amensisterfriend

More UOs stemming from the revival! 1. Not only were the much-hyped 'final four words' majorly disappointing to me in and of themselves, but if that's really what AS-P's dream ending was for the series when Rory was just 21/22, then I'm more glad than ever that she wasn't around for S7. 2. Shallow alert: LG's hair looked terrible the whole revival unless it was up in a bun/ponytail. I say this as someone who has perpetually terrible hair, so I really do sympathize, but it actually distracted me a little. It was so weirdly colored, overly processed and just this weird texture. 3. AS-P's childish petulance re. refusing to acknowledge S7's existence actually had a clear negative impact on the revival for me, especially when it came to the characterization of Logan, a character I often struggled to like and was up and down on anyway and now pretty much outright can't stand. 4. You guys know how stubbornly I've clung to my love for Rory over the years, but after this revival I'm honestly not sure that I'll ever love her again. Trust me, I get being personally and professionally lost, so I should have found her storyline relatable and sympathetic, but instead it just made me think less of the character in so many ways. The best I can say is that at least the show didn't keep handing her everything she ever could have wanted on a proverbial silver platter and seemed to tacitly acknowledge a lot of the fans' 'special snowflake' complaints about her character. Honestly, though, I feel like this current incarnation of Rory is the worst of Emily and Lorelai without either of those ladies' positive qualities. 5. KB is a gifted actress and Emily's scenes were among the sadly few highlights of the revival for me, but I have the UO of feeling like parts of that story felt really off. Then again, nearly the whole revival felt forced, off and/or depressing to me! 6. I still wish Rory had ended up a teacher. I thought she really came alive during her Chilton presentation. Plus, I would love to hear her particular take on certain works of literature like, say, The Scarlet Letter. ;) (Sorry, guys---I make lame jokes to cope with my disappointment!) 7. You guys, DEAN was among the highlights of this revival for me. Dean! I've always been anti-Dean, but his scene was really satisfying for me, and I ended up liking him more than many of our other characters this time---if only by default :) Someone on Tumblr summed it up hilariously, how Rory was all "gosh, I was so safe with you, I wish we'd been older and more mature when we met" and he in the nicest way possible is sort of like "yeah, I really love my wife and kids and the life I've built away from you..." And the pitiful thing is, Rory kind of WAS at her most comparatively mature (and ethical, thoughtful, considerate, etc.) back when she first met Dean, at least IMO. I just love that the once creepily clingy Dean turned out to be the only ex to truly move on from Rory even after all these years. 8. I know we were supposed to be a little touched by Chris referring to Rory as "a force of nature," but I literally laughed out loud. Emily and Lorelai (and Paris, of course) can accurately be called forces of nature in both very complimentary and not-so-complimentary ways, but Rory?! She's so tepid and passive and wimpy and suggestible, etc. I honestly struggle to think of a less accurate description of her than 'force of nature' :) 9. I now kind of think Jess is too good for Rory. I'm not joking.

I think deep down I was hoping to finally fall for L/L during this revival and love them like nearly everyone else does, but it didn't happen for me, either. There's just this lack of chemistry, joy, and compatibility there, at least for me. I wish so much I didn't see them that way.

I could not agree more! And the bolded part has me cracking up out loud :) I think Summer was least favorite of the episodes overall. It's partly because of that interminable, insanely self-indulgent musical!

Maybe they're saving that lovely little reveal for the next installment ;) Seriously, a lot of the Gilmore girls characters have always seemed strangely clueless about the existence of birth control. I was thinking about this as well! I get that AS-P really likes it when things come full circle, but was that really her dream ending all along for a newly graduated Rory who had all these dreams and goals for a lofty career? Would she have had Rory in a serious relationship at the time and, if so, with who? I could see her having Rory sleep with Jess right after breaking up with Logan at some point in S7 (or, hey, maybe while she was still with Logan; Rory isn't overly hung up on that sort of thing!) and leaving us to wonder whose baby it was or...*shudder* Honestly, I'm not dismissing anyone's very valid complaints about S7, but this revival has had the unintended effect of having me appreciate that season and particularly its ending more than ever before. Ha! I want so much to say that none of this could ever possibly happen, but...

