S02.E06: In Zod We Trust

[MarkHB]

Quote

In the wake of tragedy, Seg helps Nyssa rescue their son. Alliances on Wegthor fracture.

[cdnalor]

So this codex thingy is a genetic repository but is also a weapon powerful enough to destroy the population of a moon but small enough for Zod to carry and use at close range with no harm to the user?  That's some pretty versatile tech.

I wonder if Brainiac will ever get around to shrinking Kandor and what direction the show would take at that point.

I find it odd that so many people know and accept that Zod is Lyta's full-grown son from the future.  Was there some sort of press release to bring everyone up to speed?  Lyta's death shouldn't affect Zod's future if her genetic info is stored in the codex but I assume they'll find some way to keep the character on the show.

[theschnauzers]

The show isn’t limited long term to Zod storylines, they just need to figure out how to return him to his original time-place or at least the Phantom Zone.

And this show accepts that timelines change. So certain changes can construct completely new villains at some point.

[Chris24601]

4 hours ago, cdnalor said:

So this codex thingy is a genetic repository but is also a weapon powerful enough to destroy the population of a moon but small enough for Zod to carry and use at close range with no harm to the user?  That's some pretty versatile tech.

Codex: 1) n. A manuscript volume, especially of a classic work. 2) n. A code.

It's basically a complete catalog of every Kryptonian's genetic code.

It's use as a weapon is that you can use the genetic information to create a selectively targeted bio-weapon (ex. kill everyone from the House of El). Its more like the targeting program for a weapon than a weapon itself.

That's why it doesn't need to be very big.

* * * *

Count me as on the stunned side that Lyta's death wasn't revealed to be a fake out. The only thing I can think of at this point short of a time travel reset would be if they've got a backup clone of her (as was revealed with Nyssa in the finale last year) and even then it technically wouldn't even be her even if they do dump the mind readings from the personality scrubber into it.

If not for the fact that all Zod needs to do is put the right combination into the baby-making machine to ensure his birth (only this time without a mother to raise him), I'd think he'd be in danger of fading out of existence like Superman's cape was doing last season.

* * * *

It was also nice to get confirmation that, not only did Nyssa not know about the sabotaged oxygenators; she'd actually gone to Val about Zod wanting the Codex and had Val put in fail safes before she took it to him. Trying to save your kid can justify a lot, but that little tidbit (not betraying Val and ensuring it couldn't be used as a weapon) definitely keeps her on the side of the good guys.

[AnimeMania]

Did Lyta actually have a baby Zod and if so, where is he at now?

[AngelKitty]

1 minute ago, AnimeMania said:

Did Lyta actually have a baby Zod

No, I don't believe she did and it doesn't appear that her death has caused Zod to disappear ... as of yet.

[MarkHB]

Given all we learned last season about the House of Zod and their honor and so forth, I would be surprised if they had clones as backup.  Not that it's impossible, but if it happened I'd have to call bullshit on absolutely everything Jayna has ever said.

[Chris24601]

6 hours ago, AngelKitty said:

No, I don't believe she did and it doesn't appear that her death has caused Zod to disappear ... as of yet.

I’m probably giving the writers too much credit, but if they’re keeping to the previous rules for time travel then this means this Zod was always born in a timeline where Lyta died.

That probably means that Lyta will be brought back eventually via cloning. In Nyssa’d case her consciousness got copied from her mortally wounded, but still living, body. In Lyta’s case it’ll probably be from the brain scans when she was reconditioned and the clone was who raised Dru-Zod.

At some point though something Adam sets in motion has to be what puts the timeline right because right now it’s all still running down whatever path leads to a bottled Detroit with w statue of Zod in it.

[AngelKitty]

7 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

I’m probably giving the writers too much credit, but if they’re keeping to the previous rules for time travel then this means this Zod was always born in a timeline where Lyta died.

But Zod hasn't been born in this timeline so Seg would have to have sex with the Lyta clone and I really don't see that happening.

