Castle - General Discussion

CheshireCat · July 30, 2022

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

I do love that Castle's first thought about the cameras in the cab being for a reality show.

Yeah, of course, his mind would go there.

I also really like the end. I'm usually not a fan when shows wait for the bomb to be at one second or so before whoever is meant to disarm it to disarm it. But I think that this made sense. If you were yanking at all of the wires, you'd wait until the last moment when you have nothing left to lose. And their reactions after were so spot on, too.

Since Alexis was mention upthread: the episode where Castle has the tracking app on his phone was running as well and that's one of the rare moments when she doesn't act like a genuine Mary Sue. Sure, Castle should not have had the app but I think she was way out of line in making it all about it and acting like only he had done something wrong. She lied to him. Not just afterwards but before as well. (I understand that she was deflecting, though).

Generally, I love those moments between Castle and Alexis and how it was used to show a very different side of him.

shapeshifter · July 30, 2022

11 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

Watching the rerun of Setup and Countdown. Shouldn't you want to explore all avenues and not just have it-must-be-the-foreigners-tunnel vision when chasing a dirty bomb? And seriously, he then has the audacity to say to Beckett and Castle that he would have been more impressed if they had succeeded at stopping the bomb? How about some self-reflection. If he had been willing to at least entertain the possibility that Castle was right, Beckett and Castle wouldn't have gone to the warehouse alone. Even if DHS agent hadn't been willing to send a whole team, they would have gone with Ryan and Esposito. That would have been two more people with guns and that would likely have stopped the perps (which couldn't happen because it's a double episode but that's beside the point).

I'm yet again struck by how good the writing and acting was! It was so much more than a crime procedural and no matter how it ended, I wish there were more of this quality on TV.

8 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I agree. That was his full time job. You'd think Fallon would have started to wonder about all the pieces that were being dropped were a little too neatly pointed to the cabbie. How often does that happen? He really should have apologized to Castle and Beckett when they turned out to be right and they found the bomb. And yes some self-reflection. Fallon had been fooled completely by the frame up. Castle had good questions. Why wasn't the cousin nervous if he really knew he was transporting a bomb? Why would he or his cousin have used a bank used by American soldiers?

I do love that Castle's first thought about the cameras in the cab being for a reality show.

Fallon from Homeland Security was definitely a caricature of all the fibbies who have ever shown up on police procedurals to annoy our weekly regular cop main characters.
And Castle always went for the broad characterizations, whether the psycho or the ditzy or the nerd, or, as in this case: the bossy federal agent who horns in on the case even though it's not his turf and he misses the nuances.
And why not write the fed guest actor that way? It serves to make our heroes appear not only more loveable, but smarter even as they bark up the wrong trees of evidence.
For example:
I really enjoyed Castle's conversation with the Syrian guy in the restaurant ——which was so much more effective than Fallon's threatening people he was interrogating.

I kept wondering if the name of "Fallon" was chosen ironically because Jimmy Fallon can be such an over the top goof, but Wikipedia shows this aired just before Jimmy got the Tonight Show gig (Setup first aired Feb 21, 2011).
But the name of Fallon for the Mis-stepping Homeland Security Agent In Charge works better as a slightly inside joke if Fillion and/or the writers were just comedy buddies with Jimmy Fallon.

+++++++++++++

A historical note about this episode that probably nobody thinks of anymore:
2011 was the 10-year "anniversary" of the September 11th attacks, and much was made of it throughout that year.
They mention that Fallon lost his wife in the second tower as a reason why he's so sure it's Middle Eastern terrorists and why he has anger issues.

Kudos to the writers for not making it a bigger event in the scope of history than it was, but instead demonstrating the long term effect of the event on individuals (including the perps and the murder victims in this episode).
The line at the end about it being "a long day" was all the poetry it needed as an historical footnote.

Edited July 30, 2022 by shapeshifter

andromeda331 · July 30, 2022

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Fallon from Homeland Security was definitely a caricature of all the fibbies who have ever shown up on police procedurals to annoy our weekly regular cop main characters.
And Castle always went for the broad characterizations, whether the psycho or the ditzy or the nerd, or, as in this case: the bossy federal agent who horns in on the case even though it's not his turf and he misses the nuances.
And why not write the fed guest actor that way? It serves to make our heroes appear not only more loveable, but smarter even as they bark up the wrong trees of evidence.
For example:
I really enjoyed Castle's conversation with the Syrian guy in the restaurant ——which was so much more effective than Fallon's threatening people he was interrogating.

I kept wondering if the name of "Fallon" was chosen ironically because Jimmy Fallon can be such an over the top goof, but Wikipedia shows this aired just before Jimmy got the Tonight Show gig (Setup first aired Feb 21, 2011).
But the name of Fallon for the Mis-stepping Homeland Security Agent In Charge works better as a slightly inside joke if Fillion and/or the writers were just comedy buddies with Jimmy Fallon.

+++++++++++++

A historical note about this episode that probably nobody thinks of anymore:
2011 was the 10-year "anniversary" of the September 11th attacks, and much was made of it throughout that year.
They mention that Fallon lost his wife in the second tower as a reason why he's so sure it's Middle Eastern terrorists and why he has anger issues.

Kudos to the writers for not making it a bigger event in the scope of history than it was, but instead demonstrating the long term effect of the event on individuals (including the perps and the murder victims in this episode).
The line at the end about it being "a long day" was all the poetry it needed as an historical footnote.

I'm not sure what they wanted Fallon to be. They did show him with tunnel vision and a jerk in part one. But then find out his wife died on 9/11 and Castle and Beckett wonder about all the other times that they didn't know about possible terrorist attack while wondering how hard that would be for Fallon who did in part two. If they were going with tunnel vision about Middle Eastern terrorists and anger issues. They should have had him apologize at least at the end and rethinking his job and/or methods. They don't. If they were going with a hard ass who turned out not to be that bad by adding his wife died in the South Tower. They clearly failed. They seemed to want both but it didn't really work out. They even could have linked Fallon up with the real terrorist showing they weren't that different. Fallon driven and furious over his wife's death and constantly having to deal with terrorists. While McCann was furious over the deaths of his army buddies and how they were treated by the government.

I like Castle's scene with the Syrian guy too. They were really good. Castle was right that the last thing Syrian would want was to be blamed for the terrorist attack.

I do like Castle telling Alexis that she couldn't tell Ashley and later telling Beckett how hard it was and he felt terrible. Later asking Fallon (or was it Montgomery?) if they should evacute the city even though they don't know where the attack is.

shapeshifter · July 30, 2022

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

I'm not sure what they wanted Fallon to be. They did show him with tunnel vision and a jerk in part one. But then find out his wife died on 9/11 and Castle and Beckett wonder about all the other times that they didn't know about possible terrorist attack while wondering how hard that would be for Fallon who did in part two. If they were going with tunnel vision about Middle Eastern terrorists and anger issues. They should have had him apologize at least at the end and rethinking his job and/or methods. They don't. If they were going with a hard ass who turned out not to be that bad by adding his wife died in the South Tower. They clearly failed. They seemed to want both but it didn't really work out. They even could have linked Fallon up with the real terrorist showing they weren't that different. Fallon driven and furious over his wife's death and constantly having to deal with terrorists. While McCann was furious over the deaths of his army buddies and how they were treated by the government.

I think Fallon was just supposed to be damaged. Not redeemed.🤷‍♀️
But also, Fallon was not as damaged as the army vets who almost succeeded in setting off a dirty bomb in Manhattan.
I appreciate that they acknowledged the 10 year "anniversary" of 9/11 with a 2-parter that looked at where are those affected now, rather than with a military parade or something.

Castle is one of the few shows I still enjoy in reruns.🌟
I like the mix of drama and comedy, but also the writing is tight, and both the main and the guest casting works.

I really liked the suave actor playing Fariq Yusef, so I looked him up, and chuckled over them casting an Israeli actor as the Syrian Diplomat/Secret Police.

______________________________________________

🌟At least I like to rewatch almost all of the episodes.😉
But I doubt I'll ever rewatch any of Fillion's current show.

CheshireCat · July 31, 2022

14 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Fallon from Homeland Security was definitely a caricature of all the fibbies who have ever shown up on police procedurals to annoy our weekly regular cop main characters.
And Castle always went for the broad characterizations, whether the psycho or the ditzy or the nerd, or, as in this case: the bossy federal agent who horns in on the case even though it's not his turf and he misses the nuances.
And why not write the fed guest actor that way? It serves to make our heroes appear not only more loveable, but smarter even as they bark up the wrong trees of evidence.

I don't consider him that bad or over the top, actually. I also think that as a DHS agent, he did have the right to take over the investigation as this was about terrorism. As far as I know, that is his turf. He also allowed Castle to stay on, at least until he met with the Syrian.

I just think he should have acknowledged in some way or form that he was the one who screwed up and/or that they would have caught the bombers at the warehouse if he had been more open-minded.

Speaking of the warehouse, they seem to have taken a lot of artistic license with the medical care. Leaving aside the fact that, as far as I know, you have to warm people up gradually, Beckett, who passed out earlier than Castle is already up and standing and more or less ready to go? And what was Josh doing there? If he was at home, there'd be no need for he to play doctor because there'd be a doctor on hand if one was needed. If he was at the hospital then he would no ride in an ambulance or be able to just hop on to the ambulance because he felt like it.

That said, I generally appreciated how the show used Josh to let Castle and Beckett get closer and develop their relationship. I also like how Castle, while hurt, accepted that Beckett had a boyfriend. Yes, there were moments when his jealousy shone through but it was subtle and for the most part, he was very mature and he-just-wants-Beckett-to-be-happy about it.

It's one of the things the show was unique about or, at least, not atypical.

(I think what I hate the most about Josh is an off-handed remark by Beckett in episode 2, 3 or 4 of S3. Castle makes a comment and Beckett replies with something along the lines of Josh has performed major heart surgery, what have you done today or with your life, or something like that. I absolutely hate that comment for so many reasons. One, she puts herself down with it and suggests that what Josh does for a living matters more than what either she or Castle are doing and two, the whole cast and production crew puts itself down with that comment and dismissive them as artists. But without artists people like Josh would have no escape. It doesn't matter whether it's music or books or paintings or anything else. The world would a much sadder and greyer and emptier place without the arts. The arts are food for the soul. Not to mention that reading actually stimulates creativity and imagination which is important for intelligence. Rant over ;-))

MerBearHou · August 3, 2022

Castle is one of my favorite go-to shows that I can rewatch again and again (like the OG Law & Order). I’ve decided that Ryan and Esposito are just magic together — the characters AND especially the actors. They play off of each other so well and their timing of their lines and reactions is perfection. I love them both.

andromeda331 · August 3, 2022

38 minutes ago, MerBearHou said:

Castle is one of my favorite go-to shows that I can rewatch again and again (like the OG Law & Order). I’ve decided that Ryan and Esposito are just magic together — the characters AND especially the actors. They play off of each other so well and their timing of their lines and reactions is perfection. I love them both.

So do I. They were a great pair.

KaveDweller · August 5, 2022

On 7/30/2022 at 11:15 PM, CheshireCat said:

(I think what I hate the most about Josh is an off-handed remark by Beckett in episode 2, 3 or 4 of S3. Castle makes a comment and Beckett replies with something along the lines of Josh has performed major heart surgery, what have you done today or with your life, or something like that. I absolutely hate that comment for so many reasons. One, she puts herself down with it and suggests that what Josh does for a living matters more than what either she or Castle are doing and two, the whole cast and production crew puts itself down with that comment and dismissive them as artists. But without artists people like Josh would have no escape. It doesn't matter whether it's music or books or paintings or anything else. The world would a much sadder and greyer and emptier place without the arts. The arts are food for the soul. Not to mention that reading actually stimulates creativity and imagination which is important for intelligence. Rant over ;-))

That didn't bother me so much because Castle was trying to make fun of Josh and kept calling him motorcycle boy just to annoy Beckett. Then Becket dropped the fact that he was a heart surgeon and had saved someone's life that day, what had Castle done that morning? Saying he hadn't done anything that day (to get him back) is pretty different than saying he hadn't done anything with his life or that artists aren't important.

