Jean

You want Will dead in a couple of episodes? Or turned into a puppy for her? Cause that's what's bound to happen if he victimizes her. I don't want Will anywhere near that black hole of massive suck. She's like a succubus of personality so I can't entirely blame Sean Maguire or Hood. Who can do anything with the dreck they give him? He's not a real character. He's a prop for Woegina just like most things on the show are. Just look at Snow. Not even Ginny can make Snow palatable as Woegina's biggest ass kisser and I think she's their 2nd best actor after Carlyle. As for the Frozen/Storybrook connection I thought they said it was EM's character that was the bridge? At first I thought Hook might've been it but that's only based on how he seems to be filming with Elsa a lot.

I'll rewatch certain scenes but I can't sit through entire episodes again. I can't even do that for new episodes anymore. I'll watch certain clips for certain characters and get the gist of the bigger picture through chatter on here. Bleeding Through was the last straw. The worst part is the newer episodes taints my enjoyment of some of the older episodes that I loved/liked. Bleeding Through ruined Miller's Daughter and Cora a bit for me even though that's still my favorite all time episode. Rumbelle post S1 tainted Skin Deep. I still can't believe how they utterly destroyed the charm of Belle and Rumbelle from Skin Deep. Hat Trick is the lone exception. Thank you whomever that Sebastian Stan is too big for this dinky show.

See I don't mind that Elsa and co. are temporary. I hope they are in fact. These writers have proven that the longer they have a toy, the only direction they can go with it, is down. See Cora, Snow etc. And nothing matters in this show in the long run. You only have to look at the main characters for that. If Elsa were long term I have no doubt they would manufacture some cheap drama and the next thing you know, Emma and Elsa will be fighting each other over crushed vs cubed ice and their friendship will be ruined. Also Frozen and property is probably not all under A&E's control. Disney would need to let them have them long term and I don't see that. It gives them less control over story. I'm willing to bet Disney would rather have Frozen as its own show rather than let Elsa be supporting on some other show.

I might be the only one but I'm tired of the dynamic between most of the main cast by now. It's the same thing over and over for the past 2 seasons and they're not even interesting to begin with. I rather see Rumple with Elsa and EM's character than mooning over Belle. Hell I'm even excited to see him with annoying Henry cause that's new. I'm way more excited to see Emma with her new friend Elsa and the buddy cop trio of Emma, Will and Charming or whatever the hell they're doing breaking into ice cream shops than Emma with Snow or Emma getting thrown under a plane and run over for Woegina. Hook with Will should be fun as hell, at least for a little bit. They need new blood and I'm happy that it's Will, Elsa and EM's character. I thought that but really it doesn't say too much about their opinion on Maguire does it? It also might be a budget thing and they're limited to how many people can be on contract. Anyhow Woegina doesn't need a live person to interact with. She can just as easily cry and whine over a cardboard or CGI image of Hood. Let's be real, that's the whole point of Hood and they basically said as much. Whatever story they need Will for, requires an active actor. Yeah I had read that before. It was smart of them considering I think "Let It Go" is what made Frozen into such a big hit. At least they went back and recognized that they had to change Elsa and the story and not make her evil for that song to work the way they wanted it to. If that had been A&E, Elsa would've been left unchanged and we would've gotten "Anna is evil and victimized poor poor Elsa."

I thought Rumple drank the potion for one reason and that was for Bae's sake and not his own and I do think it was entirely in character. Emma told him that "Bae" died a hero and not to take that away from him. What are Rumple's 2 biggest issues in life that has colored everything he's done. Being labeled a coward like his father and abandoning Bae. He already knew he fixed one of them by reuniting with Bae. The other hit him right where it counted. I think it was enough for him to know that Bae died a hero, and didn't end up a coward like him and his dad. For Rumple, Bae broke the family cycle. Note: I think this is all bs of course cause I don't think Neal died a hero at all so it took away the impact a bit.

Do we really want to hear more delusional sound bites from A&E? Gems like, Woegina never raped Graham cause we didn't see penetration onscreen, bratty Snow murdered Cora, the wood taser is our biggest regret ever, etc. All their interviews aka the Woegina worshipping sermons aren't enough? I rather have the behind the scenes stuff like that dance rehearsal or the wardrobe people. How awesome was it that they picked a crocodile shoe for Emma when Rumple was playing "god father?" We would've never known stuff like that if it wasn't for actors' tweet and whatnot. I'd like to hear the wardrobe people on Snow and Belle's clothes. Or the directors in the episodes. I rather hear their thoughts than A&E.

