amensisterfriend

Ha---IMO, this is the beauty of AS-P's work: it's good enough to generate interest and investment in these characters and their stories while disappointing enough to motivate the fanbase to attempt to fix the many missteps :)

Can we count S7 as a middle season?! I'm asking because I've recently been rewatching some random episodes and am surprised by just how much of S7 I'm loving, especially the parts that don't focus too heavily on Kara. Descent is one of my five favorite episodes of the whole series. The more I rewatch, the more I'm torn on Clark/Chloe. On one hand, they still touch my heart and I agree with most of the reasons that people wanted them together. On the other, it's hard to get past how many times Clark's choices made it pretty clear that his romantic feelings for her just didn't compare to what he felt for Lana (and later Lois, at least in theory!), so I would always have felt like there was something of an imbalance there, with Chloe's feelings always seeming stronger than Clark's. Plus, I grew to really like Chloe and Oliver. I don't know whether or not that's unpopular :) And I will always like Smallville/Justin Hartley's Oliver far more than Arrow/Stephen Amell's Oliver, which I'm pretty sure IS very unpopular! Lana is too flatly perfect a character for me, and I really wish they'd given her some clear and relatable flaws and just a little more personality in general, but I still prefer her to Lois. And while I didn't ship Clana for the most part, I can't help but feel like the writing and acting combined to make Clark seem like he was much more in love with Lana than he was with Lois. Come to think of it, they never sold me on Lois being truly in live with Clark, either. I know we're not supposed to perceive it that way, but I couldn't help it. For all the Smallville writers did wrong, I will be always grateful to them (and Michael Rosenbaum) for giving us this version of Lex, who remains one of the most compelling, memorable and just entertaining TV characters I've ever seen. And I'll cap this off with the UO that I prefer Clark's frenemyship to any of Clark's romances. I found Clark vastly more interesting around Lex than pretty much anyone else.

I was thinking about why I love and relate to Chloe so much. I actually get the criticism that she could sometimes be written as too much of the 'plucky fan favorite' and all that, but I adore her...and not just because she was the comparatively nerdy and geeky one out of the show's main young female characters (Lana, Chloe, Lois), although, let's be real, I do tend to relate all too well to the nerdy and geeky types :) But unlike Lana (who I swear I WANT to find relatable flaws in but just usually see as a dully perfect princess) and Lois (the classic 'cool girl', super confident, sexually liberated and sassy) I actually feel like Chloe really did have salient human flaws and vulnerabilities: impulsiveness, a tendency to act based on her personal feelings rather than a completely fair notion of right and wrong, a need to know things to the point where she crosses boundaries and disregards people's requests for privacy, and sometimes an inability control her emotions, whether it's jealousy, anger, sadness, passion, etc. So I don't buy into the idea that she was too perfect a character---I actually see her as the most clearly flawed of the show's main characters, other than the ones who are supposed to be villains, of course :) I grew to really like Chloe with Oliver but still have a soft spot for her dynamic with Clark. My favorite seasons for Chloe's character are actually S3 and S5---which, not coincidentally, are among my favorite seasons of the show :)

I know plenty of young fans who love LL and plenty of older fans who don't---I really don't think age has much to do with which relationships people feel most invested in. I also don't think the fact that LL are married now would result in fewer fanfics. I personally think there are always plenty of stories left to tell, even/especially about married couples!

I really loved that, HeySandyStrange, and tried to explain why in the short but glowing review I left on the website :) I'm already excited to read the rest! You guys are inspiring me to try to write about Rory putting herself on the road to redemption. Don't worry---it won't be nearly as heavy or preachy as it sounds :) It will be the most purely selfish piece ever, written primarily so that I can come to terms with this character's many missteps and try to love her again!

I'm surprised by how many of us seem to be Team Fall! :) It was actually my favorite by a REALLY wide margin. I'm pretty sure Winter gets my silver medal. When I first watched this, I was convinced Summer was the nadir of the series, but now I'm thinking it's in a tight battle with Spring for that bottom spot. As people have pointed out here, all the seasons had some really good things about them...and some things that were not really good at all :) What's the one scene/storyline you'd have removed from each of the four seasons if you could?! I sense many of us would vote to remove most of that interminable musical from Summer :) And, on a brighter note, what were your very favorite scenes from each of the four?

