Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[WendyCR72]

4 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah I hate that interaction as well - it just seemed OOC for Eames and I didn’t like how Goren was disliked by the higher ups, it didn’t make a lot of sense to me. 

Don’t care for either episode, both were soapy. I’m watching Frame on WE right now though, it pissed me off how they had Rodgers tell Captain Douchebag about Goren’s father, Goren had every right to lose it because of that. Really disliked the hints at a Rodgers/Ross relationship, I can’t stand Ross.

Yep, we talked about Goren flipping out before, and as you know, I agree. I love Rodgers, but she really is lucky that Goren never reported her for privacy violations or whatever.

As an aside, I am kind of watching both. LOL! Turning back and forth between commercials. I know ION is showing "30" next, and WE will be showing "Playing Dead" and "Rock Star" next in their mini block. Gotta love late-night binges. Assuming I make it. If not, it is what it is.

[Fostersmom]

Can someone one explain to me how this show worked? I never watched it when it first was on, but have been watching the repeats. I'm so confused as to the detectives. One episode will have D'onofrio, but then the next has Chris North, and then there's one with Jeff Goldbloom. The credits only show them, not the other two. When checked IMDB, it had D'onofrio basically overlapping them both. But there never seems to be an episode with a mix of the actors.

[Dirtybubble]

16 minutes ago, Fostersmom said:

Can someone one explain to me how this show worked? I never watched it when it first was on, but have been watching the repeats. I'm so confused as to the detectives. One episode will have D'onofrio, but then the next has Chris North, and then there's one with Jeff Goldbloom. The credits only show them, not the other two. When checked IMDB, it had D'onofrio basically overlapping them both. But there never seems to be an episode with a mix of the actors.

For the first 3 or 4 seasons it was just Goren and Eams but during season 5 or 6 or 7 they did one episode with G & E and then the next episode with North and whomever his female partner would be....then during season 8 North was replaced the Goldbloom....

 

[Fostersmom]

1 hour ago, Dirtybubble said:

For the first 3 or 4 seasons it was just Goren and Eams but during season 5 or 6 or 7 they did one episode with G & E and then the next episode with North and whomever his female partner would be....then during season 8 North was replaced the Goldbloom....

 

Okay, that's the weirdest thing I've ever heard for a TV show. I get not every character needs to be in ever episode, but to not have them cross paths at all is just odd. Were they filming on both coasts? Did they even write them to be on different shifts or were they like whole different offices? So many questions now!

 

[peacheslatour]

Logan did cross paths with Goren and Eames in a few episodes and when Eames was on maternity leave, Goren had one of Logan's partners for a while.

[WendyCR72]

10 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Logan did cross paths with Goren and Eames in a few episodes and when Eames was on maternity leave, Goren had one of Logan's partners for a while.

This all sounds like stuff we know, but for the newbies like @Fostersmom,, here goes!

Not quite, regarding the quoted post. Goren/Eames did cross paths with Logan/Barek in S5. Both teams were involved in the two-parter, "In The Wee Small Hours" (originally a single 2-hour episode when it originally aired). Detective Carolyn Barek, played by Annabella Sciorra, was only in S5. Apparently, her character did not go over well and Sciorra left with no fanfare at the end of that season. She would be replaced in S6 by Julianne Nicholson as Detective Megan Wheeler. Season 5 also saw the departure of the show's first captain, Jimmy Deakins, played by Jamey Sheridan since the inception of the show. Ditto for Courtney B. Vance's ADA Ron Carver, who would also depart at the close of S5. Unlike Deakins, Carver would not have a steady replacement. Actress Theresa Randle played the new ADA in S6 but quickly left, since the show gave her little to do. From then on, it was a series of day-player ADAs.

Eric Bogosian would then join the show in S6 as Captain Danny Ross.

