slothgirl

and gets the seal out, how? Cause the hole is the size of a seal snout, not the size of a seal body! I mean, I know you're right, I just can't picture what happens after the hunter stabs the seal down the hole. I guess they just have to keep it on the harpoon while they enlarge the hole? WHY on earth would LS have offered them anything at that point? Anyway, Goodsir DIDN"T kill them. He made them sick. We don't know if they would have died from what Goodsir did had Tuunbaq not come along and done the job. It's possible that he was only trying to weaken them for when Little and others came to rescue Crozier. So he isn't a murderer for killing them because he didn't kill them. And we don't know if he is an "attempted murderer" because we don't know if he intended to kill them or just substantially (and maybe temporarily) weaken them. Unless I am remembering wrong (which is possible.. the whole scene at the boat with Tuunbaq and folks puling chains and getting eaten and puking up their guts was pretty hectic and confusing) none of the crew at that place dies from food poisoning.. Tuunbaq gets them all. I agree.. I didn't think Crozier was frozen. He was fishing. I'm not sure where the idea comes from that it's only been 2 years when we see Crozier and the child. Yes, only 2 years passed when Crozier is outside the tent as the rescue team talks to the Inuit. But ANY amount of time could have passed when we come to that final tableau. It actually makes more sense to me that more years have subsequently passed since the brits came and failed to find him. It's his future in which he has fully assimilated. Maybe I missed something, but my impression as I was watching the final sequences was that even more time had passed, which is why he was able to hunt seals in the first place by then and why he has a child that isn't an infant or toddler. Trying to rationalize the child as someone else's or an orphan doesn't make sense to me.. it introduces an element that leaves too much unrelated. It makes more sense to me that it is his child and more years have passed when we come to that scene. I didn't get the impression that the tableau happens immediately after his fake-out with the rescue party (Although it does beg the question.. where's Mom? Maybe she has other responsibilities while he is fishing.. or she fishes a separate spot.)

yeah, but then we wouldn't have the unspoken "dumbass" to follow Crozier's comment. ;)

I was thinking that either A) He was making a space at the table for Crozier in his usual hamfisted way B) He was showing Crozier that there would consequences to the others if Crozier refused to eat Goodsir's flesh Rescued by who or what? What possible rescue could have appeared that wouldn't also result in bloodshed.. possibly innocent bloodshed, if the rescuers were Inuit? If you kill a murderer to protect likely victims (natives, or their own crew members that they are stalking), is it murder?

there is a scene in a previous episode where a group of Inuit discuss the fact that Tuunbaq restores the natural balance. In the past he has done this when there was an excess of caribou and another time with an excess of some other animal. At the moment, we have an excess of humans (and destructive ones at that) so it's Tuunbaq's purpose to eliminate some of them. I didn't find it dissapointing, so much as rushed. I would have liked a 2 hour finale (but not by adding another hour long episode.. I don't think I could have waited another week for the end!) I see what you did there. ;)

