cereality

I actually wouldn't be surprised. If someone on her side dropped out and she decided to put in someone on Nathan's side, it's interesting that that person is Tiffany rather than one of the 37 sisters. Though I assume Nathan "recommended" someone from his side and I don't think he has a close relationship with any sister and then if he randomly chose one - the loudmouths like Carlin, Katie, SIL Whit - would have something to say about it if it wasn't them; like I don't think he is like Trace who is close with Alyssa and could just choose her and everyone would 100% expect that. I mean Law and Tiff aren't even engaged, what if Tiff runs away - do you want her in your wedding pics forever? But if it's bc Law is gonna propose right there it'll be like aawww remember how they started their lives at our wedding and we were able to give them sage marriage advice because we had been newlyweds for 45 min then.

I liked the low key gender reveal with just their kids opening a box without Kelly or Carlin there squealing or taking away the attention. E&C didn't seem disappointed BUT seems like they have had WEEKS to become resigned to the idea of another girl as E&C she tested and it said girl (can you test for that yourself? I thought they dr does it) and then 5-6 weeks later tested again bc she didn't believe it; so they've clearly been hoping against hope for a month and a half for a boy but at the same time resigning themselves that it probably is a girl. As for the name - eh but when the options are Harbor, Ireland, Scotland (WTF?), Avonlea, and Brighton - eh you get what you get kid. I do like Brighton but it's a boys name in the UK AND honestly these country hicks don't need a name that fancy. I too agree this is NOT the last kid that they'll try to have. She's due in Jan. Guaranteed there's another pregnancy announcement by June 2022 (assuming she has some more eggs left in there OR they froze whatever was left). Did they really need to discuss "a brother for Carson" in that video?? But they are still hype-focused on a brother for Carson, as is Carson because these morons have put it in his head that every boy NEEDS a brother and made him pray for it. I know in the video they say they told him God knows what we need. Uh idiots why didn't you tell him that in the first place -- whether you get brothers or sisters or any more siblings at all is God's will and not something a child needs to worry about, now go play!? But in reality I 100% bet they're telling him -- God isn't saying NO he's saying NOT NOW, you have to KEEP PRAYING/PRAY HARDER . . . . And we'll keep putting mommy in dangerous situations just to see if we can make God change his will to BOY soon. At this point why not just do gender selection (again if there's a few eggs left) and just keep it your little secret?? And damn she has REALLY detached from her family and is all about her little family now. I'm not saying I blame her for wanting to separate from that zoo, but the entire family is in Pa. now hanging out, attending the rehearsal/post rehearsal meal and it doesn't seem like Erin and Chad have arrived yet (they're not in anyone else's pics) and instead she's choosing this time to drop her gender reveal? Though maybe she wants it to drop now bc it'll be less attention on ANOTHER GIRL?

I get that all the siblings are young so it's NBD but damn I always get uncomfortable when all the siblings undertake these overnight drives. I get it's easier with young kids because they sleep. But Josie just hit the road at 8 pm saying it'll be a 9-10 hr drive and likely longer with stops. A&J drove yesterday leaving SC at like 2 pm and arriving at 1 am. Carlin is riding w/ Z&W's family in an RV on what can only be explained as one of those 80s vacation movies that were disastrous and though they are "only" 2-3 hrs away but of course must stop at Walmart and buy more crap for the wedding. (What exactly are they always shopping for at WMT, Hobby Lobby, Target etc.?? Like Esther's family handles the decor etc here.) Like only Brandon and Michael appeared to have done a drive beginning at noon ending at 9 pm but of course they did it without kids and likely weren't stopping hourly either. Like Kelton worked a full day and started driving at 8 pm and they're already stopping to feed Hazel and let the older kid run around some gas station. How do they not get nervous pulling all nighters at a time when big trucks are moving on the highways + stopping at gas stations and fast food places that'll be mostly deserted at midnight or 3 am or 5 am - though I guess there can be truckers around. IDK if a quiet drive with sleeping kids allowing me to bond with my spouse (and do IG question posts) would be that worth it to me. I'd rather leave first thing in the morning and hope the kids take a nap by 10 am and that buys a few hours of silence and the rest of the time entertain them.

So much of this seems to be driven by the show. Alyssa tends to visit when they're filming - probably because she has to visit some when they're filming in order to get $$ and also bc she's trying to become a YouTube and IG star and that's not going to happen if she's the forgotten sister who never appears on TV. But of course when they're filming UP wants/needs events; it's not exciting TV for Alyssa to drive up for 4 days and she's making popcorn with Gil and watching football with him while John naps in the recliner and then they sit around a bon fire at night - which is what she did with Papa Bill and Mama Jane this weekend. Instead it's better TV for Up when the whole family gathers - Alyssa comes to town; Law and Nathan bring their gfs - and there's a big family event. Cue the 50 thousandth - baby shower; pregnancy announcement; gender reveal; courtship announcement; engagement; wedding shower; wedding; I Love You Day; or Christmas. Cue Kelly hollering about OMG we have soooo much to do, we should have started 2 weeks ago, as they stay up until midnight decorating the same damn church hall for the 50 thousandth time or run off to Target and Hobby Lobby for last minute crappy decor or ponder how much chicken salad is needed to feed 100 people and rush to prep said chicken salad. I mean I guess this could be avoided and she could get 1-2 quiet weekends with her family just catching up if she visited when nothing was going on. But reality is it's a 10 hr drive or fairly expensive flight for her + 3 kids/1 lap kid. She's expected to be in town for Christmas; I Love You Day; and probably like 2-3 other events/year; plus her family seems to come down to Fla in various combinations of people like 6 times/year at least. Given that she's already seeing them 10 times/yr, she's not adding another 1-2 visits involving a 10 hr drive/$$$ flights when nothing is going on just to catch up. And frankly there's no guarantee - she could go with the intention of catching up and OMG Carlin just got news from the high risk dr; Bradley and Carson are at the house being so adorable; OMG here's Whit at the house again . . . . Like there's no guarantee Kelly will ever ignore the daily chaos and give her the time of day. So I think she's prob like, I'm good - when I want that quiet family bonding time, I'm going to Papa Bill and Mama Jane. In their IGs tonight, Josie was talking about driving thru the night Wed night to get to Pa; and Carlin and Whit also mentioned leaving in 2 days. Makes sense as it's probably a Thursday rehearsal dinner with a Friday wedding. Bet Mama Jane and Papa Bill are driving up with A&J - makes sense why they rented a car to go to South Carolina as I don't think they normally do that - but they probably rented an 8-10 person van.