Exactly. She's not only ignoring plot points like Logan's proposal, but the relative amount of growth and maturity he showed that season and his continued willingness to carve a path for himself that was separate from his father's. I'm not much of a Logan fan, but this revival was a real regression for him---away from the Logan I'd started to tolerate and occasionally genuinely like and right back to the Logan I couldn't stand.

Oh, dear, so it sounds like another season is a much stronger possibility than I'd thought. After all, there have to be some married or engaged men who Rory hasn't slept with yet, so there are still more stories to tell! ;) Seriously, if there is another season, that would be awesome news for those who loved it and would give hope to those of us who DIDN'T love it that maybe better things are to come...?! THIS! I actually wanted to mention this in my initial rambling post about what I liked and didn't like: as much as the revival disappointed me overall, one thing I liked and found interesting was that it almost came off like the normally far too stubborn ASP actually heard and took to heart feedback about Rory being too much of a 'special snowflake' who never suffers any consequences for her choices and gets everything in life handed to her with ease. General question for you guys: Do you feel like Rory and Logan were genuinely in love during this revival and just unable to say so and act on it for various reasons? I didn't quite read it that way, but a lot of people did, so I'd be curious to hear feedback!

This seems like the right time to trot out the very unpopular opinion that I actually LIKE S7---more than S5 and S6 and definitely more than this new revival. It had its very definite missteps, don't get me wrong, but it also restored some likability to Rory, Luke, and Emily for me, became the only season during which I liked Logan and Zach, toned the townies down a tiny bit, and just in general brought back some of the warmth and charm that had been missing for me. And the S7 finale hit me just right emotionally despite objectively not loving all the specifics of it.

I found myself feeling the EXACT same way! LOL! It's funny because it's so sadly true ;) So is another season of this a nearly confirmed reality or just a remote possibility? I thought it was the latter, but people keep mentioning a next season like it's almost a lock.

The more I read (not just from here, but all over the internet!), the more I feel like in her attempt not to alienate either Logan/Rory fans or Jess/Rory fans, AS-P irked both camps: she reverted Logan back to the womanizing, smug and smirky playboy d-bag, effectively taking away the 'growth' he had gotten in the series (granted, most of which seems to have taken place during the final DR-helmed season) and making him suddenly less able or willing than ever to stand up to his father. Sure, Rory's having his baby (probably), but it was the result of an affair they were having while he was engaged and she was in a committed relationship, and she's not even sure she wants to TELL him about their child, so it's hard to feel too rosy about their overall dynamic. As for Jess, while I get the idea that he may be her Luke and that he tends to push her in the right direction when she's at a crossroads in her life (inspiring her to return to college in S6, urging her to feel better about herself and write the book this time around), it's hard to ignore that Jess/Rory in general wasn't given much focus at all and that Rory seemed not to return any of his romantic feelings, so while fans of that relationship can't say they'll NEVER get together, it certainly doesn't feel like an imminent possibility, especially now that she's pregnant with Logan's baby. And is Jess waiting around with the slim hope that Rory one day deigns to notice him romantically while raising Logan's child (and possibly continuing her now established pattern of getting involved with married/engaged men along the way, haha) really a cheery prospect for R/J fans anyway?! I know that some hate Jess and understand why, but I feel like the character deserves better. Anyway, if AS-P didn't want Rory to end up with anyone from her past, at least not definitively, I totally understand and even mostly agree with that, but I wish she had taken us on a different journey to get there. The one she went with feels not so much more complex as just depressing, with Jess still pining and Logan still...Logan-ing, and it made both Rory and Logan less likable to me while feeling a little sorry for Jess. And a huge YES to whoever noted that it feels like the theme of this revival is that we're fated to inevitably turn out just like our parents even if we don't want to, which I find bleak and kind of lazy. Logan is totally mini-Mitchum and seemingly powerless not to obey his parents' commands, Rory is arguably more like Lorelai at the very start of the series than ever before in the most dispiriting ways, (yet without Lorelai's strength, resilience, vibrancy, independence and determination). GG at its best advocated for the idea that, yes, some things are predestined and we can't escape certain familial ties or similarities, but we can also make our own very different choices from our parents and carve out different lives for ourselves. The revival seemed to almost convey the opposite. (To be fair, the revival DID give is something of a more optimistic 'hey, your life is what you make it, however many surprises you may meet with along the way!' message with Emily, though it was a little hard for me to feel as good about as I should have since it stemmed from such a sad event and some of the specifics of her story felt off to me.) I wish I wanted a 'part 2' of this, but I'd honestly much rather watch the earlier seasons of the series and remember why I loved it :)

