Season 10 Spoilers, Speculation, and Stabs in the Dark!

[normasm]

This happened today

 

The fact that MGG isn't there is disturbing. I'm beginning to see some writing on the wall.

 

EDIT: Someone on another site actually tracked down a tiny fleeting shot of someone who's probably MGG, at the table. I won't use her screen caps, she can if she deems it appropriate.

 

But as I said over there, it may be even worse that he was there, and they didn't even give him one identifying closeup. That's almost a worse diss.

Edited October 6, 2014 by normasm

[Wilowy]

Well, we know he's in the episode, we've seen the pics. I'm not bugged that he isn't there, except that I would've liked to have seen him in that environment. Kirsten's dress/brooch was really pretty. 

I think Matthew's in NYC right now, isn't he? Didn't fan photos place him there a day or so ago? 

[Droogie]

Hmmm... What writing on the wall?? I'm hopelessly obtuse. Reid is a fan favorite -- why would they diss him?

[normasm]

I didn't mean the table read happened to day, it happened back in July or August, whenever they did the read for 1000 suns. 

 

Droogie, they showed closeups - sometimes multiple closeups - of all the cast, even if they weren't speaking dialogue or giving interview insights into the table read process. But no MGG. They could have at least showed one closeup of him sitting there reading along, but all we got was a tiny longshot that someone had to scour with her sharp eyes to even know he was there.

 

I will say KV is incredibly cute.

Edited October 6, 2014 by normasm

[Wilowy]

Yup, Harry says he was there. Makes me wonder something else too... what happens to all the footage they don't use with something like this. Is there a longer version somewhere? Because I want that. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Hmmm... What writing on the wall?? I'm hopelessly obtuse. Reid is a fan favorite -- why would they diss him?

 

Droogie, there has been speculation in Reid's character thread that MGG is pulling away from the role, as if in preparation for the end of Reid or for the end of the show. There is further speculation that both JJ's prominence over the last couple of seasons and now JLH's arrival on the show bodes ill for him due to Erica Messer being an incompetent who should step down as showrunner.

 

Also, I looked really closely, and unless he was under the table or in the bathroom, MGG was not at that table read. How annoying.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Cobalt Stargazer

[Droogie]

Well, I'll try to stop obsessing over Reid on here but I will be so disappointed if the show ends or Reid's character leaves without throwing him some sort of bone. I've spent 10 years loving CM, and that character, and to let it end without him having something good in his life is just gonna piss me off. It made sense when the show first started but I don't see the wisdom in not letting Reid blossom... Do the writers listen to the fans at all?

That's how I stumbled onto this forum. I was googling season 10 in hopes I'd find something good coming up for Dr. Reid. All I found is how they're going to explore Morgan's relationship -- and I keep thinking, who cares? That man already has a gazillion notches in his bedpost (implied, anyway). But Reid gets bupkis.

[Wilowy]

CoStar, Harry JUST said he was there.

 

[normasm]

No, he was there Costar, just in incredibly long shot. Hell, we saw Virgil, who was sitting right next to MGG, several times, they couldn't just pan over to the left a little?

[Danielg342]

Kind of doubt they'd get rid of Reid. Considering that they're making Callahan somewhat geeky and that Jennifer Love Hewitt seems to more naturally fit in with Garcia and her ilk, it should stand to reason that the equally adorkable Reid would fit in too.

As I've said all along, Callahan was brought in with the future in mind, one that won't have Rossi and Hotch in it, since both (especially Rossi) are getting long in the tooth. Reid, on the other hand is still pretty young by Hollywood standards so I can bet CM would want to hang on to him more.

[normasm]

Sounds like seconds and scraps to me, Daniel. TPTB have said that TG and JM are the stars, and there would not be a show without them. If they are now going to revamp the show to feature Kate n- the Kids, thanks, I'll pass. I hope MGG will, too, if that's the plan. It'd be a perfect time to go do his films, while he is still young. Besides, without TG, JM, and SM, it would be JLH, AJC, KV and presumably MGG. I'm laughing just trying to envision that!

