Henry: The Prestige-Drama Useless Little Brother

[sistermagpie]

3 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I think it's a bit more than throwing a "monkey wrench" into his plans.  It's more like lobbing a grenade at him.  He will lose everything, family, future, peace, trust, reputation, possibly his country as well.  Even if, and I doubt it, both parents and sister all get out alive?  He will be devastated.  If you think his only, or even primary devastation will be financial?  Or that I am saying that?  No, not even close, he will lose everything.

I quoted those lines because I thought they summed up the whole scorched earth well. I don't think you or I are saying his primary devastation will be financial--I doubt that would even enter his mind. I was agreeing that pretty much all areas of his life would be destroyed because they're all important to him. 

Regarding money, so far it seems like the only time Henry's specifically shown interest in making money it's been now, as a means to an end of staying in school. He's never, for instance, said anything snobbish about people not having enough or noting anybody's make of clothes or talking about activities that cost a lot of money. I think his expectations have risen to fit the world that he's in now, but a boy who was motivated purely by money would be a different character than Henry, imo. 

1 hour ago, SusanSunflower said:

Annoyed that "Henry's ambitions" are so undefined at this point .... Business School v. Finance and Wall Street, Medical School, Law School or something of more personal interest talent/interest like Communications, International Affairs or Politics -- who knows .... just still unexpectedly brilliant and ambitious Henry to contrast with good-girl good-student similarly aimless (beyond adult approval seeing mini-me) Paige. 

But I think it's normal for him to not have those specific ideas yet. Really, it's a good thing--especially compared to Paige who went all in on spying without understanding it at all and now seems to consider whatever career she has something that would just be handed to her as an afterthought. He's keeping his options open, which ironically is I think what his father wanted him to do. 

Henry seems to be going at things in a much healthier way, imo. He's now focused on the step he's on (high school) and then he'll want to get into whatever college(s) he wants to get into. Once he's there is probably a better time for him to really start thinking about what subjects interest him the most for a career. In high school he's having to take everything and as we've seen, Henry's interests can be very varied. A few seasons ago he was telling Stan his computer teacher didn't seem to know enough about the subject and this year his favorite subject is literature. I don't think that means he no longer cares about computers at all, but he's not single-minded about it. 

[SusanSunflower]

If Henry and his family are separated, by death or other, He will also reel in their selfishness ... all the times they chose that "other" over him and the sense of neglect that bred in him.  It's always good for a teenager to find adult mentors and peer role models, it is different when a teen is seeking what is obviously lacking at home ... although I felt Paige's contentment to spend night after night alone at home studying less "adaptive" .... that and her ghastly unchanged wallpaper inspired at what age by what influence?  Roots? 

Edited May 7, 2018 by SusanSunflower

[sistermagpie]

Just now, SusanSunflower said:

He will also reel in their selfishness ... all the times they chose that "other" over him and the sense of neglect that bred in him.  It's always good for a teenager to find adult mentors and peer role models, it is different when a teen is seeking what is obviously lacking at home ... although I felt Paige's contentment to spend night after night alone at home studying less "adaptive" .... that and her ghastly unchanged wallpaper inspired at what age by what influence?  Roots? 

Stan, the role model Henry sought out, was far a more neglectful parent than the Jenningses, though. And he seemed more attracted to him as a bro than as a father. It seems like the stuff Henry sought outside the home was more exciting rather than more stable. He complained when his parents weren't there to do something he wanted to do, and he seemed to become offended at them seeming to consider Paige the smarter one who got more respect, but he was just as often blowing them off (especially his father) to spend time with more exciting people. His role models honestly seem more aspirational than nurturing even now. 

I think he really is independent and happy with the relationship he seems to have with his dad now while Paige tries to crawl back into Elizabeth's wound so she can occasionally kick at her for the rest of their lives.

[SusanSunflower]

I was surprised at how resentful I was -- after my mother's death at 69 -- by her choice to continue smoking.  I had watched the progression of COPD and the "surprise" diagnosis of lung cancer (despite much medical care and declining mental function function due -- we learned -- from brain mets) when she had a seizure .... to far along for anything but palliative care ...  Having watched numerous humiliating "attempts" to quit (she was fully convinced she could not)  I accepted she would never quit and would likely die of tobacco related illness. 

I was 36, my brother just 30 ... and both of us in serious unrelated disputes with our older brother 45 (who she made executor) ... the family fell apart almost immediately after she died and for the last 20 years has remain completely estranged.  Henry is likely to be orphaned, set for a lifetime of questions without answers or questions never asked because the idea that there would be no one to answer was never considered.  Living life without a family is hard, regardless of the circumstance ... but I think the younger, the harder ...  The legacy (and likely related secrets) of being the child of foreign agents will be a different burden for Henry than for Paige (if she survives, not that her burden will not be considerable). 

Edited May 7, 2018 by SusanSunflower

[sistermagpie]

7 minutes ago, SusanSunflower said:

Henry is likely to be orphaned, set for a lifetime of questions without answers or questions never asked because the idea that there would be no one to answer was never considered.  Living life without a family is hard, regardless of the circumstance ... but I think the younger, the harder ...  The legacy (and likely related secrets) of being the child of foreign agents will be a different burden for Henry than for Paige (if she survives, not that her burden will not be considerable). 

It kind of shows again how the parents would always do better to work together. Because as of now Paige is being raised Elizabeth's way and Henry Philip's way. Paige is like Elizabeth with the demanding mother and Henry has the father with whom he will always remember (I think) sharing affection but who he ultimately didn't know at all. The kids would have each been better with a mix of the two instead of one getting Elizabeth's determination to completely swallow Paige and make her like herself and Philip shield Henry from manipulation so completely that he hid himself and that's going to traumatize him after it's too late to fix it. Especially with Paige knowing Henry's bound to feel like he hasn't been chosen and he's got good reason to feel that way, especially since he's flat-out said he knows his mother chooses not to speak to him. 

Though tbf I think the kids themselves also had a hand in those choices of their parents, even if they didn't realize they were doing it in Henry's case. 

Edited May 7, 2018 by sistermagpie

[Umbelina]

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/will-supreme-court-hear-case-of-sons-of-kgb-spies/

This is a recent update on the two real sons of the husband/wife Soviet team rounded up in Boston by the FBI.  I wonder if the USA has a similar obscure law that would take away Henry's citizenship?  Probably not, from reading that, I don't think even Canada can make that previous tenuous connection stick in court.  I think the boys will get their citizenship back when the court rules again.

