught any sexual chemistry between the two. From Jules side, some, but she’s a more sexual character, has always worn that freely.

I think the affair with Jonathan both made Sylvia feel very guilty in her friendship with Grace AND made her very aware of Jonathan’s duplicitous nature. I think she knows he’s more than just a cheater, that she saw enough to make her wary of Jonathan and protective of Grace. I think Jonathan will wield that little nugget of information at just the right time against both Grace and Sylvia. Dude is a flat out sociopath, imo.

The show keeps telling us this and how he’s a dick but not a murderous one and the more they show how he charms and manipulates and that talk show dramatic emotional pause that Jonathan really tried to sell, the more I think this is all going to be a bunch of red herrings that will end in, “Yep, Jonathan was the murderer after all! Isn’t he just such a scoundrel?” Because the story is Grace’s, her “undoing”, learning the truth from her father, her best friend(oh yeah, she totally slept with Jonathan), her husband, and, ultimately, herself, the wise therapist who helped others but never learned to help herself until she was forced to.

This was the most genuine reaction I’ve seen from Mark during this series and I didn’t mind Catherine’s presence only because she brought out the reaction. They’re all working as a team to bring NXIVM down, but Catherine is an outsider, traumatized indirectly, and able to say she was never seduced by these teachings or these people. And she showed that off in her talk with Bonnie, joking about her “dog bed”. And it was obviously not intended to be cruel, but Catherine didn’t recognize that this was painful and this wasn’t just a silly memory. Mark and Sarah have both told these stories over and over and, imo, that’s why some of their emotions have come off as acting, rather than genuine. There’s a distance as they recount, because there’d have to be. But Mark’s response to seeing Bonnie have to laugh off her trauma, at remembering this awful detail from their relationship that they have not fully dealt with, at remembering how “stupid” they had to be to believe this stuff, and to have it sparked by an outsider, all felt more genuine than other times Mark has tried to be emotional. Not as rehearsed and both Catherine and Bonnie’s responses seemed more genuine to the moment as well.

It’s obvious from contextual clues in the dialogue that she was aware it was a sex anniversary, but disagree away lol.

My father gets his Valium just fine with an electronic script.

That still means she knew it was the first time he and Carol had sex, which is still very weird. ROSS: Oh my God, oh- is today the twentieth, October twentieth? MONICA: Oh, I was hoping you wouldn't remember. ROSS: Ohhh. JOEY: What's wrong with the twentieth? CHANDLER: Eleven days before Hallowe'en.. all the good costumes are gone? ROSS: Today's the day Carol and I first.. consummated our physical relationship. (JOEY IS PUZZLED) Sex I mean, raise your hand if you know the exact date of when your sibling first had sex with their significant other?

It was worth it just for the “dilated-a-mundo”. Watching TOW George Stephanopoulos and I’m still confused by Monica's awareness of it being the anniversary of Ross and Carol’s first time having sex, to the point that she knew the exact date. Was this an anniversary the two celebrated with others? Were there parties and Hallmark cards? Did college Ross call up his little sister to inform her he’d just lost his virginity and so she marked it down in her diary so she could...celebrate it with him? It makes perfect sense for Ross to remember this, for him and Carol to have made this a special date, and to have Ross confessing it to the guys as to why it’s such a special day. It’s just very weird to me that Monica is that aware of this anniversary. Then again, the writers showed off often how strangely they perceive brother/sister relationships.

Quoting BIAKBIAK:

You know this is a forum in which to share these reactions, right?

I agree wholeheartedly about the orchestration and I’m curious how detailed it all was and how many were in the know. I definitely think the triumvirate of Sandy, Bugsy, and Malia was set and was part of selling them on this season, with the added incentive of them all teaming up against Hannah. Maybe not in getting her fired, but definitely in at least demoting her. Just any way to gang up and humiliate her. I do wonder if Hannah was in on it at all. Obviously not the reveal of the meds, I think that was just a lucky find on Malia’s part and maybe she’ll get a bonus for lining up the kill shot. But overall I do wonder if Hannah was given some idea, though i’m assuming she caught on right quick when Bugsy reappeared. My biggest question is how did Bravo think this was going to sell. Did they think that the Hannah hate was enough to balance out Sandy/Malia/Bugsy behaving horribly and stupidly and so very unlikeable? Did the women know how much they’d be villainized, because the way they’re all doubling down, I get the impression they think they should each be crowned and Hannah stoned? Overall, I’m just curious if this is all playing out how they each expected. The show is certainly not gaining viewers, Hannah is likely the happiest she’s been in a long time, where’s the win here?

