Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[Xeliou66]

11 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

Yeah, but this is one of those areas where continuity has to take a back seat to the network and the show's lawyers. Given that they were depicting the governor's office in a rather negative light they couldn't actually use the name of a real life politician. And while as a NYS resident I firmly believe that they could get away it legally since truth is an absolute defense in a libel case, they were filming in NY and taking money from the city and state so that's pretty much a deal breaker. Given that in the L&Overse it seemed all the politicians were constantly resigning after getting implicated in scandals uncovered by murder investigations we can just assume that's what happened off screen and handwave it away without too much trouble. Not perfect continuity, but far from the worst mistake especially since the rule seemed to be that they used real names until they actually became part of the episode (except for cameos) so it fits in pretty well that way.

Oh I understand why they did it, I’m just saying it was poor continuity. The whole plot of The Pardoner’s Tale is somewhat complicated and it isn’t one of my favorite CI episodes anyway. I love The Good Doctor and Poison though.

[WendyCR72]

To be fair, politicians on CI seemed to be a curious mix of real and fake. Fake, being the aforementioned governor. Real, in that New York Senator Chuck Schumer appeared as himself in "Betrayed" in Season 7.

And I could be wrong, but didn't even the Mothership use a fake governor or gubernatorial candidate in an episode? (I know Rudy Giuliani appeared when he was Mayor and Joe Biden, when VP, did a cameo on SVU, as well.)

[wknt3]

10 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

To be fair, politicians on CI seemed to be a curious mix of real and fake. Fake, being the aforementioned governor. Real, in that New York Senator Chuck Schumer appeared as himself in "Betrayed" in Season 7.

And I could be wrong, but didn't even the Mothership use a fake governor or gubernatorial candidate in an episode? (I know Rudy Giuliani appeared when he was Mayor and Joe Biden, when VP, did a cameo on SVU, as well.)

More than one episode - Governor Shalvoy was a recurring character. Although how fake he was is a matter for debate (basically he was Elliot Spitzer with the serial number filed off and better hair). There was also a fake U.S. Senator in "Crashers" and more fake councilmen, state legislators, etc. than we have time to list, even if I could remember them all. As I said the rule seemed to be that used real politicians or their names if they were commenting on policy or to add a little verisimilitude and for cameo appearances and made them up if they were perps, victims. witnesses, or otherwise integral to the story.

[WendyCR72]

7 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

More than one episode - Governor Shalvoy was a recurring character. Although how fake he was is a matter for debate (basically he was Elliot Spitzer with the serial number filed off and better hair). There was also a fake U.S. Senator in "Crashers" and more fake councilmen, state legislators, etc. than we have time to list, even if I could remember them all. As I said the rule seemed to be that used real politicians or their names if they were commenting on policy or to add a little verisimilitude and for cameo appearances and made them up if they were perps, victims. witnesses, or otherwise integral to the story.

Or, to put it succinctly: When real politicians were seen, it was for good. Fake ones were all slimy criminals! (In all seriousness, though, I agree. And those fakes certainly staved off many a lawsuit, so...  Kind of hard to tell stories "ripped from the headlines" without them!)

[GHScorpiosRule]

The ONLY time I think they used real politicians, and that was on the Mothership, was in the first season --where Bloomberg held a press conference, praising how the cops and feds worked together to solve the murders. "The Troubles."

And of course Schumer, but I don't remember that episode from this show.

[WendyCR72]

10 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

The ONLY time I think they used real politicians, and that was on the Mothership, was in the first season --where Bloomberg held a press conference, praising how the cops and feds worked together to solve the murders. "The Troubles."

And of course Schumer, but I don't remember that episode from this show.

Schumer appeared in the very beginning of "Betrayed" introducing author Kathy Jarrow at some police shindig, before she said she couldn't find her much-younger husband, only to have Ross lose all objectivity and scream at Goren and Eames for the rest of the episode.

[wknt3]

On 8/23/2019 at 8:58 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

The ONLY time I think they used real politicians, and that was on the Mothership, was in the first season --where Bloomberg held a press conference, praising how the cops and feds worked together to solve the murders. "The Troubles."

