Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[Xeliou66]

On 10/11/2017 at 6:14 PM, WendyCR72 said:

And as we know, it was the first of many with a church/religious theme. For whatever reason, CI seemed to love that theme. I also liked the very beginning of this one, when Goren jumped on the pew using another's cop's head to hang on to (LOL!) to explain what picture angle he wanted.

What strikes me at the end, though, was how Eames challenges Goren in trying to spare Melanie Grasso while she was all about rules/the case. In later seasons, she seemed often to come around to his way of thinking. She seemed much more "career family cop" early on and seemed to soften with the partnership. Not saying that's bad. Just that Alex seemed more "hard" at the show's beginning.

Yeah that scene at the start was classic Goren, I remember hearing that VDO came up with that on his own, as he did with a lot of Goren's unique mannerisms. 

As far as Eames', I'm not sure if I agree with you. She always seemed willing to challenge Goren and question his theories and methods, I think Eames was still warming to his odd style in season 1, don't believe they had been partners for too long before the show started but overall I didn't see much of a difference in Eames in season 1, she always was a very consistent character IMO, compared to Goren especially. 

[WendyCR72]

Watching CI on ION late night. "Palimpsest" still makes not a lick of sense. Just saying.

[cooksdelight]

I hate the Nichols season with the heat of a thousand suns.

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

I hate the Nichols season with the heat of a thousand suns.

Oh, ditto. But I couldn't sleep and not much else was on. Figures it would be THAT episode, though. At least ION will start S10 in late night soon...

[Maherjunkie]

SOON there will be Logan Sundays on ION.  AHHh......

 

As opposed to Logan Sundaes, which are even sweeter...

[Xeliou66]

22 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Oh, ditto. But I couldn't sleep and not much else was on. Figures it would be THAT episode, though. At least ION will start S10 in late night soon...

Palimpsest was arguably the stupidest episode in CI history. It made no sense and it was more like a script from lousy wannabe writer of golden age detective fiction than a CI episode. I still don't understand it exactly, and it was made even more confusing by the scenes of Nichols in London with a mystery woman. 

I have to admit I didn't hate season 9 as much as some, I did miss Goren/Eames and it was boring at times, but at least there wasn't personal crap like in 6-7, a lot of episodes from those years I find unwatchable because of the over the top soapyness. I liked how in season 9 the cases became more in depth and much darker, in 6-7 the cases weren't complex and didn't have the psychology and dark motives the show was known for, I appreciated season 9 returning to that with episodes such as True Legacy, Love Sick, Gods and Insects, Abel and Willing, Three in One etc.

A problem with season 9 was how dull both Stevens and Callas were. Stevens was incredibly stiff and wooden and added nothing to the show while Callas was barely on screen and had no personality. I always liked Nichols but he never had a good supporting cast around him. 

I'm really glad we got season 10 to give the show a proper send off with 8 strong episodes, the original departure of Goren and Eames was highly unsatisfactory, I'm glad they were able to come back. 

[wknt3]

On 10/17/2017 at 3:14 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Oh, ditto. But I couldn't sleep and not much else was on. Figures it would be THAT episode, though. At least ION will start S10 in late night soon...

WE is airing Season 1 overnight (based on what was on my DVR this morning). Some much better episodes than "Palimpsest" including "Poison" which crossed over with the mothership and featured probably the greatest collection of 4 detective characters in one scene ever in the history of the franchise (Goren, Eames, Briscoe, and Green.) I say probably only because there is a case to be made for the classic seasons of SVU (Benson, Stabler, Munch, and Fin) and because I don't have a good enough memory to recall if any of the crossovers with HLOTS had a scene without the weak link of Curtis. I remember "Charm City" had Van Buren and Curtis with Pembleton and Bayliss in the squadroom. If it was Briscoe instead that would be hard to beat indeed.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, wknt3 said:

WE is airing Season 1 overnight (based on what was on my DVR this morning). Some much better episodes than "Palimpsest" including "Poison" which crossed over with the mothership and featured probably the greatest collection of 4 detective characters in one scene ever in the history of the franchise (Goren, Eames, Briscoe, and Green.) I say probably only because there is a case to be made for the classic seasons of SVU (Benson, Stabler, Munch, and Fin) and because I don't have a good enough memory to recall if any of the crossovers with HLOTS had a scene without the weak link of Curtis. I remember "Charm City" had Van Buren and Curtis with Pembleton and Bayliss in the squadroom. If it was Briscoe instead that would be hard to beat indeed.