As much as I snark on them Alyssa's relationship with her grandparents is so sweet. She seems to love being at their house and seems so relaxed and at home there. John does too way more comfortable than he seems at G&K's house. Maybe it's just the fact that there's time to sit and talk with the grandparents and the grandparents seem like regular wise old people who probably have interesting stories and life advice, rather than say Kelly who spends her time screaming and squealing. And Mama Jane runs a tight ship - rather than the chaos and noise of G&K's house, where you visit and your kids get to enjoy the chaos of running with 50,000 cousins, but no one is really making time to sit and catch up just with you - bc here comes Law bursting thru the door w/ his latest story; omg here's Whit who I see daily but she's here; omg Carlin is pregnant; now Bradley or Carson want attention etc. I think they drove up this weekend. I wonder if they're staying this week and then driving her grandparents with them up to Nathan's wedding in Pa. and then driving them back down next Sunday on the way back to Florida. I assume the wedding is this weekend bc they said Oct wedding and Esther posted pics of getting their marriage license - and they're running out of weekends in Oct. That'd be 2 weeks off of work for John which is a long time for him - normally Alyssa just visits the grandparents alone and then sometimes John joins here just for the weekend; but he's said before that he can take no time off in the summer due to Fla HVAC season so it's likely he gets to compensate for that lack of time off in the fall/winter.

Man these 2 are DESPERATE for a boy. They're not even staying sweet and saying "whatever the Lord gives us." Evan straight up said in today's YouTube, I'm feeling a boy, I want a boy, I already have a little girl. And Carlin goes - if this one is a girl, then I'm going to want child #3 to be a boy. The only way they make it sound "better" is both of them go - but I won't be mad about it if it's a girl (uh you can be mad or not, the kid is yours to deal with); and it'd be cute to see 2 little girls close in age. OMG I hope this isn't a John situation where he just can't make a boy. I mean I'm sure they'll have enough kids that they'll get some boys, but you never know - Evan's own dad took like 4 tries to make a boy . . . . And also interesting that as dumb as they are, they are going to an actual high risk dr this time and that high risk dr in consultation with another high risk dr. says that heparin has risks and she doesn't want to just pass it out freely with Carlin's combo of disorders; so Carlin isn't taking heparin during this pregnancy but faces clotting risk to HER for 6 weeks after delivery - so as soon as she delivers she'll have to be on clotting shots for herself for 2 months. Interesting to contrast that to Erin - who under the guidance of Vick who was wrapped around their fingers - basically just decided it was fine to take heparin yearly bc they had to have a kid yearly . . . until other issues cropped up; I mean maybe it was ok bc Erin has a different set of disorders but IDK Vick just doesn't seem as sophisticated as these specialists. Seems like he hears clotting, my sisters have it, and off you go w/ heparin; Carlin was on heparin w/ kid #1 like the second she peed on the stick. While these specialists seem to be taking a more detailed approach w/ genetic testing to find out exactly what the disorders are, how they interact w/ each other, and what the risks vs. benefit of heparin are in this exact situation. These girls just aren't built to birth that many kids much to their shock I'm sure - btwn Carlin/Josie/Erin/Tori all have clotting issues; Michaela (and/or Brandon) having unexplained fertility issues; and Alyssa's heart problems. You'd think the girls w/ the clotting issues would pop out 2 babies, thank their lucky stars for healthy moms/babies and close down the shop. And yet you have Carlin already taking about baby 3 - despite the significant post delivery risks to her??! You've got Josie talking about #3 already and Kelton has said 5 (recently - not like he said it pre wedding before he knew all this, he's said it after they've already had 2); and Erin doing whatever the hell she's doing to make babies!? And if the girls are too stupid to figure out that their taking real risks here, you'd think their headships would make the decision for them -- but nope -- most of the headships (except Bobby) are too focused on getting at least 2 sons and they don't have that yet.

I actually DO think there is a control issue with Kelton -- just by how they interact; how she never dares rib him even jokingly like most people do with a spouse; how she'd never dares snap at him or talk back like Alyssa and Erin do even on camera. I definitely think he wears the pants in that marriage and she 100% knows that. How he wants to live is how they will live. He has said he wants 5 kids - and I think they will have 5 come hell or high water, Josie's blood disorder or PPA - well she'll just have to figure that out. But to give him the benefit of the doubt, I think he's an extremely planned out person - which is what allowed him to get his plumbing license at 16, then go to college, then run his uncle's business, and then start his own and expand it really quickly all by age 26. And I think that same planning extends to his family too -- like he came into marriage 100% having a vision of how his home life will be and the wife WILL MAKE IT SO and once he realized he married someone with no home skills - he took to "teaching her" how he wants to live. I think he has gotten her "buy in" along the lines of -- oh babe you don't know these things, here let me teach you about business, life, raising a family, and running a household and together we'll be this fundie power couple with the perfect family, home, and life. And she goes with it - bc she knows he's going to get what he wants anyway + she doesn't like her own family/how she was raised + likely she sees how he was raised versus her and she wants what he had (I think he grew up with some $ as his dad owned his own IT business for years though sold it). I think Kelton was very clear in his own head - he'd have a nice home; it would be kept well by the wife - not a pig sty like Carlin's; his kids would be clean and well dressed and well fed - not being raised on lunchables and frozen PBJ sandwiches; there would be dinner on the table for him at 5 pm nightly. And if his wife didn't know how to do these things, he'd "train her." I mean Josie was also one of the ones who came into marriage with the - oh IDK how to cook; guess what - she cooks. It isn't the most elaborate stuff like Erin but she's routinely posting pics of making roasts; chicken and rice; tacos; etc. and they aren't running to get fast food 4 days/wk. His approach to life is much different than his brothers in law. Bestie Bobby fell into plumbing bc he didn't know what else to do but wanted to work w/ Kelton; Chad - started at the metals co bc that's the only job he could find in Knox; Evan - medical office receptionist who decided ok I need to make $ eventually, fine electrician it is. And John and Chad - yeah they know life will be how their wives want it and they dare say nothing about it.