Is (at least) the oldest child already recruited into being a spy for Russia?  Maybe, but obviously, not in the "second generation" as envisioned by "Center" on our show, he is blown.  Still, it's showing some of what happened to the real kids of embedded spies here.  Their story is still a happier ending than I think we'll have on this show.  I honestly can't imagine that BOTH, or possibly either Elizabeth and Philip will get out alive, and go on to live a bourgeois life in the the new Russia.

I think Henry just liked Stan.  It began when Henry had to do a paper on someone he knew that he admired, and choosing a parent wasn't allowed.  He picked Stan, and interviewed him.  Stan was pretty open with Henry, and showed his vulnerability, and he was an FBI agent, which is interesting to any kid.  After that, partly because Stan was so disconnected from his own wife and son, and partly because of proximity, and I do think partly because Henry SENSED something was seriously off in his own home?  Henry and Stan just hung out sometimes.  Stan would bring him movies, Stan's son knew more about computers than Henry's teach, Stan obviously didn't cook, and loved to drop in for home cooked meals. 

They just had a connection and that coincided with the entire ridiculous Paige becomes a devout Christian and then a spy attention suck of his parents, who no longer had time for Henry, their hands were full with Paige.  That was understandably not only because Paige could blow their covers at any moment (and did with the Pastor) but also because Elizabeth was so hell-bent on creating a mini-me, which went far beyond Center's orders to groom and recruit her.  That threw tension and distance between Philip and Elizabeth, which made "home" even weirder for Henry, but also coincided with Stan suddenly being all wrapped up in Renee, and no longer had the time or inclination to be Henry's stable touch-stone and friend.

"Where's Henry?"  Half the time his parents didn't even know, or care where he was.  They certainly didn't know he was excelling in math.

Henry met a girl he had a crush on, and that led to the idea of the boarding school, which offered a much better education AND a place to live that wasn't bizarre and uncomfortable.  The tension in that house had raised even if you only look at the dysfunction and obviously unhealthy dynamics between his parents and sister. 

Kids know.  They know so much more than adults think they know.  Does this mean I think Henry knows they are KGB?  Not really, but honestly, it wouldn't surprise me that much.  He knows something is, and has always been deeply OFF at home though, he feels it, he senses it, and almost anyone would, but the show is now going out if it's way to show how very much Henry picks up on emotions of others.  I think he always has.

Henry has never shown the slightest interest in material things, other than the fast car that his dad also coveted, and video games then computers because they were fascinating, useful, and spiked his interest.  We've never watched a single scene where Henry demanded better clothes, or other status symbols.  It's too bad his career options will be so limited once his parents are exposed because he would have made a pretty good diplomat. 

[SusanSunflower]

I never got the feeling that Stan's Matthew was badly parented and he seemed more mature (likely older IDK) than Paige .... Henry sought out Stan, much as a neighborhood child used to "visit" other neighbors, because no one home was paying any attention to him (not a neglected child) so he sought out the lady next door or across the (pedestrian) street ... he grew into a happy overachiever, Yale Law ... but always a restless and inquisitive soul even at 2-1/2.  Henry "knew" Stan was rattling around an empty house and would like company (he did!) and someone to watch the game with ... Henry was't looking for "Miss Lonelyhearts" but I suspect Stan felt more comfortable advising Henry than he did Matthew (no ex-wife to disagree with him or critique).  Comfortable that Phillip prolly wouldn't object.  Notably Matthew was not seeking our (much younger) Henry for companionship .... something I have found IRL to often be a less than auspicious indicator -- big older boys befriending little kids -- whom they bully or manipulate. 

[Umbelina]

12 minutes ago, SusanSunflower said:

I never got the feeling that Stan's Matthew was badly parented and he seemed more mature (likely older IDK) than Paige .... Henry sought out Stan, much as a neighborhood child used to "visit" other neighbors, because no one home was paying any attention to him (not a neglected child) so he sought out the lady next door or across the (pedestrian) street ... he grew into a happy overachiever, Yale Law ... but always a restless and inquisitive soul even at 2-1/2.  Henry "knew" Stan was rattling around an empty house and would like company (he did!) and someone to watch the game with ... Henry was't looking for "Miss Lonelyhearts" but I suspect Stan felt more comfortable advising Henry than he did Matthew (no ex-wife to disagree with him or critique).  Comfortable that Phillip prolly wouldn't object.  Notably Matthew was not seeking our (much younger) Henry for companionship .... something I have found IRL to often be a less than auspicious indicator -- big older boys befriending little kids -- whom they bully or manipulate. 

  @SusanSunflower I'm so sorry.  They say smoking is more addictive than Heroin.  Smoking acts faster than any drug, and can either pep you up, or calm you down depending on how you puff.  Fast puffs for energy, slow puffs for calming.  It's a very difficult drug to kick.  It took me years to stop, and I still need Nicorette after a decade.  My mother, on the other hand, finally one day got pissed that (probably me) kept saying she couldn't quit (this is before I started smoking) and just threw her cigarettes away one day, after smoking for over 40 years.  She never picked up another one.

Speaking as a multiple Honorary Godmother and Aunt?  It's MUCH easier to be the ideal "substitute parent, friend, advisor, role model" when you can hand the kids back at the end of the day.  I'm very close to all my friends' children, and my nieces, and I've worked with troubled kids as well.  I'm really good with kids, most of them are now adults, and they've told me that, their parents have, and always had trust in me, and I also knew it myself.  I think that even though I've changed my share of diapers and dealt with various child and teen problems and meltdowns?  I never had the day to day drudge of raising them without getting a break, so it was easy to be close to perfect with them. 

I've had conversations like the one Stan and Henry had about Henry's crush on the teacher, I thought that scene completely believable and was frankly a little shocked that some here felt it was creepy.  Though the bond between an adult non-parent can be strong, and last forever?  It's still not the same bond parents and their children have, not even close.  They are still important though, I've, at various times, had them with professors, teachers, my friend's mother, and various aunts.  They meant the world to me, and taught me, made me feel safe, intelligent, interesting, all things to help while you grow into being an adult. 