Watching the rerun of TOW the Tiny T-shirt, and it’s the first episode with Joey’s play and meeting Kate. What’s confusing to me is all that talk sand all the rehearsals that imply this dramatic play, especially with how Kate waxes poetic about the playwright. But then we see that bizarre part of the play with the spaceship ending and I’m not sure why. I mean, yes, they made it into a joke, but it wasn’t a funny joke and...Meh.

OT, but I looove your avatar 🙂

What I still don’t understand, what I don’t think the series has portrayed, is why Dan went about everything as visciously and cruelly as possible. Look, unhappy in a marriage, get a divorce, whatever. Cheating is a sign of pure disrespect for what the marriage and the person, imo. But Dan seemed to take pure pleasure in absolutely destroying her, happy to lead her on just to make sure the fall would hurt the most. I see how awful it became, very well illustrated in this episode, but other than being very driven and wanting to go bigger and better once Dan became more successful, I don’t get why when things first started to go bad, why it was *so* bad. Maybe I’m that naive or maybe I need to read one of these books because the series didn’t really show a build. Was Dan really that one-dimensional and uncaring? Was he that vengeful? I just don’t get that vengeful feeling from the start. What did Betty do to deserve that? Honestly asking here.

Chandler’s right, a wedding IS just a party.

TOW Mrs. Bing has one of the most (unintentionally, likely) creepy storylines. No, not Ross making out with Chandler’s mom, but Monica and Phoebe fawning over a stranger in a coma, even going as far as changing his pajamas.

I’m just gonna say I was totally on Joey’s side regarding Hugsy, his bedtime penguin pal. Getting Emma her own was completely reasonable and a good solution. That she didn’t respond perfectly immediately was not a big deal, imo. She was a baby and would’ve adjusted eventually. Yes, it’s a stuffed animal, but it still was Joey’s and had personal value to him and Rachel acting as if Joey should give it up to Emma just because always annoyed me. That aside, when Rachel calls Hugsy a “stupid penguin” and Joey covers Hugsy’s ears and Rachel scolds him for it is easily one of the funniest moments.

I’m also rewatching TOW Rachel Goes Back To Work and it reminds me that the storyline with Gavin Mitchell(Dermot Mulroney) always felt abrupt to me. Like it should’ve been more developed and lasted a little longer, but the writers were forced to rush it for some reason.

Of course it’s possible to be complex. Just look at Lenú and Lila, who are wonderfully complex characters and have the audience championing them in one moment while equally frustrated and angry with them and their actions(and inactions) in the next. There’s a knowing cruelty in many of Lila’s actions, for example, especially towards Lenú, that I cannot stand, but looking at her sincere happiness for Lenù’s success, looking at the life she’s working through at a meat factory, just to have independence and freedom, I still feel for her, I still want her to find her own success and her happiness, because at her core, she is not a cruel person, just a human being trying desperately to be in charge of her own life, her own future, and escape the oppression of her husband/family/neighborhood. I don’t necessarily think it’s as black and white as hero and villain, exactly, but one’s actions do speak for onesrlf. Yes, all characters are human and therefore flawed but, for example, an abuser is someone whose motivation is to denigrate, break down, possess, force. An abuser might fully believe that they are motivated by “love”, but it’s their distorted version of love and it can only exist and thrive by the abuser’s rules and perspective and at the cost of the abused and the abused’s wants and needs. That kind of action in a character, imo, defines them and no amount of backstory justifications actually justifies the actions. To sum up: A decent character can be complex and have shitty moments, but is still a decent character. A shitty character can be complex and have decent moments, but is still a shitty character. Redemption and change is possible, sure, but it requires effort, action, and remorse, imo. And, as the audience, it’s possible to enjoy that shitty character, I certainly have, but I also think it’s important to enjoy them as a character without trying to excuse the shitty behavior.