Goren/Eames would also work with Nichols after Captain Ross' death in "Loyalty" in S9. (I guess that is a spoiler, but the show is rather old now, so...) Also, Nichols would partner with Eames in S8 while Goren was out of town. (Zack Nichols would become Wheeler's partner after Mike Logan exited the franchise for the second and last time at the end of S7.)

The partner Goren had in S3 was not a former partner of Logan's. She was Goren's temporary partner, named Detective G. Lynn Bishop (with no one ever knowing what the G. even stood for!), when Eames was having a baby as a surrogate for her sister. Also known as Kathryn Erbe's real-life maternity leave. (And S3 was before the alternating teams.)

The alternating teams began in S5, though it was set up in "Stress Position" in S4 with the re-introduction of Mike Logan. It's well known - as he outright admitted it - that VDO was suffering from exhaustion as his character was in almost every scene and each episode for him was 20 to 30 pages of dialogue per episode to memorize, so S5 took some pressure off with the alternating teams.

Also of note, for new viewers, Logan himself would have a temporary partner in Alicia Witt's Detective Nola Falacci in S7 while Julianne Nicholson (Megan Wheeler) was on maternity leave. (Wheeler would be in Europe, looking over an old case of hers.)

And to answer one question, it was all filmed in New York, no different coasts. When one team was on, just assume the other team was there working, unseen, as it is the same police precinct, 11th floor of One Police Plaza.

Goren/Eames would exit in S9, in the two-parter, "Loyalty". The show - for the rest of S9 - was Nichols and a new partner, Serena Stevens, played by Saffron Burrows, as Julianne Nicholson departed the series near the end of S8 after delivering her second child. Megan Wheeler just did kind of a fade. She went to the hospital in the middle of a case...then gone, following the announcement of her character also having a baby. (This was probably due to the 2008 Writers' Strike, where things everywhere on every show were in flux then.)

The audience did not take well to a Nichols-only CI with Stevens and a new captain with Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio as Zoe Callas. Soooo...S10 would bring everything full circle. Vincent D'Onofrio and Kathryn Erbe came back for a short S10 - eight episodes - to close the series out. And, like with Seasons 1 through 4, they were the only team. With yet one last new captain played by Jay O. Sanders named Captain Joseph Hannah. (Sanders played a perp in the S2 premiere of this show, titled, "Dead", so some were a bit put off by this casting. But he did a good job, I think.) Whew!

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Logan did cross paths with Goren and Eames in a few episodes and when Eames was on maternity leave, Goren had one of Logan's partners for a while.

No Goren never had any of Logan’s partners, Bishop, his partner when Eames was out, was never one of Logan’s partners. Logan did have scenes with Goren/Eames in a few episodes, and Eames worked with Nichols in a couple of episodes when Wheeler was out on maternity leave. 

18 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yep, we talked about Goren flipping out before, and as you know, I agree. I love Rodgers, but she really is lucky that Goren never reported her for privacy violations or whatever.

As an aside, I am kind of watching both. LOL! Turning back and forth between commercials. I know ION is showing "30" next, and WE will be showing "Playing Dead" and "Rock Star" next in their mini block. Gotta love late-night binges. Assuming I make it. If not, it is what it is.

Ross should never have pressured Rodgers to reveal Goren’s private info, it’s another reason why I think Ross was giant douche, but yeah Rodgers still should’ve not told him. It was astounding to me how quick Ross was to think of Goren as a suspect, it showed how little he trusted Goren, he was a condescending douche and probably my least favorite main character in the history of the whole L&O franchise. 

[Jaded]

Am I misremembering that the actress who played Bishop was really annoying? Someone in casting on that show had a thing for red heads I think.

[WendyCR72]

9 minutes ago, Jaded said:

Am I misremembering that the actress who played Bishop was really annoying? Someone in casting on that show had a thing for red heads I think.

Nope! As a matter of fact, the vaulted full forum for this show had the Season 3 thread partially titled "Bishop Being Annoying".  Looking back, for me it was less "annoying" than just basically humorless/too serious/eager, whatever.