I don't think there IS going to be more, at least not anything that's been confirmed! I think there's been vague talk of maybe wanting to, but to my knowledge there's nothing definitive at all. Ha---yeah, sadly, that might be the end outside of fanfic! Dear god I despise the Life and Death Brigade. They're more insufferable now than they were then.

Amen, sister friend! ;) I just wrote that in the Fall thread, so we're on the same wavelength, and not just about that one issue. Overall, I'd give it a C. Honestly, this has always been a show of individual great scenes and lines for me rather than great stories/characterizations/relationships/etc. overall, and the fact that this revival had a few (though not too many!) isolated moments of awesomeness was its saving grace for me. Taken as a whole, though, it left me pretty unsatisfied. Even as someone whose expectations were fairly low, I'm a little disappointed. All rational analysis aside, I just know that the best GG episodes boost my mood and spirits...and this revival didn't. I don't think the show and its characters aged well---or maybe my tolerance for them has just decreased over time. I'd imagine that the hardest task for a TV writer is to show some clear character growth and change WITHOUT departing from who the characters are in the first place, so I kind of sympathize with how hard it must have been to capture these characters after a decade had elapsed: too much change and evolution and we wouldn't feel they're recognizable and quintessentially THEM, while not enough would have the audience complaining of stagnation. The latter turned out to be more of an issue for me :) But it's more than that---in some ways the characters actually seemed even worse, most notably Rory, and while most of us might have the same basic flaws we did ten years ago (lord knows I do!), the way they manifested made the characters kind of unsympathetic and grating to me. And, let's be real, a lot of these characters could be a little unsympathetic and/or grating to begin with :) Like, for instance, Rory's not just making the same TYPE of mistakes, she's making the exact same and/or worse ones. Anyway, the bright spots overall: Paris, KB's acting, some of the therapy with Emily/Lorelai, Rory realizing that the whole international correspondent thing isn't for her, probably a couple of other little things I'm blanking out on. Disappointments (all just in my opinion, of course!): Pretty much everything regarding the Rory/Logan relationship and Rory's treatment of Paul; the fact that Jess is still pining for her even though she doesn't seem to feel the same----maybe she'd be more interested in him if he were engaged or married to someone else, haha---; the fact that Rory seems on the verge of Anna-ing Logan; the way that everything about their scenes and the 'Logan is Rory's Christopher!' parallels ASP seems to clunkily draw have me wanting R/L together less than ever before but that somehow her ending up raising their baby without him is just as depressing; Emily's ending making me weirdly uncomfortable even though I don't think it was supposed to; L/L still not selling me on the fact that they are or would be a happy, compatible, loving, smoothly communicating couple in the long term; the fact that even Lorelai/Rory's relationship didn't really warm my heart despite it previously being my very favorite aspect of the show. Oh, and that endless musical and too much Kirk and that Lane/Zack still don't work for me and how a lot of the dialogue and pop culture references felt forced and off and that I hated the fat jokes and gay jokes....yeah, suffice it to say there was a lot more I disliked than liked, and I hate feeling that way! I have no idea what is going to happen with Rory/Logan in the future, and, after this revival, I care less than ever before. It sounds like I can't deal with ambiguous, less-than-fully-happy endings, and that's actually not the case at all. It's just that in this case I left feeling more down than up and less fond of these already sufficiently flawed characters, and, honestly, that's not what I personally want from GG :) I preferred S7 to this by a surprisingly wide margin, though those who have braved the UO thread knows that I even preferred S7 to S5 and S6, so you can't go by me :) I doubt they'll be another part to this revival, but even if there is, I'm not so sure I'd want to watch it.