How old do you think Alyssa, Katie, and Josie were when they met their husbands? And how old do you think they were when they started pestering for a ring? We’ll wait. I think you have an overly rosy view of who these girls are. Just bc they dress nicer than the Duggars doesn’t mean they’re different.

Give me a break, I don't think anyone gives Addie or Ellie a choice re babysitting. Now I'm not saying it's "against their will" bc how can any of us know what they are actually thinking. Maybe they ARE ok with these trips to Florida because it's simply a choice of watching Z&W's brats all the time at home or going down to Fla to watch A&J's brats, and with Fla. they at least get a change of scenery, pool time, nice weather etc. But let's not act like the sisters don't 100% use Addie and Ellie to dump their kids on so they can live as if they're child free or as if they're rich people with FT nannies. Addie and Ellie both came down for this trip and then Ellie left - presumably to "help" Carlin on the flight etc. and Addie stayed with FOUR kids including a baby so Alyssa could rush off to Miami to play IG influencer. Don't tell me Addie didn't have to do a lot for the kids -- EVEN IF John took the day off or the mother in law helped, YOU KNOW Addie had be to cooking, feeding and diapering too, not just chilling by the pool while the adults watched the kids. This isn't like when Jackson/Warden/Isiah visit and legit get to chill and if they give the kids 5 minutes of attention they are SUCH great uncles -- no one would dare expect them to feed or diaper a child or deal with their tantrums. Addie and Ellie had to be down at A&J's when they moved and in EVERY video they were either packing boxes or dealing with the kids. There have been other Fla. trips for Katie's weddings that were day trips - where they literally took Addie/Ellie from the airport to Alyssa's house - and off the rest of the sisters went to coffee and then dress shopping, lunch etc. and then went back home to pick up Addie/Ellie and returned to the airport. There have def been times where I have said - damn I at least hope one of the sisters or Kelly was nice enough to get a lunch packed at the restaurant for Addie/Ellie bc as "the help" all they've done all day is get up at 6 am to get to the airport and then dealt with diapers and tantrums!? It'd be one thing if they were paying these girls market rate but let's be real they 100% aren't. They're either acting like -- ooooh sister time let's all go down to Fla for wedding project #30000 of course A&E should come they're not little kids anymore -- but then upon landing, oh but someone needs to watch the kids, sorry A&E. Or they are acting like these 14-15 year old sisters "owe" them. OR it's -- so what's the big deal, when I was their age I had to watch 10 younger kids and cook for a family of 20+ people, they barely have to cook for 10 people and watch 2 little siblings and Whit's 4 kids, they have it so easy, why shouldn't they HAVE TO do this for me so I can live a little and pretend to be young and childfree?? I do wonder what'll become of Addie and Ellie. When G&K had a slew of girls to marry off, they used to spend a LOT of time "fellowshipping with sweet friends" and going to ATI and homeschool conferences and fundie weddings all over the place. That's how Brandon, John, and Evan all came onto the scene. AND the girls had ERIN who was REALLY aggressive -- calling John and basically "accusing" him of liking one of them and demanding to know who thus tying him to Alyssa; shoving Evan and Carlin together once she figured out he noticed her. Now Erin is just generally less interested/out of the family scene and Kelly doesn't seem like she and Gil really are into "fellowshipping" anymore as Kelly just seems to be loving the jet off to Florida or vacation or pedicures with her older daughters - type of life. Hope Addie and Ellie both enroll in Crown and make some christian conservative friends and hope to meet their brothers/cousins bc otherwise I don't see G&K nor the sisters really ensuring they meet a guy to marry in 2 years.

Alyssa is such an idiot and Kelly def did not raise her daughters to be good housewives. Does she not realize her husband is wanting to pack lunch to save money? He mentioned money more than 1x in a segment that was not even 5 min long - that a salad at a fast food place costs like $12; and at the end he was like - 5 days of lunches for $14 total otherwise I'm spending at least $10/day. And Alyssa really couldn't think of any better ideas rather than pouring bottled sauce on huge chicken breasts and what looked like unseasoned hunks of broccoli? He's going to eat that for 5 days - same thing daily - and tire of it and have to go back to buying; those huge chicken breasts are going to be totally bland on the inside as they were so thick and not marinated in any way so the outside will have some taste and the inside won't. She was just hinting he should buy lunch bc she doesn't want to be bothered, as she lamented that all day life gets in the way and kids and then at night they have to do chores like this. Uh yeah sweetie - you wanted a husband and 4 children under age 6 at 26, did you not think this would involve work and real life chores like cooking to save $$; did you think you'd just take IG videos all day and brag how #blessed you are?? I doubt he's said no sandwiches ever bc they're soggy, as he even said I ate the sandwiches but a sandwich daily ugh. She can't do a few different menu items for him? Say sandwiches 2x/wk on a roll/italian bread that'll stay harder than regular bread and packed separately so he's putting the meat and veggies on the bread himself before eating? And 2 days a week some type of meal like chicken/vegetable or pasta? And he can eat out 1x/wk? And stay home wife really can't come up with any solutions so he's not eating cold chicken? She really thinks he can go into a house on an AC job and be like - yeah can I use your microwave - or go looking for a Panera and use a microwave there? Sure there are microwaves at places like Wawa and certain nicer gas stations where workers do warm up food - but otherwise has she not heard of thermoses, hot packs, making food that is edible lukewarm - which Teriyaki chicken is not?? But yeah must jet off to Miami to prove what an influencer I am and go eating out at relatively nice places - not over the top but sit down Italian that wasn't Olive Garden; Smith & Wollensky isn't cheap either. Sure their Miami shopping was NBD and looked like a big box store like Childrens Place and IDK if they stayed in a hotel - but tix and 1 hotel night (if not w Tikki) does cost SOMETHING. Yet when her husband tries to save money - ugh so annoying to have another chore of making lunch. Uh sweetie I know you're dumb but $10/day = $50/wk which for 50 weeks = $2500. I don't think you are sooo rich than $2500 doesn't matter - think about how much Sbux, overnight trips, and junk clothing it'll buy for you and the girls?!