And of course Schumer, but I don't remember that episode from this show.

At the time of "The Troubles" Guiliani was mayor and I don't believe there was any mayoral press conference real or fictional. Rudy did appear in "Endurance" for Lewin's first day as DA. He appointed her based on her experience prosecuting mob cases for him when he US Attorney. Bloomberg appeared a couple of times at press conferences with Branch, twice in "Nowhere Man", and again in "Paradigm". And as has been mentioned Joe Biden was on SVU although that is probably best forgotten along with much of the second half of that series' run.
 

On 8/23/2019 at 7:15 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Schumer appeared in the very beginning of "Betrayed" introducing author Kathy Jarrow at some police shindig, before she said she couldn't find her much-younger husband, only to have Ross lose all objectivity and scream at Goren and Eames for the rest of the episode.

Not sure Ross acting like an ass is notable enough to be worth mentioning or to help viewers recall the episode in question...

Edited August 25, 2019 by wknt3

[WendyCR72]

"Contract" was the last CI episode today before the Mothership took over on WE. The whole deal with the movie and the actor dying in Louisiana and the guy who wrote it being in witness protection was just so damned convoluted.

But Jeannie. It was said at the end she had just turned 17. As one in the same boat, she cannot help how she looks or sounds, but the actress always made me think she was around 14 or 15, so the very end with Freeburg admitting to statutory rape was extra eeewww. Someone here said they think this could be based on Harvey Weinstein? I can see that.

Speaking of "statutory" rape here, why not rape, period? It was pretty clear that Jeannie did not want to have sex with Freeburg. She even said her brother knew "something terrible" had happened when he saw her face.

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

"Contract" was the last CI episode today before the Mothership took over on WE. The whole deal with the movie and the actor dying in Louisiana and the guy who wrote it being in witness protection was just so damned convoluted.

But Jeannie. It was said at the end she had just turned 17. As one in the same boat, she cannot help how she looks or sounds, but the actress always made me think she was around 14 or 15, so the very end with Freeburg admitting to statutory rape was extra eeewww. Someone here said they think this could be based on Harvey Weinstein? I can see that.

Speaking of "statutory" rape here, why not rape, period? It was pretty clear that Jeannie did not want to have sex with Freeburg. She even said her brother knew "something terrible" had happened when he saw her face.

Contract was a convoluted, confusing mess. I would have to rewatch it to see what I thought about the whole rape vs statutory rape thing, but yeah I thought it was rape as well. That episode was just horribly confusing though, it could’ve been interesting if executed well but instead it was a jumbled disaster.

[WendyCR72]

35 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Contract was a convoluted, confusing mess. I would have to rewatch it to see what I thought about the whole rape vs statutory rape thing, but yeah I thought it was rape as well. That episode was just horribly confusing though, it could’ve been interesting if executed well but instead it was a jumbled disaster.

My theory is, the witness protection stuff was just a way for USA to do their little crossover with Mary McCormack's character from In Plain Sight. (She was the one that handled witness protection for the mobster lover of Freeburg's wife, "Frank Chess", that wrote the movie script, and who was in Ross' office giving Ross and Logan the lowdown. I never watched the show but knew her/the character through the then millions of commercials that USA used to run for it.)

[ML89]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

My theory is, the witness protection stuff was just a way for USA to do their little crossover with Mary McCormack's character from In Plain Sight. (She was the one that handled witness protection for the mobster lover of Freeburg's wife, "Frank Chess", that wrote the movie script, and who was in Ross' office giving Ross and Logan the lowdown. I never watched the show but knew her/the character through the then millions of commercials that USA used to run for it.)

It was. I remembered the promotion but had forgotten the name of the show. The time reference was its time slot. 

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

My theory is, the witness protection stuff was just a way for USA to do their little crossover with Mary McCormack's character from In Plain Sight. (She was the one that handled witness protection for the mobster lover of Freeburg's wife, "Frank Chess", that wrote the movie script, and who was in Ross' office giving Ross and Logan the lowdown. I never watched the show but knew her/the character through the then millions of commercials that USA used to run for it.)

