S02.E06: The Sounds of Thunder

[Bort]

Quote

When a new signal appears over Saru’s home planet, Burnham, Saru and the crew embark on a perilous mission that puts Saru in danger and raises questions about the Red Angel’s intentions. Hugh struggles to come to terms with his new reality.

Airdate: Thursday, February 21, 2019

[starri]

Man, Doug Jones is just amazing.

[Frozendiva]

I finally got a full episode. Gave the DVR 90 minutes.

[thuganomics85]

Interesting backstory about the Kelpian's, I guess.  They had originally been the dominate/predator species, but the Ba'ul ended creating advanced technology, and were able to defeat them.  And the whole ritual thing (whatever it was called) was to keep them in line, so they won't rise up again.  But now that Saru and Discovery have helped all of Kelpians survive it, I guess we'll see if that changes anything.  While I don't think they'll all revert to being extremely violent, I do see it causes some problems.

Man, I get that he's pretty easy-going for a Captain, but Pike's pretty much let almost all of his crew members go off at him at one point or another.  Granted, there were some good reasons for it at times (Tilly was infected by the spore, Saru is adjusting to these new changes), but he might want to avoid having that reputation.

Not surprised Culber is struggling being back on Discovery, but I'm still surprised the show hasn't had him cross paths with Tyler at least once.  You would think the whole "Sorry I snapped you neck back when I was a Klingon in a human body, Hugh!" thing would come up at some point.

So, the Red Angel is actually a person (human or alien) that seems to have some kind of advanced technology.  Time traveler?  If so, I wouldn't be surprised if it was one of the Discovery members from the future.

[paulvdb]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, the Red Angel is actually a person (human or alien) that seems to have some kind of advanced technology.

Not entirely surprising considering that in a previous episode they parafrased Arthur C. Clarke's Third Law to "any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial technology is indistinguishable from God."

[MissLucas]

uh... I guess it's not a good sign when I'm siding with Section 31 - since they are at least honest about their dubious moral standards.

This was the first time I felt really frustrated with the show since the narrative was blatantly manipulative. We never get to have a good look at the Ba'ul or their culture - they are literally kept in the dark, their history of near extinction by the Kelpians only narrated to us by proxy. They look like evil mutants left behind an oil-spill to maximize the juxtaposition with the flower-loving Kelpians. Of course it's handled that way so that we can applause the Discovery walking all over General Order One and have its cake and eat it. 

I can only wish we would get to see some fall-out in the future: on a meta-level on Kaminar where the Ba'ul and Kelpians are (to the surprise of exactly no-one) unable to find a peaceful way to co-exist despite Discovery's helpful advice of 'Kumbayaaa-all and tata' and on an individual level when an increasingly belligerent Saru is giving everybody a good lesson why the Ba'ul were freaking out on hearing he's past vahar'ai. But since this is not the season's A-plot I doubt any of this will come to pass.

Random notes:

• There's nothing wrong with a good old fashioned steady-cam - give it a try.
• Shazad Latif's job this season consists mainly of standing around looking concerned. At least Tyler landed a good zinger on Pike and seems to have inspired (along with Saru) Burnham to go home and have a good look for clues about Spock's whereabouts. Could we finally have him meet with Doctor Culber now?
• Speaking of Doctor Culber: that's a plot I'm much more invested right now than Saru's ganglia/evolving spikes. Kudos to Wilson Cruz for making the best of the short scene he was given. He truly looked like a man not feeling like himself.
• I would like to know more about Nebula Lt. Commander Airiam.
• I liked Michael's white sweat-shirt.

Edited February 22, 2019 by MissLucas

[xaxat]

On 2/22/2019 at 7:55 AM, MissLucas said:

This was the first time I felt really frustrated with the show since the narrative was blatantly manipulated. We never get to have a good look at the Ba'ul or their culture - they are literally kept in the dark, their history of near extinction by the Kelpians only narrated to us by proxy. They look like evil mutants left behind an oil-spill to maximize the juxtaposition with the flower-loving Kelpians. Of course it's handled that way so that we can applause the Discovery walking all over General Order One and have its cake and eat it. 