I'll go against 16 and 22 too, and the next round is open! We're still voting against two :) 5. Piper/Awakened/A terminal disease, Oroya Fever 6. Phoebe/Morality Bites/ Incinerated in the future for killing Cal Greene 7. Piper/Coyote Piper/Killed (stabbed) by Prue in order to get a spirit out of her body 9. Prue/All Hell Breaks Loose/ Blasted through a wall by Shax 10. Piper/Saving Private Leo/Piper was stabbed by Leo's ex Army buddies, then with the help of Phoebe and Paige, she recited the ghost vanquishing spell 17. Paige/Soul Survivor/She signed a pact to trade her soul for an innocent's 21. Phoebe/I Dream of Phoebe/A demon wished on a genie for the Charmed Ones to die 23. Paige/Styx Feet Under/In a change of events, she was killed by a demon 24. Piper/Someone to Witch Over Me/Killed by a demon 25. Phoebe/Someone to Witch Over Me/ Killed by a Celerity Demon 27. Piper/Seven Year Witch/Put in a coma by a group of demons 29. Phoebe/Kill Billie 2/ Killed after the manor exploded

So, um, maybe it was Marty in the wookie costume and he turns out to be the father of Rory's child?! Straw grasping is one of my favorite activities :)

Junie, I just read, loved and reviewed your latest gem. I loved every bit of it...particularly the jaw-dropping ending! And if we could change our screen names here, mine would now be UnmatchedSockintheDrawer.

I really hope you do! For what it's worth, I think your idea sounds fantastic. Can we have a link?! I'd love to read it. First of all, this site's quote function officially hates me. More importantly, I really love your idea. This revival made me more interested in Dean than I had been since...well, ever :) And I adore the prospect of he and Jess putting aside their former grudges to bond together on how to get over the woman they both considered their first love. I'd offer to co-write, but let's be real, I'll probably mess it up ;)

I've gone from somewhat ambivalent about this show to flat out loving it. A lot f shows get worse for me with repeated viewing, but this one somehow gt better. A few UOs: 1. I've actually shocked myself by how much more I've come to like Inara, and I can even see more of a connection between her and Mal. I still don't like how Joss wrote the whole idea of her profession or Mal's reaction to it, but once I fanwank that in my head, I like her/them much more than I used to! 2. I've come to adore her too, and I don't see her as a Mary Sue. 3. I still prefer the Train Job to the Serenity pilot for some reason. Serenity (not referring to the film, of course) may actually be my personal least favorite episode of the series. 4. If I had to pick just one favorite character, I think it would still be the not-especially-popular Simon :) River is now surprisingly near the top of that list, though. 5. Even Simon/Kaylee as a potential pairing works a lot better for me than it used to. I am getting so soft in my old age. 6. It still irks me that Zoe calls Mal "sir." I get that it's a holdover from their war days and shows that that period of their lives will always be with them and all that, but it still makes me cringe a little. 7. It's true that Mal is much more the 'anti-hero' than a hero and very flawed, but I don't find him nearly as terrible a human being as many people (often on other sites, not this one) seem to find him. I've come to enjoy him and even root for ol' Captain Tightpants. 8. I don't think Jayne's hat is that ugly or goofy. Sadly, I've seen much, much worse!

It does seem to be an unpopular opinion, but as I rambled about above, it's one that I share :) I'll be even more unpopular and add that I think it's better than S5 as well! And much better than the revival. I've long thought S7 was underrated, and even a lot of what I don't like about it can be attributed to the fact that DR was stuck cleaning up quite a mess that he inherited from ASP. But I thought S7 had warmth, charm and a knack for making many of the characters more likable to me again. And now I have a feeling I might appreciate S7 more than ever. Awww...I love that we agree on so much and am more than fine with not agreeing about this one thing. It keeps things interesting, and I would never expect most GG fans to agree with me about the lead couple being so lacking in chemistry :) I do agree with you that they had better chemistry in S1 than any subsequent season! See, we always find common ground :)

