S07.E15: Get It Done

[Joe Hellandback]

The Good; Buffy's trip to see the Shadowmen finally answers a lot of the questions. Plus bad boy Spike is finally back! The Shadowcasting scene is surprisingly creepy.

The Bad; How convenient Buffy is wearing a skirt for the first it in ages when 'knocked up' by the Shadowmen's pet demon?

Women good/men bad; So the Slayer, the symbol of female empowerment is actually based on the subjugation of women? If it was anyone but Joss you'd think this was misogynistic but here Buffy once more shows that the modern Slayer has overcome the need for patriarchal domination, she chooses to be the Slayer and will only work WITH them to save humanity. Is her breaking the staff a phallic symbol? One theory is that vamps are undead and are therefore a travesty of life. Women are the lifegivers so the Slayer's vamp sense is based upon that, that they are almost allergic to something that is against nature? Also possible that women are the Slayers as they can accept the demon within them just as they conceive a child.

Kinky dinky; How long have you got? Buffy is multiply penetrated by the demon and refers to herself being 'knocked up' and 'violated' which is normally CC's job. We discover why Buffy and Faith (and it's hinted a couple of the Potentials) have this dark and kinky sexual side to them, that the Slayer was created in a whirlwind of rape, bondage, impregnation, dark magic, pain/pleasure and female enslavement/surrender. We now know why Buffy and Faith have a thing for older men (the Shadowmen/Watchers) with 'a little demon in them' like Angel, The Master, Spike, the Mayor, Dracula, Slayer's son Wood, the Immortal. You wonder if Dawn will be the same, she share's Buffy's blood and she's already had a crush on Spike and Justin? This is the last time Buffy gets sexually assaulted in the series, that makes seven (Xander in The Pack, twice by Larry in Halloween, by Cam and then the entire mutated swimteam in Go Fish, by Spike in Seeing Red) Not counting The Master and presuming Drac was consensual. Borders on Got-fic.

Captain Subtext; Buffy is actually made stronger by the Shadowmen forcing themselves upon her, a metaphor for the power of female sexuality? Note the gentle, intimate gesture of the third Shadowman stroking his hand down Buffy's cheek even after their violent conquest of her that preceded it (repeated between Boyd and Echo on Dollhouse and Buffy/Faith in Graduation Day pt2). And Buffy actually let's him do it, it's almost a fatherly moment of affection between them. (Her Slayer side born of the Shadowmen, her Buffy side born of Hank and Joyce?).Interestingly after her girlfriend rejects her Willow goes to Buffy's bed and suggests she use 'kisses' (and Twinkies) to motivate her.

Guantanamo Bay; The Shadowmen/Watchers are supremely ruthless, Buffy's almost callous treatment of Chloe shows her going the same way. After this she wakes up to her behaviour and is much more human from now on.

Some people say that this is Buffy at her nastiest but I sympathise with her, when you see the scene with her walking around at the start guarding over the sleeping potentials she just looks so concerned and loving.

Scoobies in bondage: Buffy in chains as she's ravished by the demon.

Scoobies knocked out: Buffy by the Shadowmen, Will and Spike by the demon, Dawn and Kennedy by Willow

Kills: one demon for Spike, the big bad is back!

Notches on Scooby bedpost: do we count Buffy and the Shadowmen's pet demon as sex? It's definitely metaphorical rape but is it actual? Her reaction is like a porn star faking it, moaning, groaning, shuddering, gasping, writhing, straining against her chains. Shiver me timbers? However this is Joss and the power she gains allows her to break free, the First Slayer saying the Slayer derives power from pain, the 'women experience pain differently' concept coming to the fore again.

Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 3 possible, Dracula+RJ+Shadowman's demon(?)

What the fanficcers thought; One in particular where the Shadowmen keep Buffy as their slave but in the follow up we find she's been faking all along in order to give herself a mini-break from the responsibilities of Sunnydale 'Gotta Get It Done'. Another where she travels back through time Quantum Leap style, inhabiting the body of every Slayer through history and gaining power by enjoying their greatest sexual experience (and meeting Faith doing the same along the way)

Questions and observations; Dawn more and more starting to take on the role of junior Watcher and helps organise the Scoobs with Buffy gone. Buffy asks Anya what she actually does, she later shows us when she helps Willow figure out the spell to bring Buffy back. When Buffy says she wants the old Spike back is she voicing the opinion of many fans? Here we finally understand what Dracula meant when he referred to the darkness within Buffy and what Adam was referring to in Restless when Buffy says "I'm not a demon" and he replies "Is that a fact?"

Note that the bag which Woods' gives her is the same one she get's the mud from in 'Restless' after which she gives her 'primitive' (or stripper?)leer after giving herself an impromptu facial. According to the Shadowmen Buffy is the Hellmouth's last guardian which

Spoiler

indeed she is.

Will mentions 'Bring it on'. Willow says that she sucked power from the most powerful person nearby which was Kennedy. Note that Dawn takes a lot longer to recover consciousness than Kennedy, maybe Slayer healing? I remember being so mad with Xander and Dawn in this ep that they didn't help Buffy bury Chloe, leaving her to do it alone. 