Agreed, the ethical concerns weren't handled very well. They went from "We can stretch the General Order One" to "Let's uplift all of the Kelpians" in about forty minutes. And the resolution of the conflict didn't make sense. If anything, a newly enlightened Kelpian society driven by the rage Saru exhibited versus a more technologically advanced Ba'ul who have been neutered would seem to increase the chance for war. The culling was bad, but the solution, outside of the handwavium of "Kelpians figure it out", felt like it might be worse.

Those opening voice overs are real energy sappers.

I really like the dress Serana was wearing when she was on the Discovery.

On 2/22/2019 at 7:55 AM, MissLucas said:

I would like to know more about Nebula Lt. Commander Airiam.

I hope they do a Short Trek on her (?).

On 2/22/2019 at 4:09 AM, paulvdb said:

Not entirely surprising considering that in a previous episode they parafrased Arthur C. Clarke's Third Law to "any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial technology is indistinguishable from God."

I thought the title of this episode was interesting because you have to wonder if it's a reference to Clarke's Bradbury's  short story A Sound of Thunder.

Spoiler

Is the Red Angel in individual who is trying to clean up the timeline because a guy stepped on a butterfly back in the  Cretaceous?

Nah, probably not.

Edited February 24, 2019 by xaxat

[Lazlo]

5 hours ago, paulvdb said:

Not entirely surprising considering that in a previous episode they parafrased Arthur C. Clarke's Third Law to "any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial technology is indistinguishable from God."

While that's true it also means the Red Angel actually doesn't reach that level  - its tech might be unbelievably advanced but is still recognisably technology. I think Clarke's Law better applies to beings like the Q who essentially are indistinguishable from deities.

I'm not sure how to feel about that to be honest. 

Oh and this is pure speculation but at this point I'd be astonished if the Red Angel turns out to be anyone other than a time travelling Michael.

[MissLucas]

Forgot to add that I was underwhelmed by the revelation that the Red Angel is humanoid. Everything we've seen so far with our non-Kelpian eyes indicated a humanoid (only the mechanized suit is new). And time-travel should have been on the table a long time ago. Maybe the Red Angel is a severely malfunctioning Tardis?

[Lazlo]

2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Forgot to add that I was underwhelmed by the revelation that the Red Angel is humanoid. Everything we've seen so far with our non-Kelpian eyes indicated a humanoid (only the mechanized suit is new). And time-travel should have been on the table a long time ago. Maybe the Red Angel is a severely malfunctioning Tardis?

I suppose it depends on whether we were meant to see the Red Angel as an ambiguously supernatural entity or not.

It is the same with Tilly's old friend/ghost who turned out to have a 'normal' techonobabble explanation.

[xaxat]

2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Maybe the Red Angel is a severely malfunctioning Tardis?

Part of me wants a batshit crazy space anime plot.

[ahisma]

Agree that Discovery and Pike went startlingly far along the interference spectrum. That was almost Kirk-like. 

I like that characterwise that Saru is getting to, literally, evolve. But I kind of miss his laid back posture when walking. Doug Jones still has the wavy arms, but is otherwise putting a more aggressive posture in his walk. I hope Saru balances out now that the mystery is solved.

[xodus1914]

I know a lot of folks here are a little twisted on Pike disobeying the Prime Directive, but I urge everyone to acknowledge that the entire scenario was on shaky grounds to start. Clearly the Prime was put into place to avoid the natural evolution of a species. However,  the Baal had warp and both races were intertwined, making it a gray area at best. But knowing that walking away would mean the continued, ritual genocide of a race supersedes the Prime....

[mrspidey]

3 hours ago, xodus1914 said:

Clearly the Prime was put into place to avoid the natural evolution of a species. However,  the Baal had warp and both races were intertwined, making it a gray area at best. 

No, the Prime Directive has some pretty clear statutes on that. Or at least, it will have by the 24th century...

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Prime_Directive

[MissLucas]

The problem is not so much that they were twisting and bending things to get around the GOO - that is not unusual. The real problem is that any realistic consequences of their interference were swept away by a giant handwave.

And there are ethical aspects as well - nobody bothered to ask the Kelpians what they wanted, their whole belief system was destroyed and with it their social structure;* nor was there any concern about triggering a physiological development in age groups where it normally does not occur. And zero thought was given to the fact that nobody knows what exactly is going to happen - everybody just believed Saru's word that his race has 'evolved' despite some unnerving changes in his own behavior to the contrary.