On 8/2/2022 at 10:36 PM, andromeda331 said:

So do I. They were a great pair.

They really had excellent chemistry, and good chemistry with how the interacted with Castle/Beckett. The main 4 really are what made the show. I can rewatch it any time because of that too.

andromeda331 · August 5, 2022

4 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

That didn't bother me so much because Castle was trying to make fun of Josh and kept calling him motorcycle boy just to annoy Beckett. Then Becket dropped the fact that he was a heart surgeon and had saved someone's life that day, what had Castle done that morning? Saying he hadn't done anything that day (to get him back) is pretty different than saying he hadn't done anything with his life or that artists aren't important.

They really had excellent chemistry, and good chemistry with how the interacted with Castle/Beckett. The main 4 really are what made the show. I can rewatch it any time because of that too.

So can I. I still cry when Ryan and Jenny think he's going to die in the fire and Jenny wants to pick a name for their baby together. He suggests Sarah Grace after Jenny's grandmother and Javier. That's just so sweet. Esposito is touch but only jokes about naming an Irish kid Javier. I love that Javier is the middle name of Ryan's son. That's so wonderful.

andromeda331 · August 5, 2022

Here's a question did Beckett ever really want kids? She never really talks about having kids. I thought maybe she didn't. When she tells Castle she's never been a baby person that seem to fit with her. She likes and gets along with Alexis but she never had to raise her. She gave her advice and stuff but never came off like she wanted one of her own. I don't like Castle asking if Beckett didn't like rainbows and she has to clarify she didn't hate babies. I see Castle wanting more kids. He loved Alexis and really enjoyed being a parent. But Beckett I'm not so sure.

shapeshifter · August 5, 2022

37 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Here's a question did Beckett ever really want kids? She never really talks about having kids. I thought maybe she didn't. When she tells Castle she's never been a baby person that seem to fit with her. She likes and gets along with Alexis but she never had to raise her. She gave her advice and stuff but never came off like she wanted one of her own. I don't like Castle asking if Beckett didn't like rainbows and she has to clarify she didn't hate babies. I see Castle wanting more kids. He loved Alexis and really enjoyed being a parent. But Beckett I'm not so sure.

The future episode with the 3 kids did feel like a retcon to me.
——even though: wasn’t there some fake fortune teller who predicted Becket would have 3 kids or something?
And didn’t Becket bond with the baby they took in for a few days and named Cosmo?
But in real life, it’s not unusual for a woman who doesn’t really care much for other peoples kids to discover they love their own. 🖐
The retcon for me was that Becket gave up enough of her career to have 3 kids.
But, now that I think about it, Castle could afford the best Nannies and preschools.

CheshireCat · August 5, 2022

27 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

The future episode with the 3 kids did feel like a retcon to me.
——even though: wasn’t there some fake fortune teller who predicted Becket would have 3 kids or something?

It was the time traveler in S6 (?). He said Castle wrote non-fiction or something along those lines and that the book jacket said he lived with his wife, Senator Beckett and three kids in... somewhere.

A part of me thought it was cute that they referenced him when they had three kids. The other part thinks that it's a little silly because time travel.

27 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

And didn’t Becket bond with the baby they took in for a few days and named Cosmo?

She did.

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

Here's a question did Beckett ever really want kids? She never really talks about having kids. I thought maybe she didn't. When she tells Castle she's never been a baby person that seem to fit with her. She likes and gets along with Alexis but she never had to raise her. She gave her advice and stuff but never came off like she wanted one of her own. I don't like Castle asking if Beckett didn't like rainbows and she has to clarify she didn't hate babies. I see Castle wanting more kids. He loved Alexis and really enjoyed being a parent. But Beckett I'm not so sure.

It wouldn't be unusual for someone to want to have kids once they meet the right person. When they encountered the time traveler, it seems that the number 3 was what shocked Beckett but not the fact that she and Castle had a child/children together.

I agree that she doesn't seem like a kid person. On the other hand, they pretty much stopped exploring and developing the characters once the story with Beckett's mother's murder was over and they set up the new mystery. Instead of that, they should have explored who Beckett is now that the person who was responsible was behind bars and what her life with Castle would look like. There would have been so much they could have done with that, for example, she became a cop because of her mother's murder, so even though she could still bring closure to other victims, was it still the job she wanted?

With regards to children, I could see her realizing that now that this was all behind her, she did want to start a family of her own with Castle. I guess, this is what you get for not thinking something through. (I've never seen This Is Us but I applaud the creators for saying this is a so-and-so-many-seasons show and sticking with it. They should have done the same with Castle. This was a show that should have been mapped out from beginning to end in order to tell the story and the early seasons felt like it. The latter did not and I don't think that's only because of the leads not getting along anymore but the showrunners stepping down as showrunners as well).

6 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

That didn't bother me so much because Castle was trying to make fun of Josh and kept calling him motorcycle boy just to annoy Beckett.

I don't think it was to annoy Beckett but that it was his way of dealing with the situation. There was a lot for him to process, he was jealous, Josh was a good guy he couldn't really find fault with and, I think, he believed he couldn't compete with and I don't think he wanted to find fault with Josh because he realized that he wanted Beckett happy more than anything else. (S3 seemed to have him at the 'if you love them, let them go' stage, until he realized that she wasn't in love with Josh and had difficulties allowing herself to fall in love).

6 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Then Becket dropped the fact that he was a heart surgeon and had saved someone's life that day, what had Castle done that morning? Saying he hadn't done anything that day (to get him back) is pretty different than saying he hadn't done anything with his life or that artists aren't important.

I think the implication remains the same, although, I do understand that Beckett may have been defensive and it's always been the writers I disliked for writing that line more than Beckett for saying it.

But Josh was a heart surgeon. When you're a heart surgeon saving people's lives is pretty much the job description, so, in theory, what Beckett is saying is Josh did his job this morning. So does she want him to get a cookie for doing is job and not screwing it up? (I realize that something can go wrong during surgery but I'm assuming that more often than not, he's saving the lives and not losing them).
But being a heart surgeon and saving someone's life doesn't say anything about his character or what kind of person he is. As a matter-of-fact, from what my friend tells me, most surgeons she works with have a pretty big ego and are not the nicest people to be around/tend to look down on the OR nurses/assistants like her. Some of them also do sleep around. So, they may save lives but their characters can suck.

There's also the matter that she has no idea if Castle may not have inadvertently saved a life that morning as well. Someone somewhere could have discovered his books and for some reason, it could have given them new hope or purpose. Or he could have been nice to someone, made small talk to someone which made them feel seen and therefore, gave them a new spark of hope. Or he delayed a person and they didn't walk in front of the truck they may have walked in front of otherwise. The same goes for her, actually. We all impact the people in our lives in different ways and may have effects on people that we're not even aware about.

Additionally, artists are notoriously insecure and doubt themselves non-stop. I think they also showed that with Castle, that he does not actually think as highly of himself as he makes others believe he does. In part, that has to do with the job of an artist itself - you're constantly facing criticism and critics, it's a highly competitive world and you always strive to improve and become better - but the other part has to do with society and the artistic profession is not as well regarded as the one of a doctor, for example. So, I'm sure Castle is feeling inadequate enough without her putting him down, too.

I think the comment was unnecessary. At the very least there should have been a reply pointing out that, congratulations, Josh was doing his job and that does not make him a better person than Castle or Beckett.

On 8/2/2022 at 9:58 PM, MerBearHou said:

Castle is one of my favorite go-to shows that I can rewatch again and again (like the OG Law & Order). I’ve decided that Ryan and Esposito are just magic together — the characters AND especially the actors. They play off of each other so well and their timing of their lines and reactions is perfection. I love them both.

I agree. There are so many fun scenes between the two of them but also between the four main characters that I had forgotten about and that I'm rediscovering with the reruns.

KaveDweller · August 6, 2022

18 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Here's a question did Beckett ever really want kids? She never really talks about having kids. I thought maybe she didn't. When she tells Castle she's never been a baby person that seem to fit with her. She likes and gets along with Alexis but she never had to raise her. She gave her advice and stuff but never came off like she wanted one of her own. I don't like Castle asking if Beckett didn't like rainbows and she has to clarify she didn't hate babies. I see Castle wanting more kids. He loved Alexis and really enjoyed being a parent. But Beckett I'm not so sure.

There was an episode where they briefly talked about it and implied she wanted them, but then they got interrupted by someone. I think the writers tried to avoid them talking about kids too much because they didn't want to add a baby on the show, and if they had Castle and Beckett say they wanted a baby, it would be weird if she didn't get pregnant. It didn't seem strange that she'd eventually want a kid though, lots of people want them even if they don't talk about them.

One thing the writers did right was not bring a baby on a show about murder.

17 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

The retcon for me was that Becket gave up enough of her career to have 3 kids.
But, now that I think about it, Castle could afford the best Nannies and preschools.

Who says she gave up any of her career? All we know is that 7 years after the show ended they had three kids running around.

16 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

But Josh was a heart surgeon. When you're a heart surgeon saving people's lives is pretty much the job description, so, in theory, what Beckett is saying is Josh did his job this morning. So does she want him to get a cookie for doing is job and not screwing it up? (I realize that something can go wrong during surgery but I'm assuming that more often than not, he's saving the lives and not losing them).
But being a heart surgeon and saving someone's life doesn't say anything about his character or what kind of person he is. As a matter-of-fact, from what my friend tells me, most surgeons she works with have a pretty big ego and are not the nicest people to be around/tend to look down on the OR nurses/assistants like her. Some of them also do sleep around. So, they may save lives but their characters can suck.

I really think she just wanted to get Castle to shut up and the writers didn't think much more about it.

I have heard similar things about surgeons (although we didn't really see Josh enough to know what he was actually like).

Bort · August 6, 2022

15 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Who says she gave up any of her career? All we know is that 7 years after the show ended they had three kids running around.

Especially since Castle’s career is a work from home type.

CheshireCat · August 11, 2022

I always wondered if the nod to the guy from the future with the three kids may also have implied that Beckett did become a Senator. In hindsight, it would have been great if they had given us an indication to that which, I think, they could have done by having a newspaper headline somewhere that read something about Senator Beckett or Captain Beckett or whatever comes after Captain in the NYPD or have Beckett come home from work or something.

I never assumed she'd given up her career though. She doesn't strike me as the kind of woman who would and I don't think Castle would have wanted her to either. In my mind, he did give up his (silly) PI business though and went back to being a proper/full-time writer.

Bort · August 11, 2022

4 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

In my mind, he did give up his (silly) PI business though and went back to being a proper/full-time writer.

Or handed the PI business over to Alexis and Hayley since they did all the work anyway.

Goob · August 18, 2022

Just wanted to chime in and say I started watching Castle since December of last year. Great series(up until S8 where things really fell apart, IMO show started to decline around S6 with the wedding planning and themed episodes, show was in its prime from S3 to S4) with a different take on crime mysteries/police procedurals. Do have to admit the binge watching helped with not seeing the obvious issues that arose in later seasons(strained relationship between the 2 leads, continuity errors, lack of secondary character development, absurd soap opera storylines, at times bumbling fool Castle and supercop Beckett, bizarre clothing choices for Castle and at times Beckett). Nathan and Stana imo definitely were a lightning in the bottle pairing that managed to give us great Caskett moments(reflective, emotional, personal, humorous, dramatic, romantic as in sweet not hot/sexy) from S1-S7(S8 both characters were not themselves). Shame the show ended with BTS issues/drama and a tacked on ending that didn't do justice for the fans.

