slothgirl

Intersting article in Smithsonian about a dentist with his own hypothesis (based on historical descriptions given by Inuit about the condition of the men) about what the crew may have died from: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/dentist-weighs-in-what-really-doomed-the-franklin-expedition-180964594/https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/dentist-weighs-in-what-really-doomed-the-franklin-expedition-180964594/

I don't remember who the crewman who fell off the rigging was, but IRL, Hartnell's brother died long before then. One of the captains makes reference to the 3 guys buried on Beechey in some episode when he talks about remembering their fallen comrades or some such thing. Crozier had told the men left back on the ships that if the ice melted, the ships were to sail to a certain point in the hopes of picking up the men on foot. Perhaps Crozier felt that getting to that meeting place would be easier and faster by sailing. Or even if they didn't go to the meeting point, they would get to civilization faster on water than by dragging all that stuff over rocks. That is why they used boats as sledges in these situations... they expected to actually get to water at some point. My memory is that Corzier told the guys left back that they would be the discoverers of the Northwest passage, which means he intended for them to continue the journey around King William Island, NOT backtrack the way they came. That woudl take them to the side of KWI that the guys on foot had gone to, I think... I'm fuzzy on the geography I seem to recall them saying something about the lemon juice in an early episode when that guy vomits blood everywhere, and they are so worried that it might be scurvy. So they clearly didn't have it completely handled and it was always a concern. I posted an interesting article to the "real life" thread detailing the hypothesis of a dentist.

I think it is meant to be all of those things plus the fear that everyone feels and what it makes them do It was the guy that got lashed with Hickey and who decided to use the experience to become a better, and more loyal teammate. IRL, there were 2 brothers on the expedition and one of them died earlier than this story starts. That man was one of the 3 crew members whose body was buried on Beechey Island and was actually found. Lovable fool Goodsir probably hid in his own tent. After all, he probably thought he was just hiding from Tuunbaq and his tent had all that heavy furniture they were dragging over rocks. (seriously... these guys are explorers, but their glamping instead of camping?????) Blankey tied them around himself with the rope so to cause problems for Tuunbaq once he tried to eat him. Even if it doesn't tear up Tuunbaq's mouth the chew him, or his thraot to swallow him, it will be hell moving through his digestive system. They cut straight from Lady Jane's face, slowly panning down her face to her teeth and mouth as we see and hear her go from confident in her speech to doubting the effectiveness of her appeal. Then change to the remaining lower jaw of the headless guy If you look closely, it isn't just severed at the neck; you can see portions of the lower jaw with teeth. I'm sure there's metaphor and symbolism intended in the entire sequence. The entire episode is about losing hope and eating. i don't see how a couple of weeks without the tinned food would make much difference when they've been out there for years. One of the things that scurvy does is break down tissue of old wounds such as we saw with James' Chinese story bullet would opening. Perhaps Crozier has no old wounds, and that has given him an advantage. The symptom of feeling like you have broken glass in your muscles that Goodsir tells Billy about as he will die are what scurvy does, not lead poisening, which is more associated with mental changes and organ failure.

I think we are meant to assume that he lay down to die there. There's only 1 episode left to spell out the fate of all who remain, and what could they possibly do with the character that would provide anything more than the send off they just gave him? No, I think he;s out of it. Continuing his story doesn't make sense from a storytelling standpoint

What a heart-wrenching episode! Mr Goodsir being (for him) cold and unmoved by the potential slow death of Gibson. Then finding the ring when he goes to cut him up... and then I thought sure he'd killed himself in the tent. Thankfully no... although he might be better off if he did. Blankey being, to the end, the most bad-ass sailor to ever traverse the seas. Crozier... no words... just give JH the frickin' Emmy already. Crozier killing James out of mercy as an assisted suicide. Hickey giving Gibson a swifter, less agonizing death than he would have had, yet nothing merciful about it. John and Henry... I still don't quite know what their relationship was, and the beauty of it is that I don't need to. I got a father/son or mentor/mentee vibe rather than lovers until this last ep, but whatever it was (and I'm not looking to debate it) it was genuine love of 2 sensitive poetic souls. Did Hickey steal an officer's long coat? And why is that little turd not showing ANY signs of fatigue, illness, or even general wear & tear? When did they manage to nab Goodsir? Wasn't he hiding? So Tuunbaq exists to maintain the natural balance/order? That doesn't track with what we've been seeing so far. Why would "obeying" a human ever even be a consideration if that was the point? Why all the magic tricks stacking bodies and displaying heads? At least LS got her little statue figures carved. If Tuunbaq is still "hers", why do they need another shaman to go find him? They better do a better job in the last episode of making sense out of Tuunbaq, cause otherwise, he's just Deus Ex Machina in reverse and we could have done without him.