The Discovery left Kaminar without any of these issues resolved (or at least addressed) or even given lip-service to their existence by asking the Federation to send help or assistance.

*There are plenty of examples in recent history of well-meaning interference that was not welcome even if it saved lives.

[KimberStormer]

The thing about this show is that every week there is wayyyy too much going on for one episode yet they also always somehow find time for long boring stretches where nothing happens.  This episode could have been at least as long an arc as the entire Mirror Universe section of the first season, or at the very least a classic TNG two-parter like Redemption.  Instead it's like it's on fast-forward to get it all over with as quickly as possible.  But there's still weird timing stuff like a very prominent 60 second countdown followed by Saru and Michael having a long heart-to-heart before he finally beams away.

I wanted more Ba'ul.  They're gross, super-scary in a J-Horror kind of way, rude and aggressive, and somehow have gigantic super-powerful ships despite having achieved warp drive only 20(? could I possibly have heard that right?) years ago...and it would have been nice to get that classic Star Trekky moment when we realize they're not evil, just misguided.  We sort of got it, but not really; they were still genocidal until Red Angel Ex Machina came around to save the day with another eye-roll-inducing "religious parallel".  Are the Ba'ul the same race as that thing that killed Tasha Yar?  They are similarly puddly and distorted-voiced.

Anyway, I'll still take it.  As always going OTT works for me, from the outrageous Swoopy Cam for a scene of....people standing around talking, to the "evolution" process that took Saru and excruciatingly drawn-out amount of time just last episode now taking 5 seconds because TV.  Whenever I have time to think about stuff on this show (like during the opening credits) I start to get mad, but as long as they keep me from thinking by being absurd, I'm in.

20 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Kudos to Wilson Cruz for making the best of the short scene he was given. He truly looked like a man not feeling like himself.

Super-agree.  I thought this was the best acting he's done on the show by a long shot.  And Anthony Rapp did a great job of making Stamets both adorably devoted/proud of his husband and also slightly overly cheerful the way people are when they're trying to pretend something bad didn't happen/keep up the spirits of a loved one in the hospital.  That scene was really good, though God I am not looking forward to some big angsty "AM I REALLY ME? WHO AM I??" scene that is sure to come.

[juniorasparagus]

On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 9:44 AM, Lazlo said:

Oh and this is pure speculation but at this point I'd be astonished if the Red Angel turns out to be anyone other than a time travelling Michael.

Either that or Spock.

[FormerMod-a1]

I was wondering if the red angels were a future section 31, trying to "fix" things they let happen, or inadvertently caused, or for whatever reason.  I can see the Michael or Spock theories, too.  

[mrspidey]

No, no. The Red Angel is clearly Future Guy, back for more time shenanigans. 

[MissLucas]

I dunno - maybe the Angel is an Angel after all. Everybody was thrilled when BSG did it! 

[KimberStormer]

So what the heck is going to happen to Mirror Saru when he reaches that evolution point? How did he get to space? Do the Mirror Ba'ul sell them to the Empire to be slaves and food? Sounds risky if they turn into badass predators when they grow up. 

Also am I rght in remembering that Michael ate a Kelpian in the Mirror Universe? I know Georgiou did.

[MissLucas]

1 hour ago, KimberStormer said:

So what the heck is going to happen to Mirror Saru when he reaches that evolution point? How did he get to space? Do the Mirror Ba'ul sell them to the Empire to be slaves and food? Sounds risky if they turn into badass predators when they grow up. 

Good questions - if there was only someone around they could ask 😉

And yes, the Emperor fed Burnham some delicious ganglia. I wonder if she'll notice her favorite delicacy missing next time she meets Saru. I shall be impressed if it gets brought up.

[SourK]

I know that introducing herself as a human from Earth was probably the most expedient solution for a first contact situation but, as Michael pointed out at the end, her home is Vulcan.

8 hours ago, juniorasparagus said:

Either that or Spock.

Once we knew the Red Angel was a time traveler playing God, I thought:

• Sounds like Spock, because why else is Spock in this season?
• Sounds like Michael, because everything is always Michael.
• Sounds like Janeway, because Janeway's favourite thing is fucking up the timeline.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Was Culber that jacked before he "died"? He was looking mighty  fine even if he wasn't feeling so certain. But basically he has PTSD, right? That shouldn't be a big surprise to him though it may be hard for him to be objective about his own mental health.