[Dirtybubble]

14 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

No Goren never had any of Logan’s partners, Bishop, his partner when Eames was out, was never one of Logan’s partners. Logan did have scenes with Goren/Eames in a few episodes, and Eames worked with Nichols in a couple of episodes when Wheeler was out on maternity leave. 

Ross should never have pressured Rodgers to reveal Goren’s private info, it’s another reason why I think Ross was giant douche, but yeah Rodgers still should’ve not told him. It was astounding to me how quick Ross was to think of Goren as a suspect, it showed how little he trusted Goren, he was a condescending douche and probably my least favorite main character in the history of the whole L&O franchise. 

I was always under the impression that Ross was Rogers boss (not just boyfriend) so maybe she felt she HAD to tell him what the test results were *shrug* Honestly I always felt a little sorry for Rogers.  Even if Goren was justified in his anger, his temper and outbursts are SCARY and I can't imagine that kind of behavior would have flown in this day.  I wouldn't have felt comfortable working with him again....

 

[Xeliou66]

4 minutes ago, Dirtybubble said:

I was always under the impression that Ross was Rogers boss (not just boyfriend) so maybe she felt she HAD to tell him what the test results were *shrug* Honestly I always felt a little sorry for Rogers.  Even if Goren was justified in his anger, his temper and outbursts are SCARY and I can't imagine that kind of behavior would have flown in this day.  I wouldn't have felt comfortable working with him again....

 

No Ross wasn’t Rodgers boss, they work in 2 different offices, so she had no obligation to tell him. I felt Goren was justified in his anger, I was almost surprised they never brought his outburst up again.

[WendyCR72]

6 hours ago, Dirtybubble said:

I was always under the impression that Ross was Rogers boss (not just boyfriend) so maybe she felt she HAD to tell him what the test results were *shrug* Honestly I always felt a little sorry for Rogers.  Even if Goren was justified in his anger, his temper and outbursts are SCARY and I can't imagine that kind of behavior would have flown in this day.  I wouldn't have felt comfortable working with him again....

 

Rodgers had ZERO reason to tell Ross. He is not her superior. As @Xeliou66 said, it was two different departments. Add in Goren's own boss was targeting him, Goren's boss found out Goren's biological sperm donor was a SERIAL KILLER and used it against him, AND that it appeared to Goren (before Eames took him out for a walk and explained) that Eames had believed Ross and Bobby felt he had no one on his side?

I think his anger and frustration was MORE THAN justified. And, if you listen to what Bobby was saying as he was yelling and throwing files or whatever, he was saying, "YOU SWORE THIS WOULD BE CONFIDENTIAL!" So, yeah. I get his frustration, anger, and feeling betrayed.

And it was completely out of character for Rodgers to spill as she did. And she was lucky, in any case, that Goren didn't report her. (For all we know, maybe it was an off screen quid pro quo: Rodgers forgave Goren's freak out and Goren forgave her.)

That's my wank since Goren was pretty kind to Rodgers during the whole Ross aftermath in "Loyalty".

And as that discomfort that some others may feel was brought up in Goren's therapy sessions, maybe that was a reason it became a condition for his reinstatement in the final season.

[WendyCR72]

Jeff Goldblum was on a Kelly Clarkson Show repeat today.

[WendyCR72]

I see ION has "Betrayed" and "Assassin" for tonight/tomorrow morning's mini block. I like "Betrayed" for Brenda Strong's acting and the G/E interplay post Goren's...well, betrayal (ha!) of Eames' trust with the undercover aftermath, but Ross ramping up the douche angle to 20 makes me grit my teeth.

And now insensitive of him to be rambling about Kathy in front of Rodgers. Yes, it was a case, but Ross clearly had more of an interest in Kathy than as a mere pal and it made him look extra douchey since he had...whatever...with Rodgers at the time, too.