So if Wood's bag wasn't passed down does that explain why Buffy was never found until she was 15?

Marks out of 10; 8/10 certainly LOTS to write about

[Loandbehold]

16 minutes ago, Joe Hellandback said:

So if Wood's bag wasn't passed down does that explain why Buffy was never found until she was 15?

That't tough to extrapolate from the scant information we have. Wood's mom was killed in the 70s, while Buffy wasn't called until at least 20 years later. There must have been other slayers, none of whom had the bag, and we have no idea whether they were located and provided a watcher earlier.

[Jack Shaftoe]

Let me quote Chandler Bing: "That was one of the worst things ever... and not just on TV". Okay, maybe a bit of an exaggeration but only a bit.

Anya all but literally throws herself at Spike because Anya being sex-obsessed and Spike being the most desirable man ever never gets old... I never gets not cringe-worthy.

Buffy is all "I have been carrying you", never mind it was her idiotic plan to fight the Turok Han all alone or to keep her distance.

Spike needs to embrace his dark side in order to be a good fighter? Say what? Where did this nonsense came from? This makes no sense and comes completely out of left field. I mean, if being evil made you stronger Faith should have defeated Buffy (along with many other examples). But fangirls and fanboys missed his stupid leather duster and suddenly he needs to become Darth Spike.

Dawn knows Sumerian now? What a joke.

Buffy jumps into the portal, once again having read the script, I guess, because there doesn't seem to be any sensible reason for it.

I love how everyone takes turns fighting the demon instead of all attacking him at once. And of course Spike only defeats him once he puts on the stupid duster.

Of course now Willow is a dumbass who "sucks at Latin" because heaven forbid anyone ever uses their brain and not raw power only.

The Shadow Men have such amazing prophecy powers, you wonder why they didn't give this extra power to The First Slayer in the first place since they weren't bothered by details like consent anyway.

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Here we finally understand what Dracula meant when he referred to the darkness within Buffy and what Adam was referring to in Restless when Buffy says "I'm not a demon" and he replies "Is that a fact?"

We understand that it's terribly clumsy retcon all right but the writers couldn't pass on some more metaphorical rape, of course.

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Kills: one demon for Spike, the big bad is back!

Big Bad? Spike was never the Big Bad. Hell, he isn't smart or scary enough to even be much of a Little Bad.

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

We discover why Buffy and Faith (and it's hinted a couple of the Potentials) have this dark and kinky sexual side to them

No we don't. Buffy's fondness for vampires is a Buffy flaw, not a Slayer thing.

Quote

We now know why Buffy and Faith have a thing for older men (the Shadowmen/Watchers) with 'a little demon in them' like Angel, The Master, Spike, the Mayor, Dracula, Slayer's son Wood, the Immortal.

Again, all that is conjecture, there is no real textual support for it. It's just a tired trope that plagues urban fantasy and makes many people avoid it.

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

After this she wakes up to her behaviour and is much more human from now on.

Spoiler

No, she isn't. She is just as stupid as in this trainwreck of an episode, though.

And I haven't even mentioned the nonsense that is treating the Potential as if they are army recruits, Sergeant Kennedy, Woods' bag of plot convenient objects, etc. But hey, look on the bright side, next episode is

Spoiler

Andrew-centric!

Edited November 19, 2018 by Jack Shaftoe

[lembergwatcher]

I still wonder how can supposedly sane people continue to like or sympathize with Bitchy Summers after that episode? It's one thing to tell your friends and Potentials they suck though all they do is following your stupid orders, blondie. It's quite another thing to bury your comrade in an unmarked shallow grave (gee, those girls make such a good fertilizer...) like a dog and then trash talk her. Is Bitchy that brain dead to think poor Chloe killed herself solely to piss Her Royal Slayerness field marshal Von Buffy off?  

 

1 hour ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Anya all but literally throws herself at Spike because Anya being sex-obsessed and Spike being the most desirable man ever never gets old...

But they're so perfect for each other! :) And it would've been wonderful if those two have finally found each other and moved out of town heading for the opposite part of the globe.  

 

1 hour ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Dawn knows Sumerian now?

Together with Warren's magic bullet and Andrew's very existence this is one of those Never to be Resolved Mysteries of the Buffyverse.

 

Btw is there a law in the Buffyverse which states that whenever some big fight starts Xander and Willow have to get the beating or be knocked out one after another (sometimes immediately)? A mere observation regarding several fights involving two of them (from Witch, I, Robot... You Jane, Becoming, Part 1 to Revelations, Bargaining, Part 2, Get It Done e.t.c.)

[Joe Hellandback]

21 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Let me quote Chandler Bing: "That was one of the worst things ever... and not just on TV". Okay, maybe a bit of an exaggeration but only a bit.

Anya all but literally throws herself at Spike because Anya being sex-obsessed and Spike being the most desirable man ever never gets old... I never gets not cringe-worthy.

Buffy is all "I have been carrying you", never mind it was her idiotic plan to fight the Turok Han all alone or to keep her distance.