[Milaxx]

On 2/22/2019 at 2:54 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Not surprised Culber is struggling being back on Discovery, but I'm still surprised the show hasn't had him cross paths with Tyler at least once.  You would think the whole "Sorry I snapped you neck back when I was a Klingon in a human body, Hugh!" thing would come up at some point.

My guess is he hadn’t had the opportunity . Pike had restricted the areas he can get to and I highly doubt Stamets would let him anywhere near him.

[Milaxx]

On 2/22/2019 at 9:09 AM, xaxat said:

I thought the title of this episode was interesting because you have to wonder if it's a reference to Clarke's short story A Sound of Thunder.

  Reveal spoiler

Is the Red Angel in individual who is trying to clean up the timeline because a guy stepped on a butterfly back in the  Cretaceous?

Nah, probably not.

I was actually thinking it would turn out to be something like this. Is Discovery supposed to also fit into the Pine as Kirk Trek? If so I think the Red Angel could easily turn out to be Future!Spock

Edited February 24, 2019 by Milaxx

[MSterling]

On 2/22/2019 at 8:09 AM, xaxat said:

I thought the title of this episode was interesting because you have to wonder if it's a reference to Clarke's short story A Sound of Thunder.

Do you mean Ray Bradbury, not Clarke?

[xaxat]

Oops. Thanks.

[Lebanna]

18 hours ago, mrspidey said:

No, no. The Red Angel is clearly Future Guy, back for more time shenanigans. 

As long as it isn’t that blasted Crewman Daniels again. Or Shower Guy.

I would love it if it were Archer, though. There’s something about the idea of him spending his retirement traveling through time, putting right things that once went wrong... I can’t think why, but it sounds like something he might go for.

Although, who knows - it could be Pike - I mean, we don’t know if ‘The Cage’ was the end of his story. The fact that it’s a mechanized suit could mean a kind of Iron Man structure that a paralysed brain could run. And since the Enterprise got there twice, that planet wasn’t exactly off the map. Because damn it, I always liked the guy, right from the Pilot, but I’m really enjoying seeing him in action again this season and that ending is getting sadder by the episode.

[ottoDbusdriver]

13 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Was Culber that jacked before he "died"? He was looking mighty  fine even if he wasn't feeling so certain. But basically he has PTSD, right? That shouldn't be a big surprise to him though it may be hard for him to be objective about his own mental health.

Per Culber's lack of scars, they did say that his body had been built anew.  Now with more muscles.

[Clanstarling]

On 2/21/2019 at 11:54 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Interesting backstory about the Kelpian's, I guess.  They had originally been the dominate/predator species, but the Ba'ul ended creating advanced technology, and were able to defeat them.  And the whole ritual thing (whatever it was called) was to keep them in line, so they won't rise up again.  But now that Saru and Discovery have helped all of Kelpians survive it, I guess we'll see if that changes anything.  While I don't think they'll all revert to being extremely violent, I do see it causes some problems.

Man, I get that he's pretty easy-going for a Captain, but Pike's pretty much let almost all of his crew members go off at him at one point or another.  Granted, there were some good reasons for it at times (Tilly was infected by the spore, Saru is adjusting to these new changes), but he might want to avoid having that reputation.

Not surprised Culber is struggling being back on Discovery, but I'm still surprised the show hasn't had him cross paths with Tyler at least once.  You would think the whole "Sorry I snapped you neck back when I was a Klingon in a human body, Hugh!" thing would come up at some point.

So, the Red Angel is actually a person (human or alien) that seems to have some kind of advanced technology.  Time traveler?  If so, I wouldn't be surprised if it was one of the Discovery members from the future.

Interesting thought - though it is rife for cross-over opportunity and appearance from any cast members of the other series.

21 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I dunno - maybe the Angel is an Angel after all. Everybody was thrilled when BSG did it! 

It's been a while, but my vague recollection is that few were happy when BSG did it. I was neutral, myself. I'm typically easy going, so neutral wasn't exactly a thumbs up for me.

Edited February 24, 2019 by Clanstarling

[MissLucas]

9 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

It's been a while, but my vague recollection is that few were happy when BSG did it. I was neutral, myself. I'm typically easy going, so neutral wasn't exactly a thumbs up for me.

oops, my fault - I thought the statement required no sarcasm indicator! 