Ada is willing to conform to Stefano, value what he values, be the woman he specifically wants. Men like Stefano look at women like Lila as something to break, something to win. I’ll agree that he took Ada because she’s easier, but I don’t believe his love was so genuine or vulnerable for Lila. He wanted, he needed, he demanded, he took, he stole, he broke. None of that was love, even if he called it that as he raped Lila during that storm. Not all of the men we’ve seen force themselves on women or beat them into submission. We are shown that marked contrast in Enzo, who clearly wants something more with Lila, but doesn’t force himself on her. Stefano’s reputation is much more important to him and just like he has convinced himself that this proprietary hold he has on Lila is love, he convinced himself that as long as Lila didn’t say it, Gino was his and he was a successful, happy family man in his neighborhood, his businesses, etc. And look, he has the strong willed woman no one else could ever tame! So nah, I don’t give him credit for keeping the facade going, because he benefitted from it. And with Ada, he ultimately benefited as well, after Lila left. I don’t think Stefano is all that complex. He’s simple and he tried to handle his life as simply as he knew how. It’s not portrayed as something the audience should be conflicted over, though, imo. The way he was filmed and lit the first time he raped Lila on their honeymoon, that rape scene during the storm while he kept telling her he loved her as he rutted away on top of Lila’s inert body, how he attacked his nephew, how Lila and Ada bonded over their bruises, these aren’t scenes meant to highlight that Stefano is just misunderstood or only a product of his time. He’s an abusive POS amongst many other abusive PsOS, sure, but it’s highlighted that these are very negative qualities that one should try to escape from. After this season, the only men I could even slightly root for are Pasquale, Pietro, and Enzo**, but it’s a super low bar. **Enzo just barely eeked by here, after not respecting her choice and bringing her back to the neighborhood and Stefano. On the other hand, he currently seems to be the most positive man Lila has ever had in her life. Again, I know, low bar lol.

It looked like she was wearing a hard candy wrapper.

You know those little actor tics you pick up on and once you do, it’s all you can notice for a while? Like how Aniston and Schwimmer always do that throat clearing thing? I noticed another Schwimmer tic recently. When he kisses people, he punctuates them with a “Mwah!” Not with long, romantic kisses, but like when he kisses Ben or Monica.

That was ridiculous, him confessing he’s also loved her since childhood. Come’on! Though, him bringing her home to her husband and to her life of repression doesn’t exactly exhibit this all consuming love, imo. I appreciated what Pasquale said and, at this point, he’s the only neighborhood boy I can still root for, After dragging her secret lover out of hiding from the back room of her husband’s shoe store, watching Lila gush to Lenú that money and schooling didn’t matter to them, they’d just live on love(!), you just knew it was all going fall apart. Lila tasting real attraction and sex without rape and with a man who is so different than the men in her life, her age and naïveté really came through. But insecure men are not just of one class or one level of education. Nino has shown before with Lenú how threatened he is by others’ success or intellect. Lila was a challenge, an enigma, clay he could mold for himself. Once Lila was beyond that, once Nino was not succeeding, the little love nest lost its appeal very quickly. I really loved how they filmed Lenù’s reaction to seeing Lila again and finding out about her and Nino still being together. How everything was out of focus, how it rocked whatever balance she had been maintaining all this time she stayed away from them, and once again, Lila helped fuel her fire, burning away her insecurities that she wasn’t good enough for the school in Pisa, because screw that, she was getting out. Well, that, and, you know, that mom killing herself. I really look forward to seeing Lenú having a life outside of the neighborhood, independent of Lila(for a little while, at least). I can’t say I felt for Stefano. I’m sure he loves Lila in his own messed up way, and it’s been illustrated again and again that being a brute is perfectly acceptable husband behavior in their families. But that doesn’t mean Lila has to accept or ever embrace the man who brutally raped her on their wedding night, who betrayed the partnership she thought they were getting into when they decided to get married. Stefano doesn’t get it, doesn’t see why everything he has done and given her since then doesn’t win her love and affection. But I get it. For his own pride, she knows he’ll embrace this baby and Lila will be able to use it as another manipulation tactic. In her position, she needs to have some kind of power play.