stanleyk

This episode dragged a little bit for me, for these reasons. It felt a little bit like treading water to me, which brings up unwelcome flashbacks to all of S1. I thought I wanted to see more of the women, but this distaff episode didn't interest me much. Whither the spying, I ask you? Though this season has certainly picked up the pace and excitement level over last, I'd love it more if they actually did some spying - there are flashes of promise, but the show seems to get bogged down in its ongoing plots over operation-of-the-week plots, which I think I'd prefer. And while I appreciate the attempt to focus on them, the ladies didn't exactly cover themselves in glory. Anna's attempt to "seduce" Simcoe was both weird and pathetic. Did she actually think that would work? She framed it as "I'm in love with someone else, so if you save that guy, I guess I have to let you screw me." Yay? I mean, Simcoe may be a psycho, but I can't imagine anyone with even a drop of humanity thinking it sounds like a great deal for your crush to have unwilling sex with you in payment for you saving someone she actually cares about. Does she think the prospect of sex with her is so entrancing that a man will sally forth, knowing she is unwilling and into someone else, just to get some? Especially after she told him in no uncertain terms that she hated him and the only way he'd ever get in her pants was by raping her. I've never liked the Anna character much, and this episode didn't do anything to change that. It also may be true to the period, but it's kind of a bummer that Anna's actual spy shenanigans so far seem to require her to exploit her sexuality (same for Peggy, actually). And as for Mary, I'd love for her to get more interesting, but I found the actress...not great in her big scene with Woodhull Sr and I have concerns if she's a big factor in the story going forward. But, whatever. I'm still in. Andre! Simcoe! Very little Abe! Woodhull Sr. getting smacked down! All good things.

As I understood it, Andre sent his henchman (Gamble, I believe was the name) into the camp in uniform; he was "caught" and claimed that he had come to warn the patriots that Shanks was going to inflitrate the camp and would use a piece of information to show his loyalty to patriots, thus gaining their trust in order to become an effective British spy. So then Shanks showed up and told Ben about the alleged plot to assassinate GW, which seemed to confirm Gamble's information. GW then figured out that Shanks had deserted the patriot army after an earlier battle because he was about to be court-martialed, thus making GW and Sackett even more inclined to believe Gamble's story over Shanks'. But as it turned out, the entire thing was puppet-mastered by Andre: he had made sure that Shanks overheard the "plan" to assassinate GW, then sent Gamble ahead of him to lay the groundwork, with the ultimate goal to steal a bunch of secret stuff and, maybe, kill Sackett. Mission accomplished. I mean, props to Ben for figuring out who the real spy was, but all the patriots looked like buffoons in this episode. I can't believe Sackett would have been so stupid as to question Gamble not only alone, but in his tent full of secret documents. This from the man who says he doesn't even trust himself? Doesn't scan. I continue to have this issue as well. As far as I can see, Townsend has done nothing to encourage Abe's pursuit of him, except not turn him in when he could have. It's a big leap from "I'm going to refrain from turning you in" to "I wish to risk my life spying for your side." That made no sense to me, either. Why wouldn't you send the decoys out FIRST, in the hope that Rogers would split his men up to follow them and leave the real couriers to leave the next day? Really. Buffoons. Rogers continues to do not a lot for me; his character didn't make a lot of sense to me in the first season - I mean, his Ahab-like pursuit of Ben for killing one of his men (to save his own life...in a war) was inexplicable to me. And his over-the-top screams of "you'll regret this!" or whatever to GW while he was being dragged out were ridiculous. There's only room for one sociopath with monomaniacal obsessions on this show, and his name is Simcoe. And as much as I like the new Hewlett, I think it's a pretty big departure from the martinet we saw last season. Hopefully, the patriots will get their shit together and get a few wins in the next episode or two, because otherwise I am really going to start wondering if the show's loose adherence to historical fact will extend to who actually won this war.

The first punishment was for when Dre caught her driving...someone's car? Not sure whose. Then when Bow was about to drive her to the spring formal (after stating that it was all taken care of and that Zoe had learned her lesson), she figured out that Zoe had (also, apparently after being punished the first time) driven Bow's car. So it was a second infraction. This may be the first time in the history of the show that I thought Dre was in the right more than Bow. It may make sense with the story of Bow's upbringing, and I get her wanting Zoe to let her into her life more, but...man, she made some questionable calls.

