Castle - General Discussion

[shapeshifter]

40 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Comparatively, I recall reading that TPTB of Bones also wanted to stretch the mystery of Brennan's mother (yes, big similarities!) over a season, but Fox allegedly nixed it. So it was told all in the S1 finale, "The Woman In Limbo", and I think the show was better for it.

Especially since - later on - the show did have a series of "big bads" with diminishing returns the more it was used. (For instance, the Gravedigger arc was very good, but then there was "Gorgomon" [which was completely derailed by the 2008 Writers' Strike], then the dude that killed poor Vincent Nigel-Murray [and said Gravedigger!], and then, the absolute worst, Christopher Pelant.)

I only wish the network had stepped in post Gravedigger.

The point being, whether Castle, Bones, or The Mentalist, so many shows fall into the "big bad" trap - and usually have no plan or way to dig the shows out from under them.

Exactly.

But I’m guessing:
“so many shows fall into the ‘big bad’ trap - and usually have no plan or way to dig the shows out from under them.”
was not intended to be a pun in reference to the Gravedigger.🙃

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Exactly.

But I’m guessing:
“so many shows fall into the ‘big bad’ trap - and usually have no plan or way to dig the shows out from under them.”
was not intended to be a pun in reference to the Gravedigger.🙃

Oops! But good catch! 😉 Wasn't intentional, true!

[andromeda331]

20 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Comparatively, I recall reading that TPTB of Bones also wanted to stretch the mystery of Brennan's mother (yes, big similarities!) over a season, but Fox allegedly nixed it. So it was told all in the S1 finale, "The Woman In Limbo", and I think the show was better for it.

Especially since - later on - the show did have a series of "big bads" with diminishing returns the more it was used. (For instance, the Gravedigger arc was very good, but then there was "Gorgomon" [which was completely derailed by the 2008 Writers' Strike], then the dude that killed poor Vincent Nigel-Murray [and said Gravedigger!], and then, the absolute worst, Christopher Pelant.)

I only wish the network had stepped in post Gravedigger.

The point being, whether Castle, Bones, or The Mentalist, so many shows fall into the "big bad" trap - and usually have no plan or way to dig the shows out from under them.

They really do. Castle didn't even need a big bad it wasn't that kind of show despite being cops. After Bracken was done the only one left was 3XK which was really the best one of the show. He was creepy as hell but also very smart. Bracken was really too stupid and too many bad people working for him to be the big bad they wanted him to be. While Tyson used people they were usually those who wouldn't be missed and he killed them to keep his plans to himself. Well him and Kelly. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by andromeda331

[Bort]

37 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

They really do. Castle didn't even need a big bad it wasn't that kind of show despite being cops. After Bracken was done the only one left was 3XK which was really the best one of the show. He was creepy as hell but also very smart. Bracken was really too stupid and too many bad people working for him to be the big bad they wanted him to be. While Tyson used people they were usually those who wouldn't be missed and he killed them to keep his plans to himself. Well him and Kelly. 

My only problem with 3XK was, where did he get this unlimited amount of cash to finance his elaborate psychopathy?

[CheshireCat]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

They really do. Castle didn't even need a big bad it wasn't that kind of show despite being cops. After Bracken was done the only one left was 3XK which was really the best one of the show. He was creepy as hell but also very smart. Bracken was really too stupid and too many bad people working for him to be the big bad they wanted him to be. While Tyson used people they were usually those who wouldn't be missed and he killed them to keep his plans to himself. Well him and Kelly. 

I agree that Tyson was a good villain but he, too, was turned into a supervillain who they just couldn't let go of. First, he survives the fall off a bridge into pretty cold water (at least, I'm assuming it was fairly cold since Castle and Beckett looked like the weather was cold) and after that, they get Nieman so that, from the looks of it, they could drag the story out a little longer.

I like a smart serial killer but I get annoyed and rolling my eyes bored when they turn into super villains who survive each and everything and get resurrected endlessly and/or when they are turned insane. I find both lazy writing, the former for obvious reasons and the latter because they can basically do everything they want without having to be rational and or include nuances.