For Stan, and I think for the same reasons?  It was easier to be with Henry than with Mathew.  He had a clean slate with Henry, and hadn't disappointed him, or pissed him off, and Mathew was between two parents during the divorce.  Henry needed a stable adult to listen to him and Stan enjoyed being with a kid that actually liked and looked up to him.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Umbelina

[SusanSunflower]

yes, and Paige was briefly interesting in her own right when she sought out Pastor Tim and the kids at church and eventually Mrs. Tim .... even if one suspected she might be trying to rile or guilt-trip her parents ... Having "the parents" become the center of the universe (because of their secretes) really sort of doomed Paige's attempt at Freedom!!!! 

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, SusanSunflower said:

I never got the feeling that Stan's Matthew was badly parented and he seemed more mature (likely older IDK) than Paige

I think Matthew's about 3 years older than Paig, fwiw. I was referring to the Matthew/Stan arc in s4. It seemed like the idea was that Stan was a good father when Matthew was younger but he was never able to reconnect with him when he came back. When Philip and Sandra get Matthew to start coming to stay with Stan regularly Matthew eventually says he doesn't understand why he even goes there because Stan isn't there with him when he is. He says he might as well be sleeping in his bed at his mom's house because that's basically all it is. Then he later says he no longer likes watching sports because it's something he and his father used to do together--oh, and he also says, to explain the time Stan spends with Henry, that Stan's good with "little kids" (as opposed to older kids like him). It's a chance that didn't really work at that point.

I don't think that means Matthew and Stan necessarily have a terrible relationship now but Matthew made it clear that season that his relationship with his parent was very painful for him because it seemed like Stan was unable to uninterested in making the effort. So, just, if Henry was looking for a role model who was a dad, I don't think it was Stan who had the same problems his own father had, and more so. 

But I don't think that's the kind of role model Henry was looking for. Paige put Pastor Tim into a more fatherly role where he was always helping her with problems and telling her what to do, but I think Henry was looking at different older guys in terms of what he wanted to be when he was older. So when he hung out with Stan he got to kind of act like he was older.

At least some of the time he was doing this because Philip wasn't there, yes. But other times Philip would be there and Henry would send him away and ask to continue hanging out with Stan. Then when Henry got interested in his friends at school as role models (which was right for his age) he was no longer going over to Stan's house as much.  

This, to me, seems like a really consistent pattern with Henry--although I don't it's one he'd be conscious of or anything. Pastor Tim was a threat to the Jennings because he so clearly was trying to be a substitute parent and guide. Where as I think with Henry his alternate role models are just that--role models. So when Philip gets insecure about one in this ep it's not because Henry seems to have found a new father but that Philip feels like this guy sees Philip as a loser. The very first time Henry goes to Stan to write a report on a hero Philip makes a comment about how apparently Henry thinks FBI agents are more exciting (or something) than travel agents.

[Umbelina]

Yes, Philip did say that about Travel Agents versus FBI agents, but Philip also said Henry was not allowed to write about a parent for that paper.  So Henry didn't choose Stan over Philip there.  He definitely did like the idea of becoming an FBI agent though, doing good, catching the bad guys.

[sistermagpie]

7 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Yes, Philip did say that about Travel Agents versus FBI agents, but Philip also said Henry was not allowed to write about a parent for that paper.  So Henry didn't choose Stan over Philip there.  He definitely did like the idea of becoming an FBI agent though, doing good, catching the bad guys.

Oh, I didn't mean to imply he was choosing Stan in a significant way, just basically what you're saying here. I think Philip himself, too, could understand why a kid would see Stan as cool. If Philip was the guy he was pretending to be he'd probably see Stan as cool too! (He even reminds him of that with Renee, iirc.)

[SusanSunflower]

sorry, total memory lapse on my part about Matthew's complaints wrt Stan, which were pretty common wrt newly single "dads" sharing custody (? on principle or because newly single mom insisted) .  I have vague (possibly unreliable) memories of Stan being rather hateful about Sandra's new partner and their cohabitating ... part of why I was so glad when he hooked up with Renee because he was turning into a stereotyped single bad-dad. (although for Matthew negotiating a "dad's girlfriend" would be no more fun than negotiating "mom's new live in boyfriend" (shortlived?) 

eta: I gave the writing "points" for not making Stan's return a source of resentment for Matthew ... who seemed annoyed that Stan was letting-down his patient mother ... not in need of a "dad" but tv watching company would be welcome (particularly if a beer were shared and friends were welcome) 

Edited May 7, 2018 by SusanSunflower

[Umbelina]

http://www.vulture.com/2018/05/henry-americans-interview-keidrich-sellati.html

Quote

Throughout the run of this show, there have been times where Henry is conveniently not in the picture or it seemed like his parents weren’t paying as much attention to him as they were to Paige. How do you think that made Henry feel? Was it something that you don’t think he really thought about much until he got older?
I honestly think Henry didn’t really care too much about this, and then he started to do questionable things, like breaking into his friends’ houses and spying on the neighbors, which showed that he was getting bored and looking for attention. Until that point, he didn’t really care, and then he started to realize, “No one’s really here for me.” Throughout the rest of the series, he’s shown as more of an independent person.

Obviously he has his friends and other interests.
Yeah, yeah. And then he went to school. He even said, “I just want to get out of this place,” and he did. He was successful. At the end of last season, he was fed up with being around his parents and being in that house all alone, so he went, “I’m out.”

I am loving this interview.

Quote

Paige was actively suspicious of what was going on for a long time, but Henry doesn’t seem to be suspicious. He may be resentful and find his parents’ jobs weird, but he never seems to think, “Maybe there’s something else going on here.”
Henry’s not around enough anymore, and when he was around, he was too young to really notice anything. Now that he’s older, I definitely think he could tell something, but because he’s always in school now, he doesn’t really have the time. When it comes to his parents always being gone, it’s all he’s known his whole life, so it doesn’t bother him too much. Of course it bothers him emotionally, but it doesn’t bother him in any other sense, if you know what I’m trying to say.

Wow, Stan really was driving that car around in the scene with Henry!  I thought all of that was done on green screen now, no wonder it took all night to film.
He reminds me so much of Henry!

Quote

 

 

Are you thinking you want to act full-time or go to school or do you not know yet?
Okay, so I do want to act full-time, but I also want to do online college, but for something completely different than acting. Because, as great as acting is, acting is very unstable. So I would like to have a backup plan that doesn’t revolve around acting. I’m going to be going in for cybersecurity in college.

 

[kokapetl]

made me laugh. 

