S02.E06: The Sounds of Thunder

[Kromm]

On 2/22/2019 at 9:09 AM, xaxat said:

I thought the title of this episode was interesting because you have to wonder if it's a reference to Clarke's Bradbury's  short story A Sound of Thunder.

It's a nice thought, but the main message of that story is that time is very sensitive.  That story is LITERALLY the genesis of the phrase "the Butterfly Effect", and I think that's infused enough in our culture that we all know what that means.

Star Trek, in contrast, has typically shown time as fairly robust. We see a ridiculous amount of survival of manipulation. True, we know at least one case where it results in a total alternate universe, but that just helps prove that it takes a lot for that to happen, since at least in the way the show has portrayed time travel, we get lots of dire warnings, but not any evidence of infinite amounts of timeline and universe splitting.

[Mom x 3]

On 2/23/2019 at 3:35 AM, MissLucas said:

The problem is not so much that they were twisting and bending things to get around the GOO - that is not unusual. The real problem is that any realistic consequences of their interference were swept away by a giant handwave.

And there are ethical aspects as well - nobody bothered to ask the Kelpians what they wanted, their whole belief system was destroyed and with it their social structure;* nor was there any concern about triggering a physiological development in age groups where it normally does not occur. And zero thought was given to the fact that nobody knows what exactly is going to happen - everybody just believed Saru's word that his race has 'evolved' despite some unnerving changes in his own behavior to the contrary.

The Discovery left Kaminar without any of these issues resolved (or at least addressed) or even given lip-service to their existence by asking the Federation to send help or assistance.

*There are plenty of examples in recent history of well-meaning interference that was not welcome even if it saved lives.

I don't know.  I think the writers have been pretty good with explaining things so far, they just aren't doing it in the same episode.  I wouldn't be surprised if there is Civil War on Saru's planet that wipes out the entire population - hence no more Kelpians seen in Star Trek.  

On 2/23/2019 at 7:24 PM, SourK said:

• Sounds like Spock, because why else is Spock in this season?
• Sounds like Michael, because everything is always Michael.
• Sounds like Janeway, because Janeway's favourite thing is fucking up the timeline.

Janeway would be hilarious, but I'm wondering if it's not Picard.  He's supposedly getting a spinoff, so his show could be about him altering moments of time.  What the hell else could a show about a retired Picard be about?  

[John Potts]

OK, I'm glad Dr Culber reacted to coming back from the dead as something momentous. I get it happens (or at least, seems to happen) to every Starfleet officer eventually, but it has to be a weird experience. And saying "With a case group of one, it's hard to draw conclusions" is good scientific practice.

Ugh. I hate the "You have to let me do this, it's personal!" line of argument. That's exactly why you shouldn't be the one to go on the mission. But of course he does and he only nearly caused a global war. But apparently both sides got their Kumbayayas out and won't kill each other, so yay? And wasn't this a repeat of the ST-TNG episode Transfigurations (not an episode I would chose to redo)?

Wow, Kelpians age really well. After 18 years, neither Saru nor Sarana look a day older...

I guess the Universal Translator knew to give the Ba'ul a sinister voice.

Android Lady (Miriam?) got lines! Who knows, maybe in time the rest of the Bridge crew might even get personalities...
 

On 2/22/2019 at 12:55 PM, MissLucas said:

I felt really frustrated with the show since the narrative was blatantly manipulative. We never get to have a good look at the Ba'ul or their culture - they are literally kept in the dark, their history of near extinction by the Kelpians only narrated to us by proxy. They look like evil mutants left behind an oil-spill to maximize the juxtaposition with the flower-loving Kelpians.

Yes, having stated right at the start that it's inadvisable to generalise from a sample set of one, Saru did exactly that by saying he wouldn't start a war, so his people wouldn't either. Even if he was generally right, there should be localised incident of violence (look at how Saru reacts to Pike now compared to before). Now you could argue that it was still the right thing to do but there will be a price to pay. Hell, maybe the Kelpians will turn genocidal and it's Saru that's the odd one out. This is exactly why the Prime Directive exists!

On 2/25/2019 at 5:30 PM, CarpeFelis said:

I was hoping Saru would stay behind on Kaminar for a while. He’s becoming kind of obnoxious.

Since he's effectively going through puberty, that's hardly surprising...

[Idiotboy]

The Red Angel? Spock. Why? Because: It's Always About Spock. Compared to STD, he was a minor character in TOS.

[Tachi Rocinante]

So the Ba'ul are what happens when Space Samara Morgan goes into The Abyss.  Got it.

[Paloma]

On 2/23/2019 at 11:32 AM, juniorasparagus said:

On 2/22/2019 at 9:44 AM, Lazlo said:

Oh and this is pure speculation but at this point I'd be astonished if the Red Angel turns out to be anyone other than a time travelling Michael.

Either that or Spock

I don't know if it's Michael, but I don't think it could be Spock because it seemed to clearly have a woman's shape. (Sorry if someone already mentioned this--I haven't read all of the comments.)

Also, I like the suggestion that it is Tilly, as I saw when I read the rest of the comments. 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Paloma
new idea based on more comments