Yeah, I remembered WE had S1 after that. So I switched back and forth between "Rispetto" om ION and "The Good Doctor" on WE early this morning. (I work some odd hours, so sometimes, I'm up.)

Thank goodness for some good episodes!

And I love "Poison" if just for the Goren/Eames/Briscoe/Greene scene. I also watched HLOTS and agree with everything else you said!

As for ION, it has the show on with the big Sunday marathon and now all other nights of the week from 1:00 a.m. to 3:00 a.m., so on some nights, as it was the other night, it airs against itself on WE and USA.

[Xeliou66]

I love Poison as well, terrific episode. The scene with Briscoe/Green and Goren/Eames is one of my favorites, 4 of my favorite L&O detectives together, loved the way Goren suggested to Briscoe/Green to leak the story. I wish that Briscoe and Green had been involved more in the investigation, I would've liked to have seen them work together with Goren/Eames more. I wish CI had done more crossover in general, SVU and L&O did more than CI, after season 1 we didn't get many crossover appearances with the exception of Branch in season 5 and then Eames appearing twice on SVU. 

Another thing I liked about Poison was that every character had a lot of good scenes including Carver and Deakins. Fascinating case as well and it was very interesting at the end how they manipulated Trudy in order to get proof against her after her mother wouldn't cooperate. 

[wknt3]

14 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I love Poison as well, terrific episode. The scene with Briscoe/Green and Goren/Eames is one of my favorites, 4 of my favorite L&O detectives together, loved the way Goren suggested to Briscoe/Green to leak the story. I wish that Briscoe and Green had been involved more in the investigation, I would've liked to have seen them work together with Goren/Eames more. I wish CI had done more crossover in general, SVU and L&O did more than CI, after season 1 we didn't get many crossover appearances with the exception of Branch in season 5 and then Eames appearing twice on SVU. 

Another thing I liked about Poison was that every character had a lot of good scenes including Carver and Deakins. Fascinating case as well and it was very interesting at the end how they manipulated Trudy in order to get proof against her after her mother wouldn't cooperate. 

What I've always really liked about the episode was the depiction of profiling. Very realistic and well done. It was nice to see it as drawing conclusions about specific behavior based on relevant and specific information instead of suddenly understanding everything about all aspects of the perp's personality based on some small tidbit of info which we see too much of on TV (CI's later seasons or Criminal Minds for instance) and the objections/concerns were also reasonable instead of just denying the obvious for the sake of drama. I wish they had been able to maintain that throughout the season and maintained the distinction between profiling and hunches/deductions.

[WendyCR72]

So, ION still has a shred of its wholesome PAX channel roots. The line "You prick!" from Roger the dramaturg (love how G/E also kinda laughed at that) was cut from ION's airing of "Icarus" moments ago. First time I've seen that cut.

[Sigmagirl]

They also cut Goren’s line about Lisa Voight “pissing all over herself with excitement” at Dr. Kelmer’s attentions. I guess “pissing” is just as bad as “prick.”

[WendyCR72]

Yeah, "pissing" is an ION no-no, since it was also cut from "Semi-Professional" in S1 when Goren read to Arnie from the judge's book about a character based on Arnie "pissing himself" when he was 17. As I said, a bit of a PAX holdover thing or something, I guess!

[Xeliou66]

That's weird, I've never noticed ION censoring anything. Unlike WE and Sundance they've never censored stuff from the Mothership. I get so fed up with the censorship, L&O isn't a Disney show, it deals with controversial stuff, so why are they censoring profanity? It's incredibly stupid. 