[kikaha]

Henry is smart, maybe brilliant.  A multi-talented high achiever.  He doesn't need his parents so much, and in fact never has.  He's also quite stable emotionally, sure of himself, a problem solver.

I think Henry will turn out just fine, and it won't take him all that long either. 

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, kikaha said:

Henry is smart, maybe brilliant.  A multi-talented high achiever.  He doesn't need his parents so much, and in fact never has.  He's also quite stable emotionally, sure of himself, a problem solver.

I would make one disagreement--it's not that he never needed them. Of course he needed them when he was growing up and he had them. That's how he grew up emotionally stable and sure of himself and a problem solver. His biggest problem growing up was that he learned early that work would often come first for his parents, which is true for many children, and that probably spurred his independence.

I would guess one of the many ways he's like his father (often without knowing it) is that he doesn't need that much from other people.

[Umbelina]

He's brilliant, but his whole world was just turned upside down.

It would depend on the press on all of this really.  If he's exposed at the son of KGB agents?  This will not be an easy road.

Brilliance doesn't mean being able to handle this kind of news either, being lied to for his entire life by not just his parents, but also his sister?  Could do a real number on him.

Stan may be able to help him stay in the school he loves, but FBI Officers don't make that much money and, what was it, $9000 for a semester may not be something Stan could afford, or would afford.  Stan may be out of a job as well.

Henry will either rise from the ashes or not.  I could easily see him starting to use drugs to get away from his new reality and into a world where he doesn't have to live with it.

Like all the other characters on screen, we don't know how the story ends for Henry.  At all.  Or any of the other characters, it was all left up in the air, with disastrous or good endings equally possible.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Umbelina

[Plums]

One thing I don't think he'll have to worry about is being hounded in the media as the son of KGB spies. That would probably have happened to him if his parents were caught, but they got away, and they lived across the street and were good friends with an FBI counterintelligence agent, and on friendly terms with the head of the counterintelligence division. This is absolutely NOT going to make it to the news. This whole fiasco is getting locked away and more securely buried by the government than William Crandall. 

[Umbelina]

It made it into the news in real life, and the kids were hounded to death and also thrown out of their country.

[Plums]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

It made it into the news in real life, and the kids were hounded to death and also thrown out of their country.

That was 2010. The Cold War was a distant memory then, and people just thought it was a weird, interesting story. 1987 is super different. And like I said, those 2010 spies were caught by the feds, which completely changes the situation with regard to the government caring if the story gets out. Caught = Humiliate Russia in the Media. They Get Away = The US is Humiliated if the Story Gets Out. 

Also, I don't think Paige and Henry's US citizenship could be stripped from them like the Canadian boys. They're natural born citizens, it doesn't matter if their parents were there illegally. 

[Umbelina]

All speculation is equally valid about that.  The writers chose to not tell us what happens, so we can all speculate away.

The cold war was very serious, people HATED the USSR.  My speculation is that it would get a ton of press back then.

Also, the Feds are in the process of rounding up all of the secret posing as American's KGB officers, at least according to Aderholt.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Umbelina

[sistermagpie]

Quote

But he also noted that his dad tried hard to spend time with him. Now- I think he may have felt Paige was more favored due to their parents having to manage the secret with her. But, that’s it. 

You know, I definitely thinks that's part of it but looking back I also wonder if Paige also just became part of the weirdness he noticed but didn't acknowledge he noticed. Paige describes things in early S2 (when she's about the age of Henry in S4) as feeling like something is "always going on" that she doesn't know about and that description just really nailed it. It's after the time jump in S4 that we get a few very pointed scenes of Henry looking after his parents and Paige when they go off to discuss things in private. At the time the most obvious explanation was that Henry felt like they favored her to a ridiculous degree, but I think it may have also been that this was Henry starting to wake up to the same weirdness Paige saw--and that Henry *knows* she saw because she told him at the time when he wasn't yet ready to hear it--and seeing her having been sucked into it.

I mean, he maybe would have noticed his sister becoming such a mess and becoming more and more enmeshed with her parents. It could be regular teenager problems with Paige but given the context Henry has it's quite possible he on some level saw that she'd been assimilated and wanted to avoid that fate himself.  

At which point he seems to make a decision to start concentrating even more on life *outside* the house. He's always at friend's houses (not Stan's house), he makes plans to get out and be at this boarding school. Once there, from a safe distance, he can still take an interest and comment on certain dynamics in the family, but he's away from whatever IT is that makes them different. 

At boarding school he's mostly away from it. He seems to have little relationship to his mother or sister, but those are the two members of the family who want to be totally focused on spying. Philip is the guy putting effort into the life Henry has and that isn't all about The Secret so he's safe. Even catastrophes like potential divorce or a failing business are safe--this is the type of thing Paige hoped the Secret would be too. He can take a kindly interest when home for break but I think back at school he doesn't have to think about it. Even on the ride back with Stan he can talk about stuff like it's just normal parental annoyance--my parents are workaholics, running out all the time. My mom's focused on things rather than what I want for dinner. 

When he talks about not coming home on break he's saying it like he's just annoyed about Thanksgiving but maybe it's more than that. I mean, he actually *doesn't* tell Stan what was really going on that break, how his father was obviously really upset and his parents weren't getting along and his mother barely talks to him but called him tearfully out of the blue when he was already at home. He's already made plans to spend summer--his last summer in high school--far away. Every choice he makes is keeping him away from the house--talking to Dad is a comfort, but being home is not. Especially when he came home for just a few days and couldn't even avoid the weirdness for that short a time. 

I mean, his response to both his father's hidden good-byes is to laugh and not get it as important, but maybe that's partly a defense mechanism. He certainly picked up on his mother's emotion in her phone call (that was maybe easier to do because he's more distant from her and, more importantly, he could bring that problem to his father). He picked up on Philip sounding down on the phone. It just seems significant, maybe, that Henry's able to react when Philip's genuinely upset about work but when his emotion is less easy to pin down Henry aggressively laughs it off as his father being weird or drunk. He couldn't *not* on some level connect his father running off to help his mother with her tearful phone call, could he? Even if he doesn't acknowledge it? Wasn't that maybe why he told him about it, at least partly?