Oh god, don’t get me started on how awful that cameo was with the cheesy line from Logan about what’s going on in Albuquerque whatever night the show was coming on. That was so out of place and so forced, it was cringeworthy. 

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, ML89 said:

It was. I remembered the promotion but had forgotten the name of the show. The time reference was its time slot. 

The time thing makes that cameo even cheesier!

[ekblackwell]

Hi,everyone! New here. I can't think of the episode title where the killer drew cartoons and animated them. He killed with his brother in their basement; the brother was in the merchant marines/Navy and Goren figured the killings happened when the brother's ship was in port.

I tried searching for the title and can't find it.

[Xeliou66]

13 minutes ago, ekblackwell said:

Hi,everyone! New here. I can't think of the episode title where the killer drew cartoons and animated them. He killed with his brother in their basement; the brother was in the merchant marines/Navy and Goren figured the killings happened when the brother's ship was in port.

I tried searching for the title and can't find it.

I think you are talking about the episode Watch, the guy killed with his cousin actually and it was a Logan/Barek episode, but the rest of the details match. 

[ekblackwell]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

I think you are talking about the episode Watch, the guy killed with his cousin actually and it was a Logan/Barek episode, but the rest of the details match. 

I swore it was Goren/Eames; I didn't look hard at Watch because it was Logan. But that's the one; thanks!

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I think you are talking about the episode Watch, the guy killed with his cousin actually and it was a Logan/Barek episode, but the rest of the details match. 

With the perp played by the late Brad Renfro.

6 hours ago, ekblackwell said:

I swore it was Goren/Eames; I didn't look hard at Watch because it was Logan. But that's the one; thanks!

Yep, that was Logan/Barek, a pretty good episode, even if, by today's standards, the end animation was sort of primitive. Still got the chilling point across!

[WendyCR72]

I said this in the old forum, but..."Identity Crisis" from S8 is the last episode in the WE marathon today and on now, and I am sort of shocked - in a good way - that there were absolutely no parallels mentioned in the episode between Goren and the perp. Both had schizophrenic mothers and issues with their brothers, yet the show went subtle this time.

I do think VDO infused some wordless reactions at times which worked for me, but I like that Waylon Green, the EP, did not feel the need to slam the viewers over the head with the similarities. If this had been a season earlier under Warren Leight, the anvils would have been flying fast and furious.

[Sigmagirl]

I was thinking the exact same things! When they were out in the grocery parking lot talking to the murdered brother’s ex-wife and she described the mother as "you know, a schizo," you could see the pain pass over his face.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Sigmagirl said:

I was thinking the exact same things! When they were out in the grocery parking lot talking to the murdered brother’s ex-wife and she described the mother as "you know, a schizo," you could see the pain pass over his face.

Yeah, and the tone when he asked the ex-wife what she meant when she called her ex "damaged goods" (since G/E by then already knew about the mother's illness). VDO still infused his character with some pain, but it was low key, and I think the episode, overall, was better for it.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I have a question about the ending in "Tomorrow" about the two sisters, Hannah and Sarah, who were nannies. Now, did Sarah, the younger one, kill the son and his friend? Or was it Hannah? or did both of them just go all Manson on the son, his friend and sister? I couldn't tell from the ambiguous ending. Because the father "pretended" I think? to get Sarah a lawyer? I LOATHE ambiguous endings.

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I have a question about the ending in "Tomorrow" about the two sisters, Hannah and Sarah, who were nannies. Now, did Sarah, the younger one, kill the son and his friend? Or was it Hannah? or did both of them just go all Manson on the son, his friend and sister? I couldn't tell from the ambiguous ending. Because the father "pretended" I think? to get Sarah a lawyer? I LOATHE ambiguous endings.

I could be wrong, but I think it was both, but as Hannah claimed, Sarah lured the sister over since Hannah did not know her phone number, but Sarah did. So I think both had involvement.