[Sigmagirl]

Agreed. It probably depends on who owns ION. They don’t know the difference between profanity, obscenity, and vulgarity, so they just go with the lowest common denominator. 

[WendyCR72]

14 hours ago, Sigmagirl said:

Agreed. It probably depends on who owns ION. They don’t know the difference between profanity, obscenity, and vulgarity, so they just go with the lowest common denominator. 

Well, to put it in context, ION, as I said, sprung up from the defunct PAX channel. And I believe NBC now owns a percentage. But the original owners were faith based. I recall reading one of them died just a few years back. The channel used to show Touched By An Angel and other such family fare. But I'm guessing the ratings weren't good since it was re-branded and in came procedurals.

All I can figure is the non-NBC owners may still have input with the language. Which is still odd since the channel also shows Criminal Minds which is as gruesome as they come. But if anyone watches ION's late-night CI airings, you also see commercials from a site called Values.com, so it's like it's two channels in one now.

[WendyCR72]

Ah, Bobby and Arnie sparring in the interrogation room in "Semi Professional" on MyNetwork now. I think Bobby wanted revenge for Arnie's doppelganger pushing his doppelganger on the subway tracks, ensuring certain death! (Homicide: Life On The Streets reference to their shared episode!)

[WendyCR72]

"Maledictus" from S1 is on WE now. Kenny was creepy. Not the cross dressing, per se, but he treats his sister almost like a spouse and it's just weird, man.

[shapeshifter]

7.12, "Contract" (2008), just aired on ION. After a caper of red herrings, the mastermind of the murder turned out to be a background character named Barry Freeburg—a studio exec and casting couch sleaze played by the real-life sweetheart, Jeff Garlin, who coincidentally happens to physically resemble Harvey Weinstein. FWIW, the casting for the episode—as well as 67 other L&O CI episodes—is credited to Kimberly Hope (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1661736/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr20).

[Xeliou66]

Very interesting in hindsight, you can definitely see the similarities between him and Weinstein. I wonder if the episode was trying to take a shot at Weinstein specifically or just Hollywood executive predator scum in general? 

[WendyCR72]

I really do enjoy "Vanishing Act" (airing now). I recall reading once where VDO said he'd have been a street magician if not an actor, and he was clearly having fun here and was actually engaged with the case/material.

Also cool to see Christopher Lloyd as the washed-up drunk mentor to the victim and the perp.

[Xeliou66]

Vanishing Act was good, it felt more like an earlier season episode with the complex investigation, Goren had his mojo in that one, during a time in which he constantly seemed tired and uninterested and lacked the spark he had in earlier seasons. He definitely enjoyed all the magic stuff. Probably the best Goren/Eames episode of season 7.

[WendyCR72]

Bobby trolling Faith Yancy (Dick Wolf's answer to Nancy Grace) on the set of her show in "Lady's Man" will never not be a great scene.

[Xeliou66]

Some outstanding season 2 episodes on WE tonight, just saw Suite Sorrow, that was one of the most complex CI episodes but very good. I always found it a bizarre twist that the manipulative father was having an affair with the daughter's fiancé, since they never even had a scene together in the episode.  I liked the appearance of defense attorney Peter Behrens, who was a recurring lawyer on the mothership, other than the noticeable exception of ME Rodgers, CI didn't use recurring characters from the franchise as much as other shows did. 

Now See Me is on, one of my favorites from season 2. One of the few episodes where I felt sympathy for both the victim and the murderer, the schizophrenic eye doctor was a very sympathetic perp. I liked the more extensive use of Deakins and Carver in that episode, and I thought the final confrontation between Goren and the doctor was very well done. 

[WendyCR72]

I think I asked this before, but...