Spike needs to embrace his dark side in order to be a good fighter? Say what? Where did this nonsense came from? This makes no sense and comes completely out of left field. I mean, if being evil made you stronger Faith should have defeated Buffy (along with many other examples). But fangirls and fanboys missed his stupid leather duster and suddenly he needs to become Darth Spike.

Dawn knows Sumerian now? What a joke.

Buffy jumps into the portal, once again having read the script, I guess, because there doesn't seem to be any sensible reason for it.

I love how everyone takes turns fighting the demon instead of all attacking him at once. And of course Spike only defeats him once he puts on the stupid duster.

Of course now Willow is a dumbass who "sucks at Latin" because heaven forbid anyone ever uses their brain and not raw power only.

The Shadow Men have such amazing prophecy powers, you wonder why they didn't give this extra power to The First Slayer in the first place since they weren't bothered by details like consent anyway.

We understand that it's terribly clumsy retcon all right but the writers couldn't pass on some more metaphorical rape, of course.

Big Bad? Spike was never the Big Bad. Hell, he isn't smart or scary enough to even be much of a Little Bad.

No we don't. Buffy's fondness for vampires is a Buffy flaw, not a Slayer thing.

Again, all that is conjecture, there is no real textual support for it. It's just a tired trope that plagues urban fantasy and makes many people avoid it.

  Reveal hidden contents

No, she isn't. She is just as stupid as in this trainwreck of an episode, though.

And I haven't even mentioned the nonsense that is treating the Potential as if they are army recruits, Sergeant Kennedy, Woods' bag of plot convenient objects, etc. But hey, look on the bright side, next episode is

  Reveal hidden contents

Andrew-centric!

Anya's just lonely, again seeking solace. I agree, Buffy is carrying the Scoobs and this is the ep that makes them step up, maybe she's mad at having to bury Chloe alone? Spike needs his attitude back as we see from his disappointing performance when he and Anya are attacked. And Dawnie is making herself useful as the junior Watcher. This is the Slayer emergency kit, who else is going to go through the portal? Apparently the whole Latin thing was an in joke as AH had difficulty with all the spellcasting dialogue she had to remember. The Shadowmen want to control the Slayer so they don't make her too powerful. Also the more demon they put in her the darker she becomes. Spike was the big bad in 2, at least until Angelus came along. Plus Faith also has a yen for vamps (or just can't resist stealing Buffy's boyfriends?).

 Remember, we saw Woods bag before in season 4 so it's not a contrivance. Face it, Buffy likes them bad, otherwise she'd have married Riley? 

20 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

I still wonder how can supposedly sane people continue to like or sympathize with Bitchy Summers after that episode? It's one thing to tell your friends and Potentials they suck though all they do is following your stupid orders, blondie. It's quite another thing to bury your comrade in an unmarked shallow grave (gee, those girls make such a good fertilizer...) like a dog and then trash talk her. Is Bitchy that brain dead to think poor Chloe killed herself solely to piss Her Royal Slayerness field marshal Von Buffy off?  

 

But they're so perfect for each other! :) And it would've been wonderful if those two have finally found each other and moved out of town heading for the opposite part of the globe.  

 

Together with Warren's magic bullet and Andrew's very existence this is one of those Never to be Resolved Mysteries of the Buffyverse.

 

Btw is there a law in the Buffyverse which states that whenever some big fight starts Xander and Willow have to get the beating or be knocked out one after another (sometimes immediately)? A mere observation regarding several fights involving two of them (from Witch, I, Robot... You Jane, Becoming, Part 1 to Revelations, Bargaining, Part 2, Get It Done e.t.c.)

Buffy is tough but she has to be, she can't sugar coat it just as Giles could never do for her. Dawn learned Sumerian to make herself useful, she wasn't going to be a Slayer but she is the junior Watcher, good for Dawnie. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Apparently the whole Latin thing was an in joke as AH had difficulty with all the spellcasting dialogue she had to remember.

Well, the joke is on the director because it makes Willow look like a moron.

Quote

The Shadowmen want to control the Slayer so they don't make her too powerful.

Ah, yes, they are just as stupid as the Monks, I forgot about that. Now, when their female equivalent appears later that season...

Spoiler

she will be just as stupid and clueless. Yay!

Seriously, that's rather ridiculous justification. Slayers were stronger than Watchers anyway.

Again, there is no evidence whatsoever that being a Slayer makes you any more prone to "going dark" that your average human. Or that it makes you get wet at the thought of sexy vampires, for that matter. As far as we know, every Slayer not named Buffy somehow managed to survive without any sex with vampires.

Quote

Spike needs his attitude back as we see from his disappointing performance when he and Anya are attacked.

You can't use a stupid contrivance shown in this very episode to explain another stupid contrivance. I mean, I loathe Spike but even I don't believe for a second that he is such a mental m***** that he needs to dress like an edgelord to be effective in combat.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Jack Shaftoe

[Joe Hellandback]

23 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Well, the joke is on the director because it makes Willow look like a moron.