[WendyCR72]

Watching "Betrayed" and I know I said this before, but I still just don't understand why they had the scene with Kathy decorating a nursery. She knew her hubby was gone. She told Ross he never showed up at the clinic for IVF. So what the hell was she doing that for?

[Xeliou66]

I like Betrayed a lot, the plot was compelling and good despite it being somewhat predictable that Kathy would be the culprit. It had the feel of a classic seasons 1-5  CI episode. But Ross was at his worst, he was a prick throughout the episode - extremely condescending and disrespectful towards Goren and Eames and he let his personal tie to Kathy completely destroy his objectivity. If it wasn’t for Goren and Eames pushing to investigate, the case would’ve gone unsolved. Ross was a douche most of the time but this episode featured him at his worst. 

I did wonder a bit about the timeline, when did Kathy leave Woody’s car at JFK and ship the phone out of the country? And how exactly did Kathy kill Woody and Avery? 

Agreed that the scene with Kathy decorating the nursery made zero sense. 

[WendyCR72]

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

But Ross was at his worst, he was a prick throughout the episode - extremely condescending and disrespectful towards Goren and Eames and he let his personal tie to Kathy completely destroy his objectivity. If it wasn’t for Goren and Eames pushing to investigate, the case would’ve gone unsolved. Ross was a douche most of the time but this episode featured him at his worst. 

I still hate the ending, too. All Goren says is, "Captain..."

And Ross is all "not one word, detective!" Screw him. As you said, he was a nonobjective tool the entire episode, so he should throw his anger at himself.

[Xeliou66]

6 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I still hate the ending, too. All Goren says is, "Captain..."

And Ross is all "not one word, detective!" Screw him. As you said, he was a nonobjective tool the entire episode, so he should throw his anger at himself.

Exactly, Ross was a dick at the end for no reason. I really loathe Ross and this episode was probably him at his worst, he was extremely biased, extremely condescending to Goren and Eames and generally an all around prick. This wasn’t unusual behavior from Ross but this episode really showcased it. I felt nothing when Ross was killed off. 

[WendyCR72]

6 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Exactly, Ross was a dick at the end for no reason. I really loathe Ross and this episode was probably him at his worst, he was extremely biased, extremely condescending to Goren and Eames and generally an all around prick. This wasn’t unusual behavior from Ross but this episode really showcased it. I felt nothing when Ross was killed off. 

Eric Bogosian was somewhat of a name. Perhaps it is why he got more to do than the other three captains combined. Still, as a leader, I think Ross was the weakest out of all of them. Yes, even "here and gone" Zoe Callas and Joseph Hannah.

Had the show continued past S10, I think Hannah would have been as good as Deakins was.

JMO here, of course. But I like that they had a hands-off approach and just let their detectives do what they needed to and just went with their instincts and reined them in when appropriate but otherwise left them alone.

Van Buren and even Cragen were like that, too.

[Xeliou66]

9 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Eric Bogosian was somewhat of a name. Perhaps it is why he got more to do than the other three captains combined. Still, as a leader, I think Ross was the weakest out of all of them. Yes, even "here and gone" Zoe Callas and Joseph Hannah.

Had the show continued past S10, I think Hannah would have been as good as Deakins was.

JMO here, of course. But I like that they had a hands-off approach and just let their detectives do what they needed to and just went with their instincts and reined them in when appropriate but otherwise left them alone.

Van Buren and even Cragen were like that, too.

Deakins was my favorite - he was laid back but wasn’t a pushover and was a very good leader. I agree that Hannah was good as well, he brought some life back to the role after the season of the extremely dull Callas. Ross was an obnoxious prick, extremely rude and condescending to the detectives and behaved like a dick most of the time. It annoyed me how Ross got so much more screentime than Deakins did, Deakins was seriously underused. 

Van Buren and Cragen were awesome as well - they all had slightly different styles, but they were great.

