Criminal Minds Unpopular Opinions

[normasm]

I agree with a lot you said, Knittzu, and unfortunately, that includes your #10. It looks as if (and I'll be happy to be wrong) MGG won't get to direct 2 this year as promised, so I feel a lack of enthusiasm on his part that may be growing. The Reid character is central to the show, even though Hotch and Rossi are the stars. It wouldn't be CM without Reid. By that token, if they can't write Reid correctly, I want them to just stop. 

 

I liked JJ as liaison and enjoy her (limited) role when I watch pre-6 episodes. I hated to lose Emily, but she's gone; love watching Elle, but she's gone; thought MP was an interesting prick, but he's gone; really was starting to like Blake, but she's gone.

 

Garcia is nothing but a cartoon character with her magic computer; JJ 2.0 is, as well, with the superpower of motherhood instead of a computer; Morgan is bored, boring, and will be gone at the end of this season.

 

That leaves Rossi, who is way too old to be in the field, but could be used in some new way, if TPTB would just get a bit more creative; and Hotch, who is supposed to be the heart and soul of the entire show, but has been marginalized and ignored off and (mostly) on for the last 4 seasons.

 

Even if they did revive the show formula so that Hotch took back his starring role and Reid was given Morgan's place in the balancing act (Joe being the other star), the writing would still feature JJ heavily and Garcia and her computer, because that's what everyone Tweets about now. Kate is an unknown factor. She was brought in to take the heat off JJ, bring some of her fans over, and add some estrogen back into the mix, but she's still always reminding us she's a mom, she's a tough "boy scout." Because she's treated Reid well so far, I'll give her a chance, but if they have another episode that ends with Kate calling or hugging her boo, she's out with me. There, that's probably my unpopular opinion.

[Knittzu]

Thank you for the insights about Erica Messer, missmycat. That clears a lot of confusion for me. I just knew that at some point there was a shift and my favorite characters faded into the background. I was suddenly watching the Morgan/JJ/Garcia show, but couldn’t pinpoint when that happened — much less why. That’s sad news, because I’m assuming Messer isn’t going anywhere, and she’s far from the first showrunner to ruin a once-beloved series for me.

 

I noticed that Reid didn’t get a centric episode last season, which made me sad. Really, aside from “Persuasion” and “Rabid,” he was largely absent during the Season of JJ. There were many scenes where he was inexplicably missing without so much as a tossed-off line about where he might be! Just… gone. So we could watch more of the action-adventure twins, I suppose.

 

I don’t know whether to be relieved or sad to hear that other fans of Reid want to see him get a new job and be done with this mess. Even though he’s a fictional character, I want better for him than what he has now.

 

Old Dog — Thank you, and no fan could be newer than me! I’m not on Tumblr or Twitter (*shudder*) and didn’t think to check there to see what people are saying.

 

Those of us who love the intelligent profiling and team dynamics in solving cases are frankly horrified at JJ, Morgan and Garcia being shoved to the fore and the cases solved with Garcia's magic computer and JJ and Morgan's action hero antics.

 

 

I’m glad to hear I’m not alone in this. At this point, it feels like the writers/showruiner have decided that JJ, Morgan, and Garcia are the only characters the BAU really needs. We have JJ and Morgan chasing down unsubs and firing off their guns and shouting cliched lines here and there; meanwhile, every single crime lately has been solved by Garcia’s magical computer. Why bother with a genius like Reid when the computer sees all and knows all? Why bother including experienced, seasoned professional profilers when all the team needs to do in the end is kick in a door and shoot the unsub?

 

Thanks for the info about Reid’s headaches. I was puzzled by that storyline — one minute he was absolutely debilitated with pain; the next everything was fine. It was mentioned maybe once or twice, and then *poof*, gone, the problem apparently solved by a few phone conversations with his love interest and her magical healing voice. I wondered if maybe the writers lost their notes on where they were going with that plot.

 

I hate all the romances - they come over to me as flat, forced and Disney and I confess to being a Beth hater.

 

 

I’m not crazy about the romances either. I don’t think the writers integrate them well with the larger BAU story or create believable relationships. And, frankly, with only 42 minutes per show, they don’t have enough time for them. Even skilled writers would struggle with those sorts of constraints.

 

I also think Reid should get another job - it seems they do not value his extraordinary talents at all and I even get irked that he is still out in the Bullpen with all the non-team agents where almost all the others have an office.

 

 

THANK YOU! I was going to talk about that in my original post, too, but it was already too long. Reid has a slew of degrees, twelve years of experience in the FBI, a unique skill-set and a genius IQ but he’s still stuck out in the bullpen. I know that from a story standpoint they want to have the characters grouped together as much as possible, but it still irks me that he’s never even been offered his own office. Has there ever even been a mention of other departments wanting him, possible promotions, anything? It bugs me to no end that both JJ and Morgan are seen as prime candidates for other, better jobs but Reid? Nothing. I guess he needs to start randomly shooting off his gun in the dark or kicking in doors before he’s noticed.