Edited October 6, 2014 by normasm

[Wilowy]

I do know if Matthew wants to leave, they will not just 'get rid of' Reid. There will be a respectful, heartfelt, and hopefully tender goodbye. I wouldn't be surprised if they took two (or more) episodes to give him a proper sendoff. Reid isn't just central and necessary to CM, he's one of the most unique characters on the entire television landscape. Those who work closely with him are well aware of it, even if the clueless suits at CBS are not.

[missmycat]

I do know if Matthew wants to leave, they will not just 'get rid of' Reid. There will be a respectful, heartfelt, and hopefully tender goodbye. I wouldn't be surprised if they took two (or more) episodes to give him a proper sendoff. Reid isn't just central and necessary to CM, he's one of the most unique characters on the entire television landscape. Those who work closely with him are well aware of it, even if the clueless suits at CBS are not.

Unfortunately it wouldn't just be the clueless suits at CBS, because I've seen little to almost no evidence whatsoever that would make me believe that Erica Messer was aware of just how much of a unique character Reid happens to be. 

[Wilowy]

Welp, you and I differ, MMC. Just because she doesn't always utilize him to his fullest potential doesn't mean to me that she's blind to his appeal. Contrary to what some others think, Erica's no idiot.

[ForeverAlone]

Yeah. I haven't gotten a real sense that the producers and writers REALLY value Reid as a character, not since season four. Their one big story idea for him was capped off by watching the love of his life (or she likely would have been if they had a chance to be in a real relationship) get blown away in front of him. They may like Matthew as a person, but I really don't get the sense they appreciate Reid and his potential for the show. Most of them can't even write for Reid in any way that shows that he is an exceptional genius. 

[Wilowy]

Agreed, I think he (Reid, though not necessarily Matthew) intimidates the hell out of them. Breen is the only one who writes him fearlessly, and even he doesn't get the (past) details right. Not since Wilder have they had a writer that does him true justice. 

 

I do however, think they know what they have in him. I think they all feel he is extremely valuable to the team, and I think they do try to write him well... I just don't think they have the skill to, consistently. 

[Danielg342]

Sounds like seconds and scraps to me, Daniel. TPTB have said that TG and JM are the stars, and there would not be a show without them. If they are now going to revamp the show to feature Kate n- the Kids, thanks, I'll pass. I hope MGG will, too, if that's the plan. It'd be a perfect time to go do his films, while he is still young. Besides, without TG, JM, and SM, it would be JLH, AJC, KV and presumably MGG. I'm laughing just trying to envision that!

Maybe I'm alone in this but I've always thought Reid could carry a show all by himself. He's just that unique. Perhaps S11 or even S12 is too soon to contemplate that, but I think eventually the show will need to look into the future. I just can't picture Hotch and Rossi- especially Rossi- around once you get to S13-S15. Granted, who knows if the show will get that far, but I don't believe CBS would bring in Kate Callahan if it thought the show would have one or two seasons left.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

No, he was there Costar, just in incredibly long shot. Hell, we saw Virgil, who was sitting right next to MGG, several times, they couldn't just pan over to the left a little?

 

Thanks, normasm, that sorta makes me feel better. It's kind of aggravating that they couldn't actually show him being there, but maybe I need a telescopic lens to see him for myself.

 

As I've said all along, Callahan was brought in with the future in mind, one that won't have Rossi and Hotch in it, since both (especially Rossi) are getting long in the tooth. Reid, on the other hand is still pretty young by Hollywood standards so I can bet CM would want to hang on to him more.

 

Danielg342, I looked it up, and Matthew is 34, Thomas is 52, and Joe is 66. I do think Rossi should be moved to a different job if he's going to remain with the Bureau, but Hotch is probably still young enough to stay in the field. I just think that Messer doesn't have much interest in Reid as a character.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Cobalt Stargazer

[JMO]

Just saw the video.  It was interesting to hear part of the process of bringing the show to life.  But I was only patient enough to listen to it because I'd already seen all of your comments on here, and already knew MGG was nowhere to be found.  Otherwise, I'd have spent the entire length of the video looking for him.  That he was the only regular cast member MIA (while guest stars were featured, to boot), is emblematic of a real tone deafness on someone's part.  I don't know who makes those kinds of decisions, but somebody doesn't get it.