I'm new to the show, having recently binged S1 (if one can call the slow, water-dripping torture of watching S1 "binging," though it maybe played better as a binge-watch than waiting week after week only to be disappointed by the pacing, the lack of spycraft, and the excruciatingly tedious Abe/Anna relationship the writers apparently thought we all cared about). But I'm fully on board now. I really enjoyed this last episode; it's crucial to the show that they actually have Abe acting like...a hero, instead of a wishy-washy, poorly pony-tailed pearl-clutcher. Really liked the draughts game between him and Townsend, though it is slightly unclear to me why Abe is so convinced that Townsend's his guy. He's smart and crafty and didn't turn Abe in, but it's a big leap to saying he's up for the spy game (even if we know the outcome). Really, REALLY liked the minimal Abe/Anna interaction, and Ben's snarky treatment of same. And, speaking of Ben, pro tip on the hair: keep it loose. And also...come over here. Yowser. Loved Andre, Caleb and Rogers, and of course, Simcoe 4EVA. And could Hewlett be more adorable? I love how they've added some layers to his character - it's a welcome change from S1's Hewlett, which was a pretty cliched "follow the rules!/damn the locals!" tyrant. I am, though, kind of ready for Arnold to get to the treachery, since I find his stridency a little annoying to watch, and also there will be some good stuff that comes out of that: Ben will be completely gutted that his hero (second-string, after GW) turns traitor. And one question about the three childhood friends: has there ever been an explanation for how Abe, Ben and Caleb could have all grown up together in the same small town, yet all have such markedly different accents? Oh, and also, on Anachronism Watch: did Abe say "great" when he found something at the dead drop? I thought I heard that, but maybe not. It seemed a little modern to me if so.

I don't know exactly why, but I feel the need to defend Hayley a little bit. To me, Blair and Hayley's problem is that they fundamentally operate differently in a team setting. My impression is that Hayley wants a cooperative dynamic - she doesn't want to lead, necessarily, but instead wants to work together. Blair wants to be in charge, and if when he "allowed" Hayley to take charge, he admitted part of him wanted her to fail. So he kind of made a point of refusing to work cooperatively with her in that instance. Her version of being "in charge" meant she wanted equal input from both team members, and his version of being "in charge" means that one person makes the decisions. Fundamentally incompatible, but to me understandable from both of them. And we have seen Blair being dismissive when she tries to work with him on directions. Do I think her response is reasonable? No, because I am not an insane person. But as a person with a temper who doesn't let things go easily, I get why she acts the way she does, out of frustration at not being heard by a partner she'd like to have a more back-and-forth conversation with. I'd probably act the same way (to my eternal shame). I don't enjoy listening to her screeching either, but I guess I see it growing more out an understandable frustration with her incompatibility with her teammate, and I think Blair, intentionally or not, tends to escalate with his preternaturally calm responses. She wants him to ENGAGE, not try to soothe her. If I'm angry, one of the quickest way to escalate me to incoherent rage is to tell me to calm down, and I think Hayley just wants acknowledgement that she exists and that she is angry. I do feel the show is piling on a little bit, with stitching together the exchange on the bikes with Blair all "it's a beautiful day" and her "I'm cold!" Well...it WAS cold. It was just above freezing. If I were riding a bike on a gray, cold day without gloves, I'd probably say "I need gloves," too. She may not be the most self-aware person, and certainly she has some anger issues, but I'm not unsympathetic to her. In other news, I'm not sure who I'm rooting for. I have the same lukewarm feelings about all the remaining teams. I'd like Tyler and Laura more, but I just can't shake his ridiculous gay panic comments during the ladyboy challenge. WE GET IT, YOU'RE ALL MAN. And I like how chill Mike and Rochelle are, but the rest are just kind of...eh. Whatever.

And it seemed clear that Foggy totally got that as well, which sucked. That also must be an ongoing (and resent-making) dynamic in his relationship with Matt. I'm not entirely clear on why, but for some reason, at this point I am super-resistant to some kind of romantic relationship between Matt and Karen.