Henry's always responded to real sorrow by withdrawing (and he's always found many different ways to withdraw) and if we imagine him having that reaction when he gets old enough to question his parents' behavior (the exact opposite reaction Paige had) I really think he's been running away from this for years. His talk with Stan and clueless, hearty blow-offs of Philip could be  his last attempts to stick his fingers in his ears and hope that if he doesn't look at it straight on it'll go away and blow over and he can go back to the facade of normalcy. His conversation with Stan in the car could be seen as another attempt to normalize everything--isn't it silly his parents do this, maybe he just won't come home for Christmas. (I guess one could also suggest a cry for help, but if so I think it's more a cry for Stan to help normalize and reassure rather than what Stan actually does.) He's angry at them for again giving him this anxiety about whatever is always Going On. 

This, btw, is totally the way I imagine Henry continuing to deal with this problem for a long while. if not forever (and one of the reasons the Henry/Stan "solution" always rings so false to me).

[Erin9]

I’ll have to dig in later- but as a starter-  I think Henry probably just didn’t want or care really to know. He was the opposite of Paige. Paige thought she NEEDED to know EVERYTHING. Not just that her parents were spies, but to spell out for her every detail she could get out of them. It didn’t make things any more normal though. 

Getting a full handle on Henry is hard because we saw so little of him. He seemed fairly independent from day 1. Paige was needy. He didn’t care when Paige tried to point out the weirdness to him. Maybe he was too young, but he pointedly wasn’t interested. She never got his attention. They never snooped together. 

He referred to his parents as having boring jobs. Maybe he saw something off- but it’s hard to say. He noted the weird hours, but it was all he knew too. 

TBC....

[Plums]

I definitely think Henry thought of Paige as favored more than he had a subconscious knowledge that she was wrapped up in whatever weirdness their parents were in. We didn't see much of Henry in season 5, but what we did see that stood out was how he was hurt at the idea, that he'd internalized, that his parents couldn't possibly see him as all that worthwhile when his teacher spoke to them about moving Henry into an advanced math class and they tried to talk to him about it. He specifically mentioned how they saw Paige as the one who could do no wrong in a way where he had just accepted it. He complained about it to Stan later, that his parents were shocked to discover he was smart because they always thought he was the screw up. 

And the fact of the matter is, for as often as Philip and Elizabeth were suspiciously gone, Henry wasn't around either to notice it or care as much as Paige had been. Henry was always more independent and private than Paige. He was always gone at some friend's house or another, or up in his room doing homework or masturbating to pictures of Sandra in a bikini top or whatever. If he wasn't doing those things, he was playing computer games. So to the extent that he noticed his parents were always gone, whenever he did notice it, he probably just thought they didn't prioritize him, so he didn't trouble himself thinking about it further. He was always super dismissive of the normalized weirdness of how he grew up in the house in any case. Like, Paige saying she was going to check in to see if her parents were in their bedroom and Henry saying something like "No, you're not allowed and you know that.", in a bored, incurious way. Like he always just accepted it and never questioned it the way Paige did. And because he was more independent than her and spent so much time away, it was a lot easier for him to not question it. And really, I think for the most part, P&E were probably home and relatively normal. When the kids were young, before Reagan, they probably didn't have nearly the intense type of operations they had in the timeline of the show. And it was only really from 1981-1983, Philip was gone for two days of the week and they both "worked late" or had to go "back to the office" for one reason or another, every so often, but Henry never paid attention to when they came home in the middle of the night. There was the 7 month break, where P&E were both home but had shifted a lot of focus to Paige because of the Pastor Tim thing, which Henry noticed, and then he decided to buckle down and get into this school and was rarely at home. And then he was away. I take his assessment of his home situation and his parents, whenever he talks about them, at face value. 

[Mrs peel]

On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 11:00 AM, sistermagpie said:

I would make one disagreement--it's not that he never needed them. Of course he needed them when he was growing up and he had them. That's how he grew up emotionally stable and sure of himself and a problem solver. His biggest problem growing up was that he learned early that work would often come first for his parents, which is true for many children, and that probably spurred his independence.

I would guess one of the many ways he's like his father (often without knowing it) is that he doesn't need that much from other people.

If we take Phillip at his word when speaking with Stan in the garage, he felt his entire life was shit.  Phillip needed much more from other people than he was given, especially from Elizabeth.  I wish we'd seen more of his back-story to know his relationship with his parents.  I've ben re-watching Season 1, and Elizabeth being unavailable emotionally to Phillip is a theme.

Henry is pretty young to not need parents. He's still in high school, has no idea how he would pay for the remaining year of high school, keep a roof over his head, pay for college, food, etc.  Never mind how to process that his parents committed multiple crimes against his country.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Mrs peel
wrong word

[sistermagpie]

38 minutes ago, Mrs peel said:

Henry is pretty young to not need parents. He's still in high school, has no idea how he would pay for the remaining year of high school, keep a roof over his head, pay for college, food, etc.  Never mind how to process that his parents committed multiple crimes against his country.

He is young, but he does have an idea how to pay for his remaining year of high school. He'd worked that out himself when Philip couldn't pay it. (Since they weren't talking about Henry having to leave school the next semester I assume he had covered the rest of that year.) Henry was applying for more scholarships and had a job for the summer that was very well-paying and included room and board. So that set him up until college when he'll presumably be looking into more scholarships and financial aid.

How he'll process his life being a lie is another matter, of course, but he'll have to do it without parents. 

[Plums]

2 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

45 minutes ago, Mrs peel said:

Henry is pretty young to not need parents. He's still in high school, has no idea how he would pay for the remaining year of high school, keep a roof over his head, pay for college, food, etc.  Never mind how to process that his parents committed multiple crimes against his country.

He is young, but he does have an idea how to pay for his remaining year of high school. He'd worked that out himself when Philip couldn't pay it. (Since they weren't talking about Henry having to leave school the next semester I assume he had covered the rest of that year.) Henry was applying for more scholarships and had a job for the summer that was very well-paying and included room and board. So that set him up until college when he'll presumably be looking into more scholarships and financial aid.

How he'll process his life being a lie is another matter, of course, but he'll have to do it without parents. 

That's the one thing I think Stan could step in for. If Henry is emotionally capable of handling it after the shocker of his parents being gone permanently and his life being a lie, and if his school even lets him stay there, I could see Stan helping out with the tuition for Henry's senior year. They did after all make a point of Stan mentioning how he wasn't hurting for money in that conversation with Philip. And even if Henry doesn't really need him to take care of him as a parent, I think Stan took that directive from Philip and Paige seriously and would want to help Henry in any way he could. If Stan and Henry didn't really have the close relationship the way a lot of fans interpret he did, I think Stan will feel much more strongly about him now in the wake of this disaster in their lives. They share this betrayal and loss. I agree with you that Henry probably won't need him to a very great extent, especially if Paige will be there, but in whatever way he does need someone, I think he can rely on Stan. 

