Jean

It bugs me that they placed Arendelle in the same realm as the Enchanted Forest/Fairytale land, separated only by a short ship's journey. They can't have Elsa knowing about magic elsewhere because that undermines the whole Disney movie. But because Anna has to go there by a magic-less way it has to be close. It's just hard to believe Arendelle is totally ignorant of all the magic shenanigans going on there. The King and Queen don't keep up with what their neighbors are up to? Even Whale knew of Rumple-Dark One and he was in a whole new realm. And Rumple didn't get word of Elsa the magical being when she threw her icy fit? Rumple was so worried about Bae in the Ogre wars, why didn't he just get on a ship and go to Arendelle where that's not a problem. Stealing money for passage is probably easier than stealing the Dark One's dagger. Ahh it bugs. But the point is they're always in a situation. They're never going to have an "appropriate" time for anything ever because a crisis is always going on. It's like last season when Charming and Emma were building a crib with Wicked looming over them. I suspect this is A&E's compromise of crisis and normal stuff.

Yeah A&E said Elsa/Anna aren't related to any of the Once folks, probably cause Disney wouldn't let them. But that the Snow Queen would have a Frozen and a Once connection. The Snow Queen/Once connection can't be blood relations cause that would crossover into the Frozen side. Foster mom is probably the closest they could get away with. As for the 3 Arendelle sisters it's probably to give the Snow Queen a sob story. They can't do too much with Elsa's mom with Disney keeping them in check but this other sister is a nobody

Those are S1 numbers so I wonder how many are brand new, "never seen a single episode just tuning in for Frozen" vs. casual viewer of S1, left during craptastic S2, but tuning in for Frozen people? If it's the latter I don't see those types hanging around because the show is pretty much still stuck on S2 characters wise. If it's more Frozen newbies, you'd have to wonder why they never checked it out in the first place and what will keep them after. It'll probably be easier to go after the new viewers than the lapsed ones.

I didn't like the whole Milah aspect because it's the one time it came off like the writers were going for "poor victim Rumple" even though he killed her and I hate that crap. They went out of their way to make Milah unlikeable while we have crippled Rumple hunching in the background and then that stupid twit Belle going around telling anyone who will listen that Rumple has a good heart. You think if someone cuts her tongue out she'd be more tolerable? The father thing seems strange because the writers changed it in between S2 and S3 for Pan. I think it was in the podcast they used to do that they filmed a scene in Manhattan of kid Rumple witnessing his father get killed. He was supposedly a coward because he stole money and was going to run away and abandon his family but the guys he stole from caught up with him and killed him. Their definition of coward was abandoning family and responsibility which still held true for Pan.

I think they meant "present day" for the characters (and the newbie watchers), not for us in real time. They already said that the show is before the Frozen movie was released, code for we are full of BS and don't want to deal with stuff like that. I'm guessing it was Hans and/or Snow Queen that urned Elsa and they traded her away with Rumple in return for something. I really like EM so I'm hoping they give her something more nuanced and complicated to do with Emma than just "I'm a villain and was your victim" but that's like wishing for the moon right? I wonder how much input did Disney have with her character, since they are making her Anna and Elsa's aunt and presumably will impact them. Going from the episode titles I'm guessing that teen Emma broke the Snow Queen's mirror and maybe trapped her here in our world? Or breaking her mirror hurt her or someone she loved and voila we get the usual Once story.

Maybe the snowflake necklace is what allows the realm jumping in a loophole kind of way? As in it'll take you where you want or to who you want? Wasn't there a filming report that Anna was filming in front of a green screen portal in the woods or something?

I don't think they've thought about their curse/transport rules, just like they don't think about a lot of things on this show. It's make it up as you go along. And since the Snow Queen got here on her own, independent of the curse then I'm going to say she can travel between realms using that Arendelle looking doorway and is unaffected by any curse.

A hot mess? So Charming is the one that has the full Arendelle knowledge. Hans or Snow Queen? I'm glad he gets something to do finally.