In my book BSG belongs to the unholy trinity of shows who managed to screw their legacy with their ending (the other two are HIMYM and Lost). YMMV.

As for the Red Angel's identity: I'm not entirely happy with any of the (serious )suggestions that I came across so far although most of them sound sensible. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

If the Red Angel is a humanoid in a powerful advanced time-traveling suit, this just may be how the episodes get tied in to the Short Trek "Calypso" which possibly took place a 1000 years in the future.

Might be Craft in the Red Angel suit.

Edited February 24, 2019 by ottoDbusdriver

[Clanstarling]

55 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

oops, my fault - I thought the statement required no sarcasm indicator! 

In my book BSG belongs to the unholy trinity of shows who managed to screw their legacy with their ending (the other two are HIMYM and Lost). YMMV.

As for the Red Angel's identity: I'm not entirely happy with any of the (serious )suggestions that I came across so far although most of them sound sensible. 

My apologies - my brain was not in gear.

I'm still fairly easy - I was fine with Lost (as it was more or less what I guessed from the get-go, despite the show runners denials and we all like our theories validated), meh on BSG. I didn't finish HIMYM, but what I read about the ending, I think I would have agreed with you.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Might be Craft in the Red Angel suit.

Oh lawd, don't tease me! I suggested in the Short Treks thread that it'd be great if Craft was brought on as Burnham's new love interest and was informed that since the Calypso episode took place 1,000 years in the future, yeah no. But it seemed to me like a waste of the actor to have only used him for the Short Trek and I believe all the other Short Treks tied into the regular show in some way. His even pretending to be a time-traveling angel would work. Hope springs eternal.

Edited February 24, 2019 by Joimiaroxeu

[Lazlo]

On 2/23/2019 at 7:57 PM, MissLucas said:

I dunno - maybe the Angel is an Angel after all. Everybody was thrilled when BSG did it! 

I never understood the hostility to the mystical direction BSG went. Spirituality was literally baked into the DNA of the show from the original after all. Having the angels really be angels was very much in the spirit (so to speak) of the old BSG.

[Linderhill]

11 hours ago, Lebanna said:

I would love it if it were Archer, though. There’s something about the idea of him spending his retirement traveling through time, putting right things that once went wrong... I can’t think why, but it sounds like something he might go for.

It would be interesting if it was Archer since Scott Bakula played a time traveling scientist in Quantum Leap.

[paigow]

20 hours ago, Lebanna said:

I would love it if it were Archer, though.

It is Dr. Leonard McCoy.... An alternate version that never left the Guardian planet and keeps jumping through the portal...

[MissLucas]

I've seen Tilly being listed as a candidate too - which makes a surprising amount of sense to me. It should be someone closely tied to Michael but not too deeply inserted to canon. She serves the bill perfectly.

Edited February 25, 2019 by MissLucas

[Latverian Diplomat]

On 2/22/2019 at 10:40 AM, MissLucas said:

Forgot to add that I was underwhelmed by the revelation that the Red Angel is humanoid. Everything we've seen so far with our non-Kelpian eyes indicated a humanoid (only the mechanized suit is new). And time-travel should have been on the table a long time ago. Maybe the Red Angel is a severely malfunctioning Tardis?

I was going to say "how well known is the possibility of time travel in this pre-TOS show? Maybe they wouldn't think of it" then I remembered that Enterprise existed and was full of time travel shenanigans from the get go. Unless Archer never finished those mission reports T'Pol was always reminding him about. 🙂

22 hours ago, MissLucas said:

In my book BSG belongs to the unholy trinity of shows who managed to screw their legacy with their ending (the other two are HIMYM and Lost). YMMV.

Those other two are an interesting contrast, since Lost didn't have a plan, and HIMYM stuck to the original plan that the show had outgrown, IMHO. BSG was probably closer to the former, I suspect, but I don't know.

[CarpeFelis]

I was hoping Saru would stay behind on Kaminar for a while. He’s becoming kind of obnoxious.

Edited February 25, 2019 by CarpeFelis
typo

[Lilly77]

I think it is Michael.  It is always Michael.

The search for Spock has gone on a bit long.  I was starting to wonder if this season's twist was going to be that Ethan Peck was only going to be in one episode.