Primetimer forum I recently checked out last month and I'm glad I didn't watch this live seeing as how in later seasons Castle became harder to watch with the declining writing, increased reliance on OTT arcs that didn't make sense, missed opportunities(more Caskett hot/sexy moments, Beckett/Alexis interaction, more scenes outside the precinct, knowing more about Castle's writing), and plot driven moments that didn't add up to the characters. Can't imagine how hard it was to watch Castle given all the contrived things the writers did and the deviation from the writer and muse story from the start. Nice to hear about the episode discussion(for S7-S8) along with the Spoilers and Speculation in this forum there was good to great discussion I missed out I was too young back then lol. Definitely agree with some points made on the forum regarding the episodes themselves and what could've been done to the show to make it better.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Goob

shapeshifter · August 18, 2022

14 minutes ago, Goob said:

Nice to hear about the episode discussion(for S7-S8) along with the Spoilers and Speculation in this forum there was good to great discussion I missed out I was too young back then lol. Definitely agree with some points made on the forum regarding the episodes themselves and what could've been done to the show to make it better.

I enjoy the reruns now more than I did when all the discussion here tended to be an echo chamber for the celebrity gossip and whining about the writing.
I'm not saying all of that wasn't happening on the screen or off.
It's just that I don't notice it now without having it all pointed out for every episode.
Plus I skip any episodes I don't care for.

Goob · August 18, 2022

12 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I enjoy the reruns now more than I did when all the discussion here tended to be an echo chamber for the celebrity gossip and whining about the writing.
I'm not saying all of that wasn't happening on the screen or off.
It's just that I don't notice it now without having it all pointed out for every episode.
Plus I skip any episodes I don't care for.

Yeah agreed, did feel like the repetitive and constant criticism at times about Castle in the forum was a little sad to see from some users as I did find enjoyment watching Castle(outside S8) in spite of its flaws. Plus Castle is really just mindless TV so all in all if you don’t like what’s going on Castle better to watch something else than vent about the problems with the show.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Goob

tessaray · August 18, 2022

At one point Castle was my favorite show and some of the most bitter posts (from S6 on) in the vaulted forum are probably mine. 🤦‍♀️ I loved the show and it was painful to watch what happened to it. But time marches on... now I can just enjoy seasons 1-5 and occasionally 6 for what they are.

CheshireCat · August 18, 2022

4 minutes ago, tessaray said:

At one point Castle was my favorite show and some of the most bitter posts (from S6 on) in the vaulted forum are probably mine. 🤦‍♀️ I loved the show and it was painful to watch what happened to it. But time marches on... now I can just enjoy seasons 1-5 and occasionally 6 for what they are.

I'm the same. The more I like a show, the more critical I am. I think it's because the shows start out so well and/or have such a high standard and it is disappointing and frustrating when they lose that standard and/or when characters lose their development/regress. (As Beckett and Castle did in S8 and in part in S7 (Beckett doubting Castle's story at the beginning of S7 never made sense with regards to character development to me).

The creators of Castle, just like the creators of Madam Secretary, gave me the impression that they actually cared about the characters they created. I felt that they were treated with respect and that is very unusual for TV shows. Usually, characters seem to be a means to an end (and while I still enjoy watching many TV shows, I can never get invested in those shows and I also find it disrespectful to the characters (fictional or not, they are a person) and the viewers/fans. I also don't understand how a creator doesn't take more pride in their work). S6 and S7 had the BTS trouble but in S6, it was obvious that the creators still cared about the characters. In S7 they were looking to find their footing and I think it's more than obvious in S8 that Hawley couldn't have cared less about the characters.

Goob · August 18, 2022

As far as favourite episodes of Castle was wondering what your guys’ favourites are, here are mine by season:

Season 1

Flowers For Your Grave(Great pilot episode imo, love the “you have no idea” quote by Beckett with the Stop and Stare song playing in the background it’s one of my favourite moments of the show)

A Chill Goes Through Her Veins(Liked the mysterious old fashioned murder and laughed at Castle and Beckett pretending to be married scene😂)

Home is Where the Heart Stops(The scene with Caskett at the gun range was sexy, loved how Beckett tried to connect with the victim’s daughter and giving advice to her on how to grieve through her mother’s death, liked the idea of undercover work for Beckett and Caskett to find the donors for the case, laughed at Castle singing pananana… in the car then the criminal falling at the front and Castle turning the windshield wipers to knock him off the car LOL)

Season 2

Double Down(Hilarious betting duel between Castle/Beckett and Ryan/Espo and case was fun with the trade off murders)

When the Bough Breaks(Baby case was great definite kudos to the person who sacrificed herself just to understand the truth, laughed at the Beckett “I’m gonna kill you” line to Castle after Beckett found out about Castle’s new book deal, and loved the book party which we don’t see often especially the scene where Castle tells Beckett’s she’s extraordinary after Beckett marvels to Castle about the dedication of his book)

The Fifth Bullet(memorable case, loved Marc Blucas who played Jeremy Preswick)

Sucker Punch(Great moment of Beckett admitting how much fun it was fun having Castle around after Castle tried to make it up to her by bringing her food, thought Castle was really sweet and caring in this episode as he tried to pay off the ransom to find who killed Beckett’s mom, overall solid JB episode)

Tick Tick Tick/Boom(Interesting case with a killer who wanted to get revenge on Nikki Heat aka Beckett, was slightly amused with Beckett’s jealousy of Castle adoring the FBI gadgets and the FBI agent Jordan Shaw, nice little taunting message by the killer that Nikki Will Burn heh, liked the little twist where Castle realized the killer was left handed and fooled the FBI that the case was closed and promptly managed to warn Beckett before the apartment exploded, nice cliffhanger at the end of Tick Tick Tick of Beckett’s apartment going boom, enjoyed the killer’s MO of obsessively trying to beat Nikki Heat in Boom by capturing Jordan Shaw, loved Castle’s thoughtfulness in bringing in Beckett to his apartment along with Castle using his outside the box thinking to detect where the killer is with Shaw, fitting that Beckett aka Nikki Heat manages to defeat the killer Scott Dunn in a one on one duel with some help from Castle shooting the gun out of the killer’s hand, loved at the end where Shaw credits Beckett for the case with Beckett exchanging back she learned a lot from Shaw with Shaw pointing out Castle’s usefulness and Castle’s care for her, also so sweet for Castle to give Beckett her dad’s fixed watch, Dana Delany was fantastic as Jordan Shaw in this 2-parter and had great chemistry with Fillion and Katic)

Wrapped in Death(Laughed too many times in this episode especially where Beckett, Espo, and Ryan pranked Castle with the coffee machine making Castle believe in the Mummy Curse)

A Deadly Game(Thought the case was really interesting in that the case involves a spy game but also involved an affair(ironically the next episode is A Deadly Affair lol), nice to see Castle playing poker with his fellow writers and talk about the case, Beckett and Castle working his last case was a little sad for Beckett knowing how much she enjoyed having him around, loved the reflective nature of Beckett in that she reconsidered if she really wanted to be with Demming at the cost of not working with Castle anymore, appreciated the little drinks Castle had with Lanie, Ryan, Espo, and Montgomery as you could tell the growing bond was there between Castle and the 12th, was heartbroken for Beckett that she couldn’t continue talking further with Castle about her appreciation working with him but was glad Beckett understood how much she cares about Castle)

Season 3

3XK(Nice intro episode of Jerry Tyson with the start of the Castle vs 3XK battle, loved the Caskett holding hands at the end)

Close Encounters of the Murderous Kind(Interesting sci-fi case involving aliens)

Last Call(Liked the historical callbacks in this one and loved the end scene of the crew singing Piano Man together that showed great camaraderie)

Nikki Heat(Hilarious episode with someone intimating Beckett, laughed a few times(I.e. Beckett’s I need to go over there, Ryan’s remark of a nickname for a Beckett clone, Beckett’s venting about the actress taking her coffee), Laura Prepon made a good impression in this episode)

Poof You’re Dead(The Caskett moment where they built theory on the guy who faked this death and looked at each other with glee was probably one of my favourites)

Knockdown(Fantastic JB episode, Beckett and Castle start to develop more trust in one another, nice sweet moments between Caskett in Beckett’s loft trying to tie in Raglan with another mobster’s case 7 years ago from JB’s murder, loved the Ryan/Espo bromance displayed in seeing them trying to protect each other from torture by jerking with Lockwood, that fake Caskett kiss was hot, nice that Castle saves Beckett from getting shot by Lockwood and Beckett thanks Castle in the ambulance for having his back, end scene of Beckett’s speech to Lockwood of who hired him was powerful with that background music)

Final Nail(Liked the fact we got to see someone of Castle’s past who contributed to Castle being a writer, seeing Beckett try to trust Castle with his friend was reassuring, end scene with Castle and Beckett was another great scene that exhibited their developing friendship)

Setup/Countdown(My favourite 2-parter, had nice Caskett moments(in spite of Josh being there) especially the one in the freezer with the 2 holding each other for warmth and the Caskett hug after Castle pulled the wires out the bomb, had thrilling and exciting moments that makes me want to rewatch)

To Live and Die in LA(Great to see Beckett in non-detective mode as well as Caskett outside the precinct and Caskett in the hotel with Castle sharing his articulate words to Beckett and the Caskett looks were wow, nice note at the end of the Royce letter to remind Beckett of risking her heart for the job)

Knockout(IMO easily the best cliffhanger on Castle with Beckett getting shot with Castle saying ILU and seeing those Caskett moments here were some the best emotional moments of the series such as the Caskett argument in Beckett’s loft and Castle dramatically pulling Beckett away from the hangar and attempting to calm Beckett down, also salute to Montgomery who sacrificed himself to protect Beckett and his family)

Season 4

Rise(Great scene with the team watching the doctors rescue Beckett outside of Josh getting in the way, nice to see Castle help out Beckett on her first days back as detective given the circumstances she dealt with, I understood the lie given Beckett really wasn’t ready to enter a relationship since she was dealing with the emotional aftermath of her shooting)

Kick the Ballistics(Thought it was a nice Ryan-centric episode, I truly appreciated how much more I got to learn about Ryan as a person who always wants to do the right thing, Beckett and Ryan had some good moments as well, liked Castle’s contribution in trying to find the connection to the Triads and the murder case, was slightly amused with Espo’s undercover clothing of some hipster friend, nice that Ryan was able to help Ben Lee(part of the Triads initially) to find new life in Los Angeles after his supposedly girlfriend was murdered, loved the toast Ryan brought up at the end about the murder victim with Castle, Beckett, Ryan, and Espo)

Cops and Robbers(Loved how Beckett and Castle worked together even in a hostage situation, fantastic to see Martha involved as well, also that Beckett smile to Castle really sticks out in this episode)

Kill Shot(Stana did a nice job portraying Beckett’s PTSD and I loved the vulnerability she displayed with Espo and Espo’s make the weakness a strength quote was fantastic, also nice to see Castle let Beckett try to figure it out while helping out the case at the same time)

Cuffed(Thought it was a nicely trapped Caskett episode with some humorous moments, thoroughly enjoyed Caskett working it out in handcuffs to find a way out in spite of snarky and sarcastic remarks they made at each other, nice to see the Caskett teamwork make the dream work on full display in spite of the limitations of the cuffs, slight note I enjoyed the tiger and the creepy lady as both were unexpected and made the episode more exciting to watch)

The Blue Butterfly(Loved the 1940s noir case and the main cast playing 1940s characters, had a fun time listening to Castle continuously do his noir narration and Beckett being so into the love story of the noir case)

47 Seconds(Nice remainder of how life can’t be taken for granted, loved the emotional scenes in this one I definitely felt for the victims, especially liked the Castle/Alexis moment where Castle tries to comfort her daughter from the trauma of the bombing)

Undead Again(Loved the Caskett reunion at the end with Beckett acknowledging to Castle she was seeking therapy to tear her walls down and feel where she wants to be, the zombie case was not too unrealistic, nicely done by Castle who with zombie makeup acted like a zombie to force a confession off a suspect)