I'm guessing we're only allowed to discuss this final episode in this thread, so just to let you guys know, I asked some general revival questions in the "all episodes" thread! Ha! Yeah, it's kind of hard not to view it that way :) I'm very interested to hear how people interpreted the (non)-ending between her and Logan: whether we're supposed to see the Lorelai/Christopher parallels and therefore feel like Rory/Logan aren't meant to be, or whether we're supposed to believe/want/expect etc. that maybe they'll eventually get together...? I get that we're supposed to applaud Rory for deciding to go through this pregnancy on her own (though she'll obviously have her mom and Emily for anything she needs), but I couldn't help being reminded of what Anna did to Luke by not telling him he was a father and wonder if she's going to go that route by never telling Logan. As for Jess, I have to agree with Junie: I didn't see any indication that she had romantic feelings for him, and this is coming from someone who'd have preferred that she end up with Jess over Logan. But of COURSE Jess is still holding some sort of torch for her because...well, she's RORY! (*sigh*) The LL ending was...fine? I'm sure if I shipped them I'd have thought it was one of the best things about the revival, but they seemed as lacking in chemistry and joy to me through the most of the revival as they did through most of their time together on the series, so I'm not as excited about it as I should be. I'll ramble about my overall thoughts on the All Episode thread and hope to see you guys there!

So now that some have seen the whole revival: Which of the four episodes was your favorite? Least favorite? How well did you feel it capped off the series overall? What were the best and worst things about the revival for you? Overall, did it meet, exceed or fall short of your expectations? What do you expect to happen with the characters post-revival? I know we have specific threads for each individual episode, but I thought it would be interesting to have a general chat about the revival as a whole :)

Oh, boy, IMO that musical was just so...what's the phrase I'm looking for...in need of major trimming and editing! It just felt like AS-P at her worst: self-indulgent, way over the top quirky and cutesy and pleased with her own sense of 'whimsy', and with no sense whatsoever of when less is more. I was ill-prepared for just how annoyed I would be with Rory throughout most of this revival. Rory, I was a proud member of your unofficial 'defense squad' once...and now you have one more installment, "Fall", to remind me why :)

Sadly enough, this may be the highlight of the entire revival for me so far. You guys, I'm not kidding. I wish I were!

Right there with you! And it sucks as someone who's been a fan for so long and WANTS to love every facet of this show. Romance was actually a pretty big part of this series, but I just don't feel like this show does it well at all. GG excels when it comes to writing some playful, flirtatious and sweet pre-relationship scenes and some amazingly poignant post-relationship scenes, but the actual romantic relationships themselves tend to be written, directed and often acted in such a way that really turns me off to them and makes me feel like the characters are much more likable when they're single. I almost never like the way the show writes male love interests, the way our Gilmores act in relation to those male love interests, or its views of what constitutes a happy and functional romantic relationship in general. This is one of my greatest TV-related disappointments! Initially, I loved their relationship---it was so complex, relatable, entertaining (both of these women can win gold medals in snark, after all), and surprisingly touching. And I even genuinely understood where BOTH Emily and Lorelai were coming from despite how irked I sometimes was by how they chose to express their pain and resentment. But, god, it was just so wearying---for every single gratifying step forward there were about five steps back, and soon I stopped letting myself care about any apparent progress because I knew it was unlikely to last for even one full episode.

Part of me was prepared to outright dislike this, another part hoped I'd love it, and the reality proved to be somewhere in between...though a bit more to the 'dislike' side. I'm just kind of indifferent to it. I think I'd give it a C. My view of this episode could definitely change once I view the subsequent ones. Taken on its own, though, it just felt kind of off, kind of dark, kind of trying-too-hard-ish. And I agree with whoever felt vaguely depressed by it. For me, this show was always at its best when it was sparkly and life-affirming, not when they placed too much of an emphasis on drama. And I get that drama, sadness, confusion, anger etc. are all part of life and part of this show, but it just felt like in this installment that wasn't counterbalanced by the positive energy, warmth and hope that the best GG episodes gave us. Oh, Rory. I loved you so much for the first few seasons of this series. And I don't think you've grown and changed over the years so much as pitifully regressed, becoming your less likable self and losing a lot of what made me once love you. Sigh. I mean, look, I've been lost personally and professionally a lot too, so I should be able to really relate to Rory's storyline, but she somehow acts like a passive, vaguely petulant victim of her own life rather than a proactive participant, and it really bugs me. Luke and Lorelai still seemed flat and joyless to me. There was too much forced emphasis on the every-so-preciously quirky townies for me. Some of the pop culture references felt really strained. I liked seeing Paris again, Emily/KB had some amazing material and...well, that's about it for the stuff I really liked. Maybe Spring will spark a rebirth of my GG love :)

