The Defenders - General Discussion

[Guest]

This topic replaces the old The Defenders forum which has been vaulted at the location below:  http://forums.previously.tv/forum/2596-the-defenders-v/

[Hanahope]

Started this series now.  It will be nice to see them all work together.  Its sure a rough beginning.

So I guess if its a normal human who gets the rebirth process, they retain their memories, but not a 'black sky'?  How is a 'black sky' born/discovered?

Sigourney Weaver makes a great villian.  I guess they don't have time to drain more people to rebirth her?  Why not?  she's known about her illness for quite some time, it appears.

Its kindof funny seeing Mme. Gao be so subserviant to Weaver.  I wonder what Weaver thought happened to Gao while she was captured by Danny/Hand?  Was the other Hand working with Weaver too?  Or just Gao's Hand?

[Hanahope]

Well, a lot more answers after 4 episodes.

Weaver already got the rebirth, she's just been alive so damn long her body is finally breaking down.  So....not really immortal?

I presume the Hand wants the IF so he can knock down the mysterious wall?  One still wonders what the very deep hole from DD is for.

Clearly K'un Lun doesn't train their people with brain knowledge, just how to fight.  Bad idea.  

And given how easy it is to overwhelm Danny, could he really have fought them all off at K'un Lun' s pass?

Will Matt get through to Elektra?  I really can't tell what she's thinking, if she is still buying the Hand's bullshit, or just playing along.

[wrlord]

Why on Earth was Elektra buried in a Jewish cemetery?

[Hanahope]

Well, it went fast.  OTOH, I'm not surprised Matt lived, that dragon skeleton has resisted a lot of stress for eons, so yeah, one could survive a building crumbling on them by taking cover under the skeleton.  but one does wonder how whoever got Matt out (I presume Elektra).  I'm sure Mme. Gao survived too.

I guess I don't get why Elektra is all so concered with getting "the substance"?  Does she think she'll die in a year?    she only died because she went up against the Hand.  Plus, doesn't she only need it if its a real 'bad' death?  Harold Meachum 'died' twice after being given the substance, and he came back both times (yeah, a little worse soulwise, but I don't think Elektra cares about that) without extra doses of "the substance."  So not really sure why there was such a rush for it, other than Sigourney Weaver's body was falling apart after a millenia.  

And didn't Elektra actually sacrifice herself for Matt?  I kept waiting for Matt to tell her that.

I didn't think Danny was that much of an idiot in IF, but he sure was in this series.  Letting Elektra bait him like that was laughable.

Overall, though, I liked seeing the four together.

[Affogato]

If Matt survived Elektra could have survived.

I really don't understand the underpinnings of the story. Ok, this has happened before, Pompeii was mentioned. So is this because dragons live near their food supplies (cities) and die there and get buried over the centuries? Or did the magic city bury the dragon remains all over the world, with the magic 'key'? Because why was the magic lock in new york? Why did they have to dig the hole and did the 'dome shape' happen when the remains were teleported there? I just don't get it.

The Dark Sky is the only thing that can kidnap an ironfist? Is that it? Because that doesn't seem to make sense.

Some really funny moments, though. I liked Jessica following Matt with the camera.

[Llywela]

8 minutes ago, Affogato said:

If Matt survived Elektra could have survived.

I really don't understand the underpinnings of the story. Ok, this has happened before, Pompeii was mentioned. So is this because dragons live near their food supplies (cities) and die there and get buried over the centuries? Or did the magic city bury the dragon remains all over the world, with the magic 'key'? Because why was the magic lock in new york? Why did they have to dig the hole and did the 'dome shape' happen when the remains were teleported there? I just don't get it.

The Dark Sky is the only thing that can kidnap an ironfist? Is that it? Because that doesn't seem to make sense.

Some really funny moments, though. I liked Jessica following Matt with the camera.

It is best not to think about the plot too hard! But the interaction of the four heroes is worth the price of admission. I wish we'd got to see them together more.

[Affogato]

On 2/26/2019 at 1:22 PM, Hanahope said:

 

I guess I don't get why Elektra is all so concered with getting "the substance"?  Does she think she'll die in a year?    she only died because she went up against the Hand.  Plus, doesn't she only need it if its a real 'bad' death?  Harold Meachum 'died' twice after being given the substance, and he came back both times (yeah, a little worse soulwise, but I don't think Elektra cares about that) without extra doses of "the substance."  So not really sure why there was such a rush for it, other than Sigourney Weaver's body was falling apart after a millenia.  

There is a plot pointthat really is not handled well, i think. Alexandra has lost a daughter. She thinks of black sky as her spiritual daughter and heir. I think elektrA is disintangling herself from alexandras goals. No. Still doesn’t make sense. 

[moonshine71]

On 7/11/2021 at 4:06 PM, Affogato said:

If Matt survived Elektra could have survived.

I really don't understand the underpinnings of the story. Ok, this has happened before, Pompeii was mentioned. So is this because dragons live near their food supplies (cities) and die there and get buried over the centuries? Or did the magic city bury the dragon remains all over the world, with the magic 'key'? Because why was the magic lock in new york? Why did they have to dig the hole and did the 'dome shape' happen when the remains were teleported there? I just don't get it.