 

One observation:  In all of the prior photos I've seen of table reads, MGG was seated between AJ and Thomas.  This particular table read took place in what looked like a courtroom set, and I don't think the table space was configured the same way.  So, maybe somebody had to be displaced.  But did it have to be one of the stars of the show?  And could the camera operator not have been instructed as to where he was sitting?  Sheesh!

Edited October 7, 2014 by JustMyOpinion

[ForeverAlone]

Considering how little Matthew is used to promote the show in all capacity, I have to think it's because either the show/network doesn't value what Matthew can bring to the team, or Matthew just doesn't want to play. Matthew is so rarely sent out to promote the show in America. He's not the social media face of the show, or even contributes that much to the social media promotion of the show, even though he is among the top three for a social media following. He's not tapped for public events like Shemar is. And it's not like Matthew is taking it upon himself to tout the show. I mean, he barely mentions the show anymore on his social media, except for his directorial efforts. I don't know if the producers and network just kind of have him play with a ball of yarn in the corner, and that's why he doesn't promote the show like he used to. Or I wonder if he is over the show himself, but appreciates the fact that he has a steady, high paying job on a hit network show so he will stick with it as long as he can.

[JMO]

 

Considering how little Matthew is used to promote the show in all capacity, I have to think it's because either the show/network doesn't value what Matthew can bring to the team, or Matthew just doesn't want to play.

 

I don't know that MGG cares about being any kind of spokesperson for the show, FA.  He seems to take much pleasure and pride in describing himself as 'weird', and then doing his best to live up to it.  His social media postings are consistent with that.  It's pretty much a niche---a cross between hipster and millenial-----which is a very specific taste.  While some may be drawn to it, I doubt that would be true of the network executives.  They'll stick with the more 'mainstream' personalities, more trusting that they'll get what they expect. 

 

[normasm]

And it's not like Matthew is taking it upon himself to tout the show. I mean, he barely mentions the show anymore on his social media, except for his directorial efforts. I don't know if the producers and network just kind of have him play with a ball of yarn in the corner, and that's why he doesn't promote the show like he used to. Or I wonder if he is over the show himself, but appreciates the fact that he has a steady, high paying job on a hit network show so he will stick with it as long as he can.

The latter is my take, FA.

[Wilowy]

I don't know that MGG cares about being any kind of spokesperson for the show, FA.  He seems to take much pleasure and pride in describing himself as 'weird', and then doing his best to live up to it.  His social media postings are consistent with that.  It's pretty much a niche---a cross between hipster and millenial-----which is a very specific taste.  While some may be drawn to it, I doubt that would be true of the network executives.  They'll stick with the more 'mainstream' personalities, more trusting that they'll get what they expect. 

 

 

I agree with you JMO, Matthew will talk about Reid and the show if there is a specific event that they go to for that purpose. Even then, he'll start jump roping or break dancing rather than get too deep. He's our happy little flake and that's fine. Shemar and Kirsten can be the CM cheerleaders, just as long as he shows up for Spencer in the show. And he does. 

[zannej]

I wonder why Matthew wasn't seated next to any of  the other cast members. It seemed like ALL of the rest of the cast were seated in groups with other cast members. I did like how JLH tapped Shemar on the arm and laughed really hard. She seems to be getting along with him. I just wonder why Matthew was off to the side. Did he request to not be filmed at a table read? Was it just that his character didn't have many lines? WTF?

 

But the fact that he was excluded from most of the shots suggests to me that whoever produced this did not consider it important enough to bother showing him. Which is one of my major gripes and one of the things that bugged me about one of the season finales-- JJ's wedding where Reid wasn't even visible during the actual ceremony part, but some of the minor characters were front and center.

 

I'm really wondering that if it weren't for the obligation and the pay if Matthew actually wants to be on the show anymore. He's not someone who can really be replaced, but they don't seem to utilize him much at all.