[WendyCR72]

I remember during the case in "Icarus" as G/E were having issues trying to solve the actor's murder and how Hannah would just dryly quip, "I'm starting to hate the theater!" He had a droll, sarcastic streak that I liked.

Wish there was more time to flesh him out.

[WendyCR72]

On 3/31/2020 at 3:47 PM, Xeliou66 said:

And how exactly did Kathy kill Woody and Avery? 

I think that whole scenario that Goren and Eames recited, about marching them into the water so there would be no blood and using a tarp (like the one in the nursery that Ross brought up) was the way.

[Xeliou66]

14 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I think that whole scenario that Goren and Eames recited, about marching them into the water so there would be no blood and using a tarp (like the one in the nursery that Ross brought up) was the way.

Yeah I agree, but I wonder where she got the gun from? And I wonder where she hid the car, which she later recovered and ditched at JFK, and she mailed the phone out of the country, and how did she find the time to do that with all that was going on? 

[Sigmagirl]

I don’t know how she did it, but they make a point of her having been a former cop. She would know all the tricks.

[WendyCR72]

On 4/1/2020 at 6:42 PM, Sigmagirl said:

I don’t know how she did it, but they make a point of her having been a former cop. She would know all the tricks.

Yep. And Ross mentioned her former job a few times. Not to mention the episode began with a police benefit dinner (with real-life Senator Charles Schumer introducing Kathy). So, she would have tools at her disposal and knowledge that an "average" perp probably wouldn't.

[Xeliou66]

49 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yep. And Ross mentioned her former job a few times. Not to mention the episode began with a police benefit dinner (with real-life Senator Charles Schumer introducing Kathy.) So, she would have tools at her disposal and knowledge that an "average" perp probably wouldn't.

I liked the Schumer cameo, it was a nice touch to tie the show into the real world, I always liked when the franchise had people appear as themselves. 

I agree that Kathy would have a lot of knowledge and was very well prepared, I just wondered how she found the time to hide the car, then go back and get the car and ditch it at JFK, wire the money and send the cell phone out of the country. It just seemed like a lot to do while being at the center of high profile missing persons case. 

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I liked the Schumer cameo, it was a nice touch to tie the show into the real world, I always liked when the franchise had people appear as themselves. 

Yeah. I remember the discussion about politicians used in the franchise. And as was said, the formula was pretty simple.

If the scenario involved something positive, real-life politicians would appear. And if the scenario was negative, out came the fake politicians. (Probably for the best so Wolf/the franchise did not get sued!)

[peacheslatour]

14 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah. I remember the discussion about politicians used in the franchise. And as was said, the formula was pretty simple.

If the scenario involved something positive, real-life politicians would appear. And if the scenario was negative, out came the fake politicians. (Probably for the best so Wolf/the franchise did not get sued!)

Or if it was negative no sane politician would agree to appear.

[WendyCR72]

5 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Or if it was negative no sane politician would agree to appear.

Yeah, there is that! 🙂 

[Sigmagirl]

So in "Last Street in Manhattan" the soulless Stephanie Miller tells the detectives that she "doesn’t set up one client with another client’s castoffs." So this means she has this database of stunning, cultured, sophisticated, accomplished, educated, desirable women, and if she introduces one of them to a client and they don’t get married, the poor babe is deleted from the database forever? No second chance with the next guy who might be her soulmate or even "short-term companionship?"

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Sigmagirl said:

So in "Last Street in Manhattan" the soulless Stephanie Miller tells the detectives that she "doesn’t set up one client with another client’s castoffs." So this means she has this database of stunning, cultured, sophisticated, accomplished, educated, desirable women, and if she introduces one of them to a client and they don’t get married, the poor babe is deleted from the database forever? No second chance with the next guy who might be her soulmate or even "short-term companionship?"

I LOVED Alex's snark to her when Stephanie asked, "Why shouldn't your soulmate be vetted by a professional?" or whatever.

"Because it's soulless?" And I liked Bobby's quick pivot and his small smile after that.