There seems to be some confusion as to whether the child is male or female. Posters have called the kid a son and a daughter. To me, it doesn't matter.. Crozier has a child. He is coompletely Aglook (sp?) now I too was sometimes bothered by Goodsir's doormat goody-goodyness. But he did develop over time into someone less deferential and at the end, vengeful. I understood him killing himself because he most likely assumed that Hickey would kill Crozier to eat him. So by offering himself as a meal, he could buy Crozier some time, which would benefit others besides just Crozier himself. I found the poison thing rather confusing though. How much poison could have found it's way into all his tissues if his blood stopped moving shortly after he ingested it, and while it WAS moving, it was flowing OUT of him? Was the poison designed to KILL the men who ate him or just make them ill enough to think twice about cannibalism (and again.. to buy Crozier time and make him the strongest person there). I also thought he had rubbed some sort of poison on his skin after washing himself. That would have been more effective as a delivery system to the cannibals. There's so much possible interpretations of the analogies and symbolism in this entire story. If he DID intend to kill the men who ingest him, he is in some ways the anti-Tuunbaq... he kills by being devoured after his soul has been lost to him, instead of taking souls while devouring. Or perhaps is is actually Tuunbaq 2.0... He is helping restore the natural balance by getting rid of some humans who are an abomination to the land. Tuunbaq the improved version who does not kill indiscriminately but by "assisting" demise of creatures through their own actions. Of all the death "dream sequences" his is the only one depicting only the perfection of the natural world with no humans. His images are of animal, vegetable, and mineral... The perfect spiral of a shell and the wonder of crystals. I never really liked the disjointed purpose of Tuunbaq. If he's primarily restoring the natural balance, what's with devouring souls? If he's deliberately devouring souls... why? And does that make him evil in some way? The scales of natural order are not good or evil.. by definition they are balance. I think devouring the souls was an unnecessary twist as was the weird magical ability to stack pieces of bodies. Or if Tuunbaq represents the worst of mankind, then it's not a force for balance. For me, this was the weakest part of the story... so much possibility in the character, and instead of leaving it somewhat vague and open to analysis with several potential "right" interpretations, they gave us conflicting information that makes all interpretations feel wrong. I think the offering of the tongue is not a guarantee that Tuunbaq will accept the offerer as shaman, even when LS or her father attempted it. It was probably a risky move that would always result in either death or success for the native shamans. In Hickey's case, Tuunbaq was all "Nope. Nope. SO much nope!". From that scene episodes ago where Tuunbaq brought LS a seal, it seems that the shaman is first chosen by Tuunbaq.. not the other way around. And that makes sense with the idea of Tuunbaq being a force for balance. There is no balance achieved if Hickey is his shaman. The balance comes in having a will that is different from Tuunbaq's as the shaman... ok.. maybe it does make sense that Tuunbaq is like an unruly toddler with body parts and vengeance. Ironically, Hickey wants to bond with the creature because he thinks he is it's equal, and yet he has the same colonialism mindset that governs the whole expedition and the British culture. In Hickey's mind, Tuunbaq is there for Hickey to use for his own gain, and he has no understanding, respect, or appreciation for the thing he seeks to "colonize". Or because once you've committed to suicide, you might as well go as quickly and painlessly as possible. Why would he willingly suffer from the poison if he was going to die at the end of it anyway? One of the articles I read talks about how the music changes over the course of the series. They also had a different "wind" for each episode. I've read quite a few in the last few days so I doubt I could find it again. As a side note, the composer died and the Marcus the show is dedicated to at the end is he.

I'm fairly sure I saw a hole... it was pretty small, so I was confused. That's why I figured he was fishing for fish not seals. Where I live, people ice fish on lakes in the winter and the holes are about the size of a post hole. No way you could get a seal through that hole. Another posted clarifies that they spear the seal when it pokes its nose up to breathe. The hole was less visible not only because of it's size, but because of the "snow" around its perimeter from the ice removed to make the hole

My take: Crozier describes in one episode how hard it is to learn to hunt food there. The natives spend years learning how to fish under the ice. So to me the last scene is saying that he has learned to do it and that one of the things involved is long periods of patient stillness. He has fully assimilated and this is now his home and culture. I like the idea of it transforming into one of the "tableau" from the stage productions. The beginning tableau is on stage in London glorifying expedition and the hubris of the Empire. This final one is the actual life in the land and conditions they think they are portraying in the first. Crozier appears in the first one and in the last one. The show is HIS journey from one to the other.

I decided I'm not up for watching the rebroadcast so soon... but I'm wondering about the Tuunbaq image. I keep getting the feeling that the face was meant to resemble Crozier's. It was definitely human and certainly didn't look like Hickey or anyone else. If somehow Tuunbaq represented an aspect of Crozier throughout, then that opens up so many interesting ideas. blah, blah, overeducated, blah ;)

I couldn't understand why there were 3 camps that Crozier and LS found. The one with the sick left behind. Another with with books and whatever strewn everywhere, and the last where Little is still alive with his face piercings. How did they end up in 3 camps (not including Hickey's) instead of 2?

Great review that also cleared up a few things for me: https://tv.avclub.com/for-its-masterful-final-act-the-terror-stares-death-in-1826214184

The face of Tuunbaq has been one of my pet peeves from the first time they showed it. And although it was nice to see Hickey finally get his due, that was some really bad CGI there. Another pet peeve was that these men had been wearing those clothes non-stop for YEARS. Even with one or 2 changes of clothes, all of them should have been in rags by now. Damn, the British navy makes really durable stuff! I didn't get the guy hooking chains to his face either unless it was psychosis and he was unaware of what he was doing. At first I thought maybe someone had done it TO him, but who was left to have done so? I got a little flashback to A Man Called Horse (with of course, Jared Harris' father Richard Harris) when LS was expelled from the Inuit community for losing Tuunbaq. There's a brutal scene about a woman who is left without a man when her son or husband is killed in battle.. her belongings are distributed among the tribe and she is left to starve and freeze.