 

Amensisterfriend — I was never a big fan of original-flavor JJ fan either, but the show made a huge effort to sell me on the importance of her job as media liaison you know what? I was convinced! I thought she was an absolute essential part of the team, screening potential cases, making big decisions, presenting material to the BAU and then working with the local media. Her early reactions rang true to me, like her distress over Reid’s kidnapping and being forced to shoot a dog. Now nothing effects her. Being kidnapped and tortured? Just material for yuks fellow tough-dude Morgan.

 

Worse, it now seems that the role of media liaison never mattered at all, because no one is doing that job any more. What happened to that office overflowing with cases that needed reviews and presentations? That's a canon-breaking issue, IMO.

 

My ideal Criminal Minds would feature a team that consisted only of Reid, Hotch, Rossi, Elle, and Emily and explored those characters in greater depth and gave each of them more distinct specialties and roles, etc. although another somewhat unpopular opinion is that... ...I really like Kate Callahan a lot so far.

 

 

I like her too. She actually seems to have a personality, which is a step up from JJ, and doesn’t act like a pre-teen, which is a step up from Garcia. She hasn't decided that the best way to fit in with this team is to roll her eyes at Reid or treat him like an annoying child, so she gets points there, too.

 

Your ideal team is also mine (although I’d swap Elle for Kate or Blake.) And hell, I wouldn’t even mind JJ1.0 being around… as the media liaison, not the bionic ninja superwoman, but that ship has sailed and there’s clearly no going back.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I loved Blake! I thought she was the ultimate professional and I loved how she was with Reid - except for that one scene where she asked where he was on the Aspergers scale. For me, she was a much more believable agent than Barbie Schwarzenegger.

 

And she even apologized for that later, which made her extra cool for me. I like it when the others treat Spencer like he's a person with feelings, and that doesn't happen often enough lately.

[Knittzu]

I loved Blake! I thought she was the ultimate professional and I loved how she was with Reid - except for that one scene where she asked where he was on the Aspergers scale. For me, she was a much more believable agent than Barbie Schwarzenegger.

 

 

I loved Blake, too, and thought it was crazy how little they used her. Shoving such an excellent actress aside to focus more time on JJ and Garcia seemed like a terrible decision to me. I also loved her with Reid, aside from the Aspergers comment — although I appreciated that she later apologized for that. How rare is it that a member of this “family” is rude to Reid and then apologizes?? (Not that there is anything wrong with having ASD, and it’s possible that Reid does land somewhere on the spectrum, but that’s another discussion.)

 

It wouldn't be CM without Reid. By that token, if they can't write Reid correctly, I want them to just stop. 

 

 

I agree. I’m sympathetic to the challenges of writing a character who is smarter than the writer, but if they can’t manage it, why not hire a specialist for his lines/scenes? I’m willing to bet there’s a great number of fic writers who would do the job for free.

 

Garcia is nothing but a cartoon character with her magic computer; JJ 2.0 is, as well, with the superpower of motherhood instead of a computer; Morgan is bored, boring, and will be gone at the end of this season.

 

 

Will he really? Good. I won’t miss him at all. I don’t know if it’s the fault of the writing or the acting, but I never warmed up to his character and deeply resent the way he’s taken over the show. And Garcia is ridiculous. The older she gets, the worse and more embarrassing her entire schtick becomes.

 

Hotch, who is supposed to be the heart and soul of the entire show, but has been marginalized and ignored off and (mostly) on for the last 4 seasons.

 

 

I’ll never understand that. It’s just incomprehensible to me. I’ve never watched a series before where the main character is cast aside the way he has been. At first I was thinking that the writers were just turning the show into more of an ensemble, but the more I watched, the clearer it was that it's NOT an ensemble at all. It's just that Hotch/Rossi/Reid have been pushed aside to make more time for JJ/Morgan/Garcia.

 

Even if they did revive the show formula so that Hotch took back his starring role and Reid was given Morgan's place in the balancing act (Joe being the other star), the writing would still feature JJ heavily and Garcia and her computer, because that's what everyone Tweets about now.

 

 

How depressing! I had no idea that showrunners put so much stock in tweets. That strikes me as a very poor way to gauge the quality of your show, but I suppose they’re the pros, huh?

 

Just what are people tweeting about Garcia and her computer, anyhow? I'm amazed that people are impressed by that or think it's good writing -- especially in 2014, when most people should know that even a master!super!genius!hacker can't just go tippity-tippity-tap on her computer and bring up confidential, personal information about anyone on the planet.

[dusang]

Knittzu, great post!!  I totally agree with you.

 

And Cobalt Stargazer I have to agree with you on BTVS -- I couldn't stop watching but to this day I choose to believe that the last two seasons just didn't happen.  [/off topic]

[zannej]

Hi Knittzu, to clarify some things that might explain the changes: The main shift happened because CBS had the best writers fired and forced the firings of the actresses for JJ and Prentiss to make the show more like the stupid spinoff. The original showrunner left to run the spinoff but it failed. The second showrunner jumped ship, and that left the show in the hands of someone who had no experience running a show and also, was not even a good solo writer. She used to write things with a writing partner (who was fired).