Chemistry is such a nebulous, subjective, indefinable thing, but whatever you see between DS and LG, I see it too. They always sort of lit up around each other and seemed so genuinely happy and themselves. And I honestly think LG and SP have less chemistry than almost any onscreen couple I can think of. But again---it's subjective :) Am I the only one weird enough to wonder if their former chemistry stemmed at least in part from their real life romance while their current lack thereof--and lack of shared scenes, for that matter---is due partly to the fact that they're now real life exes rather than just fictional ones?! Speaking of chemistry, another UO is that I thought Logan and Rory had more of it this revival than they did during the original series. It takes more than chemistry for me to want a couple together, and in this case their sordid circumstances and my ambivalence about who each is around the other was more than enough to have me hoping they would split up. But from a purely chemistry/connection perspective, I felt a much more powerful pull and indefinable IT between them than ever before. If it makes you guys feel better, I kind of hate myself for feeling that way! I've always held the very unpopular opinion that Alexis Bledel, while probably not a great actress in general, was the perfect fit for Rory. And I actually still think that even after the revival. There's something about her overall presence that fits perfectly with the lost, drifting, perpetually confused, out of touch and oblivious young woman this revival wrote her to be. There was this air of sad wistfulness in her scene with Dean and her final scenes with Logan that I thought really worked, and I still always like her mother/daughter rapport with LG no matter how messed up their characters happen to be at the time. And, as noted above, she sold me on a real chemistry with Logan that I previously hadn't seen her show with any love interest other than Jess/Milo (who she was dating at the time). It's true that a lot of the character's real emotions and motivations weren't clear, but I blame the writing for that more than I blame AB.

(Moved from another thread because my opinions about SP are very unpopular!) I've thought about this a lot. As much as I blame the writing for a good portion of what I don't like about Luke, SP's performance has never worked for me. He's written to be a cranky killjoy too much of the time anyway, but to me SP often takes it a step or 10 too far and plays Luke like a temperamental oaf who has a mood disorder or anger management problem. His line deliveries, facial expressions and even body language often make Luke come off more hostile and belligerent than he's probably supposed to. (Again, I know most disagree---this is just the way I see it even when I've tried not to!) It's a big part of what's prevented me from getting on board with Luke/Lorelai as a couple, because some of what is probably supposed to come across as mildly amused exasperation and good-natured curmudgeonly complaining reads as him being genuinely, thoroughly annoyed and even angry with Lorelai way too much of the time. It leaves me wondering why he would want to be with someone who ticks him off so mightily such a high percentage of the time and why she would want to be with someone so joyless and irritated with every aspect of...well, of pretty much everything. Add in the fact that I don't find SP physically attractive or appealing on any level and that I see him as having pitifully little chemistry with LG past the first season, and I, too, start to think that I could have liked Luke and Luke/Lorelai more if the casting had been different. Of course, some not-so-minor tweaks to the writing would have helped as well :) I feel like I could have dated Jason for at least a short time, who is definitely weird but in ways that mesh well with my own quirks (for example, the separate bedroom thing works very well for this space-needing insomniac!), and an age-appropriate Brian sounds like a guy I'd love to be with as well. Beyond that, though, I find the primary love interests on this show surprisingly unlikable. Even the ones I enjoy watching from the comfort of my couch are not guys I'd want to have a romantic relationship with in real life. And I really am not all that picky :) I just think AS-P writes many male characters and romantic relationships in a way that really turns me off.

I think I hate Billie even more than Christie too. Billie was in more scenes, thus giving my hatred more of an opportunity to grow :) So I was rewatching S4 (my all-time favorite---and, yeah, I probably feel that way about most seasons I rewatch, but with S4 I really mean it! ;) Seriously, unless 1) I really need a Prue fix and 2) I'm going through a fairly rare phase where I'm really not in the mood to see Cole on my screen, S4 is the definite high point of the series for me. I'm not sure how unpopular that is....? I remember many fans not liking it when it came out, but maybe opinions changed once people got used to Prue no longer being on the show. And I also think S4, while often emotional, is less bleakly dark and more sneakily funny and fun than it's given credit for. Anyway, while binge watching S4 I'm developing the UO that Paige and Phoebe could have had my favorite sister relationship of the series, especially if they had left Phoebe as more of the Original Recipe Phoebe from S1-S4/S5ish who I loved beyond reason. They have a lot of similarities that enable them to really get each other and see each other's perspectives: both are restless souls, searchers with a rebellious past they're trying to make up for*, both get super enthusiastic about certain things, both love adventure and new experiences, both are slightly off-the-beaten-path free spirits, both follow their instincts/intuition and are equally rewarded and punished for doing so. I'm also noticing some differences that make for some complementary differences and interesting contrasts when they interact as both sisters and co-witches. Phoebe is more extroverted (Paige is kind of equally introverted and extroverted IMO), Phoebe is more of a sunny and (sometimes too?!) open and trusting optimist while Paige is more of a slightly emotionally guarded realist/pragmatist/semi-cynic, Paige is more grounded and logical, Paige is more blunt/tactless/direct and openly snarky, Phoebe is more affectionate and less intent on doing things without her sisters, Phoebe is more of a slightly sappy sentimentalist who loves stuff like old classic movies while Paige is more focused on reality and the present. Again, all of the above applies to Phoebe as I saw her from S1-S4/S5. The less said about the blandification and less likable qualities of Later Seasons Phoebe, the better for my blood pressure ;) * Speaking of the rebellious past thing...other than hooking up with a lot of guys, I could never quite buy that Phoebe had one of note. I get that we were supposed to take it as canon that she did, but Alyssa Milano played Phoebe with such sunny, open and at times borderline naive sweetness that made her supposedly super bad past hard for me to wrap my mind around. Especially since all we REALLY know is that she dated a lot, had trouble committing to either school or one job (VERY common for that age!) and once shoplifted a pair of shoes. An imperfect past to be sure, but not exactly as uniquely dark as the show occasionally made it out to be :) Now, maybe this is because Rose McGowan has a certain edge about her, but I could much more easily buy Paige as a reformed 'bad girl.' And Prue, for that matter, but that may be because of how Shannen D comes across on screen (and off!) to me.