 

Another interesting thing from the table read was that they go over the episode as if its a play and do it in order that way. I think that helps them to make sense of the story and see it as a whole instead of pieces. 

[Wilowy]

 

Happy CM day, all! 

[ForeverAlone]

Hmmm...this could be interesting. Or it could be cheesy depending on how the writing is done.

 

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Mega-Buzz-Castle-Hawaii-Five0-OITNB-1088705.aspx

[zannej]

Ugh... I hope it isn't cheesy.

[ForeverAlone]

Hmmm...interesting spoiler.

 

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Criminal-Minds-Exclusive-Ben-Savage-Young-Gideon-1088990.aspx

[missmycat]

Hmmm...interesting spoiler.

 

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Criminal-Minds-Exclusive-Ben-Savage-Young-Gideon-1088990.aspx

I thought so too. Although, I am more than a bit leery over

Kirsten having co wrote it.

It also appears that I was wrong about the JJ PTSD episode being the one EM referred to as a "love letter to the fans".

Of course now giving the way EM feels about JJ it was easy for just about anyone to make such an assumption. 

[alexvillage]

I agree missmycat

KV co-writing will probably end up in a lot of "baby girl - my king" or whatever she calls Morgan these days, a lot of "my awesomeness found out…"
And EM sending love letters will probably be "see how wonderful I am as a show runner?" and it is going to be an all cheesy ending

[normasm]

I don't think we have to spoiler hide these comments, this is the spoiler thread. That said, I can't imagine how EM writing with KV is going to turn out. It's an interesting premise, but...

[Old Dog]

Erica Messer was better when she was writing as a pair with Debra Fisher - but with Kirsten Vangsness? I know KV has written for the theatre and for the film she recently produced but after seeing the way she has steered the character of Garcia into the caricature she is today I am a bit scared what they will do.

[Knittzu]

Maybe she will shock us and write Garcia as a mature, professional adult doing her job and providing assistance her technical skills rather magically solving the case with her all-knowing, all-powerful computer?

 

I mean... hahahaha. Of course it's going to be baby girl, my chocolate mountain top of love, and here comes GARCIA THE GENIUS to save the day!

[alexvillage]

I never saw anything KV has done or written. I will say that, just because she has written something does not make her a good writer. Hopefully she is btter as a writer than she is as an actor, which is a very low bar

But my fear is not that it is bad, my fear it that it is bad in a "Garcia" way, the infantilization, the Morgan as a hero, the silly talk. My opinion is based on the only thing I saw about her, I think an interview, and how she spoke about the character.

If I am correct, it will be a fast watch, most on fast forward.

[normasm]

This will have to be a flashback in which only Gideon, Rossi and Max are the BAU, no one else would have to be even there. If it's as far back as I think, Reid would still be playing Little League with Riley Jenkins, or maybe not even born...

[Danielg342]

Read the spoiler. Not sure what to think- on one hand, I like the thought of having Gideon and Rossi in a scene together, and I think it's great that Rossi uses his experience to solve a case for a change (he doesn't do this nearly as often as he should).

However, I have issues with the timeline- Gideon wasn't around at the beginning of the BAU, because in “Unfinished Business”, Max Ryan talks about how he pulled a prank on the then new agent Gideon, and if I'm not mistaken, that put the timeline in the mid-1980s. Ryan, it's been established is an original, just like Rossi, so if we were going to do a 1970s case, it should have Ryan and Rossi together, not Gideon and Rossi.

I also cringe at the thought of Ben Savage being Gideon- he's too closely associated, for me, as the quirky dork from Boy Meets World to be an effective, pensive but neurotic Gideon. I grant that perhaps Gideon's emotional issues could have happened after the Adrian Bale bombings, but Gideon had a cool, calculated demeanour that goes against the normally jovial Savage. Of course, having said that, I do believe in Savage's acting ability so I have reason to think he'll pull it off, but I have my doubts.

