Sunshine

with Samantha as the girlfriend?

I agree he doesn't appear to want to Oliver dead just ruined through torture, chaos, etc. For Oliver to win and come out on top does that mean he kills him, captures him and he stands trial, or captures and sends to Lian Yu prison? I don't care about Snoozan at all but I am curious about the upcoming "battle" between Oliver and Chase, especially if Chase remains the DA.

What does defeat of Prometheus look like? Death would almost be like a win I think. I would think Chase has prior experience with Helix. He seems to be a very well informed man. He would be doing more than just physically training for the past 4 years, especially since torture seems to be the goal. Helix has all sorts of information. Once Evelyn gave him the names of GA's team he probably paid for information on them. Since the broken engagement, Felicity might not have been on his radar. Evelyn put her there. The only pictures on his board originally were Lance, Diggle & Thea. Evelyn provided the rest. When killing Billy didn't make her leave, he tried something else. If Helix is anything like the organization in the 2.5 comics then besides being an information broker they also broker hits, etc. An anonymous individual hired Felicity to kill Green Arrow. That was a line she was unwilling to cross so she went to him instead and told him what was going on.

Ha! I think your first point is a given. Oliver did try to get Thea to fix it. She wouldn't so he asked the person who had the technological expertise to help. Asking Curtis would have required an additional explanation. I don't know if Felicity removed the info from her laptop or if she simply sent an anonymous message to Susan's boss. For proof she probably had to at least reference the files planted. Not only why is Felicity upset or uncomfortable but look, inspite of this, Felicity was still supportive of Oliver and he was very receptive to it. (I am agreeing with you if it's not obvious.)

No way of knowing for sure. I think the adult convo is happening. Felicity joins Helix from the promo stills. Who knows if it amounts to anything screen time wise. Snoozan's kidnapping will be at least a plot point but she might actually have little screen time.

I think the writers forget. IIRC, that was about the same time she gives the great "green-lit" speech to Oliver about choosing to stand by him. So it came off more as a one way street. She continues to be there for him but she won't open up to him. Trust issues. She's not allowing herself to be vulnerable. She's still giving pep talks even after he made her uncomfortable while the girlfriend is telling him how he deserves everything happening to him in the latest episode.

I hate Oliver's thank-you for saving my life speech to the team. He sounded like a boss talking to his employees. It came off as grateful but I'm surprised you could do it. Diggle and Felicity have always had his back. Curtis helped at the end of S4. Dinah just did her job as a police officer. Rene should really have been the only wild card.

According to MG it's supposed to happen but I haven't seen either of them mention it yet.

I just re-watched 5.15. For anyone trying to figure out who Vigilante is, Pike was not at the press conference when Vigilante was going to take him out. I read somewhere that he was which ruled him out so I looked closely. I wonder if the adult conversation between Oliver & Felicity will be one side (Oliver POV) and commercial/next scene. The Thea/Oliver scene regarding Susan in 5.14 was really Oliver talking/lecturing and then sitting down like a convo was going to take place. Thea got a POV to say why she was leaving in 5.15. Oliver (SA's expression) looked like he failed his sister. How dark is the arc going to be when she's joining them basically to help people, especially when the team saving Oliver from Vigilante is what appears to have made up her mind?

Reaching maybe in hindsight, but here goes. Chase said he's 10 steps ahead. This is psychological warfare. The end game seems to be torturing Oliver, not killing. Those associated are only pawns and/or collateral damage. With human pawns you can usually predict how they will react based on prior behavior but never with 100% accuracy. Not sure why Lance is set up. It actually resulted in a good result for Lance. I guess it could have gone the other way. Thea doesn't appear to have been used by Chase. 5.06 called out Oliver as a serial killer. Let the game begin. It resulted in a newbie defecting and betraying the team eventually. Providing Chase with information he didn't know previously. Curtis was targeted just to provide info to Oliver so he could join in on the game. If Rory or Rene had been there they would have been the target. Was Christopher Chance/Human Target a pawn or cohort of Prometheus? Was Susan a Prometheus pawn from the very beginning? She's a reporter looking for a big story on Oliver Queen. She is aware of the existence of Christopher Chance/Human Target. Chance charms Susan Williams as Oliver Queen. Chance gives Oliver her number and tells him Felicity has moved on. Could be the move of a buddy. Could be more. Susan pursues Oliver. He finally accepts. Susan continues to investigate. Susan doesn't out Oliver which was probably the idea. It doesn't work so Chase manipulates Oliver into throwing Green Arrow under the bus. Green Arrow has been discredited. Now to use Susan to torture Oliver. Prometheus sets up Green Arrow to kill Detective Billy Malone by encouraging a shoot-to-kill order for Prometheus. Billy was dead anyway when he got too close but maybe the idea is to drive Felicity away. It didn't work. Next up Black Siren. Then Prometheus or Felicity? Oliver chooses Felicity, even at the expense of the LL doppleganger. Diggle is setup to be apprehended. Chase agrees to defend and drops info about how the the NSA has info on Gen Walker. Felicity Smoak hacks the NSA. The info she needs has already been removed from the server. Fangirl Kojo makes contact immediately. Coincidence or another chess move? Kojo appeals to Felicity's ego. She makes her feel appreciated. She gives her access to Pandora. Felicity is now getting into bed with Helix for what she considers the greater good. Based on that :45 second scene she's going into it a little idealistically. Assuming this is another Prometheus move, if Felicity loses her humanity while Oliver is busy saving Susan, it's another life ruined due to association with Oliver. WM did say Felicity would have a profound understanding of Oliver. I'd like to believe Helix is just a coincidence, a way for Felicity to be able to go after Prometheus in her own way, but it looks to me like it's just payoff for another of Chase's chess moves. Doesn't mean it won't give Felicity some development. If the speculation about Samantha being the girl that went home with Oliver instead of Chase 12 years ago turns out to be true (and Chase really cared about her) the idea of keeping Oliver and Felicity apart might have added appeal to Chase. IIRC, Felicity is going to discover she had a hand in the origin of Helix. Not sure if that was from 5.12 scene with Kojo or something else because I thought WM's interview came out after that. I think if Felicity discovered that she would definitely want to change their methods once Prometheus is dealt with. His next target is probably Dinah, since he just discovered her connection in 5.15. Evelyn is probably the manipulator or pawn in 5.18.