I really, really loved the premise for this episode, mostly because it handled the inevitable reveal of the hero to someone close to him with a lot more depth and reality than other shows of this type (reality, of course, being understood within the context of an ass-kicking blind superhero show). Usually any blowback from the reveal is minimal or over quickly - the friend is basically like, "very cool!" or "I think I always sort of knew" or maybe a brief "I can't believe you lied to me!" and then they're immediately on the team. Here, there were several levels, the most obvious being Foggy's reaction to the personal betrayal at having been lied to for so many years, not just about the Daredevil stuff, but also about how Matt's abilities made Foggy vulnerable their whole relationship in ways he didn't sign up for (the comments about invasiveness and privacy and whether Matt always knew when Foggy was lying, for example). But Foggy also had really valid points to make about the moralilty of Matt's crusade, the hypocrisy in a lot of what Matt says and does, and the scary violence that Matt has in him, such that it's unclear even to him what his underlying motives might be. Several of those have been ongoing questions in the series (Claire made similar points, as has Ben) and I think serve to make the series a little more thoughtful than your standard comics-based fare. And just a much more realistic reaction from Foggy than we typically get: confusion and betrayal and hurt - things that they can talk about for a long time, but can't be resolved easily and will permanently affect their relationship. (At least, I hope so...haven't seen the rest of the season yet). On an equally introspective note, I wish they hadn't waxed Charlie Cox all to hell. Based on other stuff he's been in, it appears he's got quite a chest rug, so (1) ouch, a lot and (2) hotter the other way (and different from other shows! and realistic!).

I saw a lot of muay thai, Brazilian ju jitsu, and krav maga as well as boxing in his fighting style, and even though a lot of the MMA stuff shows up in action shows these days, I thought it was really well done here, and I agree it seemed fresher and cleaner than a lot of stuff we see. I am a moron, because I did not realize that's what "the incident" was referencing. I just kept thinking "what is The Incident! I must know about this Incident!" Doy. But I really enjoyed the pilot and am definitely in for the rest. I loved the darkness (both metaphoric and literal). I didn't really have a problem with Charlie Cox's accent or notice it too much, and I have never had a problem with the way he looks - delicious, and whatever he's done body-wise to prepare to play a superhero works for me. I will go slightly against the tide by saying I felt Foggy was a little too broad and glib for my tastes, but I'm weak so he'll probably grow on me. And my only other problem is that, as a lawyer, I have to put blinders on to all the terrible and terribly unrealistic lawyering that goes on, but that's no different from any show that deals with lawyers. Stick to the fighty fight, Daredevil!

I've always been lukewarm on this show, and the first three episodes of this season haven't made me warm to it further. Part of my problem is with Jeremy Piven - I can't figure out if he's PLAYING an egotistical tool or that's just his own toolishness shining forth. Either way, I find nothing to sympathize with or relate to with Selfridge himself. And the sudden (re)introduction on the daughters...I barely remember them from the first two seasons, so it feels like they're trying to reboot with a focus on their stories, yet I have no relation to or interest in these characters. It's hard to feel too bad for Rosalie, who apparently rushed into a marriage with a dick so transparent that he didn't even wait for the wedding to be over to start acting like an asshole. And I cannot understand his high-handed, aggressive treatment of Selfridge - what power does he have in this relationship to act like that? I almost expected Selfridge to announce he was kicking him and his awful mother out and getting the marriage annulled - and I believe he could do it, so how does Prince Dickwad get away with acting like that? With others who have said they wished the show would focus on the store and the employees, I concur. Much more interesting than watching Selfridge self-implode or his idiot daughters act like idiots. Though I will say I am also not taken with Henri's PTSD storyline. It may be accurate, but it's tired and depressing. And I think that's the biggest problem in this season so far - no levity. EVERYTHING is so dark and it looks like everyone is suffering to one degree or another. It is POSSIBLE to have entertaining storylines that aren't all doom and gloom, show. And more fantasical windows and displays! More crazy store promotions, please!