Ah, yes, they are just as stupid as the Monks, I forgot about that. Now, when their female equivalent appears later that season...

  Reveal hidden contents

she will be just as stupid and clueless. Yay!

Seriously, that's rather ridiculous justification. Slayers were stronger than Watchers anyway.

Again, there is no evidence whatsoever that being a Slayer makes you any more prone to "going dark" that your average human. Or that it makes you get wet at the thought of sexy vampires, for that matter. As far as we know, every Slayer not named Buffy somehow managed to survive without any sex with vampires.

You can't use a stupid contrivance shown in this very episode to explain another stupid contrivance. I mean, I loathe Spike but even I don't believe for a second that he is such a mental m***** that he needs to dress like an edgelord to be effective in combat.

Not necessarily, they were able to control and exploit the previous Slayers and enslave Buffy until they gave her a boost. We see both Buffy and Faith have a yen for vamps, don't know about the rest. Actually the other Slayer's died, it's Buffy who has survived by boinking the undead.

Forgive me what's an edgelord?  

[Halting Hex]

On 11/19/2018 at 12:22 PM, Joe Hellandback said:

We now know why Buffy and Faith have a thing for older men (the Shadowmen/Watchers) with 'a little demon in them' like Angel, The Master,

Erm, what pornfics have you been reading, exactly?  I'm rather certain that Buffy did not, in fact, have a "thing" for old H.J. Nest.  Gileswench did write a great Master/Luke slashfic (the Master, responding positively to Luke's blowjob: "It rises! It rises, just as I shall rise to conquer the surface world! Oh, and don't forget my balls."), but that's miles away from the actual show.

On 11/19/2018 at 12:22 PM, Joe Hellandback said:

I remember being so mad with Xander and Dawn in this ep that they didn't help Buffy bury Chloe, leaving her to do it alone.

Doesn't Chloe have parents somewhere?  Shouldn't Buffy be making arrangements to ship her body home?

And, as far as digging goes, there's a whole houseful of potentials who are theoretically stronger than Dawn.  (Physical training and all.)  Get off your ass, Kennedy/Amanda/Molly/etc.!

On 11/19/2018 at 12:22 PM, Joe Hellandback said:

Marks out of 10; 8/10 certainly LOTS to write about

Voted the worst episode of the entire series on TWoP.  I disagreed

Spoiler

(Chosen got my vote)

, but I can see the case for it.  Reducing the slayers to demon-rape victims was very degrading, I felt.  (Not to mention the racial aspects…)

Spoiler

That's your final Buffy/Willow scene of the series in the tag.  (They have a one-line blip the next episode, then nothing after that in the final six episodes of the series.  FFS.)

Meanwhile, the whole "Buffy and Dawn have a special bond" nonsense takes another hit, as we see that Buffy is so studiously ignoring Dawn that Dawn has to make up stories about academic failure in a desperate attempt to get her bitch sister's attention.  (Not that I particularly care, but some people here are rather invested in that relationship, it seems.) And, aside from everything else, the episode is structurally flawed.  The transition from "Buffy acts like an enormous bitch (again, some more, as ever)" to "Buffy quests to discover the source of Slayer power" comes later in the episode than it should, and too awkwardly.  Slip-shod work, the offensive nature of the "everyone sucks but me" speech aside.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Halting Hex

[Jack Shaftoe]

49 minutes ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Not necessarily, they were able to control and exploit the previous Slayers and enslave Buffy until they gave her a boost.

So? They were going to hit her on the head and chain her on a daily basis? Watchers don't control Slayers through brute power, they manipulate them or build friendly mentor relations with them. If the Shadowmen/Watchers/Whatever Symbols of the Bad Patriarchy Joss Pulls Out of His Ass were stronger than the Slayers they wouldn't need Slayers in the first place. But S7 writers can't resists turning everything into a clumsy rape metaphor plus shades of a bad father metaphor.

Quote

Actually the other Slayer's died, it's Buffy who has survived by boinking the undead.

Tell me you are joking. Pretty please.

[Halting Hex]

On 11/20/2018 at 11:44 AM, Joe Hellandback said:

Face it, Buffy likes them bad, otherwise she'd have married Riley? 

He dumped her, not the reverse.  Chopper, sad walk down the street, "I could have said all the things I didn't get to say"…ringing a bell?

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎21‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 5:09 PM, Halting Hex said:

Erm, what pornfics have you been reading, exactly?  I'm rather certain that Buffy did not, in fact, have a "thing" for old H.J. Nest.  Gileswench did write a great Master/Luke slashfic (the Master, responding positively to Luke's blowjob: "It rises! It rises, just as I shall rise to conquer the surface world! Oh, and don't forget my balls."), but that's miles away from the actual show.

Doesn't Chloe have parents somewhere?  Shouldn't Buffy be making arrangements to ship her body home?

And, as far as digging goes, there's a whole houseful of potentials who are theoretically stronger than Dawn.  (Physical training and all.)  Get off your ass, Kennedy/Amanda/Molly/etc.!

