AncientNewbie

The only speculation I have left is, if it is the F4 fire between Sarah and Tony, whether she helps him light his fire or just takes a nap until he wins it. I’ve never seen someone so disinclined to try to win a season.

I’m actually not going to complain too much this week. None of them rose too much in my estimation but at least production added some slight tension about who was going to the edge each hour instead of just Tony hijinks. Okay, correction—Michele really got good coverage this week. It was good to see her game.

Is Wendell wearing Dani’s sparkly shirt?

Any time the plan comes together by 8:10 I’m suspicious of what will happen.

I think this whole discussion hits on the weirdness of this season. They don't have their usual dumb mactors and bombastic clowns and the fodder that fills episodes. In order to not look like there's an error in their game, they have to present these people in a largely positive light because they either need them to come back or need them to keep promoting the product. These are also the people who don't apologize like Dan F. or talk to chickens like Shambo or provide intense campfire conflict like Fairplay, so even if there wasn't a bias in the edit, there's not the content to even edit. Which is why I'm going to keep complaining about the Tony show. He deserves attention and he seems to be playing well, but he's the one that fits their model of "good tv" so we get a lot of him and a superedit where he's shown as the only one even in the game. In reality I'm sure every one of them is playing a game and we're not getting any insight into what it is--even if it's "tell me on the way to tribal" there's a why to that which isn't being explored. Arguably, it's an active choice not to explore it, because (as was said wisely above) production wants a steady stream of Coach and NaOnka where a Kim or Denise is more likely to win an average season, but quietly and steadfastly without drama. Or rather, as a tldr to this whole thing, without the sort of drama the show loves to see.

I get it, but...I'd just be a lot more riveted by Kim and Denise planning something than Tony climbing a tree and Sarah talking to a tree.

I get it, I just wished they focused some on the unsuccessful moves and sometimes sent us to tribal not knowing Tony will escaped unscathed yet again.

We finished s7 on our rewatch last night. @SVNBob, you did some great coverage above that highlighted some points I was thinking about too (and some I missed.) This was a weird one for me at the original airing. Survivor had been cut out of the schedule due to a grad school class, so I had limited knowledge of Romber together and only knew them from s2 and s4 of Survivor. I did not care for them at the time, but I also didn't like the other teams that were obsessed with them. I just wanted my TAR and this wasn't it. I get why CBS was cashing in on their new reality stars, but they were just too big of stars at that time to be on a "regular people" season. I don't doubt Rob would have dragooned Ferns to help them, because that's how he operates and people just get sucked into his wake, but the people jumping to spend full days helping them seemed awkward. I thought his Meatblock plan was brilliant and that went a long way to win me over. I do agree with many that they should have stopped at the wreck, but I also think expecting normal human interaction from Rob Mariano during a televised contest can be difficult. Looking at it 15 years later, after learning what production on Survivor looks like, I can believe that he saw enough people around to handle it and didn't see any need to join the camera, sound, producer and contestant crowd. Lynn and Alex seemed kind with each other and competent racers, but they wouldn't let Rob and Amber out of their heads. The Compton comment was a big mark against them in my book, and before that I was pondering how they might have been on another season. Sort of the same with Patrick, who I had to remind myself wasn't 15 during filming, but he seemed a lot less into than his mother and I don't know if being on another season would have helped him. I wish Ryan and Chuck had been around longer. I really thought they had potential to be an interesting team. Overall, I liked the season despite some casting and gameplay issues. It reminded me of why I liked old TAR, where the eye candy might be gone in three eps and then we'd have Mom and Dad racing the world, saying real-life (ie, stupid) things that the Survivor editors would never allow to air.

That's one thing that drives me nuts with the casual fans at work...they really buy the edit that Tony is the only one out there trying to play the game and the rest of them aren't scheming and plotting just as much, if perhaps not as successfully over the past 6ish days of tv time. Brainstormy daydreaming, but I wonder how much time and effort would go into CBS revisiting older seasons (or even this one) for a Director's Cut long form version...like you see Samoa with Dave Ball and Brett having an alliance and how it sputters, or you get Michelle and whoever having a genuine chat in the shelter, and all the stuff that goes into the game but isn't relevant enough to the final tribal to get into the show. I'd probably even pay a premium on my CBS subscription for it, if if was done in a more documentary fashion and not just Rob/Coach/Hantz confessionals. To bring it back to the present, I think something like that would go to Denise/Jeremy and the Snap Heard Around the Tribal. What's their relationship? I have no idea. So many people are quick to assume the worst about people, but I'm just left wondering about any context for that moment.

Skupin was the beta test for Andrew Savage and it would likely have gone the same way as Savage's two seasons but for the fire. He's too overt and aggressive in imposing his plans on his alliance and then he's gone as soon as he's expendable. I'm frankly surprised he lasted so long in his second season, but I think Denise et al had his number. And I'm even more surprised he spent so little time in prison.