They were on vacation in Destin which a 6 hr+ drive from Orlando, so they couldn't easily stop by. But I do think if it was important to Josie to be there, there is no reason they couldn't have vacationed at the beaches near Tampa which are 90 min away- and Josie could have driven there by herself or with the youngest kid for 1 day out of their weeklong vacation; or they could have planned their Destin vacation vs. the trip with Katie at different times. Something about Josie and Kelton just seems off to me. He comes off controlling in that "such a nice successful guy" in front of others but at home it's "his way or the highway" demeanor. It's always weird that if she ever does any kind of "spontaneous" IG live like taking questions etc. with him there, she HAS to sit around complimenting him about how smart he is, how fabulous of a business man he is, how successful he is, what a blessing he is, how he's teaching her or helping her with X blah blah as he sits there soaking it in; she just did this tonight gushing about how he's helped her so much in balancing motherhood vs. working by having her come up with "systems" for getting tasks done. You don't see Alyssa, Carlin etc. forcibly gushing about how much they learn from their men and how they'd be bumbling fools without them (I mean they are fools but in any event their men don't seem to EXPECT gushing, it just happens spontaneously sometimes not every time). I think he's drawn some hard lines with the Bates family vs. his family and those lines INCLUDE Josie; like if he doesn't want to hang out with the Bates, fine, but I feel like he "stops her" or "disapproves" enough that she doesn't go even though she otherwise would have. Yet on the flip side when it's his family, she MUST go - she's always there at his dad's house, on lame weeklong camping trips etc. They're young as long as she can manage the kids (bc let's be real Kelton ain't doing much esp with girl children), IDK why they can't ever be apart? Why can't he go camping with his family for a few days and she goes down to Fla. with Katie and co. for a day or two for wedding things as long as she can bring the kids? Carlin def goes on trips with her family even if Evan can't - this Fla. trip; prior Fla. trips; ski trips or South Carolina trips where Evan doesn't come or shows up at the end for a weekend. I realize he has his business so he can't just close up shop for every random last minute Bates trip, but her business is selling barrettes by mail - it's not that big of a deal for orders to wait 3 days. I wonder if the sisters are pissed at her/don't understand because yeah the 25 posts for Katie's birthday were a bit over the top, like she was compensating/apologizing for not coming with Katie on this trip, nor on the girls trip they did recently to the beach before her wedding etc. I feel like Josie is the only one with a husband of the controlling personality. Evan and John are pretty laid back and their wives kind of wear the pants anyway; Chad is whipped by Erin if she wanted to go, he'd be watching all 4 kids but I think they're on the same page re mom's place at home; Tori seems like SHE doesn't like the hassle of traveling and dealing with the kids for yet another sister thing but I don't get the sense at all that it's Bobby - if anything I think Bobby may love a few days apart; same with Brandon/Michaela - I don't see Brandon stopping her from going as much as Michaela may think eh this is for the younger girls, I'll feel out of place etc.

Why is it sooo offensive to observe that certain siblings are living large yet it's ok to say - stop risking your health to having more babies; stop making your existing kids have the burden of praying for new babies? After all they're not doing anything wrong having kid after kid even if it's one high risk pregnancy after the next or burdening Carson with praying for a brother, it's a personal choice. You can accept it or not but certain siblings are living large. I'm not saying it's wrong - a huge % of America lives beyond its means. But they don't seem to get that they're living large on income that is temporary - their fame comes from the show, which gives them followers for IG and YT and buyers from their boutique. Guess what the show isn't going to last 20 more years; if it goes away in 1 yr or 5, all those other revenue sources go away too as it takes people one second to forget their favorite reality tv people and jump onto the next batch of reality stars. Think about how many has beens there are from American Idol, the Bachelor, the Voice etc. -- and those are shows with tens of millions of viewers on network, not 100k views on a low ranked cable channel; when they post videos at the height of their fame, they aren't getting 60k views, they are getting millions -- I wouldn't be doing backflips over a few hundred dollars a week from 60k views. Just like I don't think John or Evan make SUCH great $$ -- I mean YMMV but those types of tradesmen tend to make 60k-110k -- a respectable living but this isn't 1990, 100k isn't what it used to be and these people are setting up lives with 8-10 mouths to feed, not families of 4. And no none of us have seen their paychecks or bank accounts but it's JOHN that has said "we're really bad with money" in more than 1 video; it's EVAN that has said "I'm a young father, I'm worried about money" and also talks about 2 for 1 fast food deals and budgeting apps. I mean if money is no object, why are they saying those things?

Lol. I can so picture this. Roast beef for 3, potatoes, mac and cheese, and the other spices, milk/cream for potatoes that they needed - could not be less than say $25, so more like $30-35 with immediate home delivery as I'm sure this was all last minute and then throw it all out and spend $15 on pizza. So yep $50 on dinner on a random Tuesday night, yep that's normal when you're an apprentice with a wife cobbling together income from social media and her store. And kudos on the home training Kelly. They couldn't save boxed mac and cheese?? There are directions on the box? Or potatoes - like if you don't know how to turn them into real mashed potatoes, you can't throw them in the oven and bake them and then add cheese, butter, salt, pepper etc. and eat them as smashed potatoes? Even the roast, who is going to throw out meat costing at least $15?? If the instant pot didn't work, all you really need to worry about it cooking it safely even if it doesn't turn out as an actual roast? Like you can't throw some more spices on that and throw it in the oven for the rest of the night and then slice it up for sandwiches the rest of the week and if it's dry, throw some mayo/cheese on the sandwich? I'm not saying they had to eat any of this that night and feed it to Katie (though having Katie visit is hardly like having the queen of england) - but most normal people just starting out would at least salvage the food and eat it in different forms for other meals, not just toss it?? And as more time has gone by and they aren't force to live together and act like each others' besties, I think the judgments between sisters have grown. Like Erin who can cook and Michaela who always cooked would hear this story and both be like OMG what morons - M may not express it but I can see some judgment coming from Erin about how Carlin isn't a good wife bc she can't cook dinner if she heard and then the distance grows bc Carlin thinks she's perfect and likely hates anyone criticizing her. Frankly for as close as this family acts like they are - in most families a young couple starting out who ran into trouble with this would call a mom or sister who'd talk them thru on the phone either how to salvage the dinner or how to at least cook the food and eat it in other ways later. Guess they're not as close as they act . . . .