Voted the worst episode of the entire series on TWoP.  I disagreed

  Reveal hidden contents

(Chosen got my vote)

, but I can see the case for it.  Reducing the slayers to demon-rape victims was very degrading, I felt.  (Not to mention the racial aspects…)

  Reveal hidden contents

That's your final Buffy/Willow scene of the series in the tag.  (They have a one-line blip the next episode, then nothing after that in the final six episodes of the series.  FFS.)

Meanwhile, the whole "Buffy and Dawn have a special bond" nonsense takes another hit, as we see that Buffy is so studiously ignoring Dawn that Dawn has to make up stories about academic failure in a desperate attempt to get her bitch sister's attention.  (Not that I particularly care, but some people here are rather invested in that relationship, it seems.) And, aside from everything else, the episode is structurally flawed.  The transition from "Buffy acts like an enormous bitch (again, some more, as ever)" to "Buffy quests to discover the source of Slayer power" comes later in the episode than it should, and too awkwardly.  Slip-shod work, the offensive nature of the "everyone sucks but me" speech aside.

Merciless Master and its' happy ending sequel Merciless Mistress. When he bites her she does respond like a porn-star faking it whether she wants to or not. Oh I remember Gileswench, I think I used to read her stuff on UCSL and telling her about ASH on Little Britain. It's not the digging that Buffy needs helps with, it's the emotional side.  Talk about Chosen when we get there. Dawn is just teasing Buffy as Buffy used to do with Joyce and Joyce does to Buffy in IWMTLY. 

[Halting Hex]

It's nice (?) that you know where to find Buffy/Master fic (good 'ship name, though…"Buster"), but that really doesn't have much to do with the show itself.  That Buffy is helpless when under his hypnotic control doesn't mean she's "into" him, any more than BB&B "proves" Harmony is "into" Xander or Something Blue shows Spike honestly lusting for Buffy or Superstar means the twins wanted Jonathan or Dead Things demonstrates Katrina's eternal lust for Warren.  

That's magic, magic, magic, and more magic.  "Showy gypsy crap", to quote Spike.  And nothing more.

[lembergwatcher]

Speaking of magic.

All of a sudden it's not that bad anymore. The key message of the previous season ("Magic is baaaad! Though shalt not do magic!") went quietly out of the window.

Quote

PRINCIPAL WOOD
Buffy tells me you have been, um—oh, how shall I put it—experimenting. (Willow's eyes grow wide; she casts a "you said what?" glance at Buffy) With the magicks.

WILLOW
(laughs nervously) Oh! Yeah. Oh, nothing too heavy, though. Just the lighter, safer stuff. Uh, if Kennedy asks, her pointy stuff's right there. See you inside. (to Buffy) So much cooler than Snyder.

PRINCIPAL WOOD
She really almost destroyed the world?

BUFFY
(nods) Yep.

PRINCIPAL WOOD
Remind me not to make her crabby.

BUFFY
It might be better if you did.

What about the whole "magic has consequences" shtick? Or does Buffy really miss "Dark Willow" so much?
Not only magic is good from now on, but the lack of enthusiasm concerning spell-casting is equated to treason.

Quote

KENNEDY
(to Willow) You're gonna let her talk to you like that? Willow, she's not even the most powerful one in this room. With you here, she's not close.

BUFFY
You're new here, and you're wrong. Because I use the power that I have. The rest of you are just waiting for me.

Season sux: "Bad, bad, bad Willow for being so into magic! Go cry in the corner, you useless junkie!"

Season seven: "Bad, bad, bad Willow for her reluctance to cast a spell whenever Buffy wants! Go cry in the corner, you useless coward!"

God, how much I "love" it when they do a 180 with each passing season... 

[Halting Hex]

Oh, hell, you don't need to wait an entire season for this show to do a 180° on magic.  Sometimes they do it in consecutive episodes!

Episode 7.05:  Willow blows the Grimslaw demon out of the frat house with pure, black-eyed, point-and-blink Jean Grey/Sabrina power.  Prue Halliwell couldn't have gotten her TK on any better.

Episode 7.06:  Willow needs crystals and an incantation to invoke Hecate and change R.J. into a girl.  When Xander interrupts, she has to go back to the start, and R.J. gets to continue being a man, with man parts.  (The locator spell used later in the episode also requires paraphernalia and conjuring.)

And we thought Spike's chip or Xander's military knowledge would bend with the plot requirements wind? When it comes to writer fiat, they've got nothing on good old American magic, baby!

[lembergwatcher]

While watching fourth season back in the day I couldn't imagine there would come a time I'd sympathize more with Anya (I mean, Anya!) than with Buffy. Unfortunately the writers did everything in their power to make me come to that. The whole "Chloe was an idiot"/"Everyone sucks but me" speech is one of Buffy's all-time lowest moments. Much worse than dumpster sex in the previous season.

Spoiler

Only the supposed champion of humanity promising to let Spike kill Robin looks even more disgusting.