"Lady's Man" was on USA in the early morning, and while I did like the episode (one of the better ones from S8, IMO!), I still am surprised none of the writers saw the pretty substantial hole in the plot. Yes, Mulrooney blamed Eames for his career failure. Fine. But in order to exact his revenge, he somehow managed to make it into her home more than once (one time even glancing at her wedding photo!) including pawing around her underthings, spraying perfume (because Mulrooney makes a note to smell his wrist), and you mean to tell me that Alex Eames, Career Cop, only noticed her missing shirt? She didn't notice her drawer in disarray or, just maybe, her photo not being exactly where it was or perfume still in the air?

Like I said, I do like the episode, but it makes Eames look dumb, which she wasn't, and it was a pretty big hole.

[WendyCR72]

13 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Now See Me is on, one of my favorites from season 2. One of the few episodes where I felt sympathy for both the victim and the murderer, the schizophrenic eye doctor was a very sympathetic perp. I liked the more extensive use of Deakins and Carver in that episode, and I thought the final confrontation between Goren and the doctor was very well done. 

"See Me", I liked. The case and the perp were good, but I also liked that it gave insight into Goren and his mom without beating the audience over the head with it.

As for "Suite Sorrow", I did like the scene with Alex and that woman in the waiting room, some comedy with the case, and it was nice to see Hal Linden play a sleazy guy, but man, I always end up wanting to smack Julie, and I doubt that was the show's intention!

[WendyCR72]

WE is now airing the beginning of S4. Between wacky Nelda Carson in the premiere, "Semi-Detached" (airing now),  Spencer Farnell in "The Posthumous Collection" (airing next), and John Tagman in "Want" (airing later), looking at these together, S4 started off rather creepily, didn't it?

[WendyCR72]

WE is showing "Art". The episode where a curator from a Troy, NY museum is killed. I live near the real Troy. And yeah...no.  :-P College town, some bars, restaurants. But we dissected this before. Still makes me laugh, though.

And VDO's German (or facsimile thereof) sounded a lot better than his trying to speak Chinese in Daredevil. A for effort, though, I guess!

[Xeliou66]

On 11/12/2017 at 3:47 PM, WendyCR72 said:

"See Me", I liked. The case and the perp were good, but I also liked that it gave insight into Goren and his mom without beating the audience over the head with it.

As for "Suite Sorrow", I did like the scene with Alex and that woman in the waiting room, some comedy with the case, and it was nice to see Hal Linden play a sleazy guy, but man, I always end up wanting to smack Julie, and I doubt that was the show's intention!

See Me was an outstanding episode I thought, and I liked how they gave some insight into Goren's personal situation without it becoming a soap opera or overshadowing the case, Rene Balcer was always very good at this while Warren Leight turned the show into a pathetic melodramatic soap opera. I felt sympathy for the victim, his wife ( especially losing her husband and mother in the same week ), the mentally ill brother in law of the victim and the rest of the Garcia House residents, and even the killer, who thought he was doing good works. I found the Garcia's more unsympathetic than the eye doctor. I liked the more extensive use of Carver and Deakins as well, such as Carver questioning the residents of Garcia house with Goren and Eames and Deakins joining the detectives when they talked to the victim's brother in law. Carver and Deakins were great characters who weren't used enough. 

Suite Sorrow had no likable characters, but I liked it for a variety of reasons, I liked the humor of the episode, I liked how the investigation unfolded and I liked the use of Peter Behrens, any of the crossover appearances from both main or recurring characters is nice, and like I say, CI didn't use many aside from Rodgers. 

3 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

WE is showing "Art". The episode where a curator from a Troy, NY museum is killed. I live near the real Troy. And yeah...no.  :-P College town, some bars, restaurants. But we dissected this before. Still makes me laugh, though.

And VDO's German (or facsimile thereof) sounded a lot better than his trying to speak Chinese in Daredevil. A for effort, though, I guess!

So no art museum in Troy I guess? Always interesting to see how accurately places outside NYC are depicted by L&O. 

[WendyCR72]

22 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

So no art museum in Troy I guess?