So basically the writers who knew how to write Reid are gone from the show and they brought in new writers who used to work on later seasons of ER and other stuff.

You may have noticed that they now show the unsubs more frequently and reveal them sooner. They also seem to be more interested in action and there is less profiling.

 

In the unpopular opinion category, I fanwank that Reid actually had a job in the government before he joined the BAU. I know they said he was only groomed for the BAU, but I could see him taking a job to improve his chances of getting a foot in the door.

 

I don't know about Morgan not coming off as someone who was abused. I've known people who were abused and you wouldn't know it to talk to them unless they really open up. I know that story was actually taken from the life of a real BAU agent (who sometimes writes episodes for the show).

 

I disliked Beth more because of the way she was introduced and how preposterous the story was. Plus the actress had no chemistry with Hotch at all. I'm not looking forward to future love interest stories on the show.

[alexvillage]

 

Will he really? Good. I won’t miss him at all. I don’t know if it’s the fault of the writing or the acting, but I never warmed up to his character and deeply resent the way he’s taken over the show. And Garcia is ridiculous. The older she gets, the worse and more embarrassing her entire schtick becomes.

I won't miss Morgan either. I will be happy he will disappear. And Garcia is not only ridiculous when she opens her mouth. The acting seems to be bad on purpose, the parts where she is actively typing on her magic supercomputer. Could she at least pretend better? ugh!

[Cobalt Stargazer]

How depressing! I had no idea that showrunners put so much stock in tweets. That strikes me as a very poor way to gauge the quality of your show, but I suppose they’re the pros, huh?

 

Just what are people tweeting about Garcia and her computer, anyhow? I'm amazed that people are impressed by that or think it's good writing -- especially in 2014, when most people should know that even a master!super!genius!hacker can't just go tippity-tippity-tap on her computer and bring up confidential, personal information about anyone on the planet.

 

Knittzu, some showrunners spend quite a lot of time on Twitter and such. Ron Carvilati, who is currently butchering what's left of General Hospital, is notorious for both trying to shame the "haters" into shutting up, and blocking them when they won't. If you use Twitter, which I usually don't, you should check out his feed sometime. It's a lot of laughs.

 

Also, I'm mostly computer-illiterate, so I can almost let the stuff with Garcia's mystical, magical hacking mojo slide. It's no more unbelievable than JJ suddenly being an invincible superwoman.

[SSAHotchner]

Knittzu, MMC is correct when she said the change in show runner was key, although what Zannej said about the good writers being fired is also very true. As for identifying the unsub early on, I did a calculation a few years ago. Season 1 there were only 4 out of 22 episodes where we saw the unsub early on. In the first four seasons, season 4 had the most incidences of early unsub appearance, but even then it was only 8 out of 25. By season 5 with the new writers it was half the episodes where you'd see the unsub right away. Erica took over in season 6. We then went to 2/3 the episodes featuring the unsub right away. I stopped counting after season 7, mostly because I abhorred season 8. I haven't watched any episodes from the past couple of seasons over again, although I can watch seasons 1-4 over and over, but I am pretty sure you can count on one hand the episodes where we don't see the unsub from the get-go.

 

Also, I'm a Beth hater. And I actually really liked Elle, except for when she freaked out, but I blame all that on the writers. Prior to that she was strong and capable, but also compassionate. I'm basing this on her handling of the families of the victims in season one and the way she empathized with Reid.

[Knittzu]

Thanks for the response and info, SSAHotchner. I appreciate it.

 

I don't mind that people hate Beth! I definitely don't have anything invested in the character. It was just a big surprise to me when I started reading opinions on various boards last week. I had no doubt that Ashley would be widely hated and hoped that others would join me in my utter annoyance with JJ, but the first and most passionate rants I found were from people who hate, hate, hate Beth. I actually had to look up the character on IMDB to remember what she looked like! But that's largely a function mainlining the show in just a few months. I never had a week to sit around thinking things through -- if i didn't like an episode/character/etc, it was just straight on to the next.

 

Cobalt,

Also, I'm mostly computer-illiterate, so I can almost let the stuff with Garcia's mystical, magical hacking mojo slide. It's no more unbelievable than JJ suddenly being an invincible superwoman.

 

 

It's harder for me to let it slide because I'm married to someone with multiple degrees in computer security. And somehow, he always manages to walk into the room when Garcia is doing something utterly ridiculous on her magical computer and then I get a Reid-style lecture on how hacking doesn't work like that, NOTHING works like that, etc. Heh.

 

But compared to JJ suddenly morphing into the invincible ninja superwoman capable of taking down bin Laden... yeah, anything is more believable!

[amensisterfriend]

Knittzu, which are your very favorite seasons and episodes? My favorite season is 4, though I'm not sure that's unpopular. I go through stages where I find Gideon fascinating and compelling and other stages where the character and actor who plays him just exhaust me and temporarily turn me off to otherwise adored S1-S2 episodes. I think we have a thread for ranking favorite seasons and episodes, so I'd love to hear yours! 

