KingOfHearts

Underwhelming season finale... Pros: * Flashbacks with Hook/Bae. * Lacey has left the building. * The character moments at the failsafe climax in the mine. * 2B is over. Cons: * Greg and Tamara didn't die. * Neal "died" and got resurrected the same episode. * All the puff about the failsafe and moving back to EF went nowhere and abruptly ended. * The Neverland "twist" wasn't nearly as intriguing as the S1 finale's ending twist. * Did I mention Greg and Tamara didn't die?

I zoomed in to the synopsis and read it. Here's what it reads: So many spoilers... why would you even watch the Neverland eps... or the season for that matter, when you can just read the synopsis on the back? The second curse is more sinister than the first? Really? It was cast by Snow White for Pete's sake.

Regina has the best costumes on the show, yet all they show is her face and (ladies, help me out here) whatever that is on her forehead. They should have done something like that cover photo of Regina/Zelena with the tornado. I read the synopsis on the back... It really didn't make much sense at all for new watchers. There's only like 2 sentences for Neverland, then the rest is about 3B. It was just weird.

One major improvement that the show hasn't touched on is that Regina is finally sharing Henry and accepting there are other people in his life. She's not out to be the sole authority on him like she used to be, but rather she's finally collaborating with the Charmings on him. It's a stark difference from her wanting to kill them all to be Henry's only guardian in S1/S2. That's one thing S3 did right in Regina's redemption - she's willing to work with the Charmings now.

OQ and Marian appears to be more of a storytelling issue than Regina herself to me. If Regina's redemption track in 3B was legitimate, I'd predict Marian wouldn't be that big of an issue. But I'm convinced the writers wrote that knee jerk reaction from her for the controversy and drama factor to finish the season off with. They twisted her character to keep what she'll do next ambiguous. If we were going by normal character logic, Robin would choose Marian and Regina would be over it in two episodes. Nothing about this Marian twist is going to be that natural though, because we have A&E at the helm. Nothing about Outlaw Queen is natural! Regina really should be busy mending her relationships with Henry and Snow instead of blasting people over her boyfriend problems.

Regina has done selfless things before, don't get me wrong. She protected Snow from her mother's ghost, for one. I didn't see any evidence particularly in Kansas that said she was there to save the baby. We did, however, see how alarmed she was in Bleeding Through when she found out Zelena was going to erase her from history. Like Mari said, she's grown considerably from the way she used to be. Underneath the drama, I see changes in her overall character, it's just subtle at times. I just tend to appreciate sincere words and gestures more than hero deeds. I'm one of Regina's fans, by the way! :)

I'm sorry I didn't write the sentence after that very well. That particular act wasn't self-serving. But it didn't cost her anything, either. I don't think she was there to save the baby, necessarily. She was there to stop Zelena from erasing her from history, plus keep her newly-found "hero" image intact. I don't know if I really consider that a "good deed". If anything, her hesitation because it would endanger Snow and her baby was the right part. You don't even need the curse for Rumple to have to do that. He caused problems with most of the citizens himself before the curse was even cast.

It does apply, but it doesn't touch on her core issues. It's not what really digs deep into her character. The acts that are meaningful are the ones that spark a change of heart. They are turn-around points that counteract the current route she's taken. Apologizing to Henry was a major step for her, but all that was reversed in 2B when Cora came to town and Regina tried to kill the whole town with a failsafe. That brought us back to square one. 3A got her back on track with her helping the Charmings rescue Henry, however, most of her good deeds in S3 were self-serving in some way. The one act that stands out is in Going Home, but she immediately reverted to victimization in Witch Hunt when she tried to sleeping-curse herself. So yes she does good acts, but they don't resonate, and their effects disappear just episodes later. What she needs to work on is her relationship with Snow first, then apologize to every single citizen of Storybrooke. She needs to realize she was wrong in order to move forward. Until I see that, her good deeds are fluff. It's what's in the heart that matters.