I guess I'm going to have to rewatch to figure out just what is going on in the big battle between Tuunbaq and the sailors. I still wasn't totally clear on who was at which camp by the end, so visiting everyone's demise either in a frenzied attack or in camps after the fact, was confusing. We spent a lot of time with Hickey revealing that he isn't Hickey, which we already knew (although his crew didn't) and far too long with LS staring at Goodsir's body. They could have made the big showdown a smidge less confusing. It also seemed unnecessary for Goodsir to do what he did (not that he could have known) since they all ended up in battle with Tuunbaq anyway.

I'm going to Hartford this weekend for a tango festival. Hello to those in CT.

Mr Slothgirl is 6 years older than Harmon, and even when he IS tired, he doesn't look as tired, pale and worn out as Harmon looks in every scene to me.

I started a rewatch about 2 weeks ago and got too busy to keep going. I might start upagain though

I'm totally sick of all STEM characters on tv being "quirky". It's as though the writers think those fields are so unusual that only really unusual social misfits would ever be in them. Although, in the NCIS universe, it is an unusual field, and that must be why the entire agency had to rely on a single employee and then be stuck wondering "OMG, how are we going to do our job and have actual, you know, CASES, without Abby???" That goodness Gibbs remembered that there was another person in all of DC who could run a few tests, even if it is her first real job. OW! I think I sprained my eyeball from it rolling so far back in my head. Well, except for his rather humorous scene with Phil. I like Gibbs interacting with his friends, and the show needs more of that. Of all the relationships on the show over the years, the best for me has always been the "old married couple" vibe of Gibbs and Fornell. I wonder if Phil is going to become a recurring character? I was thinking that about McGee too until the last bit where he says he remembers why he became an agent The show does seem to be re-booting though in a "new cast, younger vibe" direction though. It would make more sense for Gibbs to leave that McGee (not from a production angle, but for realism). I'm having a hard time accepting someone his age, with his history of injuries, still going out in the field. Supervising crime scene investigation, maybe... but not going out to apprehend suspects or be in situations that require strength and stamina, or could result in him getting shot or trip and hit his head. IRL, he would have been sidelined years ago. Harmon's not even looking that healthy for his age anymore. (I think the longer hair on the sides of his face really emphasizes the aging in his face. When he had the subtle visual line higher up created by the shorter hair, it lifted his face and made him look younger).

DOn't know whether this belongs in the media thread or the coffee shop thread, but all y'all on Twitter really need to follow this woman to see her portraits of the cast (not the same photos already posted.. these are paintings) https://twitter.com/AleTrixy Jared Harris has retweeted some. I may have to join twitter just to follow JH. He's also apparently a heartfelt voice for women and minorities' rights... as if I needed more reasons to love him! Actually, you don't really need a twitter account to see them, or I wouldn't have been able to. DOH!

I agree about JH. I've never seen him in anything else, and now I want to search out everything he's ever done. I also agree that the total reversal of Crozier from defeated drunk to saint was a little rushed in the telling. My major criticism of the show is that I never really FELT how much time was passing, even though cursory research informed me of the time frame. If they had a showcard giving dates (and I don't remember if they always did) if you blinked you missed it. I think the show could have used a few more episodes for a number of reasons. In the hands of another actor, Crozier could have come across as stereotypical and 2D as Hickey. JH elevates the character far beyond what's on the page. I think there are others who go beyond "perfectly capable". It's just unfortunate that I don't think the actor playing Hickey is one of them. I read an interview with him (that I can't find now to post to the Hickey thread) where he talks about his intention for the character, and it just isn't coming across that way. Every time I see him on screen, I wish they'd get rid of his pointy beard. The hair and makeup people gave him a look that adds to the cartoony caricature feel I get from Hickey. I think they made a huge mistake there, and the actor isn't skilled enough to rise above it and add subtlety the way JH adds so much to a character that could have been just as flat. I was starting to think Goodsir was pretty one note, so I LOVE his transition to detached "You're going to die" interaction. He played that so well, and perfectly captured an empathetic compassionate person who doesn't become hateful... just resigned and unaffected. Heartbreaking in some ways, but also showing some much needed backbone for the character.... and just as quickly, his true nature comes back in the face of cruelty. I love the idea of the Tuunbaq, but the execution of the "character" just hasn't been consistent. I'm not talking about the animation; I'm referring to the point of his presence (although the animation needs improvement. The weird human clown-like face is WAY off the mark). But at this point, I think we needed to have sorted out just what (or who) Tuunbaq is or represents, and what role or significance he plays in the native culture and landscape. They could have gone several ways with it, and they didn't pick one. I can't reconcile a force that restores the balance for the long term good of the land and all its inhabitants, with a magical creature that can (and would) stack parts of frozen bodies together. Yes, frozen body-stacking (if that was a thing) is about achieving perfect balance and precision, but it's just a little too "WTF?". Is Tuunbaq playing with pieces of bodies the way people play with rocks to create such improbably but perfectly balanced stacked rock sculptures? Is it just to creep the people out? Would a supernatural force that creates balance among species by getting rid of excess caribou care about creating FEAR in the process? Is it analogous to Hickey playing with that guy's brain? Tuunbaq was introduced in the first scene of the show. I only hope that some clarity will come in the last episode, but I'm afraid it won't. I don't think they really knew what the wanted to do with Tuunbaq beyond having scary promos before the show aired. Maybe the finale will prove me wrong.