They're calling Hans a sociopath? He's definitely Eva's brother and Snow's uncle then.

Yes it'll happen when, as Robert said it's the "end of Rumple or the show." But I'm pretty positive pregnant Belle is in the cards too. I've noticed EdR has a sly way of letting out spoilers as speculation that most people don't really notice. She posted a picture of a wedding dress and said at the beginning of S3 that it would be pretty cool for Rumbelle to get married and here we are. Just a couple of weeks ago she said the same thing about Rumbelle having a kid no? No no it wouldn't. It would only make him fit in the Stiltskin family all that much more! Now that family has a history of going after family blood. Maybe then Belle will finally proclaim that he has a good heart like his great whatever in law.

The wardrobe people have a wicked sense of humor. They should lend some of that to the writers. This makes me wish we had gotten a feature of the wardrobe/costuming people over the other stuff.

Lana herself said she was told at the beginning of S3 that Woegina killed Marian. I hope Marian sticks around for a long time and the triangle goes on forever. As long as Robin and Marian keep Woegina contained and away from contaminating other characters, they can stay forever. Someone needs to take one for the team now that Snow is sitting on a couch offscreen with Baby Snowflake. Somehow I don't think the Rumple and Hook mini spat is going to be a big deal. It's probably just for Ep. 4 which I think is Hook's episode not Rumple's. I'm actually really looking forward to Rumple, Hook, and Will together. The snark is going to be out of control. Is Ep. 6 going to be Belle's centric or Rumbelle? Cause otherwise it looks like Rumple won't have one for awhile. And there's still an Elsa centric to do.

Honestly I think they just like writing for Snow and not Charming so Snow gets all the drama stuff. They also really take the stereotypical stance of mom/kid is more important than dad/kid except for Rumple but that's self-explanatory. But you know what? I'll take it. They suck at drama so I rather watch Emma and Charming teaming up on adventures or whatever instead of the hand wringing drama they give Snow. It does her character no favors. I'm pretty sure they considered it tidy and finished with Emma admitting that she's been a cold bitch to her parents. I'm not sure it needs to be raked up again at this point. It's the 4th season and you get a sense of damn move on and this should all be water under the bridge by now. This is what happens when they sit on their asses, picking their noses and do nothing. Lost opportunity and all.

So they are casting for Belle's mom. This rules out the Snow Queen and Maleficent. I'm going to guess Ep. 6 is when the crap hits the fan with the dagger thing.

Yeah the scene in the cave with the Charmings was probably Rumple at his most over the top and crazy intense but I do think it works in the context of the story. It could've been deliberate. Emma's name was the last thing he needed to get to Bae and probably the easiest and simplest thing to get out of everything that had lead up to that point. He was this close to his son and he could taste it. I think this is a detail that came later but then we saw that scroll in the jail where he obsessively wrote Emma a million times, so I do think it's perfect that he dropped the carefree giggly act this one time and you could see the desperation. Also the further we got along the season, we were moving backwards in the timeline from that prison scene. So I could see him still being mellow and putting on an act until he got that much closer to the curse getting enacted. I do agree that the flashbacks of the Charmings with Rumple don't really mesh especially those in S2 and S3 but we know the fairybacks suck in those seasons anyway. They didn't act scared of him until that prison scene. Yeah I loved Miller's Daughter but that was one detail I wished they would've kept. It would've been a good reason for why Rumple agreed to teach Cora magic and why he fell for her cause she outsmarted him. As for Rumple having power over knowing someone's name, he did have power over Emma's life. We saw her come to that realization in his fake prison cell and we've seen how the curse affected her life. I suspect that's all they wanted that name line for.

I don't think Rumple or Gold was presented as the pure evil in the pilot. He was more the mysterious and unknown factor. I think S1 was pretty much the only tightly planned season and story from the beginning. I think they were well aware that Rumple was the big shot plotting everything from the beginning. Considering they wrote the character with Robert in mind I'm sure they knew exactly what they were going to get with Robert in the role. We saw that Gold regained his memory in the pilot upon hearing Emma's name. We were introduced to Bae pretty early in the season and both Jen and Robert have said that they knew who Henry's father was since the beginning of the series. The only thing that I think might've changed and been influenced by fan reaction was Rumbelle after Skin Deep. They've been struggling to write for Rumbelle as a couple and fit Belle onto the canvas ever since. 2 seasons later and they still haven't figured that out.