But that was just a trumped up title Rumple gave Emma for his curse. He didn't even know she had magic. My guess is she needs Elsa and Emma's magic for something. Since they already broke the resurrecting the dead and time travel rule, then it's make someone fall in love (with her). That someone is probably hot sugar daddy Rumple. I also don't think she's been hiding out in Storybrooke all during the curse because Emma and co. are already investigating the ice cream shop in Ep. 3. Something's got to tip them off and we all know it's not brain power. She meets the Snow Queen in all her glory in Ep. 4. If they knew each other in the past Emma probably forgot or repressed it or it was erased. They have to wrap up the Frozen arc by 4x09 and the last 2 set up 4B? Georgina is only set for 9 episodes and she's been in every single one so far.

I called it, foster mom. Although I probably shouldn't be patting myself on the back for thinking like A&E. Somebody take away my drugs! Or she was looking for another person with magic? I'm just surprised the episode isn't called Cleveland. Hey now, we don't know that she's bad. Maybe baby Emma was like Damien. She's the one from Eva's bloodline. Also, they're really determined to make Rumple a stupid bastard aren't they? And maybe Charming should've looked up his bestie who saved him from rocker hair and warlord Bo Peep before ripping out his heart.

I'm going to laugh if that's a portal from Arendelle to land with no magic. Poor Rumple. I'm guessing either Snow Queen in a flashback or Anna making her way to Storybrooke in the present.

I don't want more Granny on the show itself just because they'll ruin her too but they should do a weekly Granny monologue like those occasional Storybrooke news clips they do. Just attach it to the end of the episodes while the credits are rolling. Some shows do that with bloopers or a silly clip. That was my assumption. I think Elsa's parents were going to see her when they died. And I still think she's tied to Emma's past. Maybe she's the "someone" Emma's magic hurt because I don't see A&E doing "Emma randomly hurts Joe Blow just to showcase Emma's past" story. It has to be connected to something else. Maybe the Snow Queen is also the Kai and Emma breaking the mirror cursed her/caused her to be evil.

I don't blame her. Who would want to talk to the nutjobs and nutjobs enablers in that town, except for Granny. I wonder if this is because Disney wanted "Elsa in real world" as a hook. I hope they expand beyond Storybrooke. It'd be interesting to see Elsa, Emma and the Snow Queen beyond that boundary as they'll be the only people that will still be able to do magic.

Yes but was the type of flack, "Someone needs to alert the authorities, haven't seen Robert's wife in awhile. He probably killed her. Has anyone checked Adam's house? He probably let Robert bury her body there." Or was it more along the lines of yo A&E, "Rumple is a rat bastard that killed his wife and Rumbelle sucks like a damn hoover and your writing does too." And your point about Rumbelle is my entire point, that this is all about shipping wars, not any genuine concern for social issues. That's acting ability. That has nothing to do with what Belle is being attributed to EdR. Come on you see the difference. Ok, then has anyone accused EdR of writing love letters to Ted Bundy and that she thinks Hitler has a good heart?

There's a difference between A&E are crappy writers and portray characters horribly vs you're homophobic or support rape culture. The latter is an ad hominem fallacy. We discuss characters on this forum when it comes to morality or personal values. The discussion over the fight taking place is discussing actors, real life people! I've yet to see anyone on this forum accuse A&E of being supporters of genocide and secretly fund terrorists and actually sound like they truly believe it. That's the difference. There's been some negative things said about Rumple but that is never attributed to Robert Carlyle here. Belle is a stupid twit but is that said about EdR? But what do I know. Maybe there were some people that tweeted at Robert going "Hey Robert, you douchebag, I bet you lied to your wife when you proposed to her too. Where are your kids? Did you abandon them in a dumpster?" Because that is what is going on with JMo and YNB and whomever that gets caught up.

They're doing a side Broadway show no? I guess it would depend on how much they want to saturate the market. Oversaturation could be a worry for them in which case yeah no spinoff. But I don't know, the 2 actresses are really perfect as Elsa/Anna that I would be tempted. They don't have to bill it as a spin off and just hand off the characters to someone they choose as show runners. Did anyone catch the credits? I didn't and will not watch the entire episode but was there any new names that might suggest that they're giving some kind of credit to a company guy? I know the WGA rules are complicated so I don't know if just consulting or overseeing things will garner a credit but just out of curiousity.

I think the reveal is to the audience, not the characters. They filmed that kiss 4x03 in front of a green screen right? I kind of remember something like that. And now that we know her kiddie magic hurt someone ala Elsa then it's a pretty good bet the green screen is to CGI some freaky magic in there. Or we'll see a conversation with her and Elsa since they're bonding by then. I think A&E said the hat mystery is wrapped up in the 11 episode arc for Rumple so it probably ties into Frozen somehow. Maybe the Snow Queen or Hans.