Furthermore- can we trust the writers to adequately write for Gideon? I know Erica Messer was there from the beginning (her first episode, with Debra Fischer, was “The Fox”), but it's not she's been the best as a showrunner keeping up with the character details, and she's already made quite a few flubs just this season. So I cringe here too.

[missmycat]

Well the reason it gave me pause when I saw that KV had co written the episode, was the actress admitted in an interview that she has been allowed to write some of Garcia's lines. And given that Garcia is now a caricature of who she use to be, it doesn't exactly bode well with me that KV has now been allowed to try her hand at co writing an entire episode.

[Knittzu]

I will say that, just because she has written something does not make her a good writer.

 

 

Indeed. See: The current roster of CM writers.

[SSAHotchner]

The idea of the flashback has great potential, but I don't trust the writers to do this well. It would be interesting to see some conflict between Rossi and Gideon because they have very different approaches in dealing with the unsubs. You could sense some disdain from Rossi toward Gideon in some of his comments (and I'm sure the situation with Mandy precipitated this), for instance in Omnivore when Rossi confronts Hotch over his guilt at refusing the Reaper's deal after they find all the people dead on the bus. He says, "if you want to end up like Shaughnessy, like Gideon, blaming yourself for everything, go ahead, but that voice in your head is not your conscience. It's your ego."

 

And for the gazillionth time, I am so tired of the Morgan/Garcia sex banter. LESS IS MORE!

[normasm]

The idea of the flashback has great potential, but I don't trust the writers to do this well. It would be interesting to see some conflict between Rossi and Gideon because they have very different approaches in dealing with the unsubs. You could sense some disdain from Rossi toward Gideon in some of his comments (and I'm sure the situation with Mandy precipitated this), for instance in Omnivore when Rossi confronts Hotch over his guilt at refusing the Reaper's deal after they find all the people dead on the bus. He says, "if you want to end up like Shaughnessy, like Gideon, blaming yourself for everything, go ahead, but that voice in your head is not your conscience. It's your ego."

 

Yes, this is why this might really work as a story (in good hands……………) because it must be told from Rossi's point of view, and he must be talking to any and all of the others who weren't there at the beginning. Who was Gideon's protege? Who practically worshipped him? Reid. I would soooooo wish they would take this opportunity to bring Reid and Rossi together to dissect what made Gideon a good profiler and where he failed. It might also be used to straighten up Ms. Kate from her trash talk. 

 

OK, I know, i'm just dreaming. With EM writing it with help from KV, it probably will just be Young!Gideon calling all females Baby Girl and Young!Rossi schmoozing the female victims. Ewwww

[ForeverAlone]

If I could choose any origin story, it would be Reid's. Granted, that is rather obvious considering my Reid love, but I am very interested to see how exactly he ended up in the FBI. We've had somewhat conflicting ideas about Reid's path, so I would love to have some actual canon. I mean, we have had hints that Reid was subconsciously drawn to the FBI because of the Riley Jenkins murder. But he has also said that he originally wanted to cure schizophrenia. Even if that was just a boyhood dream like many of us have had, Reid actually has the intelligence to make a real contribution to the field of neuroscience. So for me, it takes more than just a murder of boy when he was a young child to divert him off that path, besides the fact that the dream of curing schizophrenia would have come well after the Riley Jenkins murder. 

 

But of course, the choice in doctorates the show gave Reid don't really add up to either path. I mean, if he was always dreaming of being in the BAU, you would think he would have chosen fields like forensic psychology and psycho linguistics. But of course if he really wanted to contribute to neuroscience, he would have chosen different career fields as well. Instead he chose more straightforward science fields that suggest he wanted to be an academic or a scientist. So how he ended up in the BAU is interesting to me.

 

Of course, in my mind, Reid happened upon Gideon first, maybe by watching a college lecture by Gideon just out of curiosity or he read some of Gideon's writings, because Reid likes to expand his knowledge. And I can see Gideon courting Reid once he realized what a find Reid's brain is and how much he could contribute. I mean, it's already been established that Reid never would have been chosen as a FBI agent through the normal process. So to me, that means Gideon had to pull some favors to get him admitted to the FBI and then routed to the BAU. 