I should have been more clear when I said taking responsibility, but what I meant is she hasn't taken responsibility for her own actions. She hasn't admitted in the clear that what she did in her past was wrong. I haven't seen her not blame others for the things she herself had done yet. If I see her do something meaningful like apologize to Snow, then I would see that as a big leap in the right direction. (Note to everyone: I'm still spinning my wheels on what Regina might do in S4. Right now I think which way she'll choose is debatable. Please bear with me and my over-analyzing.)

In Regina's case, she lives in extreme denial. She knows deep down she's not the victim, and that's why she plays her victimization to the balcony. It's a case of "the lady doth protest too much". It's a lie to defend herself from her own conscience, and really to stop herself from breaking down under all the guilt a normal person would feel from doing such horrendous acts for so many years. She accepted her role as a villain at the end of The Evil Queen. Earlier in the episode she said Snow was evil and she was the good person, but at the end she said, "The queen is dead, long live the Evil Queen". She's called herself a villain on more than one occasion, with Going Home being one example. She chooses to be evil, not because she wants a happy ending, but because she's insecure. She can get everything she wants, and yet still be unhappy and do bad things. Even if she had Henry with all the Charmings gone, Robin all hers and everyone under her feet, she still wouldn't change. Regina knows better because she has been exposed to the light many, many times - mostly by the people she persecutes. (*cough* Snow *cough*) She was a good person once, too. She is constantly around kind people who would save her life in a heartbeat, so she really has no excuse. It's not like evil is all she knows. If the writers didn't go out of their way to drag her back down over and over again, she'd probably be redeemed at this point. I agree with your entire post, @Jean. S1 Regina/Rumple were great because they had clear goals, and they planned them out meticulously. Cora was a mastermind who knew exactly how to get what she wanted, and she didn't let anyone get in her way, which is why she's my favorite villain on the show. Pan had the makings of a powerful one, as you said, but it didn't go as far as it should have. Zelena had so much potential that I could go over in deep detail (I have in some posts in the past), but she was only there for the marketing, so they kept her two-dimensional and killed her.

He might have to do with Robin Hood. King Richard left the kingdom for the Crusades, so the Holy Grail wouldn't be too far off. If it's the White Knight, he could possibly working under Will and Ana in their kingdom since they're the White King and Queen, respectively. In the books, the white knight is an old knight on a horse who's a bit quirky and uncoordinated. Maybe when it gets closer to time it'll be as obvious as Elizabeth Mitchell.

I disagree that villains feel justified, or don't think of themselves as villains, especially the ones on Once. They enjoy their villainy very sadistically, and they revel in it. They're fully aware they're in the wrong, but they choose to keep doing the wrong things because of their insecurities they don't want to let go of. Their sob stories really don't stir me at all, plus they're not even convincing enough to warrant how evil they are.

Sorry, I misread your post! Morgana would be great for the Dark Fairy. I still have no clue about the unflappable knight spoiler. The White Knight, perhaps?

Once has never done legendary/fairy tale characters that weren't super iconic in Western culture, though. It's a question of what's most marketable in the context of the Disney universe. Oz, Wonderland, and Neverland are all pretty well-known, but the Knights of the Round-Table aren't usually recognizable to audiences of all ages, unless you're talking about Lancelot.

Since they're bringing in the Knave, 4B could be Aladdin with the return of Jafar. Unless of course Disney releases another animated blockbuster this year...

She could go either way, really. Her character is messed up for all eternity as it is. Her redemption arc itself is a major coherency problem, since she's claimed to be redeemed in the show yet she still does things to prove she's not. I would hate to have a mild flipflop backslide like in 2B, but to S1 Regina would fit her original character. I just want her to choose a side and stick with it. If she goes complete hero, then the show has too many heroes. If she goes evil, then many viewers will be cheated. She's the Catch 22 of the show. The writers can't win with her, no matter what they do. I personally prefer Evil Regina because Lana does better acting as the villain, and Regina is far less annoying when she actually owns her darkness instead of denying it with tears. After seeing her TLK and use light magic... I'm pretty burnt out on her "redemption". Where else does it have to go, really? The obvious thing would be her recognizing other peoples' feelings and taking responsibility, but we all know that's taboo in the writer's room.