I do think Kelly is LOVING living this life with them. All the stuff she probably wanted to do when she was young but never did bc she got married right after college and had Z and then a train of kids pretty quick and money was super tight. I think eating all that junk works for them for now because they are young with fast metabolisms AND I think they don't eat regular meals, so they get junk calories daily + 1 fast food type meal maybe every other day and with that meal I can see the girls not eating the fries or sharing the meal with their kid etc. bc they know it's unhealthy. I think that still keeps them under calorie requirements. I'm sure they're not getting required nutrition eating no fruits and vegetables, but in your 20s you can get away with that as many/most people do in college etc. It only catches up to you in your later 30s/40s if you're lucky - earlier 30s if you're less lucky. I mean they are vain - Carlin and Katie should take a look at Kelly. The woman is enormous - if that's not what they want for the future, maybe start cutting back the chick fil a. And I was kind of stunned to see Carlin giving the kid chicken nuggets to eat at the drs office. First that's gross - I mean sitting on a drs. table - it's not exactly the cleanest environment!? I know drs. offices are trying to keep things clean but just think of how many other kids have sat on that table in just diapers and yep given your kid food that she drops on the table, picks up and eats. And way to show to the dr that you feed your kid junk. I mean all drs know that all kids eat chicken nuggets and other fried junk but must you demonstrate it by having them smell it and see the box when they enter?

There are definitely financial differences at play as well between Chad/Erin (and prob Bobby/Tori and Brandon/Michael) vs. Carlin/Katie/Alyssa/Whit. I think the latter group is absolutely spending every $ that comes in. The housing isn't actually all that nice for Carlin or Katie. Carlin lives in a tiny rental cottage no bigger than Erin but it just doesn't seem that way bc it isn't packed with 4 kids. And Katie's fiance bought a tiny very old rancher in NJ that he's gutting and it too will be packed once they have more than 2 kids (Alyssa and Whit have bigger homes but their husbands take out mortgages and then gut renovate the homes - with renovations being of varying quality). But yeah I do think every $ that comes in the door is spent and a lot of the showy stuff - meals out; jewelry; shopping; constant mani/pedis and fancy hair salons - - comes from the wives' extra income - so the boutique (which may or may not last) + the Youtube video/insta income/show income (which certainly won't last for the rest of their lives as there are always new reality starts and old ones are yesterday's news). Even day to day they spend SO much given that these aren't people who are making THAT much - I mean we're not talking dr or lawyer salaries here. Like Carin and Whit are constantly going to the convenient store next door to the boutique to pick up lunch, snacks, and bottled Frappuccinos. Are you seriously making SO much money that it doesn't matter if you drop $10-20 each on junk nearly daily? You really can't make a grocery store run and buy snacks to keep at the business rather than spending $6 each time you want a snack? I had looked it up before and YT videos on average make $3-5 per 1000 views. Looking at Carlin's view numbers - in a lame week where she really has no story line she'll get 60k views = $180. In an absolutely newsworthy week she's gotten up to 170k views (like announcing a pregnancy) = $510. If that evens out to say $300/wk on the low end, that's about 15k/yr extra that's coming in. For Alyssa I'd guess it's more like 8-10k/yr as she consistently has less views. So yeah I think that 8k for A&J and 15k for C&E is spent -- that's how they always have the newest phones; both John and Evan are apparently into good electronics; Evan was showing off their $500-700+ robot vacuum and they actually said a bottom line iRobot wasn't going to do. John has openly said more than once that they're SO bad with money and Evan always seems "concerned" about finances talks about how he budgets. But now Evan is talking about how they want to build a house - and they keep looking at land and McMansions being built. That I'm unclear on how they'd afford given that he's only an apprentice and your wife's variable boutique income and YT income may or may not count for much in qualifying for a mortgage. But I see them being the types who put in 2-5% down or the least they can and paying mortgage insurance bc it lets them have the showy home build they want. If they were wiser they would have saved all of the 15k in YT income for the last 2 yrs and oh look there's another 30k going into the downpayment/closing costs but then how would you show off that you get junk from Amazon daily? Aside from having different ideas on the meaning of life (which they do - I think the showier couples also have a showier view on faith than the other couples), I also have the sense that Chad/Erin, Bobby/Tori, and Brandon/Michael haven't tried to include themselves in the Whit and Carlin special circle bc they don't want to (or can't) spend $$$ like that. They don't have the same side incomes to begin with so they're mostly all living on husbands' income - Tori entirely; Michaela may make something from her blanket business but I'm not thinking it's 15k/yr. I do think those couples try to save some of what comes in the door. Chad/Erin I think try to save a lot as they intend to (want to) have child yearly AND will only pay cash for a house. Bobby/Tori and Brandon/Michael prob try to save normal amounts to have something in the bank. Bobby/Tori just bought a house and I really don't see Bobby as being dumb enough to put down 2% - it may or may not have been 20% but I'm betting it was a healthy down payment and I can see Brandon doing the same when they buy.

Looking at the newborn pics they posted of their daughter, fatherhood seems to really suit Bobby. He looks genuinely happy when he's with his kids. Happy to see it because he seemed kind of miserable with his annoying wife when he first came onto the scene and working a plumbing job he didn't want. I imagine things are overall better now as he doesn't do any plumbing and just manages Kelton's business - which is probably more what he wanted anyway. And plus now with 3 kids he may not be dealing with the wife as much - it's possible that he's a hands on kind of dad always changing diapers, getting a child to stop crying, feeding a kid, playing with a kid etc. - so there's no time to sit and listen to Tori complain about anything. Or with 3 kids it could be divide and conquer anyway so he's with whichever kid he's responsible for for that evening, not as much with Tori. I can see them having 6+ kids or even 10 bc he does not seem averse to it at all, it seems like he kids are keeping him going; I guess it's a matter of if they can - as I think Tori has the clotting issue too. Plus does Bobby have any concerns about how to support 10 kids, as Kelton can only pay him so much and Bobby grew up upper middle class, so he may start to have a problem with having so many kids that they sleeping on stackable shelves like Chad and Erin's kids. Though Bobby and Tori I think have a 3 bedroom home - could be 4 as it's about the size of Z&W's old home since it's next door. So it's not nearly as bad as C&E but 3 bedrooms means 2 kid bedrooms - so 3-4 kids/room which is NOT how Bobby grew up.