 

Unfortunately, the way I see Reid's origin story would involve a ton of Gideon, and that means Mandy Patinkin. And since that will never happen in a million years, I will never get the Reid origin story I want, and somehow I doubt his origin story involves anybody other than Gideon. *sighs* 

 

 

 

On the actual BAU origin story, I just hope Ben Savage can bring the intensity and gravitas that Mandy did to the part of Gideon. Even if he wasn't the narcissistic drama queen he was later, something tells me Gideon was always that intense. That man was the most natural profiler the show has ever depicted, and that is not something that is learned in my opinion. It's just how he was. I wonder how close in age Gideon and Rossi are. I imagine they have to be within five years of each other likely, so they were likely to be peers in the FBI, even if Rossi was in the BAU before Gideon. 

[zannej]

I like Ben Savage and I've seen him in other stuff where he was more serious. I think he could pull it off-- but I think it hinges on the writing.

 

To be perfectly honest, I'm not thrilled about them doing a story about Gideon having other actors play adult versions of the cast (even if they are younger). I admit that I think the thing I'm the most bitter about is that they are doing a story on Gideon, but I'm betting they won't get around to doing one about Reid. At least it will be about Rossi, but I will miss Joe as Rossi. I'm worried it just won't feel right. As to the "love letter to the fans", they've said that before and I absolutely hated what they did. I just want a good story with good writing, good characterization, good profiling.... 

 

This could be interesting or it could be a disaster. I guess I'll just have to wait and see... I wonder if the writers remembered that Gideon was married and had a son named Steven.

 

I have some rough ideas on Reid's path to the BAU, but that is for a different thread.

Edited November 11, 2014 by zannej

[alexvillage]

It is boring. Whole episodes about past lives are boring to me and it is far from anything resembling "love letter". It is more like "I don't care about viewers" letter

[Old Dog]

I agree. A love letter to me as an original fan would be a great current team episode with a great case, great profiling and a lot of suspense at the end.

[spinner33]

I'll be adding anything Kirsten writes to the "skip" column. No thanks. Messer is bad enough. Hate to think what misery the two of them together would create.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I agree. A love letter to me as an original fan would be a great current team episode with a great case, great profiling and a lot of suspense at the end.

 

I can't find the quote, but Whedon also referenced something being a love letter, and what we got out of it was the execrable Lies My Parents Told Me. Granted, Joss' love letter was purportedly to James Marstrers and/or Spike, and I'll leave that one alone since, if anyone here saw the ep, you know how disturbing that idea is.

 

With that said, I haven't seen KV's film and so I don't know if she's any good as a writer. Whatever I think of her abilities as an actress, it isn't her fault that Garcia has been transformed into Betty Boop on acid. Not even Joe can sell the writing all the time, and he's been acting since the mid-seventies. So, who knows, there's at least a ten percent chance this might not utterly suck.

[Knittzu]

Whatever I think of her abilities as an actress, it isn't her fault that Garcia has been transformed into Betty Boop on acid.

 

 

I'm not so sure about that. Granted I am not as fair as CoStar, but I know she "wanted more input" on the character during her most recent contract negotiation, and look where we are with Garcia now. Plus she brags about writing some of her lines and being responsible for those ridiculous clown outfits she decks herself out in.

[zannej]

Betty Boop on acid.. LOL. And now I'm thinking of two songs... One is "Send in the Clowns" and another is "Don't Send In The Clowns" by Zorak from Space Ghost Coast to Coast.

 

I'm just going to refrain from pre-judging Kirsten's writing since I don't know what her style is or if she's any good. 

[normasm]

Oh, God, Zorak!! I'll have to look that up to see it again! ! !!

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Betty Boop on acid.. LOL. And now I'm thinking of two songs... One is "Send in the Clowns" and another is "Don't Send In The Clowns" by Zorak from Space Ghost Coast to Coast.

 

And now thanks to you, I have this hilariously bizarre image of Garcia singing The Trolley Song a la The Sweeney Sisters.

 

And now so do you. :-P