It's kind of amazing how much of this revival would have been easier for me to swallow if it had supposedly taken place about two years after the show ended rather than 10!

5. Piper/Awakened/A terminal disease, Oroya Fever 6. Phoebe/Morality Bites/ Incinerated in the future for killing Cal Greene 7. Piper/Coyote Piper/Killed (stabbed) by Prue in order to get a spirit out of her body 9. Prue/All Hell Breaks Loose/ Blasted through a wall by Shax 10. Piper/Saving Private Leo/Piper was stabbed by Leo's ex Army buddies, then with the help of Phoebe and Paige, she recited the ghost vanquishing spell 16. Piper/I Dream of Pheobe/A demon wished on a genie for her to die 17. Paige/Soul Survivor/She signed a pact to trade her soul for an innocent's 21. Phoebe/I Dream of Phoebe/A demon wished on a genie for the Charmed Ones to die 22. Piper/Styx Feet Under/The Angel Of Death killed her and gave her the job of collecting souls 23. Paige/Styx Feet Under/In a change of events, she was killed by a demon 24. Piper/Someone to Witch Over Me/Killed by a demon 25. Phoebe/Someone to Witch Over Me/ Killed by a Celerity Demon 27. Piper/Seven Year Witch/Put in a coma by a group of demons 29. Phoebe/Kill Billie 2/ Killed after the manor exploded 1, 12 and 20 are gone, and the next round is open! We're down to voting against just TWO :)

It's still so strange and baffling to me that these actors have so little chemistry. (IMO--obviously!) You mention cringing, and that looks like exactly what LG and SP do when they have to come within three feet of each other. They can barely pull off a chaste, blink-and-you-miss-it peck convincingly, let alone a 'passionate' interlude. I get that that's not the important facet of a relationship---but for me it's not like they have much of an emotional or intellectual connection and compatibility either, so the seeming lack of attraction is even more glaring somehow. If there were steamier scenes (and, as others have said, one is never quite sure whether SP is a reliable source!), I'd be interested in knowing why they got cut.

Ha! Well, if said adult is single and available (like, to be fair, Lorelai's beaux tended to be when she got together with them), Rory probably won't be interested anyway ;)

Wonderful turn of phrase, and I totally agree. I can actually buy into the idea that Rory and Logan do love each other, but ultimately...so what?! They still don't bring out each other's best selves, they're each other's excuse to cling to the past in lieu of facing the future, and whatever connection they have now is built on a foundation of deceit. (I'd mention the pain that their affair could bring to many other people, but it's not like Logan or Rory has ever been concerned about that sort of thing, so why bother?!) Logan, while willing to drunkenly jump off a cliff, still can't take the risk of breaking free of his family. Rory likes that he makes her smile, reminisce on comparatively better times and just generally feel things at a time when she's hollow and lost, but ultimately she always seems to make terrible choices while he's in her life. (NOT blaming him for that, by the way---I'm just saying that their dynamic doesn't bring out her best self, and that self is someone who Rory needs to rediscover and redefine on her own!) I've always had a personal pet peeve about how often this show has trotted out pregnancy as a plot device throughout the series, and I'm also really uncomfortable with the idea that having a kid will bring stability and happiness to someone who's not already in possession of it---in my experience, kids can cause a whole lot of chaos too, and the best parents are usually those who are already in a decent place psychologically BEFORE they have a child, not those who rely on the kids to turn them into better people :) That said, I like the interpretation some have offered here---that the pregnancy isn't just ASP's obsession with bringing things "full circle" whether or not they do a disservice to characters, themes and storylines but, for Rory, a sign that she's finally leaving the past behind and focusing on the future---a future that will include paying attention to the needs and desires of someone other than herself :)

http://www.hypable.com/gilmore-girls-a-year-in-the-life-heartbreak/ A take from someone who found the revival forced her to rethink the series overall. This resonated with me and likely will for a few others who were disappointed by Rory's revival storyline, though I totally understand that many will disagree!