If the Knave was swept in with Curse 2.0, which pretty much has to happen to avoid a plot hole, you'd think Ana would have the White Rabbit go look for him there. I'd say he was definitely cherry-picked, but I don't know if it was by Maleficent. She was very adamant about never using the Curse and making sure no one else ever did. I'd say only the caster could make the Guest List of Evil, but the Curse rules are so vague and breakable that I have no real leg to stand on with that one.

Ditto. This may be giving A&E too much credit, and possibly too optimistic, but my theory is Regina's redemption in 3B was a misdirect. Her TLK and light magic were only temporary bursts of love, and they were not legitimate signs of a changed heart. The fact she did it without a heart has been criticized fervently, but it may actually be telling that her acts weren't true. She was only able to do them because she didn't have her heart - because her darkness wasn't inside her. Now that she has her heart back, we welcome you to 4x01's real title, The Return of Mayor Mills. (I actually want Mayor Mills again. She's far more entertaining than St. Regina.)

ITA, RadioGirl27. I feel like all these "character storylines" are going to be short Plot B's or C's to accommodate the Frozen Plot A. The spoiler hints have been really random. The most aggravating part is that all the plots will probably conclude themselves by the end of the half season, with little to no long term effects or pay-off. I don't give a crap about storylines like Frozen that are there just for show and not really relevant to the main plot. With this pattern, the writers can just keep dragging skeletons out of Rumple and Regina's closets when they need new Big Bads.

W is for Wizard of Oz, who peddles magical items!

It's not necessarily how Belle feels, but how Gaston feels. He may have truly loved Belle, but it wasn't reciprocated. Maybe he didn't realize she was unhappy with him. He would probably be disgusted to find out she married the guy who turned him into a rose, as Marian is with Robin. (The "You monster!" stuff.) I totally agree. But when it comes to Adam and Eddie, it would probably end up being that Belle is Elsa and Anna's long lost sister if not the bland gilded cage stuff.

Belle finally gets something outside of being a love interest, huzzah! My only worries is on what the present day events will be about in that episode. If it's another Rumpbelle fight, I pass. If Gaston comes back to life, he and Marian can start a club. Throw Milah and Daniel in there too somehow. It would be a dead lovers intervention!

Rewatched An Apple Red as Blood. It's one of my favorite episodes. This episode is awesome because of the curse-breaking suspense running through it. You have Regina seeing the signs, Rumple planning his trip, the fallout predictions, and it's all topped off with the epic apple turnover twist at the end. At that point, you know something is about to go down. It's one of my most treasured twists in the history of the show. I really enjoyed the Regina nightmare sequence at the beginning. It pits you right inside how Regina thinks - that everyone is out to get her and she "never wins". I personally found it hilarious when Emma squeezes the apple and says "Yep. Rotten to the core.", with Regina gasping. Another scene that really took me was the scene where Mary Margaret reprimands Emma for leaving town. It makes me really miss S1 Snow, who wasn't afraid to tell it like it is. I wish she and Emma had the relationship that they did then. The fairybacks were fairly cinematic, which I miss. They had a couple of great lines such as, "Red, you have someone on your chin" and "I miss Stealthy". The quality of the storytelling was excellent - it was more like a real independent story than just a supplement to the present day events. Coincidentally, the official OUAT twitter posted a picture from the episode for throwback Thursday!

At first I thought maybe he would only appear in flashbacks, but if he has "regular" status, then that's unlikely. If there's some scrutiny on the validity of Marian's story, could the cast call on the Knave to set the record straight? He was in the Merry Men, so could he be a witness? I also wonder if he has a connection with Regina, since he was cursed to Storybrooke. The writers have a lot to play with since he's connected to several characters. Time will tell if they actually utilize that, though.

Snow and Leopold - there is a difference between kindness and being naive. So glad Emma didn't inherit that. Leopold was ignorant just for trying to marry Cora, imo. It doesn't seem like they were even together that long. He was probably looking for a quick escape route from his arranged marriage, but he didn't do much of a background check. (I just realized Leopold is Emma's grandfather. Obvious I know, but I hadn't thought about it before.)