[Umbelina]

4 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

At which point he seems to make a decision to start concentrating even more on life *outside* the house. He's always at friend's houses (not Stan's house), he makes plans to get out and be at this boarding school.

He stopped hanging out at Stan's quite as much because of Renee, whatever free time Stan had for Henry before, was consumed by first his love affair and later his marriage to Renee.

4 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Henry's always responded to real sorrow by withdrawing (and he's always found many different ways to withdraw) and if we imagine him having that reaction when he gets old enough to question his parents' behavior (the exact opposite reaction Paige had) I really think he's been running away from this for years. His talk with Stan and clueless, hearty blow-offs of Philip could be  his last attempts to stick his fingers in his ears and hope that if he doesn't look at it straight on it'll go away and blow over and he can go back to the facade of normalcy. His conversation with Stan in the car could be seen as another attempt to normalize everything--isn't it silly his parents do this, maybe he just won't come home for Christmas. (I guess one could also suggest a cry for help, but if so I think it's more a cry for Stan to help normalize and reassure rather than what Stan actually does.) He's angry at them for again giving him this anxiety about whatever is always Going On. 

Interesting that you see it as Henry withdrawing.  I never saw it like that at all.  His parents pointedly or as a consequence of their obsession with Paige (and her controlling the Pastors from blowing up their lives) as well as their jobs had THEM withdrawing from HIM, or at least unavailable to him, not visa versa.  Henry simply adjusted as best he could.

Instead of moping about it, although we did see him quite wistful and thoughtful several times as Elizabeth, or Philip stopped whatever they were doing and trailed after Paige?  He went out in a positive way and built his own family.  First it was Stan a bit, he was across the street and friendly, and that did give Henry a father figure (in the same way Philip was for Kimmie really) and once Stan also withdrew because of Renee, with friends and school.

He went out and made his own family figures.  His own family may have loved him, but each and every one of them lied to him constantly.  You can't build solid love and trust on lies. 

4 hours ago, Plums said:

I definitely think Henry thought of Paige as favored more than he had a subconscious knowledge that she was wrapped up in whatever weirdness their parents were in. We didn't see much of Henry in season 5, but what we did see that stood out was how he was hurt at the idea, that he'd internalized, that his parents couldn't possibly see him as all that worthwhile when his teacher spoke to them about moving Henry into an advanced math class and they tried to talk to him about it. He specifically mentioned how they saw Paige as the one who could do no wrong in a way where he had just accepted it. He complained about it to Stan later, that his parents were shocked to discover he was smart because they always thought he was the screw up.

Yes, and we can see he was hurt several times by their preference and obsession with Paige.

What's really happening here though is that we are making up a lot of story for Henry, and much of it's very plausible, and there were a few crumbs left for us to do that along the way.

The writers?  Didn't give a shit about Henry, they just wanted him off screen so they could focus on Elizabeth and Paige, or Elizabeth and Philip.  This was really the Elizabeth show, and that's the story they really wanted to tell.  Henry's at Doug's, Henry's at Stan's, Henry's getting extra tutoring help, Henry's in his room, Henry's outside throwing a tennis ball against the garage, Henry's with some girl, Henry's at boarding school.

3 hours ago, Mrs peel said:

If we take Phillip at his word when speaking with Stan in the garage, he felt his entire life was shit.  Phillip needed much more from other people than he was given, especially from Elizabeth.  I wish we'd seen more of his back-story to know his relationship with his parents.  I've ben re-watching Season 1, and Elizabeth being unavailable emotionally to Phillip is a theme.

Henry is pretty young to not need parents. He's still in high school, has no idea how he would pay for the remaining year of high school, keep a roof over his head, pay for college, food, etc.  Never mind how to process that his parents committed multiple crimes against his country.

 

I wish we'd seen his backstory too.  The writers obviously were much more interested in Elizabeth, and the chance to be "edgy" or "different" by having the cold spy machine be female. 

Henry certainly does need something, he's only 16, and simply by legal standards the USA is not going to just tell him, "well, close enough, you don't need a guardian."  He will also be undergoing intense FBI questioning.

3 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

He is young, but he does have an idea how to pay for his remaining year of high school. He'd worked that out himself when Philip couldn't pay it. (Since they weren't talking about Henry having to leave school the next semester I assume he had covered the rest of that year.) Henry was applying for more scholarships and had a job for the summer that was very well-paying and included room and board. So that set him up until college when he'll presumably be looking into more scholarships and financial aid.

How he'll process his life being a lie is another matter, of course, but he'll have to do it without parents. 

Henry isn't going to make $9000 every 6 months.  That was the non-scholarship part Philip owed.  He may be approved for some of the other scholarships, who knows?  He's still a minor, 16 years old, there are legal issues.

2 hours ago, Plums said:

That's the one thing I think Stan could step in for. If Henry is emotionally capable of handling it after the shocker of his parents being gone permanently and his life being a lie, and if his school even lets him stay there, I could see Stan helping out with the tuition for Henry's senior year. They did after all make a point of Stan mentioning how he wasn't hurting for money in that conversation with Philip. And even if Henry doesn't really need him to take care of him as a parent, I think Stan took that directive from Philip and Paige seriously and would want to help Henry in any way he could. If Stan and Henry didn't really have the close relationship the way a lot of fans interpret he did, I think Stan will feel much more strongly about him now in the wake of this disaster in their lives. They share this betrayal and loss. I agree with you that Henry probably won't need him to a very great extent, especially if Paige will be there, but in whatever way he does need someone, I think he can rely on Stan. 

Would you give that much money to a kid you liked who lived across the street?  For an exclusive PRIVATE school?  Let's get real guys, FBI agents don't make much money.

Aside from everything else, I think Stan's life is going to blow up very soon.  I can't see him staying at the FBI, and I certainly can't see him not telling the FBI that Renee may be KGB and infiltrating. 

There is no way in hell I see Paige being able to not tell the FBI every single thing she knows about everything in an attempt to avoid treason/accessory to murder charges.  Paige is stupid, very immature, and very emotional, she will crack, she will slip up and by doing so?  Ruin Stan's life and the Pastor's lives as well.