[Chris24601]

7 hours ago, AngelKitty said:

But Zod hasn't been born in this timeline so Seg would have to have sex with the Lyta clone and I really don't see that happening.

Not really. Nyssa and Seg never had sex and yet have a son together. Krypton switched from natural births to entirely artificial wombs some time in the past (Nyssa considered carrying children naturally to be barbaric in early season one).

It seems they’re running with the “Man of Steel” concept that Kal-El is the first natural Kryptonian birth since the Codex/Birth Matrix technology was developed (at least centuries if not millennia).

All Zod needs is Seg’s DNA and Lyta’s DNA (both in the Codex) and a birthing matrix and he can assure he’s born. Depending on Zod’s age this may have even happened already which is why he isn’t starting to fade out (but his memories might change as the history change impacts him).

Right now Zod needs a stable time loop to maintain his existence. He has to be born so he can come back and ensure he’s born and raised by Lyta with no knowledge of his father’s identity.

Barring more time travel the only way he could still create that outcome is to use a clone of Lyta with implanted memories to raise him.

The best way to stop him would actually be to keep that scenario from happening and let the time travel ripples take care of the rest.

At some point I really need to sit down and try to puzzle out the original timeline (A) and how Zod and Adam’s involvement altered it into the path of season one (B timeline of the dissolving cape) and ultimately to the future in season two (C timeline; current) to figure out just how possible it is to put things back on track (ultimately baby Kal rocketed to Earth from a dying Krypton is the only element that really matters outside of the planet Kypton proper, so there’s a fair amount of room to fudge; though his parents and therefore grandparents would have to remain the same).

Presumably in timeline  A, Seg still stopped the Black Zero terrorist and became Nyssa-Vex’s betrothed, but without the crystal brought by Adam his parents never wouldn’t have died from the skimmer theft. Brainiac showed up, did steal Kandor and destabilized Krypton’s core in the process, but at least Seg and Lyta got out ahead of time, but Lyta believed Seg was dead when she made baby Dru-Zod.

The initial point of departure was probably Zod stealing Val-El’s way out of the Phantom Zone and arriving in the past in Val’s place. Presumably Val returning would have gotten Seg to the Fortress at some point and involved enough in trying to stop Brainiac (or just saving as many as possible) that the House of El got restored.

My hunch is that in this original timeline (and any ultimately fixed one) Nyssa was the mother of Jor-El (and Zor-El if they’re including Supergirl in the mix) because Occam’s razor is that Seg’s betrothed becomes mother of his kids (if not for the laws of narrative causality I’d say most likely would be Seg met someone later, but as a story you’re going to introduce someone as significant as Jor-El’s mother early so you can build it up).

Dru-Zod’s arrival presumably resulted in Seg not making it out of Kandor in time (no returned Val to get him involved). Adam got him somewhat back on track by finding the Fortress, but by actually motivating Seg to save Kandor and then get sucked into the Phantom Zone the result was C timeline. Presumably Adam bringing Seg back from Collu (which didn’t happen originally in timeline C) is going to cause a ripple effect that gives us a so timeline D (which may or may not be close enough to A for Superman to happen).

[AngelKitty]

1 hour ago, Chris24601 said:

It seems they’re running with the “Man of Steel” concept that Kal-El is the first natural Kryptonian birth since the Codex/Birth Matrix technology was developed (at least centuries if not millennia).

I have to admit I didn't think at all about this.

I can't really think about them fixing the original timeline or my head will explode.

[Chris24601]

27 minutes ago, AngelKitty said:

I can't really think about them fixing the original timeline or my head will explode.

The good news is they don’t actually have to fix everything. The only things they really need to fix are A) Jor-El is born to father Kal-El. B) Krypton must explode so baby Kal-El is sent to Earth.

Everything else has varied from one version to the next so if they don’t come to pass it’s not a big deal.