Well...sort of. :) Whenever I rewatch the end of S5 and S6 (which, granted, is not often!), I see it as an engagement that was clearly doomed from the start and am not sure either truly wanted to marry at all. Lorelai proposed impulsively because she had just lost Rory and was scared to lose the only other person in her life who she cared about, and then they both spent the entire next season looking forward to the big event with all the zest of an upcoming execution: postponing and putting off setting a date for various reasons, their dynamic joyless and awkward and both acting like they couldn't believe what they had gotten themselves into. Even Sookie and people in their lives commented on their lack of enthusiasm, and that was even before it was revealed that Luke went two full months without telling Lorelai about his long lost daughter and the fallout. Obviously I come from a non-Java Junkie perspective, but at the time even a lot of people who do root for them were commenting that it seemed clear neither wanted or felt ready to get married. Regardless of whether or not they end up married, I really hope this revival doesn't have them questioning whether they still want to be together. It took a ridiculously long time to get together in the first place, they were totally unable to communicate and act like adults once they finally did, and they broke up twice along the way. I personally think everything we saw of their relationship pointed to how incompatible, unhappy and horribly ill-suited they are as a romantic couple, though that's clearly a very unpopular opinion. I get that the writers will almost certainly make them 'endgame', though, so I hope that we can at least see a slightly more happy and functional relationship this time around so that those of us who dislike L/L can feel at least a little like the two of them together is a happy ending rather a depressing one. And the idea of them still unsure of how they feel or how deep a commitment they want to make to each other after all these years is just so pitiful----I REALLY hope Lorelai and/or Luke is having a more general existential crisis that naturally spills into other areas of their life, not specific doubts about whether they want to be with each other after all these years. Some of the reviews have me hopeful, but the ones that state/imply how the characters seem frozen in time and are still having the same problems as they did when we last saw them have me worried that LL angst is going to annoy both shippers and non-shippers alike! On the bright side, I'm excited to see Paris and agree with others that the spoilers about Logan and Rory's not-quite-above-board sexcapades might set up a much-needed wakeup call for Rory about the choices she makes or at least points to the fact that Rogan probably isn't endgame for reasons others have pointed out.

Right, I'm aware that there's more than one type of journalism. But Rory had specifically indicated on at least a couple of occasions that she wants to be a foreign correspondent, and the job she took at the end of the series was to cover Obama's campaign, so that's the type of 'politics/controversy/tons of travel/etc.' journalism I was referring to in my post and which I think she was poorly suited for.

Exactly! And my UO is that this whole issue and how it was (or, more accurately, wasn't) handled on the show bugs me a lot more than the question which of her men she did/should/will end up with :) Even as early as S1, and certainly S2 and beyond, there were just so many signs that Rory wasn't well-suited to be an international correspondent. And almost none of the reasons why are meant as an insult---it's just a matter of which path I see her as the right fit for, and, like Mitchum, I don't think journalism is what Rory was meant to pursue. She's naturally introverted, she hates conflict, criticism, controversy and stirring things up, she loves consistency and stability and routine, she freaks out when people are mad at her, she's mostly a homebody, and she always seemed FAR more genuinely excited and passionate about novels and fiction than she did about journalism, politics, social issues etc., at least to me. Honestly, you could make the argument that she's the Gilmore LEAST cut out for that particular career! Maybe she'll end up doing book reviews for the Stars Hollow Gazette, which would take into account her passion for fiction and her love for being close to home. That or maybe a fact checker or copyeditor are the only types of newspaper work I can see Rory genuinely loving and doing well. Again, a lot of the above is actually why I relate to Rory, so I don't mean it as a put down. I just think that a story about how her lifelong plan and dream turned out NOT to be what she's meant to do with her life would have been a lot more relatable and interesting (at least to me!) than the storylines we actually got for her in S5-S7. It would have been fun to see her have to figure herself out and redefine herself, experimenting with different majors and jobs, etc. And it would have been made for a more proactive character rather than just watching her drift along aimlessly with the DAR, Life and Death Brigade etc. and reacting to whatever lame turns her love life took in a particular week :)