WOW! Those portraits are amazing! They capture the personalities and psychologies too!

She says in her tweets "HE did it!" Do you really think that people aren't going to assume she means MH after all the tabloid gossip about an issue between them and spending the whole season refusing to share scenes? Apologies if this continues "speculation chatter". PP's tweets are what the media is reporting about the show right now, so I assumed the tweets and reaction to them are part of the NCIS in the Media topic? (different from speculation about what actually happened) Mods, let me know if I'm out of line.

Because she is being vague and relying on innuendo to "report" crimes, knowing it damages the reputation of someone specific without naming that person or clarifying what that person did. We don't know that ANYTHING occurred. We don't know WHO did whatever was done, if anything was done. We don't know if there's more - or LESS - to the dog story. We only know rumor and tweets. Real people's reputations are at stake here, and I've got a problem with people's lives being destroyed by rumors, innuendo, and assumptions. There's a reason our justice system works as it does, and this isn't justice for anybody... not the implied accused, nor the alleged victim. There are already people who don't believe victims when they accuse famous men because they are seen to be seeking fame, money, whatever. It's hard for victims to get people to believe them. Those are good reasons why someone may not want to come forward. But coming forward in this manner doesn't help the cause. It just raises doubts. We had a case here of false accusations that received national attention when the accusations were made. The revelations that it was all made up made the work of real victims and prosecutors working on their behalf harder. It made the work of people trying to spread knowledge of racism and abuse harder. You may not agree, but vague accusations on Twitter can have the same effect.

A victim doesn't allow themselves to be assaulted. BUT... they do return to the place or person where the assaults happen, knowing that more assaults will likely occur. That's not a judgement or victim blaming; it's just the truth of what so often happens. There may be many legitimate reasons why the victim does that, but for PP to continue to work on the series if she had been repeatedly assaulted, doesn't make much sense to those of us who have never been in the situation. Many women have tolerated ill-treatment because they were not in a position to leave an abuser for various reasons. What kept PP there "against her will" so to speak? After so many years on the show, even if she didn't want to lose the income, she could probably AFFORD to. On the other hand, MH seems to have a talent for creating long-term feuds within his family, so maybe once he gets his back up, there's no reconcilliation possible. It might have nothing to do with his ego getting bigger on the #1 show. Maybe he's always been a grudge collector. Lots of maybes... we just don't know. But I really dislike PP's vague tweets. It casts doubt on many people about unspecified actions. It also damages the credibility of other victims who are being up front and taking real risks to expose abusers.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who didn't get a sexual vibe from their love. I have nothing against gay characters and story-lines, but I also love when deep, non-sexual/romantic love is shown between men. The true depth of friendship is so rarely explored amidst the over-sexualized context of entertainment in general these days. Gawd... I sound like my mother! (and you kids get off my lawn!) Tuunbaq is no match for a giant flying cockroach from the south, so.... (grew up in SC, where they are euphemistically called "palmetto beetles". No.. they are giant flying roaches that rearrange the furniture when you go away for the weekend, and I'd rather face down Tuunbaq any day!)

Why didn't Hickey's crew cook the meat? Did they carefully plan grabbing supplies and NOT grab any type of fuel or firestarter? Do they not have anything to burn even with a firestarter? The main group managed to burn all the bodies left by the Tuunbaq massacre, so the camp had some form of fuel. I'm also wondering what they are drinking... do the tinned goods include liquids? Now that they have been on the wasteland of King William Island, where are they getting water? Why haven't they died of dehydration?

I don't understand where they were getting water once they left the ice flow and were traversing King William Island. Why aren't they dying of dehydration which kills faster than any of these other issues? What am I missing? Do they have big vats of freshwater in those sledges along with tables, and fine china?