I am guessing it's a go then. Someone asked about a good sandwich he has eaten. He said something about he will have one March 10 (Friday). Until then not so much. His diet has been lean protein and veggies with limited carbs in the evening. His wife also hates wheat.

I assume that's where Evelyn/Artemis comes into play in 5.18? Madison was raving about JH on twitter so they might have been shooting together.

Not if they choose not to make it about that. I just wondered if we would actually see Felicity mourning as in talking about it. If so, who would that be ? Kojo? Or does she just hold a picture and look sad? I always took mourning Billy as a metaphor for something else (Helix) but now I'm curious if it was an just an excuse or something more. I'm good at 1+1 = 11. Both

I don't think Dinah & Ollie are going to become romantic. I do think they are going to have them connect on an emotional level. If you remove Diggle & Felicity from the equation, even for an episode or two, Oliver is going to need someone to interact with about his struggles. Dinah is the character most likely to relate since Sara is on LOT. Snoozan can't relate. If Dinah struggles Oliver will be there for her. Anyone know what Charlotte Ross is up to these days? SA said they had a deep bench this year and he just got some good news. Would they bring her back for Felicity in 5.20 to assist in mourning Billy? Maybe not but I'm wondering how that is going to play out. It's possible we see nothing and just WM's way of saying Olicity isn't together yet.

Unpopular Opinion: Sorry for putting this out there and I would love to be wrong. Luckily I am 99.95% of the time. I think Felicity's "dark arc" is going to play out like Diggle's in 5.01-5.04 in that she is going to get a couple of minutes of screen time an episode with random characters, Kojo being one of them. She will still have scenes with the others because Diggle, Curtis, and Oliver are all going to try to get through to her. Diggle was removed from the story so there was a narrative reason for a new team. Felicity told Kojo at the end of 5.15 she was ready to go full throttle with Helix. Felicity and Oliver have an "adult conversation" coming up soon. There is a mention of William in 5.16. SA said at some point end of S4 to how they got to where they were S5 working together is addressed. I think it's all happening in 5.16 I think Felicity is leaving the team (she might help out part-time) so it's sort of a not leaving on bad terms but I need a change conversation. Mending fences as SA said. * In 5.17-5.18 SA implied in his FB Q&A that Oliver has a breakdown. He probably is due one and in an earlier post I said it should and he should become stronger on his own. I think he will get emotional support though - from Dinah. IMO, it would be almost impossible for this to happen if Felicity were present because the expectation would be that she would be there for him. She has been even when they weren't romantically linked. I think this is going to be the emotional connection WM keeps talking about. JH talked about being closest to Oliver and having a soft spot for Curtis. Someone on this board made a Dinah/Curtis comparison to S1 Oliver/Felicity. Susan Williams may still be around simply as a pawn for Prometheus. She may remain the love interest in order to not give the impression that Ollie & Dinah is happening. Or she may just be a reporter gathering information for a story. IDK. I wonder if Lyla will be around for more than just 5.19. Hmm. More reason to rely on Dinah if Diggle's with Argus. Dinah and Rene have been set up to be able to interact with Oliver post 5.18 Disbanded. I think for Dinah and Oliver to really bond as partners you have to remove Felicity and Diggle from the equation. I think we are seeing a pivot to either a comic characters centered team in S6 - Green Arrow, Black Canary, Wild Dog & Curtis - or a move to an ensemble show like LOT. If the former, I think Diggle & Felicity will still be around but with their importance to Green Arrow reduced. Diggle will always be Oliver's brother. Felicity might be the love interest and establish Smoak Technologies which would assist the team. I do think we're seeing all the pieces put in place more subtly than we did in S3. AK said before S3 started it was transitioning to an ensemble. It never happened successfully. I guess the question could be how many more heroes does Arrow have to introduce going forward? MG told JBA that they were rebuilding Olicity. I haven't really seen it. I have seen signs that could be classified as hang in there, we're going to get back to it eventually. He also said it would be a slow process. WM said she didn't know if it would happen this season which was later changed to right away. JBA assumed it would happen this year. I think the plan was probably to end on a note that it's headed that way so those fans come back but the rebuild would be in S6 when they are both emotionally healthier. Both have been through a lot of trauma*. The plan might have changed. I guess we'll see. * I do think if the adult conversation is about mending fences that could be a sign of a rebuild starting. *Felicity will probably have to work through her trauma on her own. Oliver will have Dinah and perhaps others.