And to be fair, prior to this leg they were in, I think, just Japan and Thailand - those are two languages Americans are less likely to know and languages that are very different from English. I do recall a few teams saying, for example, "thank you" in Thai, so I think they make SOME effort, but it's a big ask to get someone to learn enough of a foreign language to get directions in a country you might just be in a few days. This is not to excuse the generally poor language skills of the racers - I don't recall it happening for a while, but I do know there seemed to be several seasons where random racers would just scream "Andale!" at cab drivers in, like, Morocco. Anyway, Kurt and Bergen made me enraged. I don't blame Bergen as much for eventually giving up - I mean, Kurt had been giving up for hours if not days. There comes a point where you just can't drag the person around by yourself anymore. We only saw little snippets, but I would have eventually quit too if I had a partner who refused to help and was actively being a total lame-ass. Still can't tell most of the other pairs apart. The "blind date" aspect of this season hasn't been quite the trainwreck I expected, but the real problem in my opinion is that we've quickly ended up with a bunch of, to me, indistinguishable young-ish, attractive-ish, white, hetero couples. I can only pick Jelani and Jenny and Mike and Rochelle. And Hayley when she's screeching. I also defended her at the beginning, but I can't in good conscience continue to do so. What an over-excited pill.

I think also in context, Stan was trying to explain what bugged him about the guy, which was basically Aderholt always probing for more information and kind of generally being a little show-offy, and I think his mentioning his race was meant to imply that the guy has to work harder to make a name for himself and be a little more visible to get advancement. Like he has more to prove because of his race (not validating this view, of course, but that's what I took from the context). I think this is right - Elizabeth's instructions to Hans were to watch for patrol cars, and to tap twice on the horn and drive away if he saw one. What he actually did was kind of freak out when shit got real, lay on the horn repeatedly, and NOT drive away. So I think Hans is not quite ready for prime-time.

I am in complete love. I watched the whole season over the weekend and am contemplating a second viewing so I can catch what I missed the first time around. I was a dedicated 30 Rock fan, but I don't see that much in common between the two shows (beyond a certain taste for absurd humor). I would have thought Kimmy would get very annoying with her super-chirpiness, but I actually find her awesome - she's up-beat, yes, but underneath is a spine of steel and she's not so nice that she's beyond blackmailing (over knowledge gleaned from her one Babysitter's Club book!) and fits of anger. I would actually describe her more as having an extreme determination to effect change than an unrealistically sunny outlook. She sees the dark side of life - as she says (paraphrasing), she's already experienced the worst thing, so what else does she have to fear? I will say Titus can be a bit of a weak spot at times, but he grew on me over the course of the season. I was also concerned after the pilot that Jane Krakowski was doing a Jenna retread of the insanely self-involved, oblivious, vain absurdity, but her character went to really interesting places. And Carol Kane is an effing national treasure. And some of the guest players who show up later in the season are truly awesome. Like, the Reverend Gary Wayne Gary...my jaw dropped a little. And he was great. The theme song has been stuck in my head for 24 hours. And yet I still love it.

Wait, I missed it. What was it?

You're not alone. I've always liked Michelle, both in her original season and this season. Would I want to hang out with her? Probably not; she's a bit much, in the "personality plus" department for me.. But I like her aesthetic and I've never found her fake and mean-spirited (at least, any more so than most other competitors). I've never understood why people are so vitriolic about her. And that was a travesty last night. Helen should have gone home for her original look. It looked like something I would have rejected when going to the prom in 1992 because it was too junior and boring. I can't imagine any movie star wearing that thing on any red carpet. Michelle's may not have been earth-shattering, but I could see it actually being worn in real life on a red carpet. So I finally was like, I can't anymore and deleted the show from DVR. It's such a joke these days, and I simply CANNOT listen to more dreck coming out of the judge's mouths. The degree of overpraise is laughable - I suppose they feel the need to talk as if even a basic dress is the second-coming and avoid any real criticism in order to prop up the idea that this is a serious design competition and these are serious, talented designers. But, you know...we can see the dresses. Isaac rhapsodizing about how "fresh" and "modern" the simple a-line dress Helen made in the second challenge was was absurd...the whole thing is absurd, and they can't even let me enjoy it as a trainwreck, because they keep insisting that this is such a big deal and so serious. And it's not just the judges. I mean, christ, when one of the competitors was going on about how the prize of being being a guest designer for DOG COSTUMES was a "big deal" because lots of people put clothes on dogs...give me a break. My only question now is whether I also jettison PR: Original Flavor. Probably. I think it will feel cathartic.