Sure. A&E clearly don't know their demos even if they write at that level. Some head honcho should get on their butts. Once just never seemed like a teen soap from the CW show to me even if it was based on Disney princesses and whatnot. Clearly I was wrong. At least for S1, post S1 I can see it descending to Vampire Diaries level, with less hotter people. With those numbers and if Frozen keeps it up, I'm going to be fervently chanting for a Frozen/Charmings/Emma/Rumple spinoff. Make it happen Frozen fans!

I think that's silly because some of those loudest rabid people waving the social issues flag of righteousness will defend a mass murderer, child abuser and RAPIST to death. How can anyone take their fake ass outrage seriously at that? And no it's not assumptions because the ones attacking YNB and Jmo and the writers are 99% Woegina stans. You just have to look at their twitter names or icons to glean that. Can anyone find a tweet that calmly states their worries about Once on JMo's twitter, or YNB's twitter or A&E's twitter that isn't from a Woegina fan or Rumple, or Belle, or Peter Pan etc. It's doubly silly to make so much of this silly show when A&E and the show defines good and evil like this. Woegina: kill entire villages? sent plenty of children to death? abused her own kid? oh she's pure hearted heroine and the biggest victim of all Snow: 12 year old kid who got tricked? LIFE RUINER, EVIL If anyone thought to take this show seriously well then we better watch out for the huge generation of Ted Bundys soon to be walking around then. Lock your doors people! Oh and build a Noah's Ark to protect yourself too! Boy, Home Depot is about to hit the jackpot.

Robert puts a heavy dose of self-loathing into Gold/Rumple. But it's nuanced and subtle. If he were constantly scene chewing it'd get tiresome but he's talented enough not to default to over the top in your face emoting. He lets you "digest" his character rather than shoving it down your throat. One of my favorite scenes in the horrific S2 was his conversation with Snow when she asked him how he lived with himself. I think that pretty much sums him up. I have no idea why they stopped writing for Rumple and his relationships with Snow, Charming and Emma. They were all different but interesting and complicated. Now all he gets to do is moon over Belle, which I guess is still the lesser of evils.

I had no idea the show skewed that young with the 12-17 demos. Or is this purely due to Frozen? They usually don't break down the demos unless there's a bragging point to be made. This might explain the Twilight level of writing and stories. It would probably work even better if they focused on Charming and Hook 30 minutes an episode and have them walk around shirtless.

Yeah I liked last season's finale dress better but it was clearly a reimagining of it vs exact replica. I can only guess that Disney didn't even want them to touch the costumes. I'm convinced someone in the wardrobe dept. was traumatized by Beauty and the Beast, and possibly Snow White too.

Yeah when did Anna learn how to swordfight anyway? Oh well I'm willing to overlook plot points like that for the pure hilarity that's going to ensue with Bo Peep, shy hippie David and hopped up on speed Anna. I can't tell if Anna's really hyperactive or if it's just because I'm used to all the low energy, dour, desperate for zoloft characters walking around this humorless show, with the exception of Imp Rumple. I wanted Will to be his buddy but I'm guessing what they're doing is letting Anna have the past storylines by going on a tour of all the Once characters and Elsa is getting the present with the Storybrooke version. I'm surprised because I thought it was going to be mainly Elsa on the show but it looks evenly split so far.

Oh man between gangster Bo Peep and that wig, this might be the best episode ever. This has got to be their idea of light and humor right? I guess Disney isn't footing the bill for wigs.

I can't wait for the Elsa/Emma scenes and the hat mystery. How do they go from freezing in a cave to friends? I just youtubed the Frozen and Rumple scenes and man all 3 Frozen people were on point, although Anna can take it down a notch. It'll be interesting to see her with Charming. I'm not sure if Charming can come off as young as Anna or if he's even meant to. See A&E, good guys can have personalities and all they had to do was follow the cartoon down to the letter. How sad is that? I'm totally convinced some Frozen guy is sitting at the head of the table pouring over everything Elsa/Anna related. I wonder if the hat is related to the writer mystery? The owner of the hat is also the writer maybe?