 

I hope there's room for me at the small table of viewers who really liked Alex and really wish they'd given her more to do. I'm also geeky enough to be totally fascinated by her expertise in linguistics, and I absolutely hate that we didn't get to see more of it.  

 

Not giving the agents better defined specialties, areas of expertise and even a few professional shortcomings is one of my biggest complaints about the show in general. I hate when the writers have the characters all spout totally random exposition about any given case with absolutely no regard to which character is uttering which line, like they're all so interchangeable and equally proficient at absolutely everything in lieu of each team member making unique contributions. One unpopular opinion is that I would totally cut at least three members of the BAU if I were in charge of managing the FBI's budget...they all seem to be equally expert in all areas and everything that arises, making at least three of them totally superfluous more often than not! 

 

While I complain about this show's characterizations, they must be doing something right...however accidentally ;) I say that because Reid and Hotch and even Rossi (yeah, I know, talk about unpopular!) are all among my biggest TV crushes ever, and that's not even counting my unashamed "girlcrushes" on Elle and Emily and the aforementioned fondness for Alex and Kate. They're all characters who I love watching, discussing and speculating about, in spite of and even because of how minimally developed they often are on screen.

 

JJ, Morgan and Garcia can all leave ANY time, though. (This sentiment may not be all that unpopular here, but it seems wildly unpopular elsewhere.) I once thought I'd miss Morgan's dynamic with Reid, but at this point I find their interactions more frustrating than entertaining, even when I rewatch earlier episodes. I basically like Morgan only when he's around Rossi, who just kind of snarks with and at Morgan or cheerfully ignores him. Morgan means well, of course, but he's just so insufferably condescending and patronizing sometimes. I can't stand how he's always so very sure he knows what's best for everyone else---even when they didn't seek out his advice. I wouldn't mind these very relatable flaws if he had some other interesting qualities as well, but basically Morgan ranges from boring me to annoying me...and yet somehow I STILL like him a little more than JJ and Garcia :)   

 

The Morgan and Garcia banter, in addition to being pretty much insufferable, always felt really forced and unnatural to me---even in the earlier seasons. 

[SSAHotchner]

I liked Blake. But my favorites are Emily and Elle. I loved what someone (don't know if it was JT or the writers) tried to do with Alex by making her totally different from any other female character they had before, but she was a victim of awful writing, and perhaps Erica's not wanting her there in the first place. I loved her interactions with Reid, how supportive she was and how low key.

 

I think Emily had the best blend of professionalism, strength and vulnerability. Elle was really strong until she cracked. I loved some of her interactions with Gideon. The scene from Unfinished Business comes to mind when they're in Scott Harbin's home and grilling him and he gets upset and Elle verbally attacks him. Gideon asks if she's okay. She says, "What do you mean?" and Gideon says, "You got a little hot." Elle says, "Well, did I say anything that wasn't true?" "No." "Well, then I guess I'm fine."  I also like in Derailed when she calls Gideon "Dad." She had more of an edge to her than the other female characters, although the current JJ is trying hard to be edgy. :p

[dusang]

While I complain about this show's characterizations, they must be doing something right...however accidentally ;) I say that because Reid and Hotch and even Rossi (yeah, I know, talk about unpopular!) are all among my biggest TV crushes ever, and that's not even counting my unashamed "girlcrushes" on Elle and Emily and the aforementioned fondness for Alex and Kate. They're all characters who I love watching, discussing and speculating about, in spite of and even because of how minimally developed they often are on screen.

It seems like your crushes may be a function of the actor rather than the writers.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

It seems like your crushes may be a function of the actor rather than the writers.

 

And with that said, I will now take a deep breath and admit it here. I've crushed on Jeanne Tripplehorn since 95's Waterworld (shut up), and she was the only thing I really enjoyed about Big Love. I was so excited when I heard she was going to be joining the cast, and so disappointed when she got screwed over. I've resigned myself to never seeing Alex again, that like Paget, Jeanne has no reason to want to work with this regime again, and I regret knowing that something good could have come of her character, but the writers or whoever had no interest in making that happen.

[normasm]

I liked Blake. But my favorites are Emily and Elle. I loved what someone (don't know if it was JT or the writers) tried to do with Alex by making her totally different from any other female character they had before, but she was a victim of awful writing, and perhaps Erica's not wanting her there in the first place. I loved her interactions with Reid, how supportive she was and how low key.

 

I think Emily had the best blend of professionalism, strength and vulnerability. Elle was really strong until she cracked. I loved some of her interactions with Gideon. The scene from Unfinished Business comes to mind when they're in Scott Harbin's home and grilling him and he gets upset and Elle verbally attacks him. Gideon asks if she's okay. She says, "What do you mean?" and Gideon says, "You got a little hot." Elle says, "Well, did I say anything that wasn't true?" "No." "Well, then I guess I'm fine."  I also like in Derailed when she calls Gideon "Dad." She had more of an edge to her than the other female characters, although the current JJ is trying hard to be edgy. :p

SSAH, this whole post (you are very intuitive). Blake had started to be the alternate character to the JJ show, and the true friend to Reid. Emily had become that before they felt compelled to wreck her character in order to kick her out. Stupid, but couldn't be undone. I think the groundswell to bring JJ back was well-intentioned, but resulted in them making her SUPER!!!everything. 