I really, really like S10. Especially after the zero energy that was S9. And "Cadaver" is on now. How ironic that the victim's wife is played by franchise mainstay Jenna Stern?

She helped usher in the show in S1 in "Crazy" (as the ex-wife falsely accusing her doctor ex of molesting their daughter) and ushered it out in "Cadaver". (I remember her as a doomed ADA on the Mothership that was murdered, too.)

[WendyCR72]

Love Alex's smile and "They should have sold tickets to THIS!" in "Icarus" just now as Amanda Rollins -Broadway producer, not cop - drunkenly melted down.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

She helped usher in the show in S1 in "Crazy" (as the ex-wife falsely accusing her doctor ex of molesting their daughter) and ushered it out in "Cadaver"

Really? There were only six episodes in Season 10?  It was a really odd little show, wasn't it?

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Really? There were only six episodes in Season 10?  It was a really odd little show, wasn't it?

No, there were eight episodes in S10:

"Rispetto"

"The Consoler" (which was supposed to be the premiere, but Charlie Sheen losing his shit happened back then, so TPTB had to capitalize upon it and made "Rispetto"!)

"Boots On the Ground"

"The Last Street In Manhattan"

"Trophy Wine"

"Cadaver"

"Icarus"

"To The Boy in the Blue Knit Cap" (Series finale)

When I said ushering it out, I meant it was close enough to the end, what with only two more episodes airing after it!  🙂 Sorry for the confusion. For the record, in S4, Jenna Stern also played a very ambitious and scruple-free advisor to one of Deakins' old friends, Frank Adair, a cop running for office in "My Good Name". Adair would end up being the catalyst for Deakins' departure a season later in "On Fire". One thing this show did pretty well was history/callbacks to prior episodes.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

"Rispetto"

I saw that one last night and then I realized you meant the final season, not the final episode. Sorry for my part of the confusion. Boy, Jay Mohr, right? What an eccentric performance.

[Sigmagirl]

So, who thinks Tori went ahead with her wedding anyway after one of her bridesmaids got murdered in a fleabag motel? 
🤚🏻

[WendyCR72]

8 hours ago, Sigmagirl said:

So, who thinks Tori went ahead with her wedding anyway after one of her bridesmaids got murdered in a fleabag motel? 
🤚🏻

Oh, yeah. And it would be no loss if screechy Alice wasn't a bridesmaid, after all. Damn, but was she annoying!

9 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I saw that one last night and then I realized you meant the final season, not the final episode. Sorry for my part of the confusion. Boy, Jay Mohr, right? What an eccentric performance.

Jay Mohr was channeling ol' Charlie Sheen as best he could. But it's kind of hard to emulate THAT level of crazy, you know?  😉

[Xeliou66]

I saw The Faithful and I have to say I was annoyed with Goren’s sympathy for Melanie and wanting to protect her. She wasn’t worth protecting, it was partially her fault what happened because she gave up Kevin when he was born and wouldn’t have anything to do with him, she deserved no sympathy, and neither did the killer priest. It was one of the few times Goren irritated me. That episode felt disjointed in places, it seemed odd how quick they were to assume the murdered sexton was involved with Kevin and Kevin’s murder of the sexton really didn’t have anything to do with the priest/father embezzling from the church to help Kevin. I liked Carver’s displeasure with Goren at the end. 

Next up was Jones - I like this episode a lot, the investigation was good and I liked how Goren and Eames got Talbot to explode in interrogation. Talbot’s wife was a complete idiot though. Very little of Carver in this one but a lot of Deakins. 

[WendyCR72]

On 4/7/2020 at 5:03 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I saw The Faithful and I have to say I was annoyed with Goren’s sympathy for Melanie and wanting to protect her. She wasn’t worth protecting, it was partially her fault what happened because she gave up Kevin when he was born and wouldn’t have anything to do with him, she deserved no sympathy, and neither did the killer priest. It was one of the few times Goren irritated me. That episode felt disjointed in places, it seemed odd how quick they were to assume the murdered sexton was involved with Kevin and Kevin’s murder of the sexton really didn’t have anything to do with the priest/father embezzling from the church to help Kevin. I liked Carver’s displeasure with Goren at the end. 