Emma puts on a false bravado. Neverland supposedly stripped that all away. The point of the scene wasn't to reveal Emma's feelings, it was to reveal Neverland/Pan's power. People focus on Emma in that episode but Rumple had the exact same scene as Emma, where he was forced by Pan in the form of fake Belle, to admit that he was a coward and like his dad. He too also puts on a false bravado. It was to emphasize the effect Neverland had on Rumple and Emma. Which is why it's such a shame that they separated the 2 when they were essentially going on the same journey. It would've been way more interesting to force them together and have them either go crazy over it together and/or come out of it stronger.

That's back pedaling or an outright lie. He said there was a scene of Emma confronting Woegina in the S1 finale but it was cut. Which is the lie? Clearly they aren't going to ever address it lest it taints Woegina's halo. They should just leave Graham alone. Stop answering questions about him. It just makes them look bad. First the idiotic back pedaling over his rape and now this.

Well for Woegina to have any self-awareness, the writers would need to be self-aware of what they wrote and put onscreen and clearly they don't. They legitimately see Woegina as the biggest victim ever. I don't think they threw that claim out that as a joke or meaningless sound bite. They sincerely believe that. It's not like that line is a made up hyperbole from Woegina haters. That is word for word what A&E said. They don't even qualify it. Any scenario of so and so vs. Woegina, it's always Woegina is the wronged party to them. They believe the towns folk wronged Woegina by shunning her lasagna. Point blank said that. Did they ever bring up the fact that hey maybe the townsfolk have a good reason for not trusting her? No. It's Woegina changed and these people wronged her by not being able to see that. They are incapable of seeing any side but Woegina's. Snow is wrong. Emma is wrong. Rumple is wrong. Hook is wrong. Grumpy is wrong. Marian is wrong. Baby Owen was wrong. It's not like they're incapable of writing self-aware characters in general either. Emma has admitted she's wrong a million times and knows exactly what her problem is. So has Hook. Snow is walking doormat and someone should put her out of her misery. Even Maleficent was self-aware about what she did to Aurora's mom and where the curse was going. Rumple is another character that keeps backsliding. But he's clearly capable of admitting that he's wrong. He just can't and won't change. That's different and way more palatable than what they do with Woegina, because they don't see her as being wrong. It's not that they refuse. It's that they don't see her as a villain. They believe she's a victim. They also 100% believe she's been redeemed, since like S2. Any "oopsie" that goes on is blamed on someone else. It's not her fault and therefore she doesn't need redeeming. The person who wronged her is the one that needs to prostrate themselves at her feet. Or die. Any good deed she does is therefore a heroic act, a saintly act. The good deeds don't go towards her redemption, because she doesn't need it. It goes towards buffing her shiny halo and wings. Just take the Marian story. They presented 1 viewpoint and guess whose it is. Emma effed up Woegina's precious life just like Momma Snow did. Is anyone ever going to bring up the fact that without Emma messing up history, Woegina killed her lover's wife? No. The only thing that will get said over and over is Woegina's a victim of Emma's carelessness. And when Woegina stops short of killing Emma, it'll be presented that it's because she has such a good heart and a generous spirit.

Actually isn't it the opposite, that Woegina plots are always simple. Someone victimizes Woegina. She cries and whines and kills people. She's then hailed as the biggest victim ever and a saint. She cries and whines some more. Seriously that's all her stories in a nutshell. The fact that we're sitting here all in complete agreement that there's only 2 posible outcomes to the Marian story says it all. Marian dies while hailing Woegina is Robin's trueest wuv and a saint. Or Marain is killed cause she's an evil bitch and Woegina cries and gets worshipped as the hero.

Exactly FabulousTater, it'd be complete insanity to expect that all of sudden they'll remove their collective heads out of Woegina's ass and write a damn show and not the Woegina fanfiction they've been peddling the past 2 seasons. I don't consider AJ's Maleficent weak. A victim yes? But they redeemed her in a way A&E never did with their characters. Also they don't have the benefit of AJ playing whomever and a film vs episodic storytelling. I mean a 10 minute crying jag out of 2 hours is a whole lot less tedious and annoying than sitting through 50 episodes of constant whining and tears. Ok but that was an animated film done in the 1960s? That's a pretty low standard. Besides A&E are the ones tooting their own horns about how they were reimagining all these characters to be that much more complex and 3 dimensional. Yeah no. Since they can't deliver the goods on the writing side, it's up to the actors and I don't find the ones who play Philip/Aurora to have any screen presence. I'm not expecting Carlyle level of good. But someone of Josh Dallas' caliber. He gets nothing too but he's better than the other 2. Even Ariel made a much greater impression when she had a tenth of the screentime Aurora got.