 

Before all that, Elle treated him like a man, young, yes, but a man. She spoke to him as a good friend. Elle was complex, and they never explained why. Part of the eternal fascination of the character for me. It may not be popular, but i always thought Elle was the anti-Gideon. She pulled Reid in a different (and healthy) direction than did Gideon. Gideon thought he was something of a freak IMO, and wanted to have a master/protege relationship with him forever. When Reid chafed, Gideon yelled at him. It's as if he didn't want him to grow up. 

 

Although, I have to bring up the seminal scene in Jones, where Reid says to Gideon that he's struggling. Gideon immediately makes it about him. "I've played at this job…" And when Reid says he wondered if he could step away from the job, Gideon asks him, "And?" And when Reid says "I'll never miss a plane again," the look on Gideon's face, to me is one of "Oh, shit. What have i done to this kid?"

[vibeology]

I think the groundswell to bring JJ back was well-intentioned, but resulted in them making her SUPER!!!everything. 

 

As someone who was a fan of the original JJ, this is so very true. I loved early JJ. I liked that she had skills that no one on the team had. I really was interested in how victims families reacted to her. I never thought JJ was this open heart sort of person, but rather an professional who could empathize but stay detached. JJ looked like a sweet girl with the youth, the big eyes and the blonde hair so families opened up to her but she never really let cases touch her. I thought that made her an interesting, but somewhat flawed person. I liked that she was a crack shot, because of all the physical skills she could posses, that made some sense. And when she was forced off the show, I was pissed and was very much a part of the angry voices complaining about losing her and Emily.

 

But with her coming back, the writers basically rebooted her. She has the same face and name and she still has the kid and Will, but otherwise, its like she's been bodysnatched. I would rather the writers bring in someone new than do this to a character I found fascinating. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Before all that, Elle treated him like a man, young, yes, but a man. She spoke to him as a good friend. Elle was complex, and they never explained why. Part of the eternal fascination of the character for me. It may not be popular, but i always thought Elle was the anti-Gideon. She pulled Reid in a different (and healthy) direction than did Gideon.

 

That's interesting, normasm, and I'd never thought about it that way. As I said in the post above yours, I still wish that Alex had been what she could have been, but it was prickly, difficult Elle who did what she could to guide Reid in a way that his "actual" mentor never did. Until she started to fall apart, she always made time for Spencer and listened to him rather than direct the conversation to being about her. That's probably what lets retroactive shippers like myself see the potential for more than friendship between them, because she was the first one to really value him as a person.

[Knittzu]

Hey amensisterfriend,
I was looking at that thread earlier but didn’t post to it because I’m just not familiar enough with the episodes yet. I’ve only watched them each once, and many blur together in my mind. I’ll post a better answer there as I re-watch, but I can say for certain that I enjoyed seasons one through five far more than the later seasons, and that my favorite episodes are the ones that feature Reid. Not even necessarily the Reid-centric ones; just the ones where he interacts with various people and MGG gets a chance to demonstrate what a fantastic actor he is. An example that springs to mind is “The Uncanny Valley.” I loved watching him relate to different people on different levels while remaining completely IC.

 

I also really enjoy all the multi-part episodes and appreciated the show’s attempt at a season-long villain in S8. Since season one I've wished for longer storylines, for the writers to slow down and take their time to develop their ideas, their characters, and the aftermath of traumatic events.

 

I'm also geeky enough to be totally fascinated by her expertise in linguistics, and I absolutely hate that we didn't get to see more of it.  

 

 

Oh, same here! I also loved that she was a mature, professional adult who had her act together. I loved her scenes with Reid and that she treated him with the respect he's earned. I’m really going to miss that.

 

Not giving the agents better defined specialties, areas of expertise and even a few professional shortcomings is one of my biggest complaints about the show in general. I hate when the writers have the characters all spout totally random exposition about any given case with absolutely no regard to which character is uttering which line

 

 

I so agree. I know that Reid’s main specialty is geographic profiling and that’s been pretty consistently portrayed, but what are the other characters areas of expertise? I honestly have no idea. And at no point was the “random exposition about the case” more painfully obvious than when they had Ashley "Could the ten-year-old autistic child be the unsub?” Seaver stand up and deliver lines during the profiles. I also agree about cutting this team down. There’s too many of them, especially considering how little profiling is done these days.

 

I never much enjoyed the Garcia/Morgan banter, either. Granted it wasn't always as insufferable as it’s been during the most recent seasons, but I never bought that adults in the FBI would behave like that. I especially hate it during episodes where we’re getting cut-scenes of an innocent victim being tortured somewhere… and then cut back to the two of them wasting precious time with their shtick or Garcia’s endless phone-greetings. When someone is suffering, the very last thing I'm going to find charming is nonsense like "Helllllloooo my wonderful darlings whom I love with all my special heart, this is Garcia the amazing genius, queen of my kingdom and master of all that I survey! Oh, ooops, did I say MASTER? Gigggle-giggle-twitter! I'm so naughty, my chocolate love-doughnut!" etc.