Agree that the mom was the highlight, and I also enjoyed Park. They're almost enough for me to keep it on the DVR. But the humor was too broad for me, I hated the fact that it is kid-centric, and the mid-90s references don't really hit for me (I'm ten years too old for those to be personally nostalgic). In short: didn't find it that funny. And while it's great to see an Asian-American family be the focus of a show, I didn't feel that any of its commentary was particularly incisive. Black-ish has its issues (in part due to precocious child-acting), but it's smart enough to have the kids in small doses and it's not afraid to jump into some touchy areas. I thought the best thing FOB did was have the family more subtly have conscious awareness of race and their outsider status (constant references to white people, white people food, white faces, etc.), but the rest of it kind of devolved into caricature. The "love you" bit in the second episode was particularly weak. So, eh. I might leave it on for another episode in support of the idea, but the humor's got to get smarter if I'm going to stick around for the long-haul.

So I enjoyed this episode more than I have some others from this season, and Kathryn Hahn's is one of my favorite recurring characters, so that made me happy. The scene with April dressing down Donna's relatives deserved a rewind. "Majorca is off the table!" But I think I've figured out what I find off about this season (in addition to the rushed pace and effort to cram lots of ideas into 13 episodes): the world has gotten too big. The cornerstore of this show - and I think one of the things that made it great - was small, parochial, morbidly obese Pawnee, with its raccoons and its bloodfeud with Eagleton. While the show is still nominally set in Pawnee, the place doesn't inform the show anymore. No more crazy open town meetings, random citizen complaints, or Leslie's infectious enthusiasm that made a small-time plan seem like a huge chance for victory. Part of the humor of the show was the bigness of their dreams compared to the smallness of their world: the borderline pathos of Leslie being so sure she'd be president someday, while she was sitting behind the desk as the second-in-command of a parks district in a small city. But in the current world of the show, it's not far-fetched that Leslie could one day run for President, since she's now overseeing a large federal department and has apparently been courted to run for federal office, or that Ben could be in Congress. And that's a tone shift that's just a little too jarring for me. I would love to see a return to the slower pace and smaller stories of the earlier seasons, but we seem to be careening towards the end with, I feel, too little feeling for what made this show great in an attempt to give everyone a big, happy ending.

Which reminds me of my favorite linguistic bafflement anecdote; when I was studying abroad in Dublin, I was taking a Latin class taught by an American grad student - we were the only two Americans in the room. We ran across the Latin word for "to fillet" and he translated it for us as "to fil-ay." Dead silence. Then, from an Irish student, "...what?" And the prof just keeps saying "to fil-ay. You know, to fil-ay, like to fil-ay a fish." I back him up, unhelpfully: "Fil-ay. To fil-ay something." Baffled stares from all sides. I'm thinking, "what's wrong with you dummies? do you not know what 'to fillet' means?" FINALLY, one of the Irish students goes, "OH. To FILL-it." Relieved sighs all around. On topic, I enjoyed this episode, though I too wish they'd provided more technical detail and information. I was in Budapest relatively recently and loved all the insane cakes there (including the Dobos) and though I'm not a terrible baker myself, I had no idea what all went into making them. I was a little disappointed that no one seemed to do very well on these challenges, though - perhaps there is just a point where, no matter how good, the home baker is simply not able to reach the heights of a professional? A pie is one thing, but a really architectural, very technical cake like that? In any event, glad to see everyone stay. Richard seems to be reaching the end of his tenure, but I've really enjoyed him and I love his easy-going attitude. So nice to see someone whose response to criticism isn't knee-jerk defensiveness, but a sort of cheerful, "yes, I did terrible at EVERYTHING, didn't I? Nailed it!"

Shouldn't it have been...Ron Swine-son? Thank you! I'll be here all week! Tip your waiter!

As for why they didn't bring Iain back, as they would in most US reality shows, I would guess it's because the set-up here allows them to practice their dishes (which is one of the reasons I really enjoy this show, which is more about seeing what their actual skills are instead of coming up with farcical situations on the fly). Since it appears Diana was injured just before filming of this episode, Iain wouldn't have had the chance to come up with the recipes for the Signature and Showstopper challenges in time. I was fine with Norman going home. His stolid inability to see that his very simple dishes weren't getting it done was getting to be cringe-y. I mean, when he talks about the fact that he first tasted a lemon tart twenty years ago, it sounds like a distant fond memory...until you realize he must have been 45 before he ever tasted a lemon tart. A lemon tart! He seems like a pleasant man and a solid home baker, but out of his league here. I started to list who I like best, but I realize I like them all. Which is why I also like this show. So refreshing!