Heck, depending on how things go they could probably finagle events such that baby Kor-Vex gets renamed Jor-El (I don’t think the similarity between Kor and Jor is an accident). Then all you need is Krypton destabilized so it explodes in about 200-ish years and it’s as “fixed” as it needs to be.

[AngelKitty]

I remember when I watched Fringe and they had so many timelines and alternate universes that I tried to draw a chart to figure it out.

I'm trying not to get quite as involved with this show ... but it's pulling me in.

[Chris24601]

52 minutes ago, AngelKitty said:

I remember when I watched Fringe and they had so many timelines and alternate universes that I tried to draw a chart to figure it out.

Well, one useful bit with this show is that because it’s set so far in the past we can actually give everyone a happy ending while still blowing up the planet after they’re dead.

For that matter, if I’m right that Nyssa will be Jor-El’s (and possibly Zor-El’s) mother, then most of the main character’s descendants don’t even go extinct with the planet down the line. Seg and Nyssa’s only two grandchildren (and Val’s great great grandchildren) would be Kal-El (Superman) and Kara Zor-El (Supergirl) who both escape to Earth.

Jax-Ur in the comics gets sentenced to the Phantom Zone for her crimes and so survives Krypton’s destruction. Dru-Zod will eventually be born (continuing House Zod) and survive as well (in one comic timeline Dru’s son; Lor-Zod; is even adopted by Lois and Clark) so that’s Jayna and Lyta’s descendants who make it off Krypton too.

That just leaves poor Dev-Em as short straw on the descendant survival lottery unless he eventually has a daughter who marries Jor or Zor (in which case Dev would actually be either Superman or Supergirl’s other grandfather).

In other words; the future, even when it’s fixed is still extremely up in the air relative to the characters we’re actually following here.

[theschnauzers]

They writers have clearly laid the groundwork to have more multiple seasons of the show, and have all sorts of permutations to play with in the meantime. And Adam will likely be the one, with ValEl to ultimately solve the time paradoxes that have been created. 

[Latverian Diplomat]

On 7/18/2019 at 4:43 PM, AngelKitty said:

No, I don't believe she did and it doesn't appear that her death has caused Zod to disappear ... as of yet.

I wonder what kind of shape the Zod Cape is in right now 🙂

With all the talk of Zod's new weapon being able to penetrate deeply buried and fortified bunkers, I wonder if it's going to end up misfiring into Krypton's core and being the cause of its ultimate destruction.

In the post-Crisis comics, a Black Zero bomb did that, though it was deliberate on their part.

16 hours ago, theschnauzers said:

They writers have clearly laid the groundwork to have more multiple seasons of the show, and have all sorts of permutations to play with in the meantime. And Adam will likely be the one, with ValEl to ultimately solve the time paradoxes that have been created. 

I wish I had more faith that they can fix things in a way that is comprehensible and handwavium free.

[Jacks-Son]

On 7/18/2019 at 1:57 PM, Chris24601 said:

t was also nice to get confirmation that, not only did Nyssa not know about the sabotaged oxygenators; she'd actually gone to Val about Zod wanting the Codex and had Val put in fail safes before she took it to him. Trying to save your kid can justify a lot, but that little tidbit (not betraying Val and ensuring it couldn't be used as a weapon) definitely keeps her on the side of the good guys.

To me, it was also a comfort to know that she was simply being played by Dru-Zod rather than an actual co-conspirator with Dru-Zod.  I had already decided that I liked her and didn't want to find out that I had been fooled also.

Shocked that they would actually kill off Lyta and would not be surprised if they either used time travel or clone technology to have the original, (if she really was an original) replaced by a clone.

The actor playing Brainiac is doing an outstanding job of being creepy.  The guy hanging out with Adam, Kem, is hilarious as the comedic sidekick and aptly fills in the void created without having both Seg & Adam on screen together

I don't know what the Hell happened to the brilliant tactician Jax-Ur, she went REALLY dark for the resistance and seemed to have lost her humanity.  There's a reason that people would rather follow Val than Jax - she crazy!!