Stan will be in no position to help Henry much, he'll be lucky to stay out of jail himself, and he's not old enough to collect retirement.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Umbelina

[Erin9]

6 hours ago, Plums said:

I definitely think Henry thought of Paige as favored more than he had a subconscious knowledge that she was wrapped up in whatever weirdness their parents were in. We didn't see much of Henry in season 5, but what we did see that stood out was how he was hurt at the idea, that he'd internalized, that his parents couldn't possibly see him as all that worthwhile when his teacher spoke to them about moving Henry into an advanced math class and they tried to talk to him about it. He specifically mentioned how they saw Paige as the one who could do no wrong in a way where he had just accepted it. He complained about it to Stan later, that his parents were shocked to discover he was smart because they always thought he was the screw up. 

And the fact of the matter is, for as often as Philip and Elizabeth were suspiciously gone, Henry wasn't around either to notice it or care as much as Paige had been. Henry was always more independent and private than Paige. He was always gone at some friend's house or another, or up in his room doing homework or masturbating to pictures of Sandra in a bikini top or whatever. If he wasn't doing those things, he was playing computer games. So to the extent that he noticed his parents were always gone, whenever he did notice it, he probably just thought they didn't prioritize him, so he didn't trouble himself thinking about it further. He was always super dismissive of the normalized weirdness of how he grew up in the house in any case. Like, Paige saying she was going to check in to see if her parents were in their bedroom and Henry saying something like "No, you're not allowed and you know that.", in a bored, incurious way. Like he always just accepted it and never questioned it the way Paige did. And because he was more independent than her and spent so much time away, it was a lot easier for him to not question it. And really, I think for the most part, P&E were probably home and relatively normal. When the kids were young, before Reagan, they probably didn't have nearly the intense type of operations they had in the timeline of the show. And it was only really from 1981-1983, Philip was gone for two days of the week and they both "worked late" or had to go "back to the office" for one reason or another, every so often, but Henry never paid attention to when they came home in the middle of the night. There was the 7 month break, where P&E were both home but had shifted a lot of focus to Paige because of the Pastor Tim thing, which Henry noticed, and then he decided to buckle down and get into this school and was rarely at home. And then he was away. I take his assessment of his home situation and his parents, whenever he talks about them, at face value. 

I think that’s a good sum up. I tend to think a lot of the differences between Henry and Paige are simply: Henry was just generally independent. Always. Paige was more needy. Always. It fits what Elizabeth said about the kids early on. 

I tend to think Henry was a pretty normal kid. He wasn’t overly interested in his parents. They worked a lot. It’s all he knew. Like most kids- he was mostly interested in himself- his school, friends, sports,etc. What his parents did or what Paige did. Not so much. Aside from him noting they focused on on her more. Or noting they worked a lot at odd hours. 

For all that Henry said in the car to Stan, I hadn’t much thought about what he didn’t say. Which was a lot. 

It’s hard to know what Henry’s real takeaways were from thanksgiving regarding his mom’s unhappy out of nowhere call, followed by his dad leaving to help her.  He also knew they weren’t getting along, that his mom was generally unhappy. He knew his dad was highly stressed  about work. There was a lot that went on in a short period of time. 

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

He stopped hanging out at Stan's quite as much because of Renee, whatever free time Stan had for Henry before, was consumed by first his love affair and later his marriage to Renee.

True! I think season 5 starts with Stan already saying he hasn't seen him as much but once Renee's in the picture that entire dynamic would totally change. Basically both of them grow out of that phase--while still being affectionate, of course. Stan also stops always hanging around the Jennings house as much. Suddenly Stan's house is a place of grown-up dinner parties rather than the house where kids hang out.

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Interesting that you see it as Henry withdrawing.  I never saw it like that at all.  His parents pointedly or as a consequence of their obsession with Paige (and her controlling the Pastors from blowing up their lives) as well as their jobs had THEM withdrawing from HIM, or at least unavailable to him, not visa versa.  Henry simply adjusted as best he could.

I do see him as withdrawing in response to disappointments, definitely. In season 1 when they announce they're separating Henry locks himself in his room and never talks about it. In S6 when Philip tells him about the tuition problem he hangs up and goes off to deal with it alone.

There are scenes where he clearly wants attention from his parents that he's not getting. There's sometimes scenes where he does get the thing he wanted, but it's delayed. And there's scenes where they're all there and he's either off doing something or electronically cut off. He's not, for instance, grabbing for any attention he can get when it's available.

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

He went out and made his own family figures.  His own family may have loved him, but each and every one of them lied to him constantly.  You can't build solid love and trust on lies. 

That's basically what I'm saying. He sought things out elsewhere. Though I wouldn't actually say he was seeking out family figures. I mean, I think one could say that all of the many fathers that Henry connects with reflect his own father who he may sense he doesn't or can't completely know or what he is or isn't getting from him. But I think that's different than him wanting them in that role as family. They all tend to embody whatever adult thing Henry is interested in at the time. Really interesting to think about it that way, actually. Especially since Philip himself is so able to play different roles with other people.

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

What's really happening here though is that we are making up a lot of story for Henry, and much of it's very plausible, and there were a few crumbs left for us to do that along the way.

Absolutely! There's so little I can't help but look for patterns in the things they did wind up putting there!

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Would you give that much money to a kid you liked who lived across the street?  For an exclusive PRIVATE school?  Let's get real guys, FBI agents don't make much money.

Every time I think too hard about the boarding school thing I get annoyed. When Henry first brought it up he threw out "I can get a scholarship!" as an obvious shield against Philip saying it was too much money. Then a season later they remember to mention the scholarship but it's...too much money. But not so much that Henry can't talk as if he can solve this problem himself with a summer job and more scholarships. This is *clearly* the life that his parents are not wanting to take him away from, and yet there's obviously a ton of practical issues that go along with him just continuing on at school without them.

The boarding school basically is just the last in a series of "We can have this conversation in the kitchen because Henry's somewhere else..." things, but still, a kid who wants to go away to boarding school at 13 is running off to be with other kids.

Quote

It’s hard to know what Henry’s real takeaways were from thanksgiving regarding his mom’s unhappy out of nowhere call, followed by his dad leaving to help her.  He also knew they weren’t getting along, that his mom was generally unhappy. He knew his dad was highly stressed  about work. There was a lot that went on in a short period of time. 