Haven't looked at the shower pics that closely but if I had to guess, I assume Chad/Erin's girls were there bc they brought all the girl grandchildren. I mean you need to indoctrinate girls young that weddings are sooo magical and the only life's dream there is, esp the girls that are already age 4+. They need to start getting ready for prince charming's arrival in 12 years. I assume the boy was with Brandon. Brandon is pretty good with kids so I'm sure he could watch him for 3 hrs but if he wasn't comfortable solo, I bet some combo of Zach, Bobby, and Brandon got together to hang with the boys or maybe they all went to Gil's and let the kids run wild there for 3 hrs. It's actually kind of stunning to me that Whit NEVER brings her kids out to stores, restaurants, their own store etc. NOT EVEN THE YOUNGEST. You know the BOY they desperately prayed for who is still likely breastfeeding and is probably no more than 3 mos old!? You could ditch the older ones under the guise of - oh this is for grownups you'll be bored - and bring the infant esp if Carlin and Josie are bringing their kid and Josie usually brings both bc Ithink Kelton views watching his girls as "babysitting" and only does it when he must - which is not for Josie's socializing. Whit and Carlin and Evan are definitely trying to live a life they never got to live bc they married at 21, 21 and prob like ~24 for Evan. They want to act all fundie wild and crazy - staying out late at each others houses even if it's just playing board games and watching movies; out to dinner all the time; ice cream runs at 10 pm etc. Carlin is constantly bragging about we didn't get home until after midnight bc we were having soo much fun. Z I don't think really cares to be like that but he's so awed by Whit that he just goes with what she wants. I get it - that's how it is in your early-mid 20s. But that's also why most people don't marry at 21 or even if they do, they hold off on kids for a while - so they can have fun, travel, party, just hang out and stay up late without worrying about dragging a kid along or a high risk drs appt in the morning or which kid is going to wake them up at 5 am the next day!? I mean Carlin and Evan live like college kids. They let gross dishes pile up all week and then do them; or let the trash overflow before they take it out. She constantly IGs about starting her day around 10 am-noon; at least Evan gets out the door at 6-7 am but I think that's only bc his apprentice program requires a start time. It's not a situation that to me screams - yes ready to settle down and make babies yearly. Chad, Erin, Bobby, and Tori don't naturally seem like that. I think they all wanted to get married and settle down ASAP with kids and are happy to have evenings be about bible stories, bath time, getting kids to eat dinner, and taking out the trash. I don't get the sense that they feel that they're missing anything by not chilling at others' homes until midnight or running out for ice cream at 10 pm. As much as Tori acted like Carlin when they were in the house together - loud/obnoxious etc. - I'm beginning to think it was just an act to fit in or she has outgrown it somewhat and is more low key IRL now.

What was the dig by Alyssa against Erin? Don't recall that one. I too wondered if something was up between Erin and Whit, as I noticed they had a bday party for Whit at G&K's house and Erin wasn't there. And then the day after (and many times since then too), there's all these pics of Carlin and Evan going out to brunch, dinner, etc. with Z&W and it's not exclusively those to 2 couples bc sometimes Kelly will come, sometimes Katie, whatever brothers are around etc. but NEVER Chad and Erin. And yeah also noticed she wasn't there the day before Whit's party when Carlin said everyone had stayed really late at G&K's house because Tiff's parents came to visit and in subsequent days when they went out to dinner w/ Law/Tiff etc. IDK if she went to Nathan and Esther's shower but yeah she's skipping Katie's for some marriage retreat - and presumably there are marriage retreats all the time, if your sister's shower was important to you, you could go to another one in a few weeks. Maybe it is lingering awkwardness with Whit and Carlin? It's not all post covid or pregnancy or bedrest or something bc she and Chad are out and about including going away for a weekend. I have noticed though Whit is REALLY quick to dump her kids and go out with Carlin ALL THE TIME as if she doesn't have 4 kids. Carlin just brings her one kid but Whit never does - if you look at all the pics from the dinners, brunches, shopping etc. Whit NEVER has her kids with her. I think she is very quick to use Addie/Ellie and (maybe her parents?) as FT babysitters so she can pal around with Carlin. And often Whit will be carrying around and baby talking Carlin's kid as if she doesn't have 4 of her own!? When Erin wasn't with them for 3 days in a row of dinners with Tiff/Law, then Whit's party, then brunch with Z&W, I do remember thinking -- hmm maybe Erin judges Whit for always going out w/o kids and doesn't want to do that? But maybe Whit and Carlin judge her for dragging her 4 kids around when they're pretending to be young hip couples on double dates so Erin is kind of like ok fine I won't go. I do get the feeling Erin and Chad want to live far more traditionally. I've noticed the same about Tori and Bobby too; I know she isn't big on social media but she doesn't attend 80-90% of these things bc if she did, you'd see her in the background of Whit and Carlin's pictures. I think for both of those couples, once they had kids - it became about the kids, family time, bedtime etc. While Z&W and Carlin/Evan kind of want to pretend they're young and hip and childless - either by dragging the kid along when it's practical (i.e. there's only 1) even if that mean the kid is randomly sleeping in restaurants or stores or dumping the kids.

Lol definitely NOT medical school. He could make it thru law school but not med - and I say that as a lawyer myself. He can't pass the bar which is ONE test. IDK how he passes the first 2 years of medical school where they have to pass exams every 6 weeks. Law school has finals at the end of every semester but it's just not the frequency of tests that they have in med school. Not to mention I assume his undergrad major was accounting. Who is going to pay for him to go back to college for at least 2 years to get all the science requirements + how is he going to study for the MCAT with Jilly sitting over him massaging his shoulders + what happens if the only med school he gets into is in Ohio or Florida, would they move?? I do agree though that he may not work in law. I assume he'll take the bar again - if he doesn't pass, career is over anyway. If he does pass, I can see him picking up some job at the Law Office of Joe Schmoe and doing some random small practice law for 1-2 years and then getting bored of it and moving on. IDK what he moves on to at the point but I assume it'd be a more general business or non profit type job and he'd just hold his law degree as a graduate degree, rather than using it as a practicing lawyer. I could see him ending up as an insurance broker or working for some non profit that aligns with his values or working for a university in an administrative type job (like the 1000s of roles they have for people working in everything from the registrar's office to the Dean of Students Office doing god knows what). Incidentally his brother has held each of these types of jobs.