OTOH there's a thing that bugs me everytime I think about that wretched ep and Chloe's untimely death. We clearly see Casa Summers was so overcrowded by then, several girls had to share one bedroom. Yet Chloe just happened to end up alone in that room at night, with no one to stop her from killing herself, for no apparent reason. It was a nighttime, therefore most girls should have found the place to rest elsewhere in the house, Did Chloe have some sort of privilege to sleep on her own? Was it because of her snoring or whatever? You tell me... 

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎18‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 8:47 PM, lembergwatcher said:

Speaking of magic.

All of a sudden it's not that bad anymore. The key message of the previous season ("Magic is baaaad! Though shalt not do magic!") went quietly out of the window.

What about the whole "magic has consequences" shtick? Or does Buffy really miss "Dark Willow" so much?
Not only magic is good from now on, but the lack of enthusiasm concerning spell-casting is equated to treason.

Season sux: "Bad, bad, bad Willow for being so into magic! Go cry in the corner, you useless junkie!"

Season seven: "Bad, bad, bad Willow for her reluctance to cast a spell whenever Buffy wants! Go cry in the corner, you useless coward!"

God, how much I "love" it when they do a 180 with each passing season... 

Because they need her just as they need Spike, this is why we have this ep, to gee them up.

[Halting Hex]

Well, as it's another 7 episodes before Willow and Spike make their alleged contract-justifying contributions to the finale, perhaps Buffy might wait for 5 or 6 before she hits Critical Bitch Mass?  Just wondering.

[Halting Hex]

From the NFL yesterday:

Quote

ANNOUNCER (quoting a coach's description of his game plan): We're just going to do what we do best.

ME:  Getting thrown through the ceiling?

So even a garbage episode such as this can still contribute to my Buffy-lexicon.  (And thank you, Kennedy.) 

But thin gruel, nonetheless.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Halting Hex

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎22‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 1:28 AM, Halting Hex said:

Well, as it's another 7 episodes before Willow and Spike make their alleged contract-justifying contributions to the finale, perhaps Buffy might wait for 5 or 6 before she hits Critical Bitch Mass?  Just wondering.

She was never anything but adorable, she just had the weight of the world on her shoulders. 

On ‎23‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 9:36 PM, Halting Hex said:

From the NFL yesterday:

So even a garbage episode such as this can still contribute to my Buffy-lexicon.  (And thank you, Kennedy.) 

But thin gruel, nonetheless.

Don't you mean 'weak tea'?

[lembergwatcher]

Quote

BUFFY
This may mean more than you think.

PRINCIPAL WOOD
Is that so?

Show that Principal Wood and Buffy are talking to two young boys who have bruises and ripped shirts.

PRINCIPAL WOOD
Because I think what we have here is a couple of chuckle-heads who thought that a cafeteria fist fight would impress. I'm not impressed. Buffy, are you impressed? (Buffy purses her lips and shakes her head disapprovingly) Still, I'm gonna cut you guys some slack this time. (makes a gesture toward the door with his thumb; the kids leave; to Buffy) Third fight this week, and it's just getting worse. (closes window blinds, walks to the front of Buffy's desk) Plus, a rise in vandalism. Three students missing. Tell me something, Buffy, in your professional opinion— (listens to the kids rough-housing in the hallway outside) it's started, hasn't it?

Well, I understand that a rise in vandalism or missing students are a sure sign of the Hellmouth rearing its ugly head, but three fights in a week?? Fights were a daily occurence at my old school and last time I checked there was no Hellmouth beneath the school building.

[Joe Hellandback]

9 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Well, I understand that a rise in vandalism or missing students are a sure sign of the Hellmouth rearing its ugly head, but three fights in a week?? Fights were a daily occurence at my old school and last time I checked there was no Hellmouth beneath the school building.

Fights that came to the teacher's notice. 

[Halting Hex]

9 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Fights were a daily occurence at my old school and last time I checked there was no Hellmouth beneath the school building.

Look harder.  Just remember to bring a machete or handaxe if any three-headed Cthulu demons start waving tentacles in your direction.

[Halting Hex]

On 11/21/2018 at 12:09 PM, Halting Hex said:

I can see the case for [TWoP voting this the worst episode of the series, even if I disagreed].  Reducing the slayers to demon-rape victims was very degrading, I felt.  (Not to mention the racial aspects…)

Thinking more about this (because I'm a masochist) I recalled that I thought the whole "demon-rape-mist" was not only a vile and degrading answer to a question ("Mommy, where do Slayers come from?") that IMO didn't really need a specific answer, but that it was clearly yet another bone thrown to the Spuffy-'shippers…"ooooh, Buffy has a demon inside her, too!  She's just like Spike, they're SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOULmates! Squeee!"

Except…if vampires and Slayers are pretty much the same exact thing (a demon in a human body), then why are Slayers so much more successful? Why are they, as Angel reminds Buffy in Sanctuary, stronger than vampires, despite Buffy wearing this petite-to-the-extreme Sarah Michelle Gellar-sized body around her demon? What, was the demon who bit a human and created the first vampire (per Giles, The Harvest) just a mediocre representative of his kind, but the Big Black Shadowrapists were able to summon this Really Awesome Demon that they found on a shelf in the back room in Hell in order to create Sineya, the First Slayer, and her successors, and so the difference between Buffy and Angel isn't her continuing humanity or Earth still being essentially inimical to demons or her being of a higher mystic order or some such, but merely that she's carrying a True Demon inside of her, and all he's got is a cheesy knock-off?  This is what happens when the vampires sign these free-trade agreements, you know.  Sigh.