YES. This. This is why, while I've grown to like and appreciate Piper a lot more, I still can't love her quite as unreservedly as I do the others. It's just a personal preference thing---as much as I relate to emotional, sensitive, anxious introverts (I am one!), I tend to love more enthusiastic, spirited, generally positive characters who try to embrace life, and Piper...isn't like that :) Which is fine, and I'm often not either, but she was such a drag to watch sometimes. And she was very snippy and impatient with her sisters' issues sometimes, which is fine, but then don't expect sympathy when you whine for the 12 zillionth time about not liking being a witch, being constantly upset with Leo AND being constantly upset without Leo, etc. And while she did become more angry, harsh, impatient and unpleasant after Prue's death, I've found myself developing the UO that she actually bothers me a little more in S2/S3. In later seasons, she at least had more valid reasons for being as moody and downbeat as she often was: Prue's death, worries about the safety and evilness of her child, etc. In S2/S3, she never stopped whining and bitching over comparatively minor stuff like whether she should be with Leo or Dan (which, okay, so both of these attractive, kindhearted guys are dying to be with you---could you maybe stop bitching about this "problem" every single episode and sometimes while the sisters are trying desperately to save an innocent?!) and in S3 the 'wah, wah, why can't I have a more perfect dream wedding, I'm going on strike!' stuff drove me crazy. I mean, I really have come to like and sometimes even admire her, but I do wish they'd toned down those facets of her character and at least had the actress smile a bit more and deliver some of her lines with less of a bitter bite :)

I'm seriously stunned by how much I loved the understandably unpopular S6 this last time around. There are still individual storylines, episodes, character choices etc. I dislike, but overall I found it so engaging and enjoyable. i'm a sucker for time travel storylines---even when they're not done all that well :) I love seeing Piper as a mom to Wyatt this season and her eventual relationship with Chris touches me more than I'd expected it to. Chris in general adds snark and energy, and while I get why many dislike the character, he just really appeals to me for some reason. And I've probably detailed why in another thread, but I think S6 is my very favorite season for Paige. I still don't like Phoebe or her hair all that much this season, but she was the open, charming, vibrant, compassionate Phoebe I used to love at least a LITTLE more often than I'd remembered, and I agree with whoever noted here or on another thread that her empath power was an at least somewhat amusing and interesting idea. I came away thinking that S6 has more episodes I'd rewatch over and over than the much more popular S5 does, actually---Forget Me Not, The Power of Three Blondes (yes, I know this is objectively not a good episode, but I adore it for some bizarre reason!), Soul Survivor, Sword and the City, Chris-Crossed, Witchstock, Witch Wars and both parts of It's a Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad World...and I have terrible taste, but at least this is the right thread to admit that ;) It's funny, because back when Charmed first aired, I remember LOVING S6; it's when my younger self became truly obsessed with the show. I then was disappointed when I watched it again, but apparently now I'm back to loving it. If my opinions of nearly every aspect of this show keep becoming more and more positive, maybe one day I'll even find myself with the ultimate UO of liking Billie and Christie. But I wouldn't hold your breath ;)

Definitely Paige! I can honestly say that the discussion and analysis on the threads here helped me to understand and appreciate her so much more than ever before, and now it's even to the point where I find myself missing her during the Prue seasons (and this is coming from someone who loves Prue as well!) I've recently come to appreciate Piper more. Her snippiness, complaining and negativity still grate on me sometimes, but she's a much better and more multi-dimensional character than I've sometimes given her credit for. I especially enjoy her as a sister and a mom---for me her relationship with Leo is tiresome and brings out the least likable sides of the character, but that's kind of a UO :) To broaden Blandings' great question a bit: Which seasons do you now love either more or less than you used to? I'm kind of stunned by just how much I enjoyed S6 during my most recent rewatch. I dislike S8 less than I used to---fast forwarding through all things Billie and Christie works wonders :) I used to think of S3 as my my very favorite and now maybe love it a little less than I used to...? Maybe my expectations of it or too high or, more likely, I just have to be in a certain mood to enjoy Cole and the Phoebe/Cole storyline. S1 is a season I'll always think of as a sentimental favorite and I do really like it, but I have to admit that VERY few of my all-time favorite episodes are in that first season, and it always feel a little clunkier and more dated than I expect it to be.