Always(Best episode of the series with the Caskett argument at Beckett’s loft(great acting by Stana and Nathan) with them spilling the lies that showed great emotion and the scene from Alexis’ speech to Caskett’s passionate kiss in the loft remains the best moment on Castle, seeing Beckett and Castle release those frustrations of each other turning it into passion was satisfying to watch)

Season 5

After the Storm(Great bed scene of Caskett talking with honesty and warmth with kiss hilariously interrupted by Martha, loved the detective team working the JB case and Castle’s hug with Beckett showed honest vulnerability from her, also kudos to Stana showing Beckett’s anger at Bracken which packed a punch emotionally)

Murder He Wrote(One of my all time favourites, that Hamptons house was breathtaking, Caskett had lots of great moments in this one(especially Beckett being overly blushed with Castle reassuring she wasn’t like the other girls visiting the Hamptons, the Caskett theory building scene, the end scene with Beckett and Castle in bed), Ryan’s interrogation of the suspect was funny)

The Final Frontier(Fun geeky sci-fi case, nice to see Beckett be a fan of Nebula 9, for some reason Castle’s “oh my god” girly scream to Alexis’ outfit made me laugh, loved Beckett explaining to Castle how Nebula 9 was about identity change was a nice way of her opening up to Castle, end scene was cute with Beckett teasing Castle with the Creaver suit and the rawr)

Target/Hunt(loved seeing Castle’s dark side in this one involving his daughter, great to see Beckett support Castle, loved Castle and his dad having that conversation which was heartfelt, shoutout to Nathan who really shined in this 2-parter)

The Lives of Others(great Rear Window murder mystery Beckett and co. set up for Castle to open up as birthday present, lots of great lighthearted moments which are a fitting tribute to the 100th episode)

Still(all the flashbacks played in this one remind me all the fun, dramatic, emotional, romantic, and comedic moments Caskett had during their journey, heartfelt scene of Caskett saying ILU to each other made me cry a little, Beckett stepping off the bomb and falling into Castle’s arms for a hug made me grateful that Castle would stand behind her even in the worst moments)

Season 6

Valkyrie(Beckett’s surprised reaction made up for a meh proposal by Castle and I appreciated Castle and Beckett willing to make the relationship work, some funny and sweet Caskett moments I liked as well, also Castle had a hilarious vent with Ryan/Espo)

Number 1 Fan(Shoutout to Alicia Logano who played Emma Riggs, case was similar to Cops and Robbers but this time Castle showed excellent composure with the suspect, some nice Caskett moments like Beckett venting to Castle about getting fired and Beckett holding the engagement ring while waiting for Castle, was good to see the suspect meet her father and Beckett back at the 12th)

The Good, the Bad & the Baby(Nice to see Caskett take care of a baby that wasn’t their own, liked the lottery ball twist in the case as I didn’t see that coming, laughed at Espo pranking Ryan with throwing away his lotto ticket, thought it was cute seeing everyone’s reactions trying to hold the baby)

Under Fire(This one made me cry knowing how much I’ve cared about the Ryan/Espo bromance, incredible heartfelt scene with Jenny and Ryan on the phone as you could see her clinging on hope Ryan could see the baby, Caskett and the rest of the 12th precinct did a great job working together to save Ryan/Espo, end scene with Lanie & Espo, Castle & Beckett with Ryan, Jenny and the baby was a memorable emotional moment)

Smells Like Teen Spirit(Case reminded Caskett of their high school days missing prom, interesting telekinesis theories here, loved the Caskett kiss at the end with the In My Veins song and Castle’s quote to Beckett of how every terrible little thing led to her and he had no regrets of missing his prom)

Room 147(Clever case with 3 confessors of the same crime, the dialogue between Castle and Beckett reminded me of the earlier seasons, nice Alexis and Beckett moment which we don’t see often, laughed a few times in this one (like when Beckett said “If I hear that confession one more time I’m gonna shoot somebody.”))

Veritas(Satisfying conclusion to the JB arc, great that Caskett worked together on this one with assistance from Ryan/Espo and Gates, nice to see Beckett surviving Bracken’s hit men from being drugged showing her ability to get out of tough situations, Beckett arresting Bracken was a great milestone for Beckett as she got justice and the Caskett hug at the end was heartfelt that I was proud of how Caskett came together to solve her mom’s murder)

Season 7

Clear and Present Danger(Throwback to earlier season banter between Caskett, a cool idea of a cloaking suit to make someone invisible, also Caskett was hot and sexy at the bed and at the end where Beckett stripped herself in front of Castle wearing thermal goggles)

Meme is Murder(Interesting case and I liked that it wasn’t the usual red herring like it was before, good to see how social media can be a problem especially when it relates to cyber bullying, murder suspect(Adam Lane) was a creepy yet arrogant character who I found interesting knowing he used social media as a way to vent and gain popularity for being a victim of bullying)

Time of Our Lives(Loved the AU aspect of this episode seeing what Castle, Beckett and others would’ve been without Caskett meeting each other, great to see Castle find a way to connect with AU Beckett who wasn’t as determined and gave up on herself to be the best version of what she could be, wedding was amazing minus the green screen as the vows were romantic and reflective of what Castle and Beckett have brought to each other in their relationship and the wedding included only family members making it more intimate, fitting Caskett dances to In My Veins during their wedding in their end scene, shoutout to Terri Miller who wrote the vows along with Nathan and Stana who delivered those vows with genuineness and heartfelt emotion)

Once Upon a Time in the West(Fun wild west episode with lots of sweet and romantic Caskett moments, Caskett felt like elated newlyweds in this one and I enjoyed them outside the precinct once again, nice to see Lanie, Ryan, and Espo’s reactions to not being invited to the wedding, Beckett with the black corset and Western dress good lord she was smoking hot, appreciated Castle’s enthusiasm in finding the gold lol he definitely had a fun time up west, loved the end scene with Beckett lassoing Castle and the Caskett kiss)

Castle, PI(Caskett was amazing in this one despite being separated at times, laughed at Perlmutter chasing Castle in the morgue with Perlmutter’s ringtone playing after and Ryan trying to come up with crazy theories like Castle lol, Caskett theorizing scene followed with a kiss that followed with a cute bed scene the morning after now that was hot and fun, nice to see Beckett smile every time she was with Castle as she sorely misses having him around, nice change up to see Castle investigating alone without NYPD resources, appreciated the competitive angle in this one, dialogue and banter had great energy and humour like earlier seasons)

I, Witness(Good follow up serious episode in the PI arc, case was intriguing with some Hitchcock twists similar to TLOO, was fond of Beckett supporting Castle and trusting him with his judgements throughout the episode, appreciated that Castle admits being a PI can be challenging and ambiguous, sweet Caskett kiss at the end and loved Beckett trying to assure Castle before that it wasn’t his fault for one of his clients being murdered)

Resurrection/Reckoning(Incredible 2-parter to conclude the 3XK arc, Dr Kelly Nieman played be Annie Wersching was just as creepy as Jerry Tyson and also was a perfect psychological antagonist to Beckett, Michael Mosley did an outstanding job of making me ambiguously guess if the fake or the real Jerry Tyson was in the precinct and providing the psychological battle between Castle and 3XK, Castle’s desperation in finding her wife was well documented and I felt his emotions every step of the way(shoutout to Nathan as he shined in this 2-parter), nice use of Marcus Gates in an attempt to get revenge on Tyson, great fakeout by Castle(kudos to the camera work on that one) to outsmart Tyson using Ryan/Espo assistance where Tyson lured Castle to see his wife die in the hands of Nieman, nice touching scene where Castle gently hugs Beckett after Beckett battles herself to kill Nieman, heartfelt scene in bed with Beckett comfortably cuddling on Castle’s chest after a sweet kiss provides a satisfying end to the episode)

Hollander’s Woods(My preferred series finale imo as it delves into Castle’s past at 11 years old, great to see a psychological killer involved in Dr. Holtzman and how it ends with Castle’s speech about a writer’s award he earned acknowledging his family, the 12th precinct, and Beckett where Castle points out Beckett’s quote “you have no idea” which inspired Castle to be a better man and writer)

Season 8

The Last Seduction(While Caskett are separated atm, this episode felt more like typical Castle as Ryan and Espo were working with Castle and Beckett more often in this one compared to previous Season 8 episodes, was nice to see Castle surprise Beckett on their wedding anniversary with a dinner invite, also relieved that Ryan and Espo managed to reconcile after a heated conflict 2 episodes ago, Caskett scene at the end in bed and with their kisses reminded me of how much they love each other and how much I missed their interaction for much of Season 8)

Death Wish(Rare episode in season 8 where Caskett have many sweet moments and Caskett work together on the case with Ryan and Esposito, good to see Beckett and Castle talk about the 3 wishes he’s using considering the case relates to a genie, episode was not dragged down by a convoluted Locksat conspiracy also the end scene with Lanie, Espo, Ryan, Castle, and Beckett checking on Jenny’s baby at the hospital was a touching social moment that was sorely missing throughout Season 8, Castle’s conversation with Beckett about how he already has what he wished for was another lighthearted moment that made this episode one of the only few positives in a disastrous season 8)

Excuse me for that long list with the episode explanations but from seasons 1-7 there were highlights that definitely made my Castle viewing experience an enjoyable one. I appreciated all the lighthearted, serious, humorous, dramatic, and reflective moments Castle brought and do think in spite of some missteps and questionable writing choices that Caskett’s relationship seemed stable and was improving each season up until S8.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Goob

CheshireCat · August 18, 2022

59 minutes ago, Goob said:

As far as favourite episodes of Castle was wondering what your guys’ favourites are, here are mine by season:

It's been a while since I've seen all of the episodes but from looking at the Wikipedia list, I don't remember to have any true favorites from S1. There are some episodes I like less than others but they all have their moments and many S1 episodes just work great because the whole episode makes sense and is sort of a mini-movie.

Is the episode where Castle makes the list of most eligible bachelor a S1 or S2 episode? I love that one, it's got a lot of great Castle-Beckett scenes.

I also like almost all of the episodes related to Beckett's mother's murder. (So, Sucker Punch, Knockdown, Knockout, Rise, Always, After The Storm, Veritas). Not so much for the plot itself (I think they could have done a better job of thinking it through from beginning to end) but I love those episodes for the character development and the emotion they portray. They're all very intense, the characters' actions and reactions are written and acted so very well, the arguments are great and make sense (arguments are very hard to write and more often than not, one character gets dumped on and the other lets it happen. Not so with those episodes, Castle and Beckett actually get to argue and you get to see both sides), there's always a wide range of emotion portrayed and those were usually the episodes where the character and relationship development happened.

I also like the two-parters from S2, S3 and S4.

Other favorites include:

Season 2

Fool Me Once...

If The Fifth Bullet is the episode with the guy who can't remember his name and Castle makes him sign his name and it's not readable then that one.

A Rose For Everafter (Aside from the acting, I loved how they didn't go the traditional TV show route with an old flame of a character and that Kyra got married to her fiancé in the end. There were also a number of excellent moments that told us a lot about the characters and their relationship).

Season 3

Nikki Heat

(There are likely more but it's been a while since I've seen them)

Season 4

Eye Of The Beholder

Cops And Robbers

Cuffed

An Embarrassment Of Bitches (I thought Hilarie Burton's character was hilarious).

The Blue Butterfly

Season 5

Murder, He Wrote

After Hours

Secret Santa

Still (Hands down, one of the best "Bottle" and "flashback" episodes ever done on TV).

The episodes from S6 aren't bad but most are lacking what made the show special. The ones I rewatch the most are probably Number One Fan and The Good, The Bad and The Baby

I'm not sure I have any favorites after that. The ones I like the most from S7 are The Time Of Our Lives and the season finale. I think S8 had episodes that had some very good moments but no stand-out episodes.