[WendyCR72]

"Lady's Man" just started, and one detail that escaped me is this: Boz Burnham's buddy says a woman called and told him that his son was in the hospital. And later, another friend talked about meeting the redhead in the bar...same issue, which is? I get that Kevin Mulrooney could make himself look like a woman. But how the hell did he sound like one?

The only big hole in a good (IMO!) unusually Eames-focused episode.

[Sigmagirl]

At the end of “Shandeh,” Ursula Sussman is being dragged away screaming at Danny to "do something" as he stands there motionless. Is he (a) continuing his pattern of passivity, letting things happen to him and waiting for others to take charge, or (b) letting her twist in the wind, resolving to man up and do right by his father’s legacy?

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Sigmagirl said:

At the end of “Shandeh,” Ursula Sussman is being dragged away screaming at Danny to "do something" as he stands there motionless. Is he (a) continuing his pattern of passivity, letting things happen to him and waiting for others to take charge, or (b) letting her twist in the wind, resolving to man up and do right by his father’s legacy?

I think that is up to the viewer to decide. His history is good for A, but I'd prefer B.

[GHScorpiosRule]

While I love “Stress Position” because it was the return of the real Mike Logan, as a detective who has done his fair share of questioning witnesses, I thought it was out of character for him to show up at Major Case and accuse Bobby and Alex of harassing Gina. But, plot! and a reason to bring him back, so I hand wave it away.🤪

Speaking of which, she was so fucking annoying. If she was scared to speak freely, she could have written it down and slipped it to them. And the There was her holding onto Aziz’s letter to his mother. Stupid bint.😒😒😒

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Speaking of which, she was so fucking annoying. If she was scared to speak freely, she could have written it down and slipped it to them

I approve this message. Holly in S6 seemed normal and basically sane, but I think that went waaaay too quick in terms of Logan's intense interest after a single bar date, but again...for the big bad plot monster.

[Xeliou66]

Watching season 9 today, and one thing I’ve noticed that’s weird in season 9 is how ME Rodgers shows up at the crime scenes and examines the bodies there, she rarely did that in previous seasons of CI or on the Mothership, an assistant ME/CSU person would be at the scene and Rodgers would perform the autopsy at the morgue and the detectives would go and see her there. In season 9 of CI, and even some in season 8, she started showing up at the crime scenes in person. Has anyone else noticed this or thought it was weird? And in season 10 of CI, things we’re back to normal with Rodgers just being in the morgue.

Just something that’s somewhat odd that I’ve noticed.

[WendyCR72]

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Watching season 9 today, and one thing I’ve noticed that’s weird in season 9 is how ME Rodgers shows up at the crime scenes and examines the bodies there, she rarely did that in previous seasons of CI or on the Mothership, an assistant ME/CSU person would be at the scene and Rodgers would perform the autopsy at the morgue and the detectives would go and see her there. In season 9 of CI, and even some in season 8, she started showing up at the crime scenes in person. Has anyone else noticed this or thought it was weird? And in season 10 of CI, things we’re back to normal with Rodgers just being in the morgue.

Just something that’s somewhat odd that I’ve noticed.

Maybe Leslie Hendrix wanted more to do. Either way, I saw MEs on other cop shows at the scene, so it didn't seem so odd to me. Actually, now that you mention it, I thought it was a nice change of pace, seeing her out of that dark morgue. (I liked one scene in S8 in "Lady's Man" when she told G/E someone did some nasty surgery on Boz Burnham. I think all three did well with the innuendo, including VDO/KE when talking about where his penis was, complete with Bobby saying it may be a seagull snack. LOL!) I guess the "p" word was verboten back in 2008?!

[Sigmagirl]

I had noticed it. I thought it was something that had drifted over from one of the other L&Os. I like it; I’ll take all the Rodgers I can get. I would have liked her to have stepped right in to take Carver’s time.

[Xeliou66]

I just thought it was weird seeing Rodgers suddenly showing up at every crime scene. I love ME Rodgers and the more of her the better I agree, I just thought it was somewhat odd, and then in season 10 she’s back to just being in the morgue. ME Rodgers had many great lines, and she always added a spark to the ME scenes

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Sigmagirl said:

I had noticed it. I thought it was something that had drifted over from one of the other L&Os. I like it; I’ll take all the Rodgers I can get. I would have liked her to have stepped right in to take Carver’s time.