 

[normasm]

Well, Knittzu, Reid's original specialty was psycholinguistics, and then geographic profiling. I remember it was the first time I ever heard of psycholinguistics, and I was in thrall.

Others have helped with the geographic profiling, notably Hotch, and I do like when they have a person lead a portion, but not be the total answer to the portion of the profile.

Edited October 20, 2014 by normasm

[antikking]

Garcia is nothing but a cartoon character with her magic computer

 

As a systems specialist this kind of thing drives me bonkers.  I was watching CM over the weekend, and happened upon the episode with the kidnapped father/daughter - I think it's called The Fight - where Garcia was instructed to find all cases where both the father and daughter didn't show up for work and school respectively.  I can't begin to tell you everything that's wrong with this scenario.  

 

First, schools generally don't have electronic attendance records.  Maybe some do, I am certain that most do not, as this isn't something that needs to be archived longer than one year.  I know the schools in my district user paper records and call the parent if the student does not show up.  But since teachers are busy, it can take awhile for the teacher to report to the office that a given student is missing.  

 

Second, I believe the dad in this case worked construction.  I GUARANTEE that 99% of construction firms don't track attendance in a computer system either.  At MOST, they have a timeclock with a polling system - that keeps electronic records but unless it was a huge firm, I sincerely doubt it.   Since construction oftentimes pays under the table, they aren't going to have all employees on the books in the first place, and they may be paying in cash.  In that case, employers aren't going to WANT employee records, and certainly not timekeeping records for employees paid off the books.  

 

Third, in order for Garcia to tap-tap-tap search for all employees who didn't show up for work, ALL employers would have to upload their attendance records into a SINGLE repository - like a data warehouse - and do it on a daily basis.  Then, and only then, could she search for people who didn't show up for work today - IF she had a password or a back door.  Without a single repository, she would have to hack EVERY SINGLE EMPLOYER SYSTEM SEPARATELY.  

 

This was absolutely ludicrous and isn't handwave-able in any universe that I can conceive of.  

 

There was another episode - the guy who wanted to go to Greece - in which she was supposed to go back 20+ years to get information.  She found news on the shuttle showing that it crashed on the way to the airport?!?  NO WAY NO HOW a news article like that from 20 years ago in a small town would have been pulled for archiving in an electronic format and placed online.  

 

And don't get me started on her ridiculously easy access to medical records.   Most small doctors offices don't keep electronic patient records and even if they did, they likely wouldn't do it in the same way.  So same issue as the construction records.  They would ALL have to be uploaded into a single repository otherwise she would have to hack every single one.  And even then, that assumes that each one captures say, prescription records, the same way otherwise she would be doing a keywords search of every data field.  Which would take DAYS, not minutes.  And that's not taking into account HIPAA (privacy laws) which make it harder, although not impossible, to crack security.  

 

All that aside, it makes a more interesting show to watch the profilers doing the sleuthing and coming up with the answers instead of relying on the magic computer.  I think the writers have lost sight of this concept and THAT's one of the biggest problems with this show in it's current incarnation.  

[Knittzu]

I don't think anyone brought this up, but at one point they fired her and brought on another actress who looked exactly like her, only younger. Many people wondered why they would fire A.J. and essentially hire her clone. I was one of those people. So what happened was, there was this huge fan uproar. So much so, they brought A.J. back. What might have happened was that they overestimated the character's popularity, so they made her more integral to the team.

 

 

It's funny, because in their attempt to make her more integral to the team, they actually made her LESS so -- at least iMO. They went to so much trouble in the early seasons to tell us how important the role of Media Liaison was to the team and how excellent she was at her job. I had no trouble at at buying that she was excellent at dealing with the media, presenting cases, etc. When they promoted her to profiler, she was just another in an already over-crowded room. Worse, she doesn't even have a nominal specialty, not even something as weak as "obsessional crimes." So I guess in order to compensate for that, they had to make her the best at absolutely everything... which makes her utterly ridiculous, the biggest Mary Sue I've ever seen in any television show. 

 

 

[Knittzu]

antikking -- Your entire post is part of the reason I watch this show with the assumption that it takes place in an alternate universe. There is NO WAY that Garcia tippity-tippity-taps onto a computer and unseals court records, slips past HIPAA, accesses databases that don't exist etc. No amount of her crowing about being a genius makes that level of access even possible, and certainly not at the same speed you or I might look up a restaurant on Google.

 

All that aside, it makes a more interesting show to watch the profilers doing the sleuthing and coming up with the answers instead of relying on the magic computer.

 

 

That's what this show is supposed to be about, right? Criminal Minds, not Garcia's Magical Computer. But it's much, much easier for the writers to have every case solved by magic than it is to weave a story where the profilers use unique skills to piece together disparate clues to solve a mystery.