Next up was Jones - I like this episode a lot, the investigation was good and I liked how Goren and Eames got Talbot to explode in interrogation. Talbot’s wife was a complete idiot though. Very little of Carver in this one but a lot of Deakins. 

I love "Jones", most especially when Bobby mocked Talbot for his shoe size and put his size 13 shoe on the table, proudly talking about said size. Also liked his line before, when getting Talbot, "Hey Don Juan, you're under arrest!"

I also didn't care for "The Faithful" that much. But Dana Reeve was good as Melanie. It's too bad she followed her husband, Christopher Reeve, in death so young.

But thinking it over, CI managed to use the church as a focus in at least four episodes, spanning many seasons throughout the series: S1's "The Faithful", S5's "Act of Contrition", S8's "Faithfully", and S10's "The Consoler". Someone had a fascination with crime intermingling with religion!

[Xeliou66]

 

28 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I love "Jones", most especially when Bobby mocked Talbot for his show size and put his size 13 shoe on the table, proudly talking about said size. Also liked his line before, when getting Talbot, "Hey Don Juan, you're under arrest!"

I also didn't care for "The Faithful" that much. But Dana Reeve was good as Melanie. It's too bad she followed her husband, Christopher Reeve, in death so young.

But thinking it over, CI managed to use the church as a focus in at least four episodes, spanning many seasons throughout the series: S1's "The Faithful", S5's "Act of Contrition", S8's "Faithfully", and S10's "The Consoler". Someone had a fascination with crime intermingling with religion!

Yeah Jones was good, I really liked the investigation and how Goren and Eames tracked down Talbot and got him to confess. 

The Faithful just seemed sort of all over the place and the 2 murders weren’t even very connected and the episode just didn’t seem to have a good rhythm, and I was very annoyed with Goren wanting to protect Melanie. I did like “the Goren show” at the start of the episode.  I liked the other 3 church centric episodes better than The Faithful. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Xeliou66

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

 

Yeah Jones was good, I really liked the investigation and how Goren and Eames tracked down Talbot and got him to confess. 

The Faithful just seemed sort of all over the place and the 2 murders weren’t even very connected and the episode just didn’t seem to have a good rhythm, and I was very annoyed with Goren wanting to protect Melanie. I did like “the Goren show” at the start of the episode.  I liked the other 3 church centric episodes better than The Faithful. 

To be fair, this was also the show still trying to find what worked and maybe what didn't. It was only a few episodes in, so there were likely some growing pains. I think as S1 progressed, the characterizations got significantly better.

That being said, Goren still had a soft spot for the weak and/or mentally ill, so maybe that was actually consistent, for good or bad. Probably heavily influenced by his own life and his mother, etc.

[Sigmagirl]

Count me in as being dissatisfied with Goren’s protection of Melanie, but Carver’s dressing-down Goren was inappropriate. I’m not a lawyer, so somebody please tell me: Did Goren do something unethical? It’s his job to get a confession out of a suspect, and the priest knew he was screwed when he heard her name. Also, Eames is senior partner and she went along with it, albeit with misgivings, so what’s  Carver all over Goren about it? 

[WendyCR72]

6 hours ago, Sigmagirl said:

Count me in as being dissatisfied with Goren’s protection of Melanie, but Carver’s dressing-down Goren was inappropriate. I’m not a lawyer, so somebody please tell me: Did Goren do something unethical? It’s his job to get a confession out of a suspect, and the priest knew he was screwed when he heard her name. Also, Eames is senior partner and she went along with it, albeit with misgivings, so what’s  Carver all over Goren about it? 