[Clanstarling]

4 hours ago, Lilly77 said:

I think it is Michael.  It is always Michael.

The search for Spock has gone on a bit long.  I was starting to wonder if this season's twist was going to be that Ethan Peck was only going to be in one episode.

I kind of got that feeling a couple of episodes ago - but I hope that's not what happens.

[aemom]

On 2/22/2019 at 7:55 AM, MissLucas said:

• I would like to know more about Nebula Lt. Commander Airiam.

I feel like a broken record but I would like to learn more about ALL the bridge crew.  There are so many interesting stories there I'm sure.

On 2/24/2019 at 12:21 PM, MissLucas said:

In my book BSG belongs to the unholy trinity of shows who managed to screw their legacy with their ending (the other two are HIMYM and Lost). YMMV.

Never watched HIMYM, but I'm with you for BSG and Lost and would add Dexter to the list.

On 2/24/2019 at 1:12 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

If the Red Angel is a humanoid in a powerful advanced time-traveling suit, this just may be how the episodes get tied in to the Short Trek "Calypso" which possibly took place a 1000 years in the future.

Might be Craft in the Red Angel suit.

That is interesting!  I've been wracking my brain to try and figure out how they would tie in that Short Trek and that would make a lot of sense.

[MissLucas]

That would be a neat idea since there are some great narrative options to pursue. Plus more Aldis Hodge - and that's never a bad thing.

[Linderhill]

Maybe its Captain Jack Harkness, escaped from the doom of Miracle Day. I think he'd like the splashiness of the red angel design.

[DrBriCa]

On 2/25/2019 at 8:18 AM, Latverian Diplomat said:

I was going to say "how well known is the possibility of time travel in this pre-TOS show? Maybe they wouldn't think of it" then I remembered that Enterprise existed and was full of time travel shenanigans from the get go.

My brain went through that exact same thought process! But yeah, I suppose Archer's reports about the Temporal Cold War could be buried under high levels of classified information. (Almost like Omega particle-level with only Captains and flagship senior officers knowing.)

One other thing (among many) that bothered me greatly with Enterprise was how they made Vulcan mind meld taboo until Surak's teachings were re-discovered in Season 4. Seems a bit of a stretch that within just 100 years, Vulcans would master the technique again to the level where Sarek & Michael can communicate light-years away, Spock can meld through walls and with Horta, and T'Pau can return a katra into a reborn Spock.

[xaxat]

On 2/25/2019 at 11:18 AM, Latverian Diplomat said:

I was going to say "how well known is the possibility of time travel in this pre-TOS show? Maybe they wouldn't think of it" then I remembered that Enterprise existed and was full of time travel shenanigans from the get go. Unless Archer never finished those mission reports T'Pol was always reminding him about.

If they tie this into the Temporal Cold War I might throw something at my TV.

[Ottis]

On 2/22/2019 at 10:53 PM, xodus1914 said:

I know a lot of folks here are a little twisted on Pike disobeying the Prime Directive, but I urge everyone to acknowledge that the entire scenario was on shaky grounds to start. Clearly the Prime was put into place to avoid the natural evolution of a species. However,  the Baal had warp and both races were intertwined, making it a gray area at best. But knowing that walking away would mean the continued, ritual genocide of a race supersedes the Prime....

Actually, the Federation walked away from that situation once, when they found Saru, so walking away again wouldn’t be unusual. Now, through their actions, the Discovery essentially created a more drastic genocidal threat. So I guess you may as well go all in. 

I mean, the whole situation reeks. Walking away from a situation where a sentient species preys on another sentient species wasn’t cool to start with. 

One of the TV tropes I most dislike is the miraculous recovery of a loved one thought dead, who is now not the same person as when lost. And the Hugh and Stemmet story is starting to feel that way. I really hope it isn’t going to be that. 

They found Spock, and I didn’t care. Clearly he was repeating something to protect his mind. Didn’t care much why. 

This show started out with a bang, but aside from exploring the Kelpian thing, it has become more of a whimper 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Ottis

[Tyro49]

So what the heck is "short Trek"? and how do you access it? And should we be dependent on developments in an "auxilliary" to the show to understand what's going on?

I'd like to believe the "red angel" is just that - an alien with unknown motives of its own.