Overall, I felt that Castle had a great balance of how they structured the season. They often opened up with an episode that addressed the Castle-Beckett relationship, then they had a number of episodes that were more case-of-the-week focused then we got a few more Castle-Beckett episodes with an episode that dealt with her mother's murder and the two-parter towards the middle of the season, then it was back to the case-of-the-week episodes and the season closed out with one that was more Castle-Beckett focused. And while the COTW may not necessarily be my favorites, it's not that they were boring. The ensemble made them fun to watch and the cases were always well thought-out and not run-of-the-mill procedural. I was just totally in it for the characters, character development and their relationship, that's why I enjoyed the episodes that had the most of those scenes the most.

Goob · August 18, 2022

13 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

Is the episode where Castle makes the list of most eligible bachelor a S1 or S2 episode? I love that one, it's got a lot of great Castle-Beckett scenes.

I think you might be referring to the Third Man which was Season 2 Episode 14 where Castle was going on some date(he was the #9 bachelor from the newspaper so yes I believe it’s this episode) with some #3 bachelorette then Beckett becomes jealous and in return goes on a date with some fireman and somehow Castle and Beckett end up at the same restaurant. Then Castle and Beckett build theory on top of it while at the restaurant to solve the case or find the Third Man as said on the episode title.

Goob · August 18, 2022

19 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

If The Fifth Bullet is the episode with the guy who can't remember his name and Castle makes him sign his name and it's not readable then that one.

Yep it was that one, I felt for the victim and was hoping he’d be able to find his footing again with his life despite the memory loss but yeah was a cool case. Luckily, he managed to happily be back with his his ex-wife or ex-girlfriend so that was nice to see.

Goob · August 18, 2022

22 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

Overall, I felt that Castle had a great balance of how they structured the season. They often opened up with an episode that addressed the Castle-Beckett relationship, then they had a number of episodes that were more case-of-the-week focused then we got a few more Castle-Beckett episodes with an episode that dealt with her mother's murder and the two-parter towards the middle of the season, then it was back to the case-of-the-week episodes and the season closed out with one that was more Castle-Beckett focused.

This is probably one of the reasons I did enjoy the show especially from S1-5 and S6 to an extent despite some flaws. It wasn’t necessarily the same episode each week like one episode could be about the mombatross, one about castle and Beckett’s romantic weekend, one where we find out about Beckett’s past(aka Under the Gun), a 2-parter dealing with Castle’s past, one about some crazy sci-fi case, one about Ryan(I for the most part liked the Ryan-centric episodes) and etc. In a way though some people had issues with this structure especially in later seasons considering the continuity issues it presented and some missed opportunities characters could talk about but in fairness it’s a classic TV show that’s well balanced so I usually didn’t have issues with it.

Although I think towards the end once the JB case was over the structure got more confusing and more unbalanced ala S7 with castle’s disappearance where this structure wasn’t working anymore(or completely changed but I’m not 100% sure) although it didn’t affect my viewing too much the pacing of S7 felt off compared to previous seasons so the way Castle’s disappearance was tied up was very confusing and S8 with the separation and Locksat(god I hated that name) the S8 episodes were confusing and I wasn’t quite sure what the show runners were aiming for which also didn’t help that most characters were way OOC in S8. IMO the last 2 seasons the structure was very disjointed that really affected my enjoyment on the last season(S7 was watchable for me and there were good episodes still).

CheshireCat · August 18, 2022

26 minutes ago, Goob said:

Although I think towards the end once the JB case was over the structure got more confusing and more unbalanced ala S7 with castle’s disappearance where this structure wasn’t working anymore(or completely changed but I’m not 100% sure) although it didn’t affect my viewing too much the pacing of S7 felt off compared to previous seasons so the way Castle’s disappearance was tied up was very confusing and S8 with the separation and Locksat(god I hated that name) the S8 episodes were confusing and I wasn’t quite sure what the show runners were aiming for which also didn’t help that most characters were way OOC in S8. IMO the last 2 seasons the structure was very disjointed that really affected my enjoyment on the last season(S7 was watchable for me and there were good episodes still).

Miller and Marlowe stepped down as showrunners after S6. As far as I know, we never found out why but I would not be surprised if they did because they wanted to have a wedding at the end of S6 and the network refused (I seem to recall reading that the network didn't want to go ahead with the wedding but don't quote me on that).

Given how they built the show, I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to end it after S6 since the leads didn't get along anymore or if their vision of how it should continue didn't suit the networks.

I do believe that it was the fact that Miller and Marlowe were not allowed to continue with what they had created which threw the show and the structure off balance. With most shows you don't notice changes in showrunners all that much. They often come and go. But the structure and writing for Castle in S1-6 was closer to a book than a TV show and that's why I think the change in showrunners was so noticeable. If you start a book series, you want to tell a story, either of one character or of multiple characters that intersect with one another. Either way, if another author takes over halfway through, you'll notice because they don't have the same understanding of the characters, their relationships and their surroundings for the simple reason that they're not in your head.

I don't remember why, it's possible that I read something about Hawley but I didn't think he would be the right person for the job. I felt that David Aman (who took over for S7) could do okay and I think he did the best he could with what he was given but I never expected more from Hawley. He tried to take someone else's creation and make it his own instead of trying to continue it in their spirit. I don't know the man but it's the reason I do not have a favorable opinion of him. I don't think you do that. If you're handed the reins to an established show, I think you owe it to the people who made the show a success, the fans and the characters to continue the show in the way it was intended (to the best of your abilities anyway) and not hijack it.

As much as I wanted more of Castle, the show deserved to end with a S6 wedding. (The only reason I wanted it to go on was because I wanted more of Castle and Beckett and hoped that they'd be able to go back to what made S1-5 so great and as much as a cancellation would have hurt, it would have been the right thing. On the other hand, letting it go on made saying goodbye so much easier. I still mourn the end of Madam Secretary and White Collar (for both shows, their final season was probably their weakest but that was because they were given a reduced season to wrap things up instead of a full season and both shows maintained their high standards and quality in every aspect but plot until the very end) while I'm glad Castle ended. So, going out on top and letting a show run past its due-date both have their advantages and disadvantages).

Goob · August 18, 2022

@tessaray @CheshireCat Just wanted to ask what examples of scenes(based on here S6 and later) on the show exhibited friction between the 2 leads(apart from the obvious less screen time together) because tbf I’m not the best of observers when watching TV shows so I miss this stuff. Plus there were some good Caskett moments from S6 and later(at least for me but YMMV) that sometimes I didn’t notice the odd body language/friction between the 2 leads at times.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Goob

Goob · August 18, 2022

2 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

I was just totally in it for the characters, character development and their relationship, that's why I enjoyed the episodes that had the most of those scenes the most.

Yes this, I think that’s why I liked this show because it wasn’t some typical crime procedural like others but it had cases that connected with characters, some cases were fun and I enjoyed some of the dialogue Castle, Beckett, Ryan, and Espo shared with each other. Relationship wise yeah Caskett was the driving force but Ryan/Espo had a nice bromance that added a little more comedy/lightheartedness to the episodes.

CheshireCat · August 18, 2022

37 minutes ago, Goob said:

@tessaray @CheshireCat Just wanted to ask what examples of scenes(based on here S6 and later) on the show exhibited friction between the 2 leads(apart from the obvious less screen time together) because tbf I’m not the best of observers when watching TV shows so I miss this stuff. Plus there were some good Caskett moments from S6 and later(at least for me but YMMV) that sometimes I didn’t notice the odd body language/friction between the 2 leads at times.

I don't think that the friction itself was visible. What bothered me most about S6 and onward was more how the scenes were written, that the development of the relationship and characters stopped and that the depth went missing. The episodes became much lighter even if they dealt with heavier topics (like Beckett missing her mother when trying on the (monstrosity of a) wedding dress) and it felt like things weren't properly explored anymore and became somewhat of a routine. (The wedding preparations kind of felt like they were just running down a list but, as mentioned above, didn't include much relationship exploration/character development. To use the example above, yes, the scene when Beckett explained to Castle about her mother's dress was good but did it really do anything for their relationship? Compare that with that moment in S5 when they do their handshake (that they then never used again). There was something there that the scene with the dress didn't have and they didn't even kiss in that moment. Or the scene when Beckett explains the stick and stone men. It just feels different).

I also think the little things went missing. For example, in S5 episode 7 (I think, the one with the musician and documentary crew), there's that moment when Beckett has had enough and Castle touches his hand to her face and comforts her. Or when Alexis goes missing, Beckett takes his hand and holds it.
For me, it's that which represents the kind of relationship they had. They don't need to kiss to express their affection for each other. And yet, it's mostly what they do in S6 and onward while there's no reason for these little moments to go missing.
Their shared scenes at home were more cute than anything else. (Not that that is a bad thing, it just made them different).

Another, different, example is the scene from The Belly Of The Beast where Beckett writes the letter to Castle. I think it has more intensity and emotion than many of the scenes they have together and the only episode where I can remember that level of intensity between the two of them is Veritas.

(Sorry for the very wordy reply. I'm a very empathic person, so a lot of the changes that I noticed are based on feelings. In the scenes I mentioned above from S5 and The Belly Of The Beast, I could feel the love Castle and Beckett are supposed to have for each other. I could not feel it in many of the other episodes of S6 and onward. But that makes it very hard to put into words what changed).

With that said, I think the natural chemistry Katic and Fillion have is off-the-charts and I can't remember another show where the chemistry was that noticeable from the first episode on and I think that natural chemistry saved many of the scenes they had together because they just played off each other so well. And by the time S6 rolled around, they probably had developed a rhythm that had also become a habit and they benefited from that.
I think if you didn't know that there was friction between the leads you wouldn't have noticed it from the show, you likely would just assume that the writing had changed and lost part of its quality.

Goob · August 18, 2022

2 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

They're all very intense, the characters' actions and reactions are written and acted so very well, the arguments are great and make sense (arguments are very hard to write and more often than not, one character gets dumped on and the other lets it happen. Not so with those episodes, Castle and Beckett actually get to argue and you get to see both sides), there's always a wide range of emotion portrayed and those were usually the episodes where the character and relationship development happened.

Gotta say, I 100% agree with this. Even though some on this forum prefer the lighthearted fluff all the time, I think these JB episodes are nice ways to challenge the characters and add more emotion and human flaws to the characters that may not be present in lighter episodes(although I think earlier seasons did a better job balancing each episode with some drama and lightheartedness).

I think this also explains why I was extremely disappointed with Castle’s disappearance and the separation/Locksat arc. Compared to the JB arc where at times ok characters made some bad mistakes but I never doubted their intentions and understood where it came from, these 2 arcs were too plot driven in that the writers forced the characters to act OOC so the plot was dictated their way so I couldn’t quite sympathize with the characters.

Now I couldn’t understand why the characters would act like this(not that I’m saying they have to act a certain way) but at times it was glaring like where Espo immediately thinks Castle orchestrated his abduction without maybe trying to question if something is off(that was where I was like WTF) or when Beckett separated from Castle without telling him anything because she was trying to protect Castle from Locksat supposedly yet at the same she’s touching and flirting with him without any concern that Locksat may catch on to them. This was where they lost me in S8 it was like the writers wanted to have their cake and eat it too as in they want me to believe Beckett loves Castle so much and can’t resist getting off him yet at the same time make me think she’s separating from her husband for good intentions. Similarly the fake cheating in Tone Death(Season 8 Episode 9) by Castle and Beckett just to pretend they are broken up so Locksat doesn’t find out made no sense character wise and it really was beyond distracting and Beckett slapping Castle in the face in the precinct just wasn’t what I’d imagine Beckett doing for good intentions especially as Captain it just looks unprofessional. Sad that Ryan and Espo were heartbroken that Castle and Beckett were cheating but yeah much of S8 made me really frustrated the writers would undermine Castle and Beckett’s marriage to pull off that kind of plot.