 

No, but the New York State Museum is in Albany. Would have been better off saying the curator is from there. Hee. I did like it when Jerry Orbach/Lennie once mispronounced my hometown in an episode, though.

[WendyCR72]

The Sunday marathons are on hiatus on ION for holiday movies, but it is still shown on ION in the early mornings from 1 to 3 a.m. every night except early Monday, as that is Sunday holiday holdovers. (Still also shown on WE in the usual W-Th marathons during the day and late night [early W and Th mornings] and on early Monday morning [middle of the night] blocks on USA, too.)

Right now on ION, it is on S2. Starting this coming week, though, it appears the seasons will be spread out. Instead of two episodes from S2, the first will be from S2, the next from S3...except for Tuesday, which is oddly showing a S2 episode, then the S10 finale. After that, it'll be S2 and 3. Like I said, a bit weird.

[pezevenk]

I am looking for the episode where the perpetrator hides in the folded bed's mechanism.

I am not sure it was CRIMINAL INTENT episode. Probably in original Law and Order.

I doubt  they have had  put Goren in same situation twice. You know, the other time was when he revealed the availability of the magician inside some small kinder house in episode " Vanishing Act".

This couldn't be episode with Zack Nichols, this kind of behaviour doesn't suits him.

I am  serching for this episode when the detectives enters the home and they ask the woman presented for her son or grandson. She said he is not available, but then the detective realized something wrong and he unfolded the bed where the guy was hidden.

I will be pleased if you are able to identify this episode.

Thanks

[WendyCR72]

On 11/25/2017 at 10:32 PM, pezevenk said:

I am looking for the episode where the perpetrator hides in the folded bed's mechanism.

I am not sure it was CRIMINAL INTENT episode. Probably in original Law and Order.

I doubt  they have had  put Goren in same situation twice. You know, the other time was when he revealed the availability of the magician inside some small kinder house in episode " Vanishing Act".

This couldn't be episode with Zack Nichols, this kind of behaviour doesn't suits him.

I am  serching for this episode when the detectives enters the home and they ask the woman presented for her son or grandson. She said he is not available, but then the detective realized something wrong and he unfolded the bed where the guy was hidden.

I will be pleased if you are able to identify this episode.

Thanks

I believe this scenario may have been in the Season 4 episode, "The Unblinking Eye". If I recall, the guy Goren and Eames were looking for (as they believed he may have been the shooter) was hiding in a foldaway couch. (He wasn't the shooter but swallowed the engagement ring that was supposedly for the victim.)

This was also the episode with the Matt Damon voice cameo.

[pezevenk]

Iyeeees, it's there..thank you!

I was thinking it might be L and O Lupo and Bernard

[WendyCR72]

So listings for the next couple weeks are out and it looks like yet another network has picked up late-night CI repeats. Personally, I think it is an error, but we'll see. It claims Oxygen will be airing the show starting on the early morning of 09/26 from 3 to 6 a.m. ET, same for 09/27, then listed again the following week on 10/03 and 10/04, same time.

[WendyCR72]

Finally found Oxygen's site. Not an error, after all. Huh. (To be fair, this show has been listed on and off the last few years every so often in listings and would turn out to be wrong.)

It seems to be starting, logically, from the beginning.

[FormerMod-a1]

Oxygen switched to a true crime, and crime related shows, focus a while ago so this fits in with that.

[WendyCR72]

On 9/20/2018 at 8:48 AM, aquarian1 said:

Oxygen switched to a true crime, and crime related shows, focus a while ago so this fits in with that.

Oh, right. Thought I heard or read that. ("Snapped" is a guilty pleasure, gotta say.)

[WendyCR72]

WE is playing with its scheduling, as usual. According to this week's listings, the show will air all day Thursday and Friday.

[WendyCR72]

On 10/14/2018 at 6:53 PM, WendyCR72 said:

WE is playing with its scheduling, as usual. According to this week's listings, the show will air all day Thursday and Friday.