I think Tyson was a good foe in S3, 4 and 5. In S6 and 7, I thought it was too much. (And why was the obsession suddenly switched from Castle to Beckett? The female character often draws the short stick when it comes to these things even if she would make a lot more sense and be more plausible as the target of obsession. But this was one instance where it made no sense. Tyson had targeted Castle because he had figured it out, so why would he choose a partner who obsesses with Beckett and not in a way that is meant to get to Castle?)

[andromeda331]

On 11/13/2023 at 5:40 PM, CheshireCat said:

I agree that Tyson was a good villain but he, too, was turned into a supervillain who they just couldn't let go of. First, he survives the fall off a bridge into pretty cold water (at least, I'm assuming it was fairly cold since Castle and Beckett looked like the weather was cold) and after that, they get Nieman so that, from the looks of it, they could drag the story out a little longer.

I like a smart serial killer but I get annoyed and rolling my eyes bored when they turn into super villains who survive each and everything and get resurrected endlessly and/or when they are turned insane. I find both lazy writing, the former for obvious reasons and the latter because they can basically do everything they want without having to be rational and or include nuances.

I agree I hate when they turn them into supervillains. I like smart villains. They don't need to make them supervillains. 

Quote

I think Tyson was a good foe in S3, 4 and 5. In S6 and 7, I thought it was too much. (And why was the obsession suddenly switched from Castle to Beckett? The female character often draws the short stick when it comes to these things even if she would make a lot more sense and be more plausible as the target of obsession. But this was one instance where it made no sense. Tyson had targeted Castle because he had figured it out, so why would he choose a partner who obsesses with Beckett and not in a way that is meant to get to Castle?)

That's a good point. I don't know why he suddenly became obsessed with Beckett. It would make more sense if he did it to get at Castle. To make his girlfriend/fiancee one of his victims. But that's not what happened. It makes no sense.  

[andromeda331]

Hollander's Woods really should have been the series finale. It was close to perfect. Castle and Beckett investigating the first murder he ever witness. Even though we never heard about it. It was really good. I liked Beckett investigating despite the lack of evidence. Castle gets an award I love his speech and personally thanking Martha, Alexis, Ryan, Esposito and Beckett. He was burnt out  on writing when the series started and now he's doing so well. I love Martha returning to acting and rave reviews. I love Beckett trying to figure out her next challenge Captain or politics. If there was no season eight I would guess Captain. She's ready to move up in the rank. Ryan and Jenny having another baby.

I do wish we knew what Ryan and Esposito's plans were. I see Ryan moving up an probably administrative. Esposito I don't know. I could see him remaining a detective.

I didn't realize it until Alexis's talk with Castle that she really doesn't have a passion. She did a bunch of different things in school and even though she interned with Lanie. Nothing came from it. She didn't decide to be come pre-med or anything. Castle and Martha both had their careers picked out early on. Writing and acting. Alexis's mother probably did too. Alexis doesn't. 

Despite that it would have been a perfect one. Ending with the gang going off to another murder. 

[WendyCR72]

Seems this is a new article, dated just 2 days ago:

Eight Harsh Realities of Rewatching Castle 7 Years After The Show's End.

By the way, technically, if anyone wants, you can add more topics as this is once more technically a forum.

So, just putting the word out. Whether this remains as-is or anyone wants to add, you have the option, is all.

[Guest]

On 1/10/2024 at 1:46 AM, WendyCR72 said:

Seems this is a new article, dated just 2 days ago:

Eight Harsh Realities of Rewatching Castle 7 Years After The Show's End.

By the way, technically, if anyone wants, you can add more topics as this is once more technically a forum.

So, just putting the word out. Whether this remains as-is or anyone wants to add, you have the option, is all.

I agree with some of the points but vehemently disagree with others. Such as the first one - Castle was known for not being a serious person, but I don't believe we saw him mistreating women. Consenting adults can choose casual flings.  

Also, that they had unusual, unrealistic cases?  Imagine that - a tv show about police is not a documentary about police work.   

[KaveDweller]

4 hours ago, deaja said:

I agree with some of the points but vehemently disagree with others. Such as the first one - Castle was known for not being a serious person, but I don't believe we saw him mistreating women. Consenting adults can choose casual flings.  