But not something Henry seemed to stress or brood over once he left. Of course we can't know for sure, but it's not like they wrote in scenes where Henry was calling Philip after Thanksgiving to check on his parents' relationship or whatever. Some thought he was supposed to be freezing them out because he was angry, but ultimately it seemed like he was just busy the times we saw Philip call. They missed the window.

Edited June 12, 2018 by sistermagpie

[Umbelina]

19 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

That's basically what I'm saying. He sought things out elsewhere. Though I wouldn't actually say he was seeking out family figures. I mean, I think one could say that all of the many fathers that Henry connects with reflect his own father who he may sense he doesn't or can't completely know or what he is or isn't getting from him. But I think that's different than him wanting them in that role as family. They all tend to embody whatever adult thing Henry is interested in at the time. Really interesting to think about it that way, actually. Especially since Philip himself is so able to play different roles with other people.

I mean "family" in the sense that many of us create our own "families" from close friends, mentors, people we like.  I'm not implying he doesn't know who his parents are.  When home lives are not satisfying though, many do that.  That's what Henry has done, he worked to get those feeling of  love and appreciation and security from Stan, from boarding school, from friends.  I think especially he was longing for honesty.

20 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

The boarding school basically is just the last in a series of "We can have this conversation in the kitchen because Henry's somewhere else..." things, but still, a kid who wants to go away to boarding school at 13 is running off to be with other kids.

Yes, it was just a way for the writers to get rid of Henry.

Think about it though, he didn't just want to attend a prestige school, he wanted to BOARD there.  Have his meals, friends, teachers, coaches, bed, conversations, ALL of that was important to him.  He wanted to live somewhere without lies and oddness and secrets.  He didn't blame his parents or sister, or mope about things, he simply changed them.

It's really quite cool.

Too bad the writers only cared about Paige and Elizabeth.  Basically this was the Elizabeth story, with thankfully, healthy doses of Philip since he was married to her.

[Erin9]

My only thing is- I can’t really say Henry felt his home life was dishonest. Or overly weird. Maybe he did. But that’s not clear to me.  We simply didn’t see enough of him. Paige knew there was lies. Did Henry? It’s a bit speculative to me. He never said enough. He thought Paige was favored, but he’s far from the first kid who thought that. IDK- we just didn’t know that much about him. 

What I’m sure about- Henry met a girl who was going to go to boarding school. Henry really started applying himself and got the attention of teachers. He determined this was THE ticket to the life he ultimately wanted. Whatever life that was. 

Giving too much thought about the whole boarding school plot gives me a headache though. It was really more a way to get rid of him and to allow his parents to leave him In the US than anything else. So I hesitate to think too much about deep motives for Henry going. He thought it would be educational, fun, kinda like early college. Maybe Paige issues also drove him there. 

[Umbelina]

Henry DEFINITELY knows there were are lies and weirdness at his house.

There were several scenes where he made it very obvious, for example, watch his face and body when Paige comes home from miniature golf with the Pastors, and he's abandoned outside with the hockey gear.  

It wasn't the only time, I can think of at least four, and considering how little the writers bothered with him, that's a lot.

Kids know.  They sense things.  Adults who think "the kids are fine" or don't pick up on things are fools.  Often though, a kid may think things even worse.  Henry didn't, because I doubt he could have imagined something worse than his parents being KGB spies, routinely murdering people, and having sex with strangers, let alone dear old dad married to Martha.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Umbelina

[sistermagpie]

6 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I mean "family" in the sense that many of us create our own "families" from close friends, mentors, people we like.  I'm not implying he doesn't know who his parents are.  When home lives are not satisfying though, many do that.  That's what Henry has done, he worked to get those feeling of  love and appreciation and security from Stan, from boarding school, from friends.  I think especially he was longing for honesty.

Yes, I agree. Something different came to my mind when describing it that way in this context. In trying to come up with a story for Henry relating to his family it does seem possible that he was reacting to the Secret in some way even if he himself probably couldn't nail it down. Maybe there's an insubstantial quality to his parents, even his father, that seems like it would be a contrast to other people Henry meets. Solid people. Stan's a good start--and he's also an obvious choice since he's close by, friends with his father, friendly. Henry also maybe takes an interest in other peoples' parents (in Stan's case he often relates to him as a single man since he's divorced). One thing that always seems somehow fitting about some of the other people he mentions is that their connection to Saint Edwards seems to tie them to a whole legacy situation. Chris's dad and the one he talks to about Philip both seem like guys with family roots. He's tying himself to people with pasts that are very known to them.

11 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Think about it though, he didn't just want to attend a prestige school, he wanted to BOARD there.  Have his meals, friends, teachers, coaches, bed, conversations, ALL of that was important to him.  He wanted to live somewhere without lies and oddness and secrets.  He didn't blame his parents or sister, or mope about things, he simply changed them.

Yes, I can totally see a situation where Paige noticed the oddness and obsessed over it and demanded to know what it was, then kept trying to make it work for her in some way, while when Henry got old enough to feel some anxiety about it (even if he wasn't aware of it) his more practical solution was to just remove himself from it. Blaming or punishing would get himself tied into it more--he saw and appreciated Philip, especially, making the effort. But at boarding school he didn't have to deal with the weirdness. I could even speculate that away at boarding school he could imagine his family as more normal with normal problems. His parents are who they appear to be on the surface, they just have some problems--it's a drag, but it's not a facade.

 

16 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Too bad the writers only cared about Paige and Elizabeth.  Basically this was the Elizabeth story, with thankfully, healthy doses of Philip since he was married to her.

Yeah, it was pretty much always about Elizabeth's evolution, though Philip was having his own. It's a shame they never saw Henry as an interesting part of that, though. They seemed to love this idea they had that Paige had a "Russian soul" and Henry was an American, but they thought American meant there was drama there with the secretly Russian parents and Soviet spies. Although sometimes they would just say "Paige is like her mother and Henry's like his father" as if admitting that this means obviously only Paige matters. And also as if "Henry's like his father" is self-explanatory. Philip was born practically in a GULAG in Siberia, grew up starving, murdered before adolescence, submitted himself to extreme physical and mental conditioning and oh yeah, grew up in a totalitarian state. I can see ways that Philip and Henry are similar to each other, but there's more to them as individuals than that.