Sigh I really wished S8 was just all lighthearted because I think the writers tried to bring the spark and lightheartedness from earlier seasons back onto Castle and were trying to inject some drama but it was a massive failure that I wished they didn’t even attempt to go dramatic as dramatic episodes got progressively worse(outside of 3XK and Hollander’s Woods)after the JB case was solved.

Btw I’ve enjoyed this conversation so far nice to know of the fond memories of the show.

Goob · August 18, 2022

1 hour ago, CheshireCat said:

The episodes became much lighter even if they dealt with heavier topics (like Beckett missing her mother when trying on the (monstrosity of a) wedding dress) and it felt like things weren't properly explored anymore and became somewhat of a routine. (The wedding preparations kind of felt like they were just running down a list but, as mentioned above, didn't include much relationship exploration/character development.

Ah now I see what you’re saying, I do gotta admit though, while I don’t really find these things significant compared to the ones in S5 cause you’re right I fondly remember those things in S5 really meant something I think Beckett telling Castle about her mom was really heartfelt(I’ll be it, it was also hung in with the dress talk so maybe if this was isolated it wouldn’t be a problem). However I see what you mean but tbh I blame the wedding preparations on the writers not the actors and actually now that you bring it up even though it’s meaningless I do give props to the actors for trying to be enthusiastic about it and be emotionally connected with it. I think clearly the writers thought it had some depth to their relationship but to many viewers’ eyes including me it doesn’t really add anything to their relationship.

And I do agree with you 100% on the over reliance of kisses I think even though S5 probably didn’t have as much kisses as S6 I thought their S5 moments were more sweet and romantic compared to S6. Take in Murder He Wrote(personally one of my favourite episodes of the series) we see Beckett and Castle going on vacation. I don’t know what it was but from my gut Castle and Beckett felt like a genuine couple the moment Beckett was feeling extremely shy and unsure of herself but Castle reassures that she doesn’t need to feel insecure and he holds her hand to reassure everything is fine and Beckett responds with a bit of a smile(well not really but if you watch the scene I’m referring to they show true love off their looks). Even though there were some interrupted/lack of kisses in the Murder He Wrote episode outside of the kiss at the end scene(and the one with Beckett kissing him in bed with Castle distracted on the case tbh I don’t count this one), I thought most of their non-kissing moments really depicted their love/chemistry off each other and was more reflective of how Caskett was adjusting into their relationship.

But yeah imo if I were to rank the sweet and romantic moments of Caskett from S5-7, I’d say S5 > S7 > S6. Honestly S7 had some moments where I thought the writers did a better job of not making Caskett look scripted(kinda like the wedding prep scenes and I guess that scrabble scene which many found odd and stilted), like the kiss in I, Witness felt natural between the 2(although I probably think this was a 100% stana improv but ymmv) and the loving looks they throw in the end of Resurrection with Beckett cuddling Castle at the end now that really showed love without looking awkward. Also thought episodes Time of Our Lives and Once Upon a Time in the West really solidified their love and I was impressed by Nathan and Stana’s acting there.

I think(btw jmo) why some people think S6 the 2 leads started having friction was when there was a 10 episode stretch where Caskett didn’t kiss on the lips from Time Will Tell(Episode 5)until Dressed to Kill(Episode 14). Many fans on other sites commented(I btw was curious and saw comments on TvFanatic and Tvline so I’m basing my assumptions off this) something is wrong and weird here because Caskett is not being accurately portrayed as a loving couple. This didn’t bother me tbh because I don’t have the Caskett romance be the end all be all in this show. But in a way I can see what you’re thinking here as once Caskett start kissing in Dressed to Kill, many of the kisses didn’t come off as natural(outside of Smells Like Teen Spirit and a deleted scene from Veritas where Beckett puts the ring away then Castle comes in and gives Beckett a kiss after a brief convo) like in The Way of the Ninja where Beckett tries to convince Castle they weren’t boring and the kisses were yeah lacklustre from what people saw(heh guess Caskett really felt boring to fans after all). Then I think here people saw the Caskett kisses were more forced and awkward than yk natural and sweet so likely they thought the 2 leads had some BTS problem going on. Honestly imo, Marlowe just doesn’t want Caskett to be hot/sexy(which I’m ok with cause honestly if I wanted hot/sexy couples I’d watch something else) which I think fans prefer so when Caskett is more tame then fans attribute a BTS problem between the leads. I think it also didn’t help the quality of writing really started to decline from S6 and onwards on so fans naturally tried to hope the Caskett romance would deliver to save the episode from being bad.

But yeah I think overall the romance wasn’t meant to be mature/adult like based on what the writers do serve up but rather PG level so in a way it makes fans angry that way so they try to find a reason why Caskett scenes aren’t them making out without their clothes all the time or the passionate kisses and they attribute it to the 2 leads not getting along. Hence it feels the kisses/romantic scenes are more scripted than anything and not done like a loved up couple so it’s understandable why perhaps people gravitate towards the actors hatred of each other.

I think this is very true in S8 on what you said above especially where the writers tried to appease the fans by giving Caskett kisses at the start/end of episodes but really not addressing the big elephant of the room which is that Caskett is broken up and their marriage is nearing divorce so they need to discuss their issues and not kiss to fix everything. If I’m getting that correctly it’s probably that the Caskett scenes feel like more of a fan pleaser than perhaps something more natural that a married/loving couple would do. I think your issues of relationship development make sense as in they don’t really write Caskett in other ways other than just kissing and boom that’s it(or the annoying sex talk in S8 which really turned me off because it just was to cover up the terrible plots of writing and excuse fans of not writing Caskett as a happily married couple) no loving looks like before or the sexual tension/banter displayed in the earlier seasons.

Or even just normal couples talking like moving Beckett’s stuff to Castle’s loft, previous Castle marriage with Meredith which they should’ve discussed in Significant Others(missed opportunity but whatever), perhaps integrating Beckett with Castle’s family with some conversations with Alexis and Martha(tbf it doesn’t bother me too much but I could see what you mean as in Caskett wasn’t a natural couple anymore but more like a scripted couple lol). In ways the Caskett scenes just weren’t indicative of a loving couple anymore but rather scenes written on a script that actors can act without the need to use their chemistry(which imo theirs was really good compared to other shows) as opposed to scenes in earlier scenes where their chemistry would play along with the script which elevated the scene into something fans enjoyed as opposed to something fans are like meh/ok/awkward without the chemistry.

Anyways long post here but thanks for responding about why you think the 2 leads had friction, it’s not really easy for me to see these things so hearing an explanation was nice to know so now I kinda understand how fans were really thinking that the 2 leads had problems offscreen.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Goob

shapeshifter · August 18, 2022

1 hour ago, CheshireCat said:

I don't think that the friction itself was visible.…

Thanks for posting this.
I’m glad to know I’m not missing some on-screen antagonism between the lead actors.

Fans obsessed with the romance and sexual chemistry of Castle and Beckett seemed to often attribute the scripted squabbles between Castle and Beckett as necessary plot devices due to real life squabbles between Fillion and Katic.
If that was ever the case, I still can’t see it on screen.

However, I don’t think I’ve since seen the 2 together, so maybe there was friction between the actors. It’s just invisible to me.

tessaray · August 18, 2022

I learned of the bts friction rumors here, I think. To me it becomes glaring how little screen time they shared in later seasons, though I can't give you episode titles off the top of my head.

But most of my issues were with the writing and direction of the plots overall.

Bort · August 18, 2022

8 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

I also like almost all of the episodes related to Beckett's mother's murder. (So, Sucker Punch, Knockdown, Knockout, Rise, Always, After The Storm, Veritas). Not so much for the plot itself (I think they could have done a better job of thinking it through from beginning to end) but I love those episodes for the character development and the emotion they portray.

I was kind of slogging through the Beckett’s mom episodes at first in my rewatch but I ended up liking them once Bracken was finally revealed as the big bad perp behind the whole conspiracy. I liked the uneasy dance he and Beckett were doing in their little détente and my favorite culmination of it was when he hired goons to take her out and she decimated them.

Which brings me over to the episode when they finally finished off the 3XK arc and Kelly Nieman had captured Beckett and I was like, “Oh Kelly, you’re toast. Captured Cornered Beckett is a very dangerous Beckett, she’s gonna kill your ass.” Sure enough, when they bust in to rescue her, Beckett is standing over Nieman’s body in a pool of blood, holding a dripping scalpel.

shapeshifter · August 18, 2022

1 hour ago, kariyaki said:

when they bust in to rescue her, Beckett is standing over Nieman’s body

This👆 was the only part of that arc I floved. The rest I avoid or just have on while I'm doing other stuff. Like vacuuming, LOL.

shapeshifter · August 20, 2022

Season 6 episodes have been airing today.
Beckett and Castle are like Scully and Mulder but with more romance, comedy, and heart.

Goob · August 20, 2022

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Season 6 episodes have been airing today.
Beckett and Castle are like Scully and Mulder but with more romance, comedy, and heart.

Interesting what channel/network is it on? Never thought Castle would be good enough that its episodes are aired now where the show ended 6 years ago. Still kind of disappointed how the show ended, probably would've helped if they had all the main cast back for a final shortened S9 which would've ended Castle on a high note.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Goob

shapeshifter · August 20, 2022

3 hours ago, Goob said:

Interesting what channel/network is it on? Never thought Castle would be good enough that its episodes are aired now where the show ended 6 years ago. Still kind of disappointed how the show ended, probably would've helped if they had all the main cast back for a final shortened S9 which would've ended Castle on a high note.

It’s on Lifetime. Hah! I have access through my daughter’s account. It’s pretty much the only thing I watch on that station.

I think Fillion’s innocently naughty charm still draws viewers as a sort of soothing comfort food for the mind in these trying times. Likewise, the dependable formulas——especially of the stand alone scripts, and the reliable regular characters——add to the sweet (albeit a little saccharine) escape that I can easily tune away from if real life calls.

Edited August 20, 2022 by shapeshifter

CheshireCat · August 20, 2022

On 8/18/2022 at 5:12 AM, Goob said:

Gotta say, I 100% agree with this. Even though some on this forum prefer the lighthearted fluff all the time, I think these JB episodes are nice ways to challenge the characters and add more emotion and human flaws to the characters that may not be present in lighter episodes(although I think earlier seasons did a better job balancing each episode with some drama and lightheartedness).

This reminds me of another thing I liked about the characters and that made them and the show stand out from other procedurals: they had flaws and were generally more three-dimensional than most procedural characters are.

On 8/18/2022 at 5:12 AM, Goob said:

I think this also explains why I was extremely disappointed with Castle’s disappearance and the separation/Locksat arc. Compared to the JB arc where at times ok characters made some bad mistakes but I never doubted their intentions and understood where it came from, these 2 arcs were too plot driven in that the writers forced the characters to act OOC so the plot was dictated their way so I couldn’t quite sympathize with the characters.

I agree. I don't think they planned the JB arc from beginning to end but what they came up with as they went along had substance and I think what kind of a story they wanted to tell.

The Castle disappearance/Locksat arc felt like how I wrote as a teenager: I had an idea about something, wrote a first chapter and then I abandoned it because I had no clue where I wanted to go with it and what story I wanted to tell. But I was a teenager who just liked to come up with stories/write. They are professionals who get paid quite well and I expect better of them. Much better!

On 8/18/2022 at 5:12 AM, Goob said:

Now I couldn’t understand why the characters would act like this(not that I’m saying they have to act a certain way)

I think they do have to, to a degree at least.

All of us act or react in certain ways and the way we act/react has to do with upbringing, mood, circumstances etc. But we don't act randomly, we act according to our character. There may be instances when we act out of character but, unless we have a mental health issue, there's a reason for it.

I believe it's the same for characters in books or TV shows. Characters act and react according to the character they were given and that was developed. That's why I think characters either have to act/react a certain way or the viewer should be given an explanation for why they acted/reacted out of character.