I didn't watch this and have no interest in seeing it (it sound both deeply homophobic and deeply sad), but this quote is hilarious: Buddy? That second thing you listed, the "attraction to males"? That's not something that's "kind of gay." That's the straight-up definition of gay. Gah.

I was, too - I immediately saw what a chef could do with Dickinson, far more than with Hawthorne. And the funny thing is that Doug - by simply taking a line and trying to replicate the visual - actually accidentally stumbled on a pretty good representation of Dickinson on a plate: austere but sophisticated, simple but with hidden profundity. This George thing is driving me nuts. I am not a crackpot, and I recognize how idiotic it is to get exercised over the fact that a televised game show doesn't play by recognizable rules, but it's such bullshit that he got to just jump into the final six (...seven? I'm not paying much attention) based on a single dish. And then he wins immunity given out by a football player with no discernible knowledge of food (apologies to all the Patriots fans: I don't follow football and have no clue who that guy is). Note that his bottom two were because one was too small and one was too spicy. His top two were the most conventional, boring-looking dishes. Which is par for the course for George, who based on everything he's made so far, seems to make only dull, deeply conventional food that is competently made. Seems clear George would have gone home without that immunity, so...blech. On the other hand, I was no great fan of Katsuji, so whatever. And on a more universal point, I will have forgotten all of these people ever existed in a matter of weeks, so I should probably stop ranting about George.

And immediately recognizable to lawyers, too - I was totally distracted by the number of case reporters on all the shelves, and my OCD was bothered by the fact that they were all mixed up and interspersed. Especially now that people don't really use those books since it's easier to research online, I'm sure they can get tons of old ones on the cheap, and I get that they look sort of old-timey and "serious" in background shots, but their use is diverting to a subset of the population. My god, Rhode Island IS magic!

So do I. The pragmatist in me rebels at those sorts of shenanigans, and I'm not enough of a sentimentalist for the "aw, friendship!" stuff to make up for it. I didn't particularly care for this episode, mostly because everyone was acting like an idiot. And I thought the Ryan plot was super-tired: of course the English guy comes from a rich family who owns a country house. I was hoping against hope that they were going to do something more interesting with that, like it would turn out that he was just messing with her by feeding into her Downtown fantasies, and in fact when she arrived his family would be solidly middle-class (or, perhaps better, tacky in a supremely British way). Not only was the premise stale, but Ryan himself is completely uncompelling because he's so perfect: super-cute, charming accent, kind and thoughtful, dedicated to teaching, unflaggingly forgiving of Jess acting like a moron. In other words, bland.

I knew Brooke would get dinged (rightfully) for her OTT retching and complaining about the smell, but I was actually really turned off by Misti's tearful "we're just so thankful we live in beautiful, clean America" and "these poor kids in the street" thing. There are plenty of cultural differences in how children are raised, all over the world. I couldn't help but feel a big strain of racial and socio-economic condescension in her comments. For example, in some Scandanavian countries (and maybe other places, I don't know), it's perfectly normal to park your kid in a stroller out on the sidewalk and then leave the kid unattended. I doubt observing this practice, which would probably get you arrested in the US, would move Misti to tears and thankfulness about living in America, as observing how some kids live in the Philippines did. I don't really mind the Dentists and I appreciate that they're not awful people, but her comments really rubbed me the wrong way. In any event, I'm fine with all the teams left except the Wrestlers. They're aggressively dumb and Brooke in particular is painful to watch. Obvious this one was NEL so only half-watched but am looking forward to the rest!

All I watch is the runway at this point, and I don't even know if I can stomach that much longer. I can't even with the overpraise of just-ok designs: I mean, you can't find words to describe the brilliance of a coat? Really? None of these people is the second coming, and the judges trying to convince me the show has relevance to the overall fashion world insults my intelligence and theirs. I wondered this too. They were all practically genuflecting and constantly referring to the "Duchess" and the "royal family," and I was like, I'm not so sure she qualifies as either anymore. I've always liked her, too. I don't have so much tolerance for Helen, but I don't really see the bitchiness in Michelle that others have. And I like her aesthetic, for the most part. Thought Sam should have gone home over Benjamin (I mean, I could NOT see what she was talking about with that "print": it looked like a sponge-painted bathroom wall from the late eighties, not the "ornateness" of any architecture one might care to emulate) but I can't be arsed to really care either way.