Quoting my own post, as  it seems the Thursday and Friday deal is happening again. Must be (semi-)permanent? (I put in the "semi-" as it is WE with the ever-changing schedule.) Seems like Thursdays are early seasons and Friday is S5/soon to go into S6.

[Maherjunkie]

My hair color is more permanent.

[WendyCR72]

On 10/24/2018 at 11:51 PM, Maherjunkie said:

My hair color is more permanent.

Hee. Probably. But, for now, that is what WE is doing. Give it another month or two 'til Schedule Roulette begins again!

[WendyCR72]

Season 6 is airing today. And "Siren Song" is on. With Ray Wasniewski. I still hate the part where the mom of the freaking victim seemed to write her off. I know we talked about it before, but man. And the younger sister, Emily, seemed more like 10 than 13.

And Brooke Shields still seemed hammy from where I sit!

[Sigmagirl]

That whole family. I was sorry about the mom’s illness, and I understand she needed to focus on her treatment, but she just totally abandoned her daughter. I don’t think Brooke did such a bad job, but her role wasn’t very big considering she was the big guest star.

It always bothered me that after Ray shot himself in “Siren Call,” just a few episodes later in “Albatross” they go to arrest Maureen Pagolis who’s sitting in her bathrobe and Eames offers to go with her while she gets dressed and she declines and they just let her go on up. Not only could she have gone out a back window but she could easily have shot herself. Don’t you people learn anything?

[WendyCR72]

On 11/2/2018 at 8:30 PM, Sigmagirl said:

That whole family. I was sorry about the mom’s illness, and I understand she needed to focus on her treatment, but she just totally abandoned her daughter. I don’t think Brooke did such a bad job, but her role wasn’t very big considering she was the big guest star.

It always bothered me that after Ray shot himself in “Siren Call,” just a few episodes later in “Albatross” they go to arrest Maureen Pagolis who’s sitting in her bathrobe and Eames offers to go with her while she gets dressed and she declines and they just let her go on up. Not only could she have gone out a back window but she could easily have shot herself. Don’t you people learn anything?

I liked "Albatross" because it was nice seeing Eames off kilter, for once. This is meant not as a criticism, but she always seemed like the "stable/by the book" partner, and it was sort of refreshing to see some bias emerge, even if wrong. In the end, I do admire that she put aside her feelings where Margolis was concerned and did her job.

[WendyCR72]

Ironically, "Albatross" is airing today (11/09) at 4:00 p.m. ET. Xander Berkeley is perfect as the slimy husband, too.

[WendyCR72]

So once Oxygen is done with Season 2, the listings say it's starting...Season 6. Taking a page out of USA Network's old strategy, I guess.

[WendyCR72]

You'd think the amount of times these episodes have aired, everything under the sun has been dissected. But riddle me this, if you will! (Surprised it never occurred to me before now!)

"Amends" aired today during the WE Friday marathon and, as everyone knows, a doctor ended up being the murderer of Eames' husband. Okay. It was also mentioned the murder happened nine years prior. Okay.

Well, the description of the doc/shooter at the time made it sound like this guy was a really young kid following people around way back when. So, let's assume he was 13/14. You mean to tell me that he not only finished college AND med school in 9 years, but is already a surgeon?!

That med school must have had one hell of an accelerated program, unless I missed some vital detail, which I doubt.

As an aside, nice to see Carlos Leon in his third show appearance in this episode. And Florencia Lozano, the actress who played the widow of Eames' husband's partner also appeared in S3 as an art dealer suspected of having an affair with the victim's father in "The Gift".

[Sigmagirl]

Well, he went to med school out of country. So maybe it was not as stringent as, say, a degree from Hudson. ?

[Maherjunkie]

On 11/16/2018 at 6:51 PM, WendyCR72 said:

 

As an aside, nice to see Carlos Leon in his third show appearance in this episode. And Florencia Lozano, the actress who played the widow of Eames' husband's partner also appeared in S3 as an art dealer suspected of having an affair with the victim's father in "The Gift".

Where was he in Amends?