And hey, doesn't all of this actually diminish Spike, the Slayer of Slayers, and all that?  I mean, if Slayers don't actually have a built-in advantage, if any vamp from Thomas to the randoms who attacked Wood in the alley outside the restaurant last episode are actually just as mystically imbued as Buffy is, then why should we be impressed that Spike has a whopping two kills, exactly?  Apparently, it's not his single-minded determination or the love of a good (insane) vampire that spurs him to his success; any vampire, be it Jesse or Jamie, could "have a real good day", should luck fall in their direction (as the flashbacks in Fool for Love show did happen for Spike, in both of his Slayer-slayings).

I mean, if Slayers are just more demons, albeit in "hot chicks" forms, and Spike is therefore just a run-of-the-fang vamp who hasn't actually surmounted any impressive odds or anything such as that, then why are we giving JM 96 freaking paychecks, exactly?  "Hawt abs" or not…

[lembergwatcher]

2 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

What, was the demon who bit a human and created the first vampire (per Giles, The Harvest) just a mediocre representative of his kind, but the Big Black Shadowrapists were able to summon this Really Awesome Demon that they found on a shelf in the back room in Hell in order to create Sineya, the First Slayer, and her successors, and so the difference between Buffy and Angel isn't her continuing humanity or Earth still being essentially inimical to demons or her being of a higher mystic order or some such, but merely that she's carrying a True Demon inside of her, and all he's got is a cheesy knock-off?

No, but Giles' history lesson was in another season. Throwing away the entire story arcs of the previous seasons just to please particular segments of the fandom or for any other reason is nothing new for this show.

[lembergwatcher]

Btw.

Get it Done happens to be one of those episodes which demonstrate most vividly how dumb and self-absorbed once glorious Buffy the Vampire Slayer had become. Take the dreaming, for instance. Somehow Buffy managed to get it right most of the time in the past, be it Master's attempted ressurection (When She Was Bad), impending catastrophe with Angel (Surprise), Jenny's involvement (Innocence), Grace & James (I Only Have Eyes for You), Mayor's soft spot (Graduation Day, Part 2) or Gentlemen's box (Hush).

In the Dawnverse however things change. Buffy has a dream involving one of the SiTs and it doesn't even occur to her that Chloe can be in serious trouble and The First may have something to do with this. Because The First has never manipulated anyone, hasn't it? Someone like, say, Spike?.. Apparently it got to the point where the friggin' vampire is considered to be more valuable (and thus worth saving) than the potential sister Slayer...

Those Slayer dreams, they used to mean something, right? Why not approach the girl and try to, y'know, talk to her? Chloe looks distressed in a dream. And when the soldier's morale hits rock bottom, it's gotta be general's duty to do something about it. Considering our Slayer's addiction to long "motivational" speeches, I find it a little bit strange she doesn't try to motivate one of her own potentials to stay alive, at least.  

Instead we're subjected to two whole Buffy/Wood conversations, i.e. Buffy whining and Wood playing the yes-man. All that "the potentials suck and all my friends suck, and that bitch Willow don't wanna be my Wicca soldier, like she used to, yada-yada-yada" bullshit. Furthermore, not only does Bitchy fail to reach out to Chloe, she has the audacity to call the poor girl names after burying her like a dog.

And we still have to view Buffy as a "hero"... Disgusting... 

[Halting Hex]

3 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Buffy has a dream involving one of the SiTs and it doesn't even occur to her that Chloe can be in serious trouble and The First may have something to do with this.

Despite the part where she had a dream about SiTs getting murdered in Beneath You and has since been informed that it was, in fact, prophetic.

3 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Because The First has never manipulated anyone, hasn't it? Someone like, say, Spike?

Or her oh-so-(allegedly)-precious Instant!Sister, to cite another example.

And of course, there's the part where Willow told Buffy that the First tried to manipulate her into suicide, but that conversation probably went right in one of Buffy's ears and out the other one.  Since it was only Willow talking, after all.

I've always given Kennedy slack on the "maggot" issue, since First!Chloe told Buffy that she "talked all night" to Chloe.  But looking at the transcript, I see that Chloe must have killed herself almost instantly after Kennedy made her do those push-ups;  Buffy and Wood continue from the back yard into the basement, where Spike and Wood wave their dicks at each other (not literally, although it likely would have improved the episode…), and then Buffy and Wood go upstairs, and shortly thereafter we join Buffy and Dawn setting up more beds with Dawn telling Buffy what she saw on her first glimpse inside Wood's hand-me-down-bag.  And it's still daylight, so how much time could it have been?  Maybe a couple of hours, maximum.

So First!Buffy might have "loaded the gun" for Chloe's suicide, but apparently it really was the "maggot" comment (and subsequent mandatory push-ups) that pulled the trigger.  Sigh.