[alexvillage]

More on Garcia's computer. It can also access information about a family where the father was not very nice to the son, and the mother was silent about the abuse, that some 30 years ago. the son is, of course, the unsub and the computer knows exactly where he is now, at this exact moment - this is not the actual preposterous scenario the writers presented, but there was something equally absurd in at least one episode.

 

As for JJ, things began to unravel in the episode when Garcia is shot and JJ shoots the unsub in the middle of the forehead, through a glass door, which I assume is not just a thin glass. And she didn't even blink.

[dusang]

More on Garcia's computer. It can also access information about a family where the father was not very nice to the son, and the mother was silent about the abuse, that some 30 years ago. the son is, of course, the unsub and the computer knows exactly where he is now, at this exact moment - this is not the actual preposterous scenario the writers presented, but there was something equally absurd in at least one episode.

 

As for JJ, things began to unravel in the episode when Garcia is shot and JJ shoots the unsub in the middle of the forehead, through a glass door, which I assume is not just a thin glass. And she didn't even blink.

 

Garcia's computer is SO RIDICULOUS!!  I think I have only once, in hundreds of hours of watching, heard her refer to something as not being digitized and therefore inaccessible.  Now, anyone who has ever used a database knows that even digitized data is not necessarily accessible.  Nevertheless -- computers = magic.

 

I actually liked JJ shooting the dude through the glass door.  I read it as she didn't blink when it came to take the shot (the guy was, I think, visibly holding hostages at that point) but was rattled in the aftermath and others offered her support.  At that point, to my mind, she was stepping up as part of the team and possibly redeeming herself after the Reid/hostage/dog debacle.  I haven't seen the episodes where she returned after the AJ firing debacle or any of her bin Laden assassination thing (seriously?) but there was an ep somewhere where she confronts an armed unsub with a hostage by herself, puts down her weapon, and then engages in hand-to-hand with a guy at least 100-pounds heavier and 6 inches taller than she and I thought, "WTF?!?!"  I'll take her shooting a dude from 20 feet over that shit any day.

[Old Dog]

Does anyone know which episode it was where JJ shot the unsub at long distance in the head when he was running away from her down the street? I think that was when I realised she was truly Superwoman. And I agree with all the comments about Garcia and her magic computer, Definitely an easy route for the writers to take.

[antikking]

LOL at this too:  It can also access information about a family where the father was not very nice to the son, and the mother was silent about the abuse, that some 30 years ago.  

 

I would love to see a comprehensive list of all the magic Garcia's computer has performed over the years!

 

So this is apparently quite the popular opinion :-)

Edited October 20, 2014 by antikking

[missmycat]

It's funny, because in their attempt to make her more integral to the team, they actually made her LESS so -- at least iMO. They went to so much trouble in the early seasons to tell us how important the role of Media Liaison was to the team and how excellent she was at her job. I had no trouble at at buying that she was excellent at dealing with the media, presenting cases, etc. When they promoted her to profiler, she was just another in an already over-crowded room. Worse, she doesn't even have a nominal specialty, not even something as weak as "obsessional crimes." So I guess in order to compensate for that, they had to make her the best at absolutely everything... which makes her utterly ridiculous, the biggest Mary Sue I've ever seen in any television show. 

I agree with this. I also believe the actress herself helped initiated these changes. In her mind CBS saw the original JJ as being irrelevant so the actress was fired.While I can sympathize with the way AJ Cook felt I think she and tptb went about it the wrong way.What they did, did not make the character of JJ more relevant in my eyes. She did however make the other profilers, (except Morgan,Messer made damn sure of that) less relevant than they were before, as does Garcia's stupid magic computer.

 

But most of all it would totally piss me off when I felt Reid was being dumb down just so they could show us how smart she was.For instant in the episode "The Uncanny Valley" Reid had been observant enough to see that Samantha had actually sewn the hair unto the head of that female victim.Fast forward two seasons later where Reid and the Mary Sue are out on the field together and they come upon the body of another female victim with a really bad haircut.And Reid makes the brilliant surmise that she probably cut it herself,leaving JJ having to correct him and tell him that it was done by the unsub. Another example which probably pissed me off even more was when Reid was doing a geographical profiling(his area of expertise) in that one scene and again she completely shows him up when she finds that heart he had overlooked.

 

Oh and I also believe that Erica Messer took full advantage of AJ Cook's insecurities. Messer originally wanted to keep Rachel Nichols. She had worked with the actress before on the show "Alias". So I can just imagine this show ruiner having all kinds of plans regarding the Seaver character. Of course that all went by the wayside after RN was let go. But did that stop Messer. Of course not.

All she did was to substitute the character of JJ. And she didn't seem to give a damn that she was completely retconning an already established canon character. And when enough pissed off and disappointed fans who had petitioned for JJ's return complained about it, EM and Company's answer was to come up with that totally ridiculous story line for JJ and wasting a once in a life time milestone episode in the process.