Said this many times, but I think Leslie Hendrix/Liz Rodgers was almost an unofficial full cast member/character on this show. Yes, she regularly popped up on Original Recipe to snark with Lennie (always a treat, that!), but this show even went to the trouble of giving her a quasi-romance with Ross. (Poor woman. LOL!) She also had a role in the whole thing with Bobby and Mark Ford Brady.

I'm glad this show gave Rodgers her due, so to speak. I think she made a few appearances on SVU early on, so she did the trifecta. But then that branch got its own ME in Warner. Maybe all three shows were too much for Ms. Hendrix.

Back to CI, I thought she may have had something else brewing when she fired that morgue worker in "Blasters" in S6, but that went nowhere. She really did rip him a new one (rightfully!), though!

[Xeliou66]

13 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Said this many times, but I think Leslie Hendrix/Liz Rodgers was almost an unofficial full cast member/character on this show. Yes, she regularly popped up on Original Recipe to snark with Lennie (always a treat, that!), but this show even went to the trouble of giving her a quasi-romance with Ross. (Poor woman. LOL!) She also had a role in the whole thing with Bobby and Mark Ford Brady.

I'm glad this show gave Rodgers her due, so to speak. I think she made a few appearances on SVU early on, so she did the trifecta. But then that branch got its own ME in Warner. Maybe all three shows were too much for Ms. Hendrix.

Back to CI, I thought she may have had something else brewing when she fired that morgue worker in "Blasters" in S6, but that went nowhere. She really did rip him a new one (rightfully!), though!

I’m glad CI gave Rodgers stuff to do as well, but I hated the Rodgers/Ross hints of romance, Ross was such a loathsome douche I hated seeing Rodgers with him. 

Rodgers had many good moments on both the Mothership and CI, one of my favorite Rodgers moments on CI was when she was singing opera in the morgue in Dramma Giocoso and Logan quips “I never thought I would envy the dead!!” and then later in the episode when she mentions going to the opera with Briscoe, I loved that mention of Lennie. 

[WendyCR72]

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I’m glad CI gave Rodgers stuff to do as well, but I hated the Rodgers/Ross hints of romance, Ross was such a loathsome douche I hated seeing Rodgers with him. 

Why do you think I put "poor woman!" after mentioning that?  😉

And yeah, I liked the reference to Lennie taking Rodgers to the opera. Funny, I don't picture Lennie as an opera kind of guy, but I guess he did it to make Rodgers happy then. Awww.

[Xeliou66]

14 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Why do you think I put "poor woman!" after mentioning that?  😉

And yeah, I liked the reference to Lennie taking Rodgers to the opera. Funny, I don't picture Lennie as an opera kind of guy, but I guess he did it to make Rodgers happy then. Awww.

 Yeah I don’t know what the writers were thinking with the Rodgers/Ross pairing. 

I loved the mention of Briscoe and Rodgers going to the opera, nice to know that they went out together at least once outside of work, and I liked that they mentioned Lennie on CI, nice continuity.

[WendyCR72]

On 9/6/2019 at 7:15 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I loved the mention of Briscoe and Rodgers going to the opera, nice to know that they went out together at least once outside of work, and I liked that they mentioned Lennie on CI, nice continuity.

While it was a treat seeing him in S1, I wish Jerry Orbach's health remained well so he could have dropped in again. I'm sure Rodgers would have been glad to spar with him, or Logan happy to see his old partner. Or even helping Goren/Eames again.

Lennie made everything better!

[Xeliou66]

On 9/8/2019 at 12:43 AM, WendyCR72 said:

While it was a treat seeing him in S1, I wish Jerry Orbach's health remained well so he could have dropped in again. I'm sure Rodgers would have been glad to spar with him, or Logan happy to see his old partner. Or even helping Goren/Eames again.

Lennie made everything better!