That's one angle we have dissected again and again and I asked the same question. Personally, I think Carver just did not like being shown up. But, as you say, his freak out had zero basis.

Goren got the priest to confess and it saved money on a trial, so Carver could have several seats there.

For that matter, his similar freak out a season later in "Best Defense" when Goren and Eames kept Carver in the dark about Peter Bonham framing his wife for murder was also justified in my view because at the beginning of that episode, it was clear that Carver had a relationship - coworkers or friends - with Peter Bonham and had railed about not embarrassing them at one point. In real life, I would say he should have recused. But, as it is TV, I think G/E did what they had to, later with Bonham and early on with the priest.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

That's one angle we have dissected again and again and I asked the same question. Personally, I think Carver just did not like being shown up. But, as you say, his freak out had zero basis.

Goren got the priest to confess and it saved money on a trial, so Carver could have several seats there.

For that matter, his similar freak out a season later in "Best Defense" when Goren and Eames kept Carver in the dark about Peter Bonham framing his wife for murder was also justified in my view because at the beginning of that episode, it was clear that Carver had a relationship - coworkers or friends - with Peter Bonham and had railed about not embarrassing them at one point. In real life, I would say he should have recused. But, as it is TV, I think G/E did what they had to, later with Bonham and early on with the priest.

I thought Carver’s anger at Goren was justified in The Faithful, I would’ve been pissed as well if I thought I had been kept in the dark about an aspect of the case, Goren should’ve told Carver about Melanie, and I was really irritated with Goren wanting to protect her. 

The situation was different in Best Defense, Goren and Eames were right to withhold information from Carver given his relationship with the Bonham, it was necessary for the case, and Arthur Branch should’ve taken Carver off of the case given his relationship with Bonham or Carver should’ve recused himself. 

[WendyCR72]

I'd like to think Linda Bonham took their daughter and changed their last names and had a fabulous life as revenge. What a baby that Peter Bonham could not deal with his wife's success. Or that he could not just man up and get a divorce.

Speaking of kids, in watching "Bedfellows" on MyNetwork now, I'm betting both those boys were beyond screwed up, thanks to their grandfather still playing favorites, Charlene being an addict, and Lena in prison. I know I should feel sorry for Jules Copeland, losing both sons, but it's clear he didn't care about Ted, and right there, it makes him a crappy father, grandfather, and human being.

But Rip Torn did a great job. Cool to see him with VDO again after Men In Black.

[WendyCR72]

How ironic, as we were just discussing it, but "Best Defense" from S2 with wuss Peter Bonham just started on WE right now.  🙂

[peacheslatour]

I love the way Erbe relishes the word "murder". It seems she's the main one to slap the cuffs on the perps and she says "You're under arrest for MURDER." Cracks me up.

[Sigmagirl]

Compared with when the odious Bishop, who left a hole you could drive a truck through: 

"You’re under arrest. 
 

 

 

For murder."

[WendyCR72]

For anyone that watches on ION, DVR the 1:00 a.m. to 3:00 a.m. block tonight/tomorrow morning. Looks like - after that - it's hiatus time again. (It is being replaced by The Listener.)

On the positive side, ION is finally taking the Mothership out of mothballs in May per its site.

The revolving schedule that channel does is just strange to me.

 

On another note, I like when Kathryn Erbe/Alex emphasizes "murder", too. LOL! But, hey, Alex is from a family of cops! I have always liked Eames as much as I did Goren, but Bishop taking over for her for a while really made me appreciate Kathryn Erbe's humor/wit. Samantha Buck's Bishop was just too serious all the freaking time. And that was definitely highlighted when Goren went after that publisher at the restaurant played by Judd Hirsch. I love how when Bishop said she didn't enjoy Bobby's spectacle, he was all, "Really? Eames would have!"

And he was right.

[WendyCR72]

Bye, ION. Until next time! And ION still lives up to its PAX roots and hates the word "prick", edited out of "Icarus". The end...for now!