I understand what people are saying about Covid but let's be real, this is Arkansas, I don't think the state had the same covid measures as the northeast and certainly not from May-July 2021 when things were looking pretty good and restrictions were lifted everywhere as the vaccine rolled out and Delta hadn't spread yet. But even if there WERE restrictions in Arkansas, reality is law schools are VERY concerned about their students passing the bar, not because they care but because it is a reportable stat which directly affects law school rankings. So if in May of his 3L year, he had said to the Library or the Dean of Students office - I'm planning my bar studying but thing is I have a wife and 2 little kids and don't have the appropriate study set up at home, 100% guarantee the school would have reserved a library study room for him 40 hrs/wk. Or if they had some capacity restriction and couldn't, they'd give him a classroom for his use or reserved him a room in another library or academic building on campus. This is a large university which is largely empty starting in May once the undergraduate year ends; if there are too many law students around in the law library bc they're all studying for the bar, they can spread them out across campus. Certainly they would not say no to helping him out if he had said I NEED SOMEPLACE TO STUDY. But that would have required some self awareness from him, which he didn't have, bc as people say he's always easily been a solid B student in school so he figured he'd comfortably pass the bar too. But as @Rootbeer describes med school exams - this is like that; there is no comfortable studying, it is 12 hrs/day of intense no distractions studying to pass. I do agree with whoever above that said that Jill gets this from her parents and family. She has NEVER been in a household where a man leaves 40 hrs/wk for work. I mean JB was probably gone a few hrs/wk if that checking on rental properties; and now she's sees all of her married brothers and BILs basically home all the time except the few hours/wk they have a manual labor job for dad; are preaching someplace (though the wives usually go with); get a text and need to show up at the car lot for 15 min to show a car; or are flying to some small city an hr away (JD). I think when she saw Derick leave at 8 am daily for his 6 months at Walmart, just the concept was upsetting to her. She's further along than that now, as he went to law school full time and she dealt with it, but in her mind in order for their marriage to be good, they STILL have to be together AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, which I think means if he's home they MUST be together. Even if that means he's studying, she at least must sit on the couch with him or sit across from his desk looking at him. And having never studied before, she doesn't understand things like intense studying vs. casually doing busy work while chatting. But this is on Derick here. He either needs to get her used to the idea that it's fine to be home and doing their own thing esp now since he has to study from home. Or if he can't get her used to that - then leave the house as he used to for law school and will be soon for work. I honestly don't think she's as bothered by him being gone as she used to be. I think she even likes it - making her Youtube videos; doing housework; gardening; etc. I think she probably secretly likes that downtime but then when he comes back she feels she MUST smother him with constant attention in order to be a good wife/have a good marriage. And I think Derick loves the doting wife following him around.

Exactly. Every employer in America is hiring. Jill can get a job even with her dining room table education right now. If she's worried about being spotted, there's lots of ways around that. Maybe don't work at the only Walmart in town. Work for a smaller specialty retailer. Are there tons of Duggar fans routinely coming into your local appliance store or hardware store or warehouse that specializes in lighting fixtures or furniture or countertops? Ask the specialty retailer whether you can have a job that isn't in the front of the house. Right now they need people for everything including stocking shelves to scanning products into inventory. And it's a pandemic still, mask up. Though to be clear I don't think it's Jill's issue at all that Derick failed. He's a grown man who has gone to college and law school. He knew what he needed to do to study and he just didn't. But I do think she 100% cannot entertain herself even still and if he's home, she does feel like it's fine to go sit in his office and eat breakfast or go sit next to him on the couch because after all, he's just reading. AND when she does this, it's not like she is also reading something challenging and she simply wants to sit there but not be interrupted. She's eating her bagel looking around the room and then of course the chit chat begins and there's the distracted studying. This isn't like doing homework where you can talk but as long as you solve the problems, you're done. This is studying like understanding logic and reasoning and committing things to memory, which is hard to do if you're chatting. But again he's a grown man, if he knew he couldn't concentrate at home -- he could've been at the library full time. If he opts to study for round 2 at home, he needs to be very clear with Jill and the kids - when his office door is shut, he is studying. No one is to come interrupt him for anything unless it's an actual emergency. If he misses a meal, eat without him and he'll grab something when he next has a break. Do they watch TV? He also needs to get Jill hooked on a book - even a kids series like Babysitters Club that she could read over months - and/or a TV show/soap opera to occupy her downtime.

Lawyer here - IDK but I don't think Derick is one of the ones who failed because he didn't have mastery of one section like Evidence or Constitutional Law or something. First of all it's really hard to know that any way. You get a pass/fail, not an analysis of what you did right and wrong. There's no way that 3 months after the fact anyone is going to recall the precise questions that they had trouble on or the precise answers/what answers they picked. I mean I couldn't have told you that when I left the convention center where I took the bar exam (or after any other law school exam either) - it's like I was so focused and in the zone at the moment that if an hour later someone said (as competitive law students are apt to do) hey for that question on rule against perpetuities, I was more apt to be like - wait there was a question on that?? Not because I was being coy but I legit could not remember after the fact due to the hyper focus in the exam. I just don't see Derick as the type who didn't master 1-2 topics, as much as I see him as someone who was overconfident on ALL the topics. Like I can see him lesuirely studying all the topics evenly - rather than focusing more of his time on areas he found more difficult; or frankly even skipping the areas he found more difficult (which you do to an extent in bar study but VERY calculated. From Barbri if you know that on avg the test asks 1 multiple choice question on x but 25 on Contracts and you can't get x for the life of you, towards the end of your prep time, you let go of x and make sure you know Contracts forward and backwards). But I can see him using that skipping approach on topics where he knew 10 questions would be asked not just 1. And we've seen his leisurely studying from his exams. I mean it clearly just didn't work for him to study for 1 hr, then have Jill in his office chatting and eating breakfast while he studied for the next hr; then running out to the chiropractor; then 45 min more of studying; then lunch, take out the trash, train the dog; then 2 more hrs of studying oh but with Jill literally sitting over you so her crotch is behind your head and she's massaging your shoulders; and oh then family time. Like WTH this is law school, not 6th grade!? If that's the effort and focus that went into the bar, I'm not at all surprised. It needs to be a 40-50 hour job IN THE LIBRARY where there is nothing to do but study. If he wants family time and/or Jill complains that he's not spending time with her and the boys, fine his choice to then do that 40-50 hrs in 4 days working 10-13 hrs/day and then 3 whole days with his family. He has 4.75 months. That's typically more time than you need esp if you're doing Barbri - usually people study ~2.5 months from mid May law school graduation until end of July bar. But honestly if I were him I'd be terrified of failing again and just start now. We all know that there will be a week off for Thanksgiving + the wk before Christmas + Christmas/NY week, so really he has 4 months. He's proven 2.5 wasn't enough for him, take the 4 months Derick.