Huh? 100 years later was 1948. Am I just reading your post all wrong?

Crimes? Assaults? WTF? And she is "protecting her crew" Who's her crew? Can an NDA really prevent you from reporting a crime, especially when you are the victim? And why woud anyone agree to the NDA unless they are getting something in return? In another tweet from last year, she talked about never meeting Harvey Weinstein but being bullied by a powerful man at work. Did Glasburg keep someone in line and without him things are worse? (the text of that tweet is at the bottom of the article linked below) I wonder if the regression of Abby's character to near juvenile mannerisms was something the actress didn't want, but some "powerful man" insisted on the short little-goth-girl skirts, the strange little "hoppy" walk, and the high voice. I agree that her innuendo is just as bad as any false rumors being spread about her... maybe worse. In the articles, she's accused of becoming a diva on set and refusing to hear MH out on why he had to bring the dog back. She's accusing an unamed person (but who would we think it is other than Harmon?) of CRIMES, assault, whatever... This is gonna get uglier, I'm sure http://canoe.com/entertainment/celebrity/there-is-a-machine-keeping-me-silent-pauley-perrette-tweets-cryptic-messages-amid-drama-of-quitting-ncis

Somebody (or several somebodies) decided that the 2 of them would not be filming any scenes together. Whether it was Harmon, PP, producers, a combination, or whoever... THEY brought this into the public eye. I can respect MH and PP for not talking smack about the other to the press, but clearly the fans noticed the change,so for the show and everyone associated with it to continue to stick their fingers in their ears while singing "lalalalalalahappybirthdaytomela" is silly. Unless they expect the show to be ending soon or undergoing a major overhaul of cast and theme (spin-off by bringing in new cast and direction) they're going to need to address it. Everyone's talking about it. Viewers are tuning out. Feuds are almost always the responsibility of all parties and not just one. The blame may not be 50/50, but it's usually shared to SOME extent. The show should make a statement. SOMEONE should make a statement. I'd be ok if MH & PP issued a JOINT statement saying something along the lines of "Due to private conflicts on set, we decided that it was best for us to maintain separate shooting schedules. We apologize to the fans for any disruption this may have caused or if it affected enjoyment of our show. In retrospect, perhaps it was not handled as well as it could have been. We and everyone associated with the show wish each other and the NCIS team and fans all the best in the future and we are grateful for the opportunities NCIS have given us all" See? That's not so hard? I didn't even have to think that much about it, and I'm not a professional spokesperson for anything!

I disagree that racism never plays a part... yes, colonizers might always think they are superior. But they don't always treat the natives with the complete dismissal and outright barbarity that occurs when empires invade lands populated by people they consider barely-human "savages" or animals. The ease with which the Inuit are lumped together with a violent unnamed tribe thousands of miles away in Texas is a sign of that. I think further exploration of the subject though would be off topic for the thread, especially getting into other conquering cultures specifically.

Just as long as they don't use that cliffhanger as the spin-off point for season 2

Her other borther was her adopted brother that she was raised with

It's sad that many of the characters over the run of this show turned into parodies of the character... Abby, Gibbs, Tony, Kate. Palmer is one of the few that actually started as more of a parody and became MORE dimensional. I also think Tim did, but I know others find Tim lacking. (I've always liked him, and moreso as the series went on). Some of the characters that were developing in interesting ways got killed off. Dorny, Paula, the agent that Lee killed (but I'm pretty sure he was always there just to fullfill that plot development) and Diane, whose onagainoffagain relationship with Fornell was hilarious. I think we all enjoyed that poker game because it hearkened back to earlier seasons before Gibbs became so super-grim all the time. The banter has been sorely lacking and replaced by so much angst and soap-opera level drama. Seriously, the plots have been more outrageous than soap operas in the level of danger there people find themselves in. Working for NCIS is more dangerous than being an outed DEA agent in SA.