Even as someone who is very much NOT a Dean fan, ITA with this! TDDR may be the episode I've done the most radical turnaround on; it was always an episode I remember disliking intensely, but much to my happy surprise, once I finally gave it another chance I realized that it's definitely one of my favorites of S1. I think this episode may have my favorite Luke moments of the series, the L/L dynamic is at its best for me, and I actually found the Rory/Dean conflict relatable and kind of interesting. I was a fairly Rory-ish teen, and I could see my adolescent self being initially put off by Dean's comments and worried about his general view and expectations of women. Ultimately, like you, I ended up feeling like Dean was being judged way too harshly for essentially saying that it's nice IF some women want to be homemakers; that that choice isn't in and of itself 'bad' in any way. He actually did try to clarify that he wasn't saying all women SHOULD choose that route and, even as a Dean Disliker, I'll freely admit that he seemed to admire Rory's lofty academic and professional ambitions. And you are so right about Lorelai and Rory being closed minded and judgmental, especially when they're together. They're actually very much like Emily in that regard---they just usually happen to be closed minded and judgmental about different things. (Like perceived coolness and musical preferences and just generally not having the "right" tastes, interests and viewpoints!) I still really like Lorelai despite her many (many, many, many, MANY!) flaws and love Rory despite hers (though I agree she makes it harder to maintain that love in later seasons!), and their relationship with each other is the heart and soul of the show for me. But even I can admit that as a duo they really do have this cliquey, judgy vibe at times, like two preteens giggling in the cafeteria about just how uncool non-them people are. You see it a lot at town meetings/events and often when they're around one or the other's current significant other. It reminds me of a line I read in a review of the revival---though rest assured it's not spoilery AT ALL, just a very general commentary about the series---about how throughout the show it was always hard to determine whether we're supposed to note how narcissistic, judgmental and even carelessly cruel the characters can be, or whether we're supposed to find their flaws more endearing than egregious. (That is a horribly butchered paraphrase of the the reviewer's comment, but hopefully you guys get the gist!) My own view is that AS-P has a tendency to overly exaggerate most of her characters' flaws because she thinks it makes for more vibrant, memorable characters and comedic/dramatic scenes, often not realizing that we come away thinking that said characters behaved pretty shabbily. Like she's so focused on making an individual scene and moment more funny/dramatic/cute/clever/whatever the case may be that she loses sight of how her characters end up perceived in the big picture. Whenever we do our lists of favorite episodes, I find that more and more of mine come from the first three seasons, especially seasons 2 or 3. It's sad how few episodes I'd really miss if later seasons, especially S5 and S6, were magically erased :)

So I don't love S1 quite as much as some fans do (it's gone up in my estimation, but I still find it too cutesy, a little too heavy-handed, etc.) and would rank it below S2 and S3 on my list of my favorite seasons, but I realized while reading the above quoted sentence that I totally agree with it :) Rory and Luke in particular were BY FAR most lovable and interesting to me in that first season, and I do think that overall Richard and Emily were at their most nuanced and likable/sympathetic then too. I'm at the table of people who thinks this as well. Even *I* mostly like Luke in S1, and those who have been around a little while know that I have major issues with him overall :) The acting and writing combined to exaggerate his temper issues and bitterness post-S1, often making him seem (to me) like an utterly unpleasant killjoy at best and a nasty brute at worst. I'm realizing as I type this that I actually like Luke more in S7 than in nearly any post-S1 season. At least I'm in the right thread :) I go back and forth on Logan a ton, though even during stages when I enjoy Logan and Rory/Logan as a pairing, I objectively agree with much of the criticism tossed his way :) And yeah, I just never saw Rory/Logan as 'together forever' (or even still in touch after all these years), and I'm dreading our (hopefully limited?!) time with the Life and Death Brigade. The most awesome thing about this thread for me has been finding out that this opinion is so much more popular than I ever would have thought!