Like I’ve said before, I really wished the franchises had crossed over more often. It was awesome seeing Briscoe/Green with Goren/Eames in Poison (4 of my favorite detectives in one scene!!) and I wish they had been back on, I wish that McCoy had appeared at some point on CI, I wish that the DA had been on in more than 2 episodes, and I wish the psych experts had appeared more, Skoda appeared in Crazy and in a deleted scene in Tomorrow and Olivet appeared in To the Bone, but I can think of numerous episodes in which the insights of a psych expert would’ve added a lot to the storyline.

The L&O franchise had so many great characters, it’s a shame they didn’t crossover more, it was always cool to see the characters interact when they did crossover. 

Edited September 10, 2019 by Xeliou66

[GHScorpiosRule]

So ION is skipping the first three episodes of Season five and starting with Episode 4 next week. I’m really trying to understand the thinking/logic for why ION AND Sundance are jumping and hopping around. It’s stupid.

But at least “In the Wee Small Hours” is airing!

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

But at least “In the Wee Small Hours” is airing!

Definite plus. As I said, I'm a geek. I dig the special opening credits, and I like how both detective teams interacted.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Well I feel like a moron! Turns out ION airs on two nights, so the last of season 4 aired tonight and the first three of Season five.  So “My Good Name” wasn’t the season finale. It was “False-Hearted Judges” a semi ripoff of the DC Sniper shooters. I lived and survived that period of terror and one of the victims had been a colleague of my mother’s. It was a scary time.

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Well I feel like a moron! Turns out ION airs on two nights, so the last of season 4 aired tonight and the first three of Season five.  So “My Good Name” wasn’t the season finale. It was “False-Hearted Judges” a semi ripoff of the DC Sniper shooters. I lived and survived that period of terror and one of the victims had been a colleague of my mother’s. It was a scary time.

I lived nowhere near there but remember that well. That was scary. But the angle in the episode version with the young apprentice being the guy's fake son or whatever seemed a bit weird, but I guess the show had to do a different angle there, so...

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I lived nowhere near there but remember that well. That was scary. But the angle in the episode version with the young apprentice being the guy's fake son or whatever seemed a bit weird, but I guess the show had to do a different angle there, so...

Well, all the "ripped from the headlines!" have to have a different angle. I don't think I've ever watched one that was EXACTLY like the story this show or the mothership took from the headlines. Just like "Subterranean Home Boy Blues" from the Mothership was clearly based on Bernard Goetz, but they had the perp be a woman who had been previously assaulted.

But yes, the shootings were so random, no one knew who would be next. So I happily complied every time a cop stopped me while I was driving to work, to search my trunk/car while they were at large. And since I lived it, nothing but 🙄🙄 at the movie starring Charles Roc.

[WendyCR72]

I'm thinking the last episode WE Aired today from S1, "Tuxedo Hill", CLEARLY had to be about Bernie Madoff. I think almost all dramas back in the early 2000s covered that mess.

Or more - in this case - a mix of Madoff and Enron.

Either way, the actor playing Jack Crawley did smarm perfectly.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

I'm thinking the last episode WE Aired today from S1, "Tuxedo Hill", CLEARLY had to be about Bernie Madoff. I think almost all dramas back in the early 2000s covered that mess.

Or more - in this case - a mix of Madoff and Enron.

Either way, the actor playing Jack Crawley did smarm perfectly.

Bernie Madoff hadn’t been exposed yet when Tuxedo Hill aired. I think it was ripped from the headlines regarding Enron. 

Jack Crawley was incredibly smug and unlikable. Tuxedo Hill was interesting in how the murder wasn’t discovered at the start of the episode, but by Goren and Eames during their investigation of what happened to Elizabeth. I wonder if Carver lost money in the Tuxedo Hill scam, with his line about calling his broker at the end. 

[Sigmagirl]

In "Semi-Professional" Ron Carver joins Goren in tricking Judge Sabatelli into admitting that he was behind the murder of rival Judge Blakemore’s clerk/girlfriend (although Sabatelli paid Arnie only to retrieve her laptop; he killed her as a value-added bonus). Carver sets up Sabatelli by telling him he’s thinking of having a member of the judicial review committee observe the interrogation, knowing that Sabatelli will be, in Bobby’s words, pissing himself at the prospect of seeing Blakemore’s downfall. Then Goren and Carver lay the trap and Sabatelli jumps right in and incriminates himself.