Since they never found the bodies of most of the crew, we can fantasize any outcome we want (except them returning home... our fantasies must include Britain never hearing from them again). Of course, no matter the outcome, they'd DEFINITELY all be dead NOW. ;) As to LS' community... I read somewhere that due to the scarcity and widely scattered nature of natural resources for food (especially in winter), the Inuit of this area typically lived in very small groups (<10). However, it also seems unlikely that anyone would actually go it completely alone, and the groups probably crossed paths from time to time. LS didn't look especially frightened at being turned out on her own in a place where we know a non-native couldn't survive on their own at all. The real tragedy is not in the ones who suffered for bragging rights or glory, but those who met this fate for mere employment or sustenance. I doubt they all signed on just for the whole "Northwest Passage" crap. Many probably got off one ship and signed on to whatever opportunity was next offered. It could even be that this was the bottom of the barrel as far as getting a gig if most sailors DIDN"T want it. Maybe the better sailing jobs were taken. Maybe because of risks this one paid more, so desperate men signed on. And then we have heard from the Marines that they were assigned to it.. they didn't even get a choice. I haven't noticed anyone on here saying we should be apologizing for our ancestors. There's a difference between recognizing the evils performed by invading cultures and feeling guilt or responsibility over it happening 100+ years ago before we were born. If you want to take your analogy to it's extreme, then even the Holocaust brought "benefits" in the knowledge of anatomy derived from the Nazi's horrific scientific experiments. That doesn't justify them. Even in the case of the "civilization" you speak of from the British and Roman empires, your view is automatically skewed by a bias towards the type of civilization that feels "advanced" to you based your own experience. Cultures and people negatively affected by those empires and colonization most likely view them and their "benefits" very differently. As for anyone apologizing for their history... the Japanese have, and their cultural values are quite different now from the mindset that led them commit atrocities in WWII. (Of course, it took a crippling defeat to achieve that) What I love about the way the imperial mindset is being portrayed here on the show is that we see how even the "good guys" operate from latent, subconscious racist cultural assumptions and ignorance, and how easily those underlying sentiments can become overt and dangerous when fear and/or manipulative influences take hold. THAT is what we can address in our current life and times. I can't do anything about what the British Empire (or the roman, or the slave trade of the Colonial South, or Columbus in the Americas, or anyone else) did in the past. I CAN recognize instances of subconscious racism today in myself and my culture (or my governmental processes). I can recognize that my subjective experience doesn't define "truth", and that my values for "civilization" aren't universal definitions. I feel that is the message of this show.

Did she ever tell him that she was his sister? I can't remember I'm really not ever interested in the family lives of these people except when it's Gibbs ex's. Unlike most everyone, I LOVED Diane. I found Fornells family to be more entertaining than Abby's, and he's only a guest character himself!

Thanks for clearing that up. The show does make reference to the men who died on Beechey, but I don't recall them using names in those conversations, and I never paid any attention to who they might have been

and badges. unless they didn't need no stinkin' badges Seriously though, Abby was under protection once they realized she was deliberately targeted. McGee was there partly in a capacity to protect as guard. A similar case could be made for Gibbs. Although they wouldn't have prevented her brothers from going in, since she seems to have been released from the hospital in unrealistically record time, maybe they didn't have time to get there.

I thought the only men whose bodies were ever recovered were found on Beechey Island which all happens before the start of this story. So the real question isn't why the others weren't portrayed on this show, but why Hartnell WAS.

A couple of days dealing with the potential loss of a dear friend is not what I'd call "abandonment". I can't imagine Delilah has no resources for help. It's not like she's never been alone with her own kids before and they knew before the twins were even born that she'd have to care for them while in a wheelchair. They would have been stupid not to have things set up so that she could do so. McGee isn't always able to get home. I admit I haven't watched consistently this season.. how old are the twins now? Because there's a lot of difference between a newborn and a toddler in the level of physical agility needed to care for them. I think it would be out of character for Delilah to do anything other than encourage Tim to stay at Abby's side if that's what he needed. I can't for a minute see her complaining that she is alone with her children and being disabled, it's just too much for her. I can't imagine her ever saying ANYTHING is too much for her just because she's paralyzed. They had her going out in the field on ops and stings for pete's sake. Whether you or I would accept it is irrelevant. It's completely in character for them all for this to be the way they acted, and IMO, it's in character for Delilah to be ok with it.