I think the problem is we look at characters from the present as the starting point of storytelling. A&E seems to view the present as the end point for the characters and the real story they want to tell is the "prequel." That's why they spend 1000% more time and effort on the fairybacks than the present. They just love telling a story backwards. They can't do forward. Now I would say part of that is because they love the fairy tale world more than the present modern one and I do think it's part of that but they did nothing with the Missing Year. Because it's technically part of the present era? S1's finale was probably the end point/end game for them and that's why they're now struggling so bad. Compare Rumpel/Bae vs Gold/Neal. It's such a stark difference in the care given to each. It's probably also why Emma suffers the most of the characters. She's the sole character whose story is only told in the present and needs to be told in the present. Because her past isn't fairy tale based they're aren't going to touch it. It's pretty telling that the best episodes for her came in at the 3rd season where surprise, surprise, she's in the past and fairy tale world. The only exception I see to this is the Hook and Emma relationship. There's only a one way road there and that's forward. Even the Woegina and Hood relationship they have to force a past story to be able to do anything with them ala Marian. They can't even see a story there with a present conflict. They have to reach back into the past. It's kind of bizarre to me. Then again these are the writers that think Woegina is some combination of saint and biggest victim and Snow is evil. I don't want to understand what goes on in their heads.

I think people are too stuck on the soul mates vs. true love thing. I'm pretty sure A&E sees them as the same thing. Certainly Lana seems to think so. She called them both true loves and soul mates. And I don't think she would claim that publicly if A&E hadn't given her a heads up. I mean they told her at the beginning of S3 that Woegina was the one that killed Marian so I don't think they're holding back info from her.

Same Stealinghome. I love KBvS and she's awesome so I don't want her stuck playing some crappy ass character and writing which 100% guarantee it will be. If they make her a weak victim I will freak. But her and Robert together should be epic to watch. I'm also not a big fan of the Philip and Aurora we have, too bland. Maybe they should cast Aurora's mom, the OG Aurora, and let her play the big role opposite Maleficent instead. ETA: If Maleficent is the Black Fairy then I think I know how they'll explain her resurrection and re-introduction. Emma used her wand to open the portal in 3x22 and that probably triggered it. Remember how they said they shot an alternate scene? That was probably it until they got Frozen. Did they ever explain what the Black Wand does? It seems like it returns stuff back to the original or undo whatever happened? Rumple used it to switch back Pan and Henry and to get the curse back. Emma used it to reopen the portal and maybe that also undid her burning by Hook.

No there was nothing about working or doing magic in the question or answer. They didn't say belief is required for it to work, belief is required for her to see it as magic. The question was, is she going to "stumble" upon magic. That's something passive not active. To which A&E reply no you would have to believe in magic to "see" it. If she does do something magical she obviously isn't going to see it or know it as magic would she? Everything we've been told and seen onscreen says she can do magic outside Storybrook onscreen. They directly said the lights were her magic. This particular question doesn't directly address it like it has been in the past or the Henry birth one. But agree to disagree and move on.

Well if they're literally doing the Frozen heart stuff from the movie then I'm putting money on it being Anna/Elsa in reverse where Elsa saves Anna this time around. It looks like we have a ton of story to get through but A&E can zip through a lot in a short period of time. (They can also get nothing done in a long period of time). How? By devoting 10 seconds to each so-called story besides the main one. All these "stories" we're speculating on aren't going to be 11 episodes long arc. Most are probably a one episode or 2 episodes at the most as we saw with Emma's home stuff.

I feel like if A&E had said that it would've created some chatter or minor uproar since it directly contradicts what they said and put onscreen before. I honestly don't remember that or any talk of Emma's magic in the NYC era. Everyone was too obsessed with the dumb love triangle. Wasn't it pretty much accepted canon that Emma can do magic in land of no magic since Henry's birth? At least on TWOP it was. Was there a discussion on this and the interview at TWOP? The dragon thing is from the Jolly Roger. Instead of recreating the bridge, the original had her creating a dragon to rescue herself on. Note I did not and will not buy Woegina fanfiction DVDs so I did not hear this for myself. It was posted online. ETA: ok here we go was this it? Yeah I don't think they are claiming Emma has no magic in land of no magic. They qualify it with belief. http://www.tvguide.com/news/once-upon-time-emma-regina-love-new-villain-1076362.aspx