Also, that they had unusual, unrealistic cases?  Imagine that - a tv show about police is not a documentary about police work.   

Yes, I agree, Castle had respect for women and didn't mistreat them. He liked casual sex, but it was portrayed that the women he slept with wanted the same thing.

I also disagree with the point in that article about Alexis helping with police work being unrealistic. Except for the ridiculous last season, her help was usually that Castle talked about the case at home, she made some seemingly unrelated comment, and then Castle solved the case. That is not exactly getting a teenager involved in police work.

[shapeshifter]

On 1/10/2024 at 1:46 AM, WendyCR72 said:

Seems this is a new article, dated just 2 days ago:

Eight Harsh Realities of Rewatching Castle 7 Years After The Show's End.

The author of the article just graduated from college.
She didn't cite any sources.
It looks like she rehashed a lot of the online opinions of fans from when the show was airing. But maybe to Gen-whatevers Castle does look like a womanizer? 

But she doesn't even say she actually watched the show, does she?

I remember the episode with the model who seemed to be flirting with Castle, and when he found out she was Alexis' former babysitter, he went full Dad mode and set up a fun night for her and Alexis. 

[CheshireCat]

I hardly agree with anything that was written and as shapeshifter said, did the author actually watch the show?

As others have pointed out, cases are almost always unrealistic on TV, Alexis wasn't really involved in police business until that last season (which gave her a character and personality change anyway) and consenting adults can have casual sex and in the end, Castle was a lot more mature than he let on. It seems that the author of the article didn't quite understand that this was mostly a personality Castle portrayed to the outside and that's why we got the scenes at home where we were shown that there was a lot more to him than the playboy mentality he let the world see.

The author does have a point about there not having been any development for the supporting characters. At the same time, that is how this show was structured. The show told Castle's and Beckett's story. The others were indeed just "supporting characters" and their stories only mattered in so far that they interacted with Castle's and Beckett's story.
It's not right or wrong, it's just a matter of preference.

I'm not sure what point the author is trying to make about the police procedural format. Yeah, the show was a mix of procedural and serialized. So what?

I have no idea how realistic it is that a civilian would be involved in police investigations. I'm under the impression that they do use civilians. Not on such a regular basis, then again, this is TV and not a documentary.

As far as Castle's and Beckett's relationship is concerned, the comment gives the impression that the author didn't actually watch the series again. Castle was not as immature as he let the world see. And Montgomery also said in season 3 that he had allowed Castle to stay with Beckett because Beckett could use some loosening up (paraphrasing). 
I'm not sure why the relationship wouldn't be healthy especially since I think we're clearly shown how it comes to be and how Beckett gets to the point where she can admit that she's in love with Castle.

The author does have a point with the last point they're making. Some of those obstacles were ridiculous and unnecessary and were the lazy way to do things.

Interestingly enough, there was the same thing about Pretty Woman on German radio recently. Someone was looking at it through today's lens and just like this article, it sounded like the radio person didn't get the message either.

 

[shapeshifter]

27 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

…Interestingly enough, there was the same thing about Pretty Woman on German radio recently. Someone was looking at it through today's lens and just like this article, it sounded like the radio person didn't get the message either.

Given that the author is a recent college grad, they would have had at least one assignment demonstrating proficiency with using software like ChatGPT to generate content.
Perhaps they then got the job writing content for ScreenRant in part by submitting a writing sample that used such software. I imagine most clickbait sites and webzines that are only a step above clickbait will want to hire "writers" with such skills because they can crank out content quickly and cheaply. 

Richard Castle would be so sad. It's a good thing he's not around any more to see this development.

[CheshireCat]

47 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Richard Castle would be so sad. It's a good thing he's not around any more to see this development.

Can you imagine what he would have had to say about AI generating content. Everyone around him would never have heard the end of it 😆

[andromeda331]

I disagree with the author too. She must not have watched the show. Yeah he had a lot of casual sex he was always really great to the women he was with. He liked to have fun and be goofy. But he was serious when he need to be like insisting they call Alexis's friend Paige's parents' when she had too much to drink. Dropping all interest in sleeping with the model when he finds out she used to babysit Alexis. 