With regards to the examples you gave, I agree that how Epso acted didn't make sense. Espo trusted Castle far sooner than Beckett but that aside, Castle had proven himself for 6 years. Espo had seen Castle save Beckett's life on several occasions, he'd seen him stick with her in plenty of dangerous situations, Espo was the one who told Beckett that Castle had stayed with them for months in Rise, he thought Beckett was in the wrong for not contacting Castle while she recovered, he'd seen Castle stay with them while a dirty bomb was on the loose, he's seen Castle push Beckett out of harms ways of a bullet that Castle could have been hit with had he acted earlier, he's seen Castle stay with Beckett while she stood on a bomb.
Same goes for Beckett. She actually has an even more intimate knowledge of how much Castle cares about her. And yet, they both chose not to trust him in that moment and we were never told why.

Compare that to the 3XK episode from S5 when Castle is framed. I hated that Beckett didn't believe Castle didn't do it right away but the way it was written made sense. And despite the truly overwhelming evidence, she decides to trust him. She decides to believe that he did not cheat and she decides to believe that he did not kill. But almost two years later, she believes he'd stage an abduction just to get out of his wedding to her?

Likewise, Locksat, that was a Beckett character regress that we never got an answer for. She would have acted like that in S3. Maybe S4. But S8? That never made sense and did not fit with what we had witnessed over the course of the previous seasons.

On 8/18/2022 at 6:15 AM, Goob said:

However I see what you mean but tbh I blame the wedding preparations on the writers not the actors and actually now that you bring it up even though it’s meaningless I do give props to the actors for trying to be enthusiastic about it and be emotionally connected with it. I think clearly the writers thought it had some depth to their relationship but to many viewers’ eyes including me it doesn’t really add anything to their relationship.

We will never know how the show would have gone had there not been friction between the leads but I think many writers have difficulties keeping the magic alive once they get the couple together. So, it's entirely possible that S6 would have looked the same, friction or not.

I do believe there are a lot of funny moments in S6 - one of my favorite moments is their reaction to the flower arrangements Martha has picked out.
I just would have liked a little bit more warmth and touches and gestures.

On 8/18/2022 at 6:15 AM, Goob said:

I think(btw jmo) why some people think S6 the 2 leads started having friction was when there was a 10 episode stretch where Caskett didn’t kiss on the lips from Time Will Tell(Episode 5)until Dressed to Kill(Episode 14). Many fans on other sites commented(I btw was curious and saw comments on TvFanatic and Tvline so I’m basing my assumptions off this) something is wrong and weird here because Caskett is not being accurately portrayed as a loving couple. This didn’t bother me tbh because I don’t have the Caskett romance be the end all be all in this show.

I'm with you on that, I don't think romance is about kissing but also about gestures and looks that a couple shares and wordless communication. And if you can do it before a couple gets together, there's no reason to not do it afterwards.

Another thing that has nothing to do with the friction is that I think Castle did humor very well. It was often situational humor that came from Castle's nature/character/goofiness. But despite it all, I think it was a mature humor, it was still classy. It made me roll my eyes at Castle and at the same time, smile, because it was part of his charm.
In S8 especially, I found the humor to be more in the face (I think it's called slapstick humor). That's absolutely not my kind of humor. More often than not, it makes me roll my eyes and not smile, because I don't find it charming but immature. It's just another thing that killed the show for me.

On 8/18/2022 at 8:38 AM, tessaray said:

I learned of the bts friction rumors here, I think.

I learned from it online as well. I even read comments that claimed that they were using stand-ins to film the scenes they had together but I truly doubt that. That sounds like it would have been a union/contractual nightmare.

On 8/18/2022 at 8:38 AM, tessaray said:

To me it becomes glaring how little screen time they shared in later seasons, though I can't give you episode titles off the top of my head.

But most of my issues were with the writing and direction of the plots overall.

It's possible though that either or both requested to not share as many scenes with the other or that the writers/showrunners decided to give them fewer shared scenes to avoid complications as much as possible. Now, neither option would an excuse for the disaster that were the disappearance and Locksat/separation arc but either option would have influenced the overall writing and likely the directing as well.

On 8/18/2022 at 10:08 AM, kariyaki said:

Which brings me over to the episode when they finally finished off the 3XK arc and Kelly Nieman had captured Beckett and I was like, “Oh Kelly, you’re toast. Captured Cornered Beckett is a very dangerous Beckett, she’s gonna kill your ass.” Sure enough, when they bust in to rescue her, Beckett is standing over Nieman’s body in a pool of blood, holding a dripping scalpel.

I didn't mind the 3XK arc until S5. I actually don't remember what happened with it after the episode in which Castle was framed but what I remember is that this was a classic example of the procedural-favorite: let's resurrect a popular villain. And I hated when they do that.

Goob · August 20, 2022

49 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

Another thing that has nothing to do with the friction is that I think Castle did humor very well. It was often situational humor that came from Castle's nature/character/goofiness. But despite it all, I think it was a mature humor, it was still classy. It made me roll my eyes at Castle and at the same time, smile, because it was part of his charm.

This, I cannot emphasize how much I loved the mature humour on this show(from S1 to I guess S5). In earlier seasons, it felt like the characters had a natural vibe going with their conversations using the humour so it really made Caskett’s scenes and to some extent Ryan and Esposito’s scenes more energetic and lively. The humour imo added more spark to Caskett as Fillion and Katic had a knack of playing that witty humour off each other and it was entertaining and fun to watch. I agree with you in later seasons I didn’t love the humour they chose which was more slapstick hence why most comedic moments I loved on this show are mostly from earlier seasons compared to later seasons(also the humour gave me some memorable quotes in earlier seasons). Still have no idea why the writers abandoned the witty humour(probably due to laziness and exhaustion imo)because once they switched to slapstick the characters kinda lost substance when having conversations and the characters looked more idiotic than anything.

Ngl watching some of the slapstick humour in later seasons was really cringeworthy at times and immature like you said like when Ryan shoots Espo in the arse(that totally made no sense) and the argument preceding that was embarrassing, Castle stumbling in the Webmerical(thought also writers developed a crutch of having Castle being laughed at too much), and Castle kissing Gates(I mean cmon in front of Beckett). Also ngl Castle was too immature in S7 at times with the humour he used like when he joked to Beckett when he woke up from the hospital in the S7 premiere, the insensitive comment he made about the Old Haunt after Espo reunited with the team in the 12th, and his sarcastic remarks of Beckett’s loft in Last Action Hero. This didn’t resemble the witty humour Castle possessed in earlier seasons and I just didn’t quite understand why S7 Castle would make these kinda jokes in serious moments where I felt the writers were trying to force the comedy rather than letting it flow naturally.

Goob · August 20, 2022

As far as worst episodes of the series wondering what your guys are. Mine are:

Suicide Squeeze(case was strangely flat compared to other S2 cases which were pretty strong)

Almost Famous(again same reasons for Suicide Squeeze)

Pretty Dead(forgettable filler case that didn’t have memorable moments)

Heartbreak Hotel(very boring episode imo and Castle with the boys never really works on this show without Beckett)

Linchpin/Pandora(While some may have liked the 2-parter, I didn’t like the OTT plot of how one small event would trigger WW3 also thought Castle having another muse didn’t work for me, the car sequence was disappointing never got to see how Castle and Beckett managed to escape the car)

The Limey(awkward interaction between Castle and Beckett also Castle with Jacinda just sucked the life out of the episode, Caskett was at its low point here)

Swan Song(documentary-like camera was disorienting to watch throughout got huge headaches from this one)

Death Gone Crazy(Boring boring case, Espo flirting with some bodyguard was weird, and Caskett was rather flat)

Get a Clue(While the case was ok, the Pi debacle really tainted this episode and Alexis slamming the front door on his apologetic father Castle at the end yeah definitely made Alexis too bratty there)

Murder is Forever(forgettable case(like some S6 cases are) and wasn’t interested in the Linus in the bedroom conversations Caskett was talking about)

Law and Boarder(nothing substantial happened here, episode itself flat and Caskett playing Scrabble and strip poker was flatter than I anticipated)

For Better or Worse(terrible writing in this one, 15 year Rogan marriage that Beckett doesn’t know(also how does that go unnoticed by the NYPD), ruining the one and done she was before, all the cliche obstacles for Caskett to get a wedding, and to top it off a car crash delaying the wedding and kickstarting Castle’s disappearance sigh, shame cause there were great moments in this episode thanks to the actors but the juvenile storytelling that insulted my intelligence was too much)

Driven(worst season premiere, Espo (hated when he jumped the gun and thought he orchestrated his disappearance right away) and Beckett doubting Castle was hard to watch given they knew Castle for 6 years(one of many OOC things in that episode), episode was not emotionally connecting(Martha and Alexis were disappointing thought they’d show more emotion knowing Castle was missing) too uneven and unsettling, Beckett snapping the suspect’s fingers was overkill especially when he requested a lawyer, Castle’s behaviour was strange as he was nonchalant about his own disappearance, too much whiplash from the team trying to investigate Castle’s disappearance to Castle drinking champagne with the family)

Kill Switch(incredibly flat episode with hostages compared to Cops and Robbers, nothing substantial other than just exposition in the precinct, couldn’t quite feel the danger of the passengers in the subway(Marisa and Espo though had good chemistry in this episode), case involving the person using flu virus didn’t really work as a twist, reunion at the end wasn’t as good as I thought and Castle’s joke at the end really killed the mood)

Bad Santa(mobsters and Christmas didn’t go well together I was hoping for something lighter and a little more joyful, Espo and Lanie subplot was contrived shame they wasted Lanie’s parents for nothing other than fake marriage, Castle looking at the strippers was distracting, case was typical Romeo Juliet crap I didn’t care for, sad at the end Castle was kicked out of the precinct)

Hong Kong Hustle(Beckett’s insecurity was too OTT here, Hong Kong cop was written poorly here as a more perfect Beckett(thought Jordan Shaw would’ve worked better in this episode to help with the plot of Beckett’s next career move), case was rather weak didn’t really buy into the sobbing of the murderer(felt OTT))

Sleeper(imo one of the worst episodes on Castle, whole explanation of disappearance added more questions than answers also didn’t add up with the events from the first 2 S7 episodes, Al-Qaeda, Thailand, Chuck Norris(LOL), and one of Castle’s friends being associated with CIA(couldn’t writers come up with better ideas with Castle’s friends who influenced him????), head scratching that Castle could somehow recall his events in Thailand off looking at someone’s face lol, Espo doubting Castle again was on par with his S7 attitude I didn’t love, Beckett’s “you were saving the world!” line sigh why must writers intend on trying to make everything about saving the world, pathetic that writers thought this would dive into Castle’s background more in S7, should’ve perhaps included more episodes of why he became a writer like Hollander’s Woods or episodes involving murder mysteries that connected with his Storm books)

XX(so disappointing and frustrating because the S8 2-parter wasn’t bad(a little too much action for a lighthearted show like Castle but it worked ok I guess in this case) until the frickin ending with Beckett walking away from Castle for no reason, Vikram for some reason was irritating I couldn’t stand him with Beckett, Rita being a sound board for what Beckett needs to do sigh wish Beckett understood what she meant but she instead does the opposite, shame the writers really had Beckett go through a Locksat conspiracy on her first days of captaincy while separating from her husband not even telling him what’s going on)

The Nose(terrible use of humor in this one from Castle farting, Ryan shooting Espo in the arse with Ryan telling Espo to shoot him back in the arse(I mean really this is embarassing for NYPD detectives to act this OOC), Assposito Jesus are we really that low on nicknames??, Castle relying on the nose lady to know how hot she is yeah he’s an idiot, end scene sigh it made me sad and not in a good way that Beckett is nuking her marriage for some Locksat conspiracy while sobbing and smelling Castle’s shirt)