 

I don't see how "food supply" would have anything tho do w/ it, according to Gau dragons roamed the land ages ago and these bones are fossilized, they are clearly there long before New York City was even a glimmer of an idea, probably thousands of years. We don't even know if these dragons ate people, for that matter. 

I took it as the dragons lived and subsequently died in different places all over the world(I didn't get the impression the bones were transported there), and sometimes cities would happen to rise over or near their remains, close enough to be destroyed by their excavation(Chernobyl, Pompeii). There may just as well have been some sites where the Hand found deposits over the years that were less populated and whatever destruction the excavation caused was less extensive or well known.

That said, there is just a lot that doesn't make sense about the plot. Why elders of Kun Lun decided to create some kind if barrier around this set of bones but apparently not around any others in the millennia since the Hand has been seeking them out gets no explanation. The best head cannon I can come up with is, that having seen the devastation the removing these bones can cause and seeing the growth of one if the worlds largest cities directly in top of some, they took steps to protect they city from the Hands eventual pursuit of them sometime in the last few hundred years or so. That doesn't explain why they wouldn't have done the same for Chernobyl, considering that was fairly recent.

Enjoyable series, but has its share of flaws and inconsistencies. Every time they mention using the last of "the substance" (ugh, they couldn't give a name after thousands if years? They could have given it something, maybe in another language, that would have still concealed its true nature for the same effect) on Electra, I I cringe, because clearly Bakuto died LONG(Claire's ongoing story through Daredevil, Luke Cage, and finally Iron Fist gives us a timeline to measure of sorts) after Electra was killed and her body placed in the blood-filled resurrection chamber, I can only assume there was some left for him.

 

[Affogato]

On 1/19/2022 at 6:18 AM, moonshine71 said:

I don't see how "food supply" would have anything tho do w/ it, according to Gau dragons roamed the land ages ago and these bones are fossilized, they are clearly there long before New York City was even a glimmer of an idea, probably thousands of years. We don't even know if these dragons ate people, for that matter. 

I took it as the dragons lived and subsequently died in different places all over the world(I didn't get the impression the bones were transported there), and sometimes cities would happen to rise over or near their remains, close enough to be destroyed by their excavation(Chernobyl, Pompeii). There may just as well have been some sites where the Hand found deposits over the years that were less populated and whatever destruction the excavation caused was less extensive or well known.

That said, there is just a lot that doesn't make sense about the plot. Why elders of Kun Lun decided to create some kind if barrier around this set of bones but apparently not around any others in the millennia since the Hand has been seeking them out gets no explanation. The best head cannon I can come up with is, that having seen the devastation the removing these bones can cause and seeing the growth of one if the worlds largest cities directly in top of some, they took steps to protect they city from the Hands eventual pursuit of them sometime in the last few hundred years or so. That doesn't explain why they wouldn't have done the same for Chernobyl, considering that was fairly recent.

Enjoyable series, but has its share of flaws and inconsistencies. Every time they mention using the last of "the substance" (ugh, they couldn't give a name after thousands if years? They could have given it something, maybe in another language, that would have still concealed its true nature for the same effect) on Electra, I I cringe, because clearly Bakuto died LONG(Claire's ongoing story through Daredevil, Luke Cage, and finally Iron Fist gives us a timeline to measure of sorts) after Electra was killed and her body placed in the blood-filled resurrection chamber, I can only assume there was some left for him.

 

I'm sorry to see these shows leave Netflix, but it isn't entirely unexpected.

You may be right about the food source angle.

It is possible that the barrier was constructed by Kun Lun when the resource became scarce. Wanting it for themselves, they set it up so only their 'iron fist' was able to open the vault and get the substance out, as a way of keeping the substance away from the hand. Maybe, as you say, to protect the city. Perhaps their ability to build barriers was limited and they had to leave some unprotected. I wouldn't be surprised if Bakuto had a supply held in reserve that none of the other fingers knew about. I wouldn't be surprised if any of them had such a hidden supply.

[aemom]

I just started watching this series after watching all of Daredevil.  I've seen the first episode and since I haven't seen any of the other series, I am greatly appreciating all the setup of the other characters that I know nothing about.

Looking forward to reading all the posts here once I'm done.

I am reading the old vaulted episode posts as I finish watching each one, as I did with Daredevil.

[Taryn74]

2 hours ago, aemom said:

I just started watching this series after watching all of Daredevil.  I've seen the first episode and since I haven't seen any of the other series, I am greatly appreciating all the setup of the other characters that I know nothing about.

Looking forward to reading all the posts here once I'm done.

I am reading the old vaulted episode posts as I finish watching each one, as I did with Daredevil.

So much of what goes on in The Defenders isn't going to make any sense without being familiar with the characters, especially the ones from Iron Fist. But I hope you're able to enjoy it anyway! Definitely check out the other series after you're finished. Daredevil and Jessica Jones are the best IMO, followed by Iron Fist and then Luke Cage. Just my personal preferences.