Even though he drove Beckett crazy at first she did grow to appreciate his help in cases. There's a episode where Beckett tells him that she really does like him tagging along. That's early in the series.

The side characters do get a lot to do including their own storylines. Ryan's dating and marrying Jenny, and having two kids. There were episodes all about him. Kick the Ballistics, the Wild Rover, and At Close Range. He and Esposito almost die in the fire. Esposito had his relationship with Lanie and helping Beckett with her PTSD. Episodes Under the Influence, Kill Switch, and Heartbreaker. 

They could have done more with Lanie but she got a relationship with Esposito. She was in a lot of episodes one with the Lanie double, figuring out how Greg faked Amy's death in Anatomy of a Murder and in Kill Switch realizes the kidnapper is getting sicker. 

As for Alexis she didn't really help until season eight when she suddenly was great at everything. She wanted to skip school to help when her favorite singer was murdered but Castle didn't let her and sent her off to school. She did help in ways that made sense. She knew her stalker. She realized Hayley had been raped because she listened to her last song over and over again. Other times as @KaveDweller said were just off handed remarks. 

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I disagree with the author too. She must not have watched the show. Yeah he had a lot of casual sex he was always really great to the women he was with. He liked to have fun and be goofy. But he was serious when he need to be like insisting they call Alexis's friend Paige's parents' when she had too much to drink. Dropping all interest in sleeping with the model when he finds out she used to babysit Alexis. 

Even though he drove Beckett crazy at first she did grow to appreciate his help in cases. There's a episode where Beckett tells him that she really does like him tagging along. That's early in the series.

The side characters do get a lot to do including their own storylines. Ryan's dating and marrying Jenny, and having two kids. There were episodes all about him. Kick the Ballistics, the Wild Rover, and At Close Range. He and Esposito almost die in the fire. Esposito had his relationship with Lanie and helping Beckett with her PTSD. Episodes Under the Influence, Kill Switch, and Heartbreaker. 

They could have done more with Lanie but she got a relationship with Esposito. She was in a lot of episodes one with the Lanie double, figuring out how Greg faked Amy's death in Anatomy of a Murder and in Kill Switch realizes the kidnapper is getting sicker. 

As for Alexis she didn't really help until season eight when she suddenly was great at everything. She wanted to skip school to help when her favorite singer was murdered but Castle didn't let her and sent her off to school. She did help in ways that made sense. She knew her stalker. She realized Hayley had been raped because she listened to her last song over and over again. Other times as @KaveDweller said were just off handed remarks. 

And now I’m wondering if the author of the ScreenRant article might possibly generate another article using AI that might possibly mine our posts.

And if AI was used to generate the article text, I’m wondering if the author fed the title of “ScreenRant” into the bot, which increased the rant-like tenor of the piece.

This really could be fodder for a Castle movie, similar to the recent Monk reunion movie.

[andromeda331]

Castle has suddenly been dropped by Lifetime. I don't know why. It's been replaced by Grey's Anatomy. 

[schnauzergirl]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Castle has suddenly been dropped by Lifetime. I don't know why. It's been replaced by Grey's Anatomy. 

Yes, I just noticed that.  It's been on Lifetime forever, but so has Grey's.  Maybe a contractual issue?

[schnauzergirl]

I see Castle is back on May 22 beginning with the Pilot.

[andromeda331]

On 5/11/2024 at 12:27 PM, schnauzergirl said:

I see Castle is back on May 22 beginning with the Pilot.

Oh, that's good. I was really worried it wasn't coming back.

[aemom]

My husband and I watched the entire series over the last 6 months.

The show was mostly enjoyable, and I agree that the last season contained a lot of WTF?

That whole LokSat thing made no sense at all. Beckett leaving Castle to investigate it on her own was stupid and there were several episodes during their "separated" arc where it was very publicly clear that they were still together.  They were even dating - Natasha and some doctor. And then when they magically get back together, Ryan, Espo, and Lanie say nothing and just accept it? So weird!

And then once Caleb Brown caught on to them, why not just kill them out in the street or wherever? Why the whole elaborate plan with the burner phone. That just made no sense at all.

And then the clearly tacked on ending.

Overall it was a really good show, too bad that it ended so poorly.