Tone Death(the fake cheating from Caskett taints their marriage, sucks that Ryan and Espo are devastated that Caskett ain’t together, the Beckett slap on Castle just NO!(can the writers show some damn respect for Captain Beckett and stop having her acting OOC and unprofessionally))

The GDS(also a contender for worst Castle episode, no mention of Beckett of all(even though S8 Beckett was irritating to watch) just disrespectful to not even explain when Beckett was, Castle PI going to LA with just Hayley and Alexis feels wrong(didn’t help Stana wasn’t available for filming at that time), case I didn’t care for and GDS was too cheesy of a name, Hayley and Frost kissing ew, Hayley all of a sudden connecting with Alexis and Castle doesn’t make sense(why are the writers forcing Hayley to connect well with Castle’s family anyway) given she was an MI6 Agent, terrible tie up to disappearance from S7(writers should’ve left this alone), connecting Castle to Locksat to protect Beckett just added to the convoluted mess)

Backstabber(Fitting episode title as it backstabbed fans who loved the show, Hayley-centric episode sums up what was wrong with S8 and what they would’ve done to Beckett if Castle renewed(thank god it was cancelled), Beckett willingly letting Hayley into the investigation despite a warrant for Hayley’s arrest on the case was a big WTF moment(shame cause it was one of many moments that degraded Beckett as a captain in S8 she was unprofessional and lousy at times and didn’t command well in the precinct like Gates and Montgomery), fitting that Castle, Alexis, and Hayley have drinks in the PI office with the boys and Beckett going out for drinks separately would represent what fans missed about Castle in S8(having Beckett, Castle, Ryan, Espo together didn’t happen too much), Beckett blaming Castle for a dream seriously writers??? there was no need for that)

Crossfire(terrible end and payoff to fans watching the show for 8 years, such a shame the series finale was an action thriller and not the lighthearted drama it once was in the pilot, evil music played at the start was hard to listen, Caskett was separated too much in a series finale knowing Castle was about a writer and muse solving crimes, ridiculous shoot out(seriously when did the show even have this much gunfire) that somehow Beckett and Castle managed to survive, Caskett moments sadly were flat(the hug though was ok) that didn’t pack the emotional punch and love that previous moments did, Beckett not telling Ryan and Espo about Locksat with Vikram having to tell Ryan and Espo about it sums up Beckett’s increasing liar behaviour in S8 that sadly damaged her character, the GDS guy Mason Wood being Locksat yeah sorry but that was a disappointing reveal towards the end that felt anticlimactic and wasn’t satisfying for this convoluted S8 mess, reunion scene at the precinct was ok but Beckett strangely being separated from Castle’s family was jarring, Caleb shooting Beckett and Castle at the loft was sooooo unnecessary(and seriously why did the show runners not take this shooting scene out for the series finale knowing the show could’ve be cancelled) that inflicted additional damage to an already terrible episode, tacked on ending with Caskett and 3 kids 7 years later doesn’t work as Caskett had to have miraculously been healed, sad the only positives in this was Castle revealing names from being out on truth serum which packed an emotional punch)

Anyways, I do have others I hated from S8 especially but it would probably be too much to add on. Shame in later seasons soap opera storylines were used and the foundations of a lighthearted drama with a writer and a muse was long gone in S8.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Goob

andromeda331 · August 25, 2022

Hell Hath No Fury-It was mostly just boring.'
Sucker Punch- It was okay first time around but I really don't like episodes about Beckett's mother's murder. Also Knockdown, Always, Recoil, In the Belly of the Beast and Veritas for the
same reasons

Suicide Squeeze-Just didn't like it.
Almost Famous-Mostly just boring
Dead Pool-Mostly boring
Pandora and Linchpin-It was really mostly boring for a two parter season 2 & 3 were so much better and more exciting. I didn't like that Castle had a previous Beckett like muse or that she sudden was evil.

The Limey-I hated how Castle behaved and how upset Beckett was in the beginning while talking with Lainie about how weird Castle had been lately. Beckett, he told you he loved you and you've done
nothing. I do like Lainie pointing out that while she and Esposito didn't work out but at least they gave it a shot. Which was a good point. In the end Beckett does nothing, again.

Headhunters-I hated Slaughter he was horrible cop who should be thrown off the force.

Cloudy with a Chance of Murder-Beckett wanting Castle to be single and being upset about it. Castle going on a date. The whole thing was stupid and unnecessary.

Probable Cause-I hate how quickly they believed Castle murdered the woman. That never should have happened. It was clearly a setup.

After Hours-Beckett and Castle fighting over their parents all night was dumb and so was them somehow being stuck in an area with no way to get help.

Significant Others-I didn't like Beckett being upset that Meredith was there. Meredith does nothing for her daughter so it was nice for her to for once be there for her. I didn't like the talk Meredith had
with her about Castle. It made no sense.

Death Gone Crazy-I didn't care about the crime or victim.
The Sqaub and the Quail-I hated Castle's jealous over Vaugh and Beckett not sure if their relationship was serious or not. That came out no where. I wish Vaugh had been interested in Lainie instead.

Watershed- I didn't like Beckett not telling Castle about the job interview or the continuing of them act like their not sure if their relationship was serious or not. It came out of no where and had only
been dating for a season they didn't have to be at the get married stage if they didn't want too.

Beckett's DC arc it was mostly boring and of course Pi. I really, really hate him. He's free loading at Castle's house, no sign of a job, doesn't pick up his crap and walks into Castle and Beckett while they
were in the bedroom. Who does that? I hated Alexis for it too.

Deep Cover-I really hate Castle's father in this episode. He's an asshole to Castle, won't answer of his questions and uses him to get information on the case.

Limelight-I really just hate Alexis going off about Pi and her problems to Mandy who actually has real problems.

The Time of Our Lives- I didn't really like alternative realty or that Beckett and Castle got married without Lainie, Ryan and Esposito. They had time to dig up Beckett's father. They could have called their friends and had them there too.

Last Action Hero-Just didn't like it.
Bad Santa-I didn't like the mob case Castle being fired at the end.

Hong Kong-I didn't like Beckett being so insecure around Zhang or that it turned out Zhang had a crappy life. It felt like they did that so Beckett could feel better about herself.

XY, XX, PhDead and everything dealing with Locksat and Beckett suddenly pulling away from Castle to "protect him" while also making him and their friends think it was all his fault that she left. That was horrible of her and a complete waste. It didn't need to happen.
Esposito and Ryan suddenly fighting. Castle really believing in Genies.
Alexis suddenly being so good at everything as a PI. Really most of the sesaon was just dumb.

CheshireCat · August 25, 2022

14 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Headhunters-I hated Slaughter he was horrible cop who should be thrown off the force.

Gosh, I absolutely disliked the Slaughter character. He is not my kind of character, and this was not my kind of "show". I thought it lacked the usual Castle finesse and was crude, I guess. (Not sure what the right word would be).

14 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

The Sqaub and the Quail-I hated Castle's jealous over Vaugh and Beckett not sure if their relationship was serious or not. That came out no where. I wish Vaugh had been interested in Lainie instead.

I didn't like that Castle was jealous but I got where he was coming from. Sure, he wasn't entirely innocent in the matter but his lack of attention doesn't give Beckett the right to just kiss another guy. It was ridiculous of Beckett to question the seriousness of the relationship after how Castle had pursued her and I don't think she was justified in getting upset that Castle was jealous. She was the one kissing another guy.

14 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Watershed- I didn't like Beckett not telling Castle about the job interview or the continuing of them act like their not sure if their relationship was serious or not. It came out of no where and had only
been dating for a season they didn't have to be at the get married stage if they didn't want too.

I don't think it was more that they wondered where they'd go from where they were. Of course, they could just enjoy being with each other and wouldn't have to go anywhere, so it probably would have made more sense to have them wonder if they want more individually rather than wonder about the relationship itself.

Overall, I think Castle made it pretty clear how much he feels about Beckett in "Still". He refusing to leave while she was standing on that bomb should have answered any question she had and erased any doubt she might have had.

14 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Beckett's DC arc it was mostly boring

Yeah... I mostly like how they handled the relationship part, that there was the conflict of where is the relationship at and the difficulties of a long-distance relationship but that they resolved both in a non-typical way for procedurals. Normal procedurals would have split them up but I especially loved that Castle said he wasn't proposing to keep her in NY and that he could write from anywhere.

I also think that this was the arc that made S8 so wrong. I felt that this was when they kind of cemented their relationship status, that they were a team and that they'd not keep secrets and that no matter what, they'd find a solution together.

14 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

and of course Pi. I really, really hate him. He's free loading at Castle's house, no sign of a job, doesn't pick up his crap and walks into Castle and Beckett while they
were in the bedroom. Who does that? I hated Alexis for it too.

Alexis' attitude was a bit spoiled-brat.

I agree with you on Pi just wandering into the bedroom but also, I think after Castle and Beckett got together, they should have remodeled. I think that bedroom was not in a good location with regards to privacy and had way too many doors.

Bort · August 25, 2022

Pi looked pretty good without a shirt and Alexis was, what, 19? I give her a pass on that, she wasn’t thinking with her brain.

shapeshifter · August 25, 2022

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Pi. I really, really hate him. He's free loading at Castle's house, no sign of a job, doesn't pick up his crap and walks into Castle and Beckett while they
were in the bedroom. Who does that? I hated Alexis for it too.

Yes. That arc with Pi, The Annoying Boyfriend Of Your Adult Daughter, Who Came To Stay probably looked good on paper? Thank goodness there wasn't more of him on screen. I mean, at least he didn't decide to tag along on the cases.

1 hour ago, kariyaki said:

Pi looked pretty good without a shirt and Alexis was, what, 19? I give her a pass on that, she wasn’t thinking with her brain.

I must've not noticed shirtless Pi.
But, now that you bring up the subject of what attracted Alexis to Pi:
Pi was playful and adventurous in ways not too different from her beloved Dad.

Bort · August 25, 2022

11 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I must've not noticed shirtless Pi.
But, now that you bring up the subject of what attracted Alexis to Pi:
Pi was playful and adventurous in ways not too different from her beloved Dad.

It was the scene where he walked into Castle’s bedroom when Beckett was in there, Pi was just wearing a towel.

I was annoyed by the Pi storyline when it first aired but in the rewatch, it made total sense for Alexis to have that phase. She eventually came to her senses and realized that they had absolutely nothing in common and it was her first serious sexual relationship. Possibly her first sexual relationship at all, they never did a Lost Her Virginity plot, so we don’t really know.

andromeda331 · September 26, 2022

On 8/25/2022 at 4:54 AM, CheshireCat said:

Yeah... I mostly like how they handled the relationship part, that there was the conflict of where is the relationship at and the difficulties of a long-distance relationship but that they resolved both in a non-typical way for procedurals. Normal procedurals would have split them up but I especially loved that Castle said he wasn't proposing to keep her in NY and that he could write from anywhere.

I also think that this was the arc that made S8 so wrong. I felt that this was when they kind of cemented their relationship status, that they were a team and that they'd not keep secrets and that no matter what, they'd find a solution together.

I liked that part. Castle willing to move to DC for her and he was right. He could write for anywhere and has. I liked Beckett's co-workers especially Lisa Edelstein. I just wish it had been a better arc. Same with season 8 by that pointed they had been through too much and defeated too many bad guys together for that. Nothing would have separated them by that.

andromeda331 · October 18, 2022

Watching One Man's Treasure why exactly did Sam propose to Sara? Come to think of it why did he date her at all? Couldn't he have figured out what was going on with the batteries without dating someone else? Especially since apparently he also knew she was a spy.

WendyCR72 · December 12, 2022

Beginning tomorrow, Monday, 12/12, it seems Lifetime will resume little mini marathons of the show in between its Christmas fare, airing from 8:00 a.m. until 2:00 p.m. ET, Monday through Friday.

Starts again with the first episode and has parts of the seasons airing, not the whole thing. Why, I don't know.

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