Did we mention that he is hot? ;)

I think we'll all just have to agree to disagree on this one. People usually have strongly held views on this type of thing as I've discovered through the years of being a woman with platonic male friends. I told guys up front that my best friend was a man and an ex-boyfriend. My intimate relationship with him was in the early 80's and brief. We were far too much alike to be a couple. We exacerbated each other's moodiness and other psycological "baggage" stuff. At this point , and for the last few DECADES, he's like a brother to me (and the thought of a sexual romance with him now carries the same "ick" factor that sleeping with a sibling would). If my friend was dying, my current SO would totally understand my need to be at the side of someone who's been my best friend since I was 25 (I am now almost 60). If he had a best friend that just happened to be female, I'd understand if he had to be there. If an opposite sex best friend was a problem, it would have been a problem all along, and I've never (in her all too brief appearances) gotten ANY sense that Delilah felt in any way threatened or insecure about Abby.. in fact, Abby was a huge help to her in the pregnancy. The primary objection to McG staying at Abby's side seems to be that she is the opposite sex.... which in MY world, is not a good reason. YMMV

That's what I thought too... she was holding him away, not relating to his heart as we think of it. Even if it was where his heart is, the whole "physical heart represents romance" thing is probably not a part of her culture. Not every culture associates the heart as a symbol of love or romance.. LIFE, maybe... if they understand anatomy enough, but not necessarily LOVE. And yeah... she didn't know what he was saying, but even if she was picking up some of it after all her time with English speakers, I think that she would have been even more "Seriously? Just stop, already!".

Probably a good thing he left NCIS... he would be dead by now. ;)

They had evidence that led them to him in the 1st place, so she probably figured they didn't need it anyway I was unclear on how much time had passed between the shooting and the big showdown... seems she got out of the hospital awfully fast. Where was her bullet wound? I hate the tv trope of people getting shot in the chest or especially the shoulder and then going on with life within a couple of days with their arm in a sling. I read an article years ago, written by a doctor with the premise that tv isn't violent enough. The real-life effects of the types of injuries that people get in tv shows are seriously minimized and unrealistic. (as is the full recovery from heroic resuscitation of people whose hearts have completely stopped.)

Exactly. They may be "good men" within the confines of their narrow experience, but the racism inherent in exploration and colonization lives in almost all of them. There's a reason Hickey mutilated the 2 crew members (beyond just that he is one sick nutjob) ... It served an important purpose in his plan: They've all heard tales of settlers (invaders) being attacked by natives in the US, so it's barely a leap for them to view the Inuit as no different from an Apache. He deliberately chooses the term "braves" when describing how many "Indians" might be coming to slaughter them. He is a conniving piece of shit sociopath, and I suspect he takes pleasure in killing. But if it had better served his purpose to kill the crew members in a bloodless fashion and hide the bodies, he would have done THAT. He needed to amp up the fear factor to get access to weapons. He played on both their fears and their deep racism. The entire expedition and crew is steeped in racist cultural mores, and as such, I sometimes find it hard to feel bad for ANY of them. Even at their best, they exploit people and resources rather than appreciate them. Goodsir proves the depth of it with every utterance in far more subtle but significant ways than the obvious things that other crew might say or do (such as the other doctor refusing to treat LS's father, and Franklin not wanting her on the ship). He is a good man, but it is so ingrained, he is oblivious to how even he is completely disrespectful. His need to convince her that his culture is something to see and strive for (when clearly, at least as presented here, it is HER culture that is more humanistically advanced) is sad but predictable. It's important to the presentation of the British Empire mindset that we have some characters that are "good men" and sympathetic, so that we see how deep racism, arrogance, hubris, and entitlement goes even in "good" people. For me, that is the point of the Goodsir character.

I think since the bodies of most of the men were never found, they can do pretty much whatever they want with their fates.