Did the revival inspire a lot of new fanfic?! I'm now tempted to write a satirical piece on Rory's exes gathering together for an informal support group and advice on moving on ;) And one silver lining to come of Rory showing no romantic interest in Jess and Paris likely divorcing Doyle: My super shameful crackship, Paris/Jess, might just set sail again, if only in my bizarre mind :) I would also love to write a fic about Rory redefining and rediscovering herself both professionally and personally---and doing so without any current love interest :)

Exactly! And, not that ASP has been overly concerned with giving us a realistic depiction of finances and socioeconomic class over the years (I would insert a 'massive understatement' emoticon here if one existed!), but most novel writers have to rely on another job and source of income, so choosing one wouldn't preclude continuing with the other. HOW DARE YOU?! ;) Now I need even more therapy for the images this has lodged in my brain. Seriously, I always liked the idea of Rory being with a teacher/professor type as well :)

Paris' reaction actually rang true for me. It was a little extreme, but what about Paris isn't?! I've been out of high school longer than Paris has been and recently had to see a bunch of high school classmates for the first time. (Which...*shudder* They should have offered free therapy in lieu of a gift bag as we exited, because that was highly traumatic!) Anyway, I'm not going through a divorce or currently quite as vulnerable as Paris is, and even for me it brought back a ton of old feelings and insecurities and, honestly, some people even reverted back to high school behavior. I'm still clinging to the increasingly faint hope that Rory will eventually become a teacher---and not because she feels it's a fallback option that she now has to resort to, but because she realizes that it's really what she wants and is well-suited to do. Maybe she could even consult Max Medina on the pros and cons of that career path. While I wasn't crazy about Max/Lorelai, for some reason I felt Rory was more authentically connected to Max than any of Lorelai's other love interests, and I'd love to see one more scene with them.

As you can see on this thread and others, you're definitely not alone here---more than a few of us feel LL are depressingly devoid of joy, connection, communication, chemistry and compatibility and that, despite a few sweet scenes at the end, there was sadly little indication that they had grown individually or as a couple since we saw them last. Luke is still relentlessly negative and unpleasant, and IMO SP still delivers his lines like he's genuinely angry and perpetually annoyed with Lorelai rather than a lovable curmudgeon who's just a little cranky in general. Lorelai is still immature and seems unsure about every aspect of their relationship, less a woman in love than one who's kind of shrugged and decided to settle. (Again, just my opinions/impressions and obviously not ones that we're supposed to have!) Don't get me wrong---even as a non-LL shipper, I liked their wedding scenes taken in isolation---I just don't feel like they were the well-earned culmination of a satisfying LL arc. Exactly! And that's a key problem with the revival in general for me: for all the time we spent with some of these characters, there was so little insight into their actual feelings, thoughts and motivations. Lorelai and Rory babble so much but say so very little. We spent a lot of screentime with Logan (too much for this particular viewer!) yet key issues about his feelings, opinions and general situation remained totally unanswered. (I found it helpful to read MC's take in a Time article that's now posted in the media thread and, sadly, learned more about how we were probably supposed to perceive the Logan/Rory thing from those brief replies than from six hours of this revival!) I don't need or want everything explicitly spelled out, but there's a difference between emotional complexity/deliberately intriguing ambiguity and just sloppy storytelling, and for me this revival contained too much of the latter. I already lost the quote---which might be a blessing since I can never quite master this site's quote function anyway!---but I love what someone said about Rory consistently being someone who cares about the very few people she's close to but is totally oblivious and indifferent to the feelings of people in general. (Most notably, but not solely, Lindsay, Shane, Odette, etc. ) And it makes so much sense, because Rory was raised to rely on, care about and consider very, very few people. The town at large may have adored her, but Rory was fine gracing them with polite smiles and her occasional presence while gently mocking them from afar---she wasn't really PART of any real group/community in SH, Chilton, or even Yale (let's be real, those were Logan's friends, and she was just drifting along for the ride) and was always so shielded from adversity and consequences that she's never had to consider the feelings of people outside of her very small, select circle. So the more I think of Rory's storylines in the revival, the more I think it makes a depressing sort of sense...but that doesn't mean I especially enjoyed watching it :)