[aemom]

23 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

So much of what goes on in The Defenders isn't going to make any sense without being familiar with the characters, especially the ones from Iron Fist. But I hope you're able to enjoy it anyway! Definitely check out the other series after you're finished. Daredevil and Jessica Jones are the best IMO, followed by Iron Fist and then Luke Cage. Just my personal preferences.

I guess that I like to live dangerously! 🤪

Your opinions on the shows seems to mirror what I've seen on Rotten Tomatoes.

[Llywela]

Aww, I actually really like Iron Fist. I agree that it is the weakest of the Netflix Marvel shows, but it also has a lighter tone, and I really appreciate that. It also has some great characters! Luke Cage is my least favourite. I found it really boring, which a show about gangsters really shouldn't be.

I hope you're enjoying Defenders, @aemom!

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, Llywela said:

Aww, I actually really like Iron Fist. I agree that it is the weakest of the Netflix Marvel shows, but it also has a lighter tone, and I really appreciate that. It also has some great characters! Luke Cage is my least favourite. I found it really boring, which a show about gangsters really shouldn't be.

I hope you're enjoying Defenders, @aemom!

Iron Fist dragged a little in the first season, but that second season! Wow! It was really, really good.

Luke Cage was boring AF. 😅 It did pick up a little in the second season, but not enough to put it up on my list of things I'd want to watch again.

[aemom]

On 2/16/2023 at 2:28 PM, Llywela said:

Aww, I actually really like Iron Fist. I agree that it is the weakest of the Netflix Marvel shows, but it also has a lighter tone, and I really appreciate that. It also has some great characters! Luke Cage is my least favourite. I found it really boring, which a show about gangsters really shouldn't be.

I hope you're enjoying Defenders, @aemom!

I finished the series last night. 

Overall it was fine, but a few things bugged:

Karen was insufferable with her reaction to Matt being DD again. If I had never seen her in DD, I would really hate her.

The sidekicks were at the police station to be kept safe, but they were all wandering around unsupervised all over the place. And, Foggy actually leaves to go get Matt's suit?

The final scene where Matt and Elektra were fighting was a whole "we love each other," followed by kicking each other's asses thirty seconds later multiple times.

When Foggy and Karen are staring at the door waiting for Matt to walk through it, not a single person goes over to them to explain the situation with Matt? Wow, that's seriously cold.

 

It also cleared up why I never saw Stick or Gao in DD S3. I think that JJ should have shown up at some point in DD S3 and there should have been some kind of crossover where Danny and Matt meet when Matt takes up the DD mantle again.

Overall it was good, but not amazing. 

Now I have to hunt through Disney+ to pick something new to watch. 🙂 

[Raja]

Halfway through the re-watch and have come to the conclusion that since the eye popping stuff comes at the cliffhanger scene the best way to watch is to roll over to the pre credit sequence of the next episode, otherwise you get stuck in the binge mode.

There is a lot I like, especially compared to the "then only official MCU" Disney + shows. As we catch up with the extended cast, Luke and Clare finally sharing the coffee, Matt dealing with his vigilantism addiction. Danny and Colleen both being raised to be warriors for The Chaste and The Hand but released by Stick and Bakuto from active fighting duty but it seems she has the same have to fight addiction. With Misty trusting and arming Colleen as a last line of defense I wonder if that is where Trish's need to join a fight got a real kick in the butt. But then Jessica Jones is a hard watch for me, even if the Hellcat storyline was one of my favorites from my first pass at the Netflix Marvel shows and I didn't start watching her, just the other three  for my Defenders re-watch

I wanted more from Danny, the immortal weapon who didn't believe in the fables as he was raised and Matt, with Stick as the last of The Chaste being the mentor for the coming fight. Of course Luke and Jessica's get out of here attitudes, even after the experiments on them and an alien invasion are still justifiable.   Although after the Purple Man. Maybe if they went with the longer episode lengths of the previous series?

I think I will call this a martial arts show, so Jessica Jones and Luke Cage's  use of blunt force trauma got nerfed.  That Luke can just tap your head and you were out  was missed, and no reason was given why it shouldn't have worked on undead Hand warriors.

[Raja]

On 2/26/2023 at 8:20 AM, aemom said:

When Foggy and Karen are staring at the door waiting for Matt to walk through it, not a single person goes over to them to explain the situation with Matt? Wow, that's seriously cold.

I guess it works for the greater story, back then near MCU ,when only the Kingpin would know the secret identity. All of the survivors would have been trained in some sort of privacy rights/security from Luke Cage's US Marine days to Jessica Jones and her clients.

With The Hand being the story it makes sense for the Daredevil and Iron Fist people to be the most sidekicks so Trish and Malcom felt shoehorned in without much beyond being potential victims. While Jerry Hogath was there right off of watching Iron Fist where she is also "J Money" Danny Rand's attorney. Luke Cage's only people being Claire who was shared amongst the shows while Danny just having Colleen as if Ward could be hidden wherever he was in the world.

I suprised myself by coming back for a faster watch schedule than I originally planned to do