Not to veer off topic, but watched some of s7 with Osten this weekend and, 15 years later with my busted knees and various nerve damaged extremities without even being on the show...I get it. Probst always goes overboard about it, and of course they had Savage ready to moralize about the Moral Failures of Today's Youth, but this kid was looking at an unpleasant experience with potentially serious consequences in order to realistically make mid five figures. So I'm okay with anyone on the Edge going if they want, because it really does seem a miserable thing with limited opportunity to advance unless you're in great shape and insanely competitive. And if they want to stay, for whatever reason, good enough. I like the idea of the coconut challenge this time, but after a while it's just not as interesting to watch people struggle for inexplicable tokens.

Redneck James is one of my favorites. More competent than he seemed with a completely unreliable read on the game, but at least he was trying and funny about it. I wish he'd been back, but no one from this era is probably willing to go through the prep to get fit and ready, much less play again. (Well, Stephenie, because she can afford the time/energy to get competitive again, I guess, but I don't know that Survivor wants her back.) This is just one of those seasons where casting didn't work out. A lot of interesting people that got eaten by a terrible tribe and dominant duo that went largely untouched throughout the whole game. Ah, but Stephenie trying to out swim that boat in ep1...quality. (Compare to the start of Cambodia, where 30something Wigglesworth outdistances a raft almost an entire course. Different types of boats, but a really unfortunate comparison for Our Hero Steph.)

I just finished my (re?)watch (that part of my life is a little foggy) and I have to say, I probably liked it a lot more knowing the events than if I'd been doing it real time. I really liked the Outcast surprise, though. I'm not an EoE fan, but the fact it was a complete surprise and short term made an interesting twist. I was curious about the "if Lill took Jon" question and, even though Probst asked it at the reunion, I still don't know. The reunion special straw poll has the bias of everyone having seen the season and time elapsing to process the events, so even if people are legitimately trying to state how they'd have acted, it's never going to be certain. Add in that Jon didn't get jury questions or to make a statement...he's clearly a better speaker than Lill and was at least playing his version of the game. Add in the post-show interview where it's indicated the Outcasts voted Lill in just to get rid of her and the fact that Sandra won in a walk because the jury didn't buy Lill's story...I don't know. Of course, then we end up in this alternate universe where a lot of Rupert's bad moments are aired and Sandra is just a catty mean girl and Evil Mortician Darrah is barely stopped from unseating Our Hero... Last thought is I'm so glad Andrew Savage lost. It seems every few years we get an Fit Older Wealthy Guy who is just sure that he's innately superior to everyone else and then he disproves it by blowing up his own game being smug and condescending. I work with a lot of those guys IRL so I derive special enjoyment when they collapse.

I'd agree it's a no on Ben. Maybe I've read too much 115 over this isolation, but I've started paying attention a lot more to little things seeking editor/production commentary. His "million doesn't last" seems the sort of (probably true and innocuous among the cohort) comment that a winner wouldn't be seen saying given the marketing of the show. Nick...he's a different animal. His storyline was never troubled macho gamer. He's a social guy and a ruminator, so he could be salvaged with a quick turn to "I've been looking lost, but I know everything that goes on here." I'm still sort of hoping for CGI Brett, the true winner of Samoa, to pull this off.

I did just finish s8 last night, which was a weird jump to finish that at 7:59 and switch 16 years into the future with some of the same people a moment later... I can see why some people don't like that season. The cast of "star" alumni was relatively small and close at that point and it must have been a big honor to be asked to play again--just look at the packed crowd at MSG to watch the final votes read to get a reminder of how much of a pop culture phenomenon this used to be. But that meant they knew each other and had some personal bonds while this was all still new enough that there was no roadmap on how to return. You can see it in the way they sat each other down and explained votes, leading to Lex's famously hurt feelings. It was treated more like a game between gentleman, where you and your alliance succeeded with an immunity win and there was little in the way of scheming and shifting that we see today. My UO for that season is that Amber might not be a Top 10 winner, but she deserved it. She formed an alliance and rode it to the end, being more likable than the guy sitting next to her. She wasn't dynamic, but she didn't have to be--the alliance that everyone else should have done something about let her have not only an immunity shield, but it earned her more votes every time he irritated someone. By the way people talk about her (and my faulty memory) I expected the Sandra Bench the whole season for her, but she was at least mediocre in most challenges. Near the end game she was holding her own against Jenna and Rupert--not exactly challenge beasts, admittedly, but the narrative on this season has become that Amber was as much a spectator as the audience at home, probably because of Rob love and hate.

This was another of those episodes where I'm reminded I'm not CBS's core demographic and seeing the alpha male cop dominate a bunch of dingbats isn't really entertaining for me. The "battle of the best" doesn't really fly when most of them get a few seconds and their only commentary is Tony-related.

I feel the same as I did after last week...I find Tony very interesting, but I'm not into the edit of "Tony is the only one playing and everyone else is an incompetent loser." His rumoured win would mean a lot more if he wasn't depicted as playing Redemption Island 2.0.