I am thinking maybe 5.20 when she's still mourning Billy <eyeroll> per WM. EBR said something at SDCC about growing apart before they could grow together. WM did say something early in the season along the line of they were going to have to figure out what their relationship means to them. How hard are they willing to fight for it. Felicity appears to have started dating Billy as a distraction as much as anything else. She can't even say it's real. Did she have faith in him? She wanted to protect a police detective from Prometheus. Oliver attempted a relationship with Snoozan because she pursued him. It was easy on his part. She's now ready to resume the relationship because she has her job back. She didn't believe him when he denied having anything to do with it and was pretty nasty to him right before his impeachment hearing. Felicity, on the other hand, expressed her belief in Oliver Queen as a hero for the city as mayor.

How is Oliver going to expose Chase as Prometheus without exposing himself as the Green Arrow? What better way to torment someone than to see them everyday and they always have to be on guard against you. In my area the DA is elected. Mayor has no power over his office. I wonder if Oliver has an emotional breakdown in 5.17-5.18? Prometheus got inside his head. Sometimes you have to shatter before you can pick up the pieces and emerge stronger. Originally he was all about the mask. This year he's been more about the man. I guess it's time to quit trying to lead separate lives and merge the personas into one man. Oliver needs to do this by himself, for himself. (I really, really hope Snoozan is no longer a love interest at this point.)

I did. I wondered if it was Rene or Dinah or both becoming regulars. My guess is if that happens we might hear at Paley Fest.

I wish I could get a peak at the script for 5.23. LOL! Before the season started they were talking about the reporter representing the city and how the city was Oliver's great love. What's happening now would make more sense (to me) if she hadn't become a love interest. If she had simply been a reporter who was a thorn in his side that he was trying to treat fairly and now save because she was targeted because of her profession, the reporter as city metaphor works. Opposing Thea's methods would come off more like fair play. Asking Felicity to help also looks more like the right thing to do. Since they made her the love interest though it comes off more as my girlfriend is more important than my long established relationships. Oliver threw Green Arrow under the bus in 5.15. Her reporting could lead to a story restoring Green Arrow to hero status within the city. Oliver & Green Arrow could both be seen as heroes. I'm not saying this is what is happening in 5.23. It's a possibility that has been tainted to me. It would play better if there was no real personal involvement. It would also allow Oliver to fully embrace both the man and the mask.

I don't know. Ollie tortured by Snoozan's kid napping while her actual scenes are with Chase works better for me than watching the two of them play kissy face.

If that's the case, the good news is she doesn't appear to be in 5.17 but you never know.

Maybe Ollie & Friends don't find Snoozan for a couple of episodes. According to the IGN post episode interview we are going to get more of Chase's backstory. Maybe that is the "exclusive" reporter is getting, willing or unwillingly. Meanwhile Ollie is desperately looking for her. I thought maybe Artemis was getting a redemption story but after David's remarks about maybe Dinah being the most susceptible to betrayal because she's the newest member I wonder if poor orphan girl is being sent to lure her away from the team. Not going to be successful I know but since she revealed her cry I think an attempt may be made.

I really want to know what Doris Chase thinks of all this (but not really). According to IMDB she's in 5.16. Will Oliver use her as a pawn?

I don't know if I saw the whole facebook live because I watched a :41 clip someone tweeted. Anyway, there's nothing to worry about. They have a plan. You'd know that if you watched the prior seasons. The idea that you should sit through 23 episodes of tv and at the end of the season go "Oh! That makes perfect sense now!" cracks me up. Not really.

I know sweeps is all about the romance :-) Hook up, Break Up, Reconciliation, Kidnapping all in 4 episodes. Too bad no one seems to care.