(I suppose it says something about Chloe's dedication that she actually did the pushups, considering that she was suicidal at the moment.  I might have given them a miss, under those circumstances, personally.)

[lembergwatcher]

1 hour ago, Halting Hex said:

But looking at the transcript, I see that Chloe must have killed herself almost instantly after Kennedy made her do those push-ups

Right. But both "maggot" comment and the push-ups seem to occur either during the day or early in the evening. While I remember Dead!Chloe wearing pajamas the moment Buffy and Dawn discovered her body (it appears she was getting ready to go to sleep).

I don't deny that Kennedy's words could have pulled the trigger, but with Buffy's dream the night before something tells me that girl's been contemplating suicide for quite a while.

[lembergwatcher]

On 11/19/2018 at 8:41 PM, Jack Shaftoe said:

I love how everyone takes turns fighting the demon instead of all attacking him at once. And of course Spike only defeats him once he puts on the stupid duster.

I'm terrified to even think what would have happened if Xander destroyed that stupid duster after finding it hanging on the banister in the foyer of Casa Summers in Seeing Red. "Nancy" would have escaped for good. And Buffy would probably have to remain in the Shadow Men's Verse forever getting hit on the head and chained on the daily basis (wow... sounds like a "plot" for some adult/bondage Buffy fic...)

[Halting Hex]

On 2/9/2019 at 12:18 PM, Halting Hex said:

Spike and Wood wave their dicks at each other

Jeez, nice subtle character names, huh?  If only the show had lasted long enough for Buffy to date men named "Rod", "John Thomas", and "Johnson". 

Not to mention the vanished Willy the Snitch…

[illdoc]

2 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

If only the show had lasted long enough for Buffy to date men named "Rod", "John Thomas", and "Johnson". 

How about "Lance" and "Peter"?

[Halting Hex]

4 minutes ago, illdoc said:

How about "Lance" and "Peter"?

Hmm, if only RJ had given The Jacket back to his brother…or if Buffy had spent less time worrying about Circumlocuting Cassie and checked out what was under those Red Robes. 😉

(Hey, Spike's a gibbering loon [at that time] and a Slayer's got needs, okay?)

[lembergwatcher]

I take it, Buffy jumping into the portal/unleashing the demon from another dimension scene occures the same night Chloe died and Buffy gave her notorious "everybody suck but me" speech? Then how can "Nancy" escape through Casa Summers without waking all the potentials or killing some of them? There have to be two dozens of scared teenage girls screaming bloody murder and filling the room/kitchen asking what the hell happened and so on... But we don't see any of them except for Kennedy, of course (for obvious reasons. Having Willow as a girlfriend surely makes someone a part of the inner circle, yeah?) Where are the girls anyway?..

[lembergwatcher]

On 11/20/2018 at 6:57 PM, Jack Shaftoe said:

I loathe Spike but even I don't believe for a second that he is such a mental m***** that he needs to dress like an edgelord to be effective in combat.

I'm afraid to even think about what would have happened, what calamities would have fallen upon humanity if Xander decided to bury or burn Spike's "legendary" duster after finding it at Revello Drive in Seeing Red? That "Nancy" monster would probably continue to roam Southern California to this very day while Buffy would still be playing bondage games with the Shadowmen in some other dimension... 

[Halting Hex]

An interesting hypothesis, but Spike endured any number of "trials" during the two-part season finale last season, no jacket required (to quote Phil Collins).  Clearly, there's only one "magic jacket" In this town, and Xander burnt it, nine episodes back.

For the show to make such a big deal over what is clearly nothing more than a totem is…just more proof that the episode sucks, I suppose.

[Joe Hellandback]

19 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

I'm afraid to even think about what would have happened, what calamities would have fallen upon humanity if Xander decided to bury or burn Spike's "legendary" duster after finding it at Revello Drive in Seeing Red? That "Nancy" monster would probably continue to roam Southern California to this very day while Buffy would still be playing bondage games with the Shadowmen in some other dimension... 

Nah, the Scoobs would have caught it eventually and Buffy would have found her way back, I remember a fanfic where she travels forwards in time by occupying the bodies of the all the previous slayers Quantum Leaps style (and of course this being Buffy fanfic deriving strength from enjoying their greatest sexual experiences).  

[Halting Hex]

On 11/24/2018 at 6:10 AM, Joe Hellandback said:

When [the Master] bites [Buffy] she does respond like a porn-star faking it whether she wants to or not.

No, again, no.  It's the Master who is near-orgasmic ("Oh, God! The power!").  Buffy goes limply unconscious, which why she falls like a sack of potatoes when the Master drops her in that pool.

It's nothing like the "orgasmic kicks" in Graduation Day, Part 2.  You appear to be confusing the Master with Angel.  Which, unless there's a surprisingly-large audience that would have enjoyed lots and of shirtless Mark Metcalf, is a mistake the show was IMO wise to avoid.

(Then again, if it means that Boreanaz gets a conveniently-placed broken table through the chest…hmmm.)

Edited June 23, 2022 by Halting Hex