I can't tell if he's lost weight but he 100% must be stressed. Along with failing the bar it's very likely he lost any job he had lined up too. Many (most) legal employers aren't super forgiving about that; they're not going to let someone on board (which at the latest happens in the last week of Sept/first wk of Oct) knowing they've failed the bar. If you're lucky, they'll "hold" the job for you for when you pass the next one in February 2022. But these days most employers don't even care that much. They'll tell you "good luck to you. Once you pass the bar, feel free to reach out and we can see if we have any openings then [and then you can go thru the whole interview process and maybe get an offer or not]." I mean maybe he has some super generous employer who will let him start working - and his start date is next week so we don't know it - PLUS take it easy on him work-wise so he can focus on studying. While that used to be common 15-20+ years ago, it's not now. It's also possible he had no job lined up. IDK that Arkansas is the type of school where 99% of people graduate with a job offer in hand but I doubt it. In that case, you job search starting in late July/mid August (after his bar trip) after you've taken the bar and you can honestly say you took the bar but don't know the results yet. BUT if you don't land a job or are still in an interview phase when the bar results come out, 100% interviewers will ask - you passed right, and you can't lie bc it'll take them 2 seconds to check the publicly available list. So yeah he's kind of screwed and unlike many law students he's not 25 and single and can just live with roommates or move in with mom and dad. He's got a wife and kids and sure it seems like they have some money which enabled them to buy the house etc, IDK if the house has a mortgage, there are bills like car insurance, utilities etc. and the kids need to eat. So yeah good luck Derick. Maybe start hitting the books 40-50 hrs/wk. I know it's 5 months away which may be too far out, but for someone who didn't pass the first time - certainly by 3 months out ~Nov 22, start studying full time. And since that falls right at Thanksgiving and then there's the whole celebrate Jesus daily around Christmas which Jill will frown upon cutting back, maybe start a few weeks early - knowing you'll take time off for Thanksgiving and your Christmas studying will be Jill sitting next to you wrapping presents.

Hmm so I assumed Jill was posting 7000 YouTube videos of the same trip bc $$$. I have no interest in watching them but clicked on a bunch to see how many views she's getting, it was 31k (day 1); 14k (around day 3); 8k (around day 5). Per a google search, most "regular" (not super famous) people make $3-5 per 1000 views of a YT video -- so these brought in $155, $70; $40 (I know there's days I left out, wasn't about to check each one). So looks like around ~$265 off of these and probably another ~265 off of the ones I didn't check = $530. If Jilly's Youtube is paying the bills right now, I would be STRESSED if I were Derek. Don't get me wrong - $500 will buy food for a month (prob more bc I'm sure she knows how to stretch) or pay the utilities, but a family of 4 just needs more than that. Though I wouldn't be surprised if he is working on the DL. We've seen him drive for Grubhub before, he could be doing that; or legit working anyplace in retail or restaurants since they are all hiring everywhere and paying like 40k/yr ($15-20/hr) often with a few hundred or even a thousand in a signing bonus. And IDK if Arkansas does this but often if students fail the bar/can't get a job, schools will cook up a job at the law school for said graduate -- it's hourly and it's not more than 10-20 hrs/wk of research for a professor but it helps law schools keep their employability stats up so they don't have to report in Vault/US News Ranking that a large % of students were unemployed at graduation and it allows the grad to keep searching for a real job and have something law related to discuss in the interviews and not say they're sorting boxes at FedEx; you can work your survival job for $$$ but leave it off the law resume. But yeah those aren't career jobs and the school holds onto you for no more than 12 mos (bc then those jobs go to next yr's grads who need to appear employed even if they aren't for real).

Yeah the steak was G&K and it was a teenage Nathan (or maybe Law) who revealed that if mom and dad go out for date night and have ANY leftovers they bagged them up - even 1 bite of steak (bc Gil was probably like I paid for it, why would I leave it) and then the kids would fight to get it. I actually don't think the Bates kids were as stretched thin for food as other fundie families. Like I feel like we've seen coverage over the years with Kelly saying out how many pounds of potatoes or chicken were needed and it always seemed like it was a TON of food to feed the army, in fact with GIL being the cheap one saying why do we need so much, and Kelly still going ahead and saying nope this is what we need. Now I'm positive it was warehouse club chicken or potatoes and certainly not the Purdue they constantly do product placements for now, but they WERE eating meat. I assume it was a lot of casseroles - which stretches out smaller portions of meat with pasta and creamed soups. In any event they had meals and let's be real the Bates kids weren't super thin. In fact Z was portly pre marriage and frankly Josie/Carlin/Alyssa were all healthier looking pre marriage when they were getting actual regular meals at G&K's house rather than doing the - I don't cook; I don't need to eat; I just drink coffee all day - thing they do now. Yet obviously they weren't getting the finer things. They weren't going out to restaurants and certainly weren't getting Sbux daily or fast food 3 times/wk like they all do now. They weren't getting fruit all that often - as evidenced by the fact that when Alyssa was prepping for Allie's 1st bday, her family came down and siblings were helping in the kitchen and were sneaking grapes and strawberries like they'd never had them before. And I'm not saying out of control Jeb and Jud - I'm talking like Nathan, Law, Carlin/Tori etc.; like even when Alyssa was getting pissed that the platters weren't getting set up bc they just kept shoving fruit in their mouths. I mean maybe John is getting 2nds but whatever those 2nds are it isn't enough given that the man is routinely running out to McDs and Dominos at 9 pm after having dinner at home. He needs to assume his wife isn't going to solve this problem bc it's not her problem and take up grilling like Kelton. He's an enormous 30 yr old guy with a manual labor job and seems reasonably active outside work too like with softball etc., guys like that consume a ton of calories. It may slow down by 35 or 40 but Alyssa may be incorrectly assuming that he can eat a bit more than her or eat how she's seen Nathan/Law/Trace eat over the years when the reality is those guys aren't as huge as John AND don't do much -- you're burning fewer calories sleeping until 10 am, lounging around the house and every few days often going out on a flight or to caulk a shower for Chad's business.