Like I said somewhere above, we just rewatched s16 and I'd forgotten how impressive Amanda was (or maybe I missed it the first time.) For some reason I remembered her more for losing than for being a strong competitor the whole game. But I do agree about her Final Tribal performance. I think if she'd owned her game in either season she could have won. But she never wanted to admit to the strategy and she got steamrolled by charismatic people who gave frank answers.

I'm holding out this faint speculation that this season will be edited like a Leverage episode and on the walk to Final Tribal we'll get a supercut of one of the UTR finalists being involved in everything to date that wasn't revealed to the audience (as Probst certainly dislikes his meal ticket enough to screw with speculating fans.) That said, Probst et al would really love nothing other than a muscled aggressive man running rampant for three or four final eps so this is probably what they intend with no nuance.

That's my concern. I enjoy Manic Tony Does Well bits, but a final few eps of Tony running circles around the dingbats would get old awfully fast.

Oddly enough, we're watching All Stars currently and saw this stuff last night. I didn't watch with my spouse until s16 so we're catching up. Everything between 5 and 14 is very fuzzy for me, like maybe I watched or didn't. Getting old is great, kids. I'm using both Hulu and CBS All Access to watch, because I prefer Hulu but flip to CBS at times for the missing eps. I really do not like awkward tv (or life), so Sue's very emotional outburst was hard to watch. What was even harder though was that Alicia was the only one that got an edit that would hold up today as so many others, especially the ones presented as nice guys and heroes and Kathy, were vocal about "is it just gameplay or she's just trying to sue him" sort of stuff. Which isn't to say one way or the other what happened or how anyone really felt...it just sounds very callous (esp following S39.) I was also surprised how many times they had Lex sitting down with his allies and telling them it was their turn, but he took it so poorly when Rob did it to him. Admittedly he put a lot more weight on his deal with Rob than he did with Ethan and Jerri, but it was presented a lot more similar than his anger indicates. And FYI, because my spouse asked, I googled it last night and per Lex, they are civil but not really friends. ETA: IMHO, they don't have to have "good" prizes when they are recruiting people that want to be on TV and not people that want to come win the challenges/money/game. And probably production doesn't want us to see them offering hamburger when they used to be given steak just so brands could be associated with them. But I do think some investment in the product could really help their brand, because $50,000 for a pickup or a basic luxury sedan is a blip for production and makes a big splash in the press for the show if promoted well. ETA II: Electric Bugaloo: Obviously CBS did a full court press on Rob and Amber during/after this season, and he's played about 42 times since this (or so it feels) but I feel like I can appreciate him here a little more than when it was new. He was the Mean Girl confessional before it became the staple of the show who openly tells the home audience, with a smile, how he will lie, cheat and steal to win in the game and how the game isn't life. I can get why people don't like him, but I really prefer a gamer to someone that plays a White Knight game and feels entitled to win because they weren't playing the same game as 15-19 other people.

I always find this somewhat ironic because production has created a game where skilled, flashy and likable are, without massive luck, a death sentence in this game, and then oftentimes the winners that are left have to be spun into being more compelling. Production doesn't help by having an archetype they want to feature all season, which fits into those "rarely going to win" categories. Watching some of S1 recently, Hatch (at least the tv version) has always been a smarmy SOB and I think she show benefited from the more realistic depiction. We didn't get a flag waving and an eagle screaming every time he came on screen (cough Westman cough Ben cough) and (albeit already being cynical and old when s1 was on with the accompanying tastes) I liked that love/hate dynamic. So, yeah, s40 doesn't have a lot to work with that production would usually like to work with--hence 18 Tony talking heads last week and the implication that the rest as just hanging out with a fashion show instead of playing Real Survivor. It's a weird season because they aren't working with their usual casting preferences and can't edit together the usual formula. So, long way of saying I mostly agree, but I hold production more responsible than the castaways. They are all playing to win but without a Colby/Lex/Cesternino/Rupert/Fairplay who is not going to win, but provides content or a foil.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=10778224 An oldie, but one of my favorite Sophie stories....

I didn't see what went down and I'm sort of surprised to read of it. For whatever happens IRL, Nick on social media is usually very plugged in to the Survivor community and engages often with other players in a supportive way. If I had to speculate, and this is approximately 1000% projection from my own life, if I were a "holler to a collar" lawyer and season winner being called out by a beauty school dropout and her mom as impliedly an inferior player on the official CBS account, I can't say that I'd react well. Not as publicly or profanely, but as a poor kid who grew up to be a still poor but educated adult, the opinions of the know-nothings back home about my life always set me off.

I still don't get why Rupert and the shoes wasn't prohibited as messing with the personal property of other players, but whatever happened with it, it was really entertaining. I had almost forgotten that until my own recent rewatch of that ep given production's years of homage to St. Rupert of the Beard.