But in "Best Defense," they figure out that Peter Bonham is framing his wife and trap hm with the phone calls his wife did or did not receive on a Sunday drive in Connecticut, but they keep the ploy from Carver because Bonham "might find out." They don’t trust him to help this time, and Carver gets all honked off again even though Eames is the senior partner and Deakins agreed to the idea. 

Why do I spend my time thinking about this stuff?

Edited September 15, 2019 by Sigmagirl

[Chaos Theory]

Season 1 and 2 have been replaying (I forget which network) and They are some of the best cases because these are pre edge of crazy Goren.  Yes Eames could have been used more but she had some good stuff as well.   I really loved her in Jones and her quiet stoicism is Homo Homini Lupus.   Whatever channel I am watching has just started season two... hi Nichole Wallace, But from what I remember season 2 has some of the best episodes.

Edited September 14, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[Xeliou66]

21 hours ago, Sigmagirl said:

In "Semi-Professional" Ron Carver joins Goren in tricking Judge Sabatelli into admitting that he was behind the murder of rival Judge Blakemore’s clerk/girlfriend (although Sabatelli paid Arnie only to retrieve her laptop; he killed her as a value-added bonus). Carver sets up Sabatelli by telling him he’s thinking of having a member of the judicial review committee observe the interrogation, knowing that Sabatelli will be, in Bobby’s words, pissing himself at the prospect of seeing Blakemore’s downfall. Then Goren and Carver lay the trap and Sabatelli Jim’s right in and incriminates himself.

But in "Best Defense," they figure out that Peter Bonham is framing his wife and trap hm with the phone calls his wife did or did not receive on a Sunday drive in Connecticut, but they keep the ploy from Carver because Bonham "might find out." They don’t trust him to help this time, and Carver gets all honked off again even though Eames is the senior partner and Deakins agreed to the idea. 

Why do I spend my time thinking about this stuff?

I think the difference was that Carver worked directly with Peter Bonham, he didn’t work directly with Sabatelli. I don’t think it was that they didn’t trust Carver, I think they didn’t want to risk blowing their chance to expose Bonham in case he found out as he worked in the same office as Carver. 

[WendyCR72]

On 9/13/2019 at 3:33 PM, Sigmagirl said:

In "Semi-Professional" Ron Carver joins Goren in tricking Judge Sabatelli into admitting that he was behind the murder of rival Judge Blakemore’s clerk/girlfriend (although Sabatelli paid Arnie only to retrieve her laptop; he killed her as a value-added bonus). Carver sets up Sabatelli by telling him he’s thinking of having a member of the judicial review committee observe the interrogation, knowing that Sabatelli will be, in Bobby’s words, pissing himself at the prospect of seeing Blakemore’s downfall. Then Goren and Carver lay the trap and Sabatelli Jim’s right in and incriminates himself.

But in "Best Defense," they figure out that Peter Bonham is framing his wife and trap hm with the phone calls his wife did or did not receive on a Sunday drive in Connecticut, but they keep the ploy from Carver because Bonham "might find out." They don’t trust him to help this time, and Carver gets all honked off again even though Eames is the senior partner and Deakins agreed to the idea. 

Why do I spend my time thinking about this stuff?

But I can definitely see why the plan was kept from Carver in "Best Defense". In the very beginning of the episode, Carver was having lunch with Peter Bonham. Sure, it may be professional. But later in the episode, he was blathering about not wanting to "embarrass" the Bonhams. Seems to me there was a question of his objectivity.

But I agree, with Deakins in on it, Carver should just suck it up. The attitude he gave seemed out of bounds.

[WendyCR72]

If anyone watches the MyNetwork repeats of the show, starting next week, the show moves back to Thursday evening instead of Monday evening.

[Chaos Theory]

Two of my favorite episodes or as I like to call them: The one with Brent Spinner and the one with Stephen Colbert.