Edited October 20, 2014 by missmycat

[SSAHotchner]

More on Garcia's computer. It can also access information about a family where the father was not very nice to the son, and the mother was silent about the abuse, that some 30 years ago. the son is, of course, the unsub and the computer knows exactly where he is now, at this exact moment - this is not the actual preposterous scenario the writers presented, but there was something equally absurd in at least one episode.

 

As for JJ, things began to unravel in the episode when Garcia is shot and JJ shoots the unsub in the middle of the forehead, through a glass door, which I assume is not just a thin glass. And she didn't even blink.

I actually liked JJ shooting the guy in Penelope. I think that it showed she did possess the necessary FBI credentials/skills even though her role was not one that often required her to be in the field using her weapon.

 

I agree with everyone's comments about the magic computer, but what I especially hate about any scene where Garcia is finding info on her computer is her constant self-aggrandizing. She can't just give the information, she has to spend 2 minutes talking about how difficult it was to get and how only someone as wonderful and skilled as she could have gotten it.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

 but there was an ep somewhere where she confronts an armed unsub with a hostage by herself, puts down her weapon, and then engages in hand-to-hand with a guy at least 100-pounds heavier and 6 inches taller than she and I thought, "WTF?!?!"  I'll take her shooting a dude from 20 feet over that shit any day.

 

To be fair, the "tiny woman beats up a guy who's bigger and heavier than she is" is not a thing that started with JJ. River Tam, Aeryn Sun, and Sarah Connor were all under five-eight. Granted, I find it more annoying in JJ's case because this ability sprung up with her seemingly overnight, but it didn't originate with her.

[dusang]

To be fair, the "tiny woman beats up a guy who's bigger and heavier than she is" is not a thing that started with JJ. River Tam, Aeryn Sun, and Sarah Connor were all under five-eight. Granted, I find it more annoying in JJ's case because this ability sprung up with her seemingly overnight, but it didn't originate with her.

 

I know it isn't a new concept -- I watched Buffy religiously -- but those examples are all science fiction / fantasy.  Although several viewers have accepted CM exists in an Alternate Universe, we all know the key to a successful AU is consistent internal logic.  JJ not taking the clean shot she had and instead engaging in a physical altercation with the unsub is not consistent with the logic of this show or reality.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

 JJ not taking the clean shot she had and instead engaging in a physical altercation with the unsub is not consistent with the logic of this show or reality.

 

Fair enough, but if you want a more "realistic" example, Broken Mirror just ended, and five-eight Elle took down the UnSub after the guy Tased six-one Morgan. Granted, she kicked him in the kneecap, then swept his legs and pointed her weapon at him rather than literally beat him down, but still. Her I would be afraid of. ;-)

 

And speaking of Morgan, I just want to reach through my TV and hit him with something heavy when he drapes that whistle around Reid's neck in L.D.S.K., after Elle just said "Don't mention him failing his qualification because it will embarrass him." I'm pretty sure that's not unpopular, though.

[alexvillage]

I know JJ is skilled and a good shooter. My peeve is that to shoot the guy in the middle of the forehead THROUG a thick glass door is a little absurd. Wouldn't the bullet lose some of its power after going through the door? Anyway, maybe she aimed for the heart

[dusang]

I know JJ is skilled and a good shooter. My peeve is that to shoot the guy in the middle of the forehead THROUG a thick glass door is a little absurd. Wouldn't the bullet lose some of its power after going through the door? Anyway, maybe she aimed for the heart

 

Honestly, I doubt the glass would have much effect.  Bullets are shockingly powerful -- usually I'm more annoyed by people taking cover behind an upholstered couch or something as though that would deflect a bullet.  Honestly, I don't remember the angles of the shot overall but I know that police are trained to aim centre mass -- kill shots to the heart -- not the head, so that's a bit of bullshittery but I take no issue with the glass door.

 

I prefer Elle's fight to JJ's -- a friend of mine is taking Krav Maga and it's pretty redonk intense, she's regularly got crazy ass bruises all over.  She was saying that the general principle is usually "choke til you see foam," like do not leave your assailant conscious, but her instructor told her that no matter how well trained you are it's very difficult for a woman to beat up a man just on basic weight / height issues.  The instructor's advice was, "do three defensives and run."  So Elle fighting dirty and pulling her weapon seems more reasonable than JJ knocking a guy out with an effing spin kick.

Edited October 20, 2014 by dusang

[Knittzu]

Fast forward two seasons later where Reid and the Mary Sue are out on the field together and they come upon the body of another female victim with a really bad haircut. And Reid makes the brilliant surmise that she probably cut it herself, leaving JJ having to correct him and tell him that it was done by the unsub. Another example which probably pissed me off even more was when Reid was doing a geographical profiling(his area of expertise) in that one scene and again she completely shows him up when she finds that heart he had overlooked. (missmycat)

 

 

Oh man, I clearly remember being irritated by both of those scenes. The first because I didn't buy for a second that Reid wouldn't immediately realize that the unsub had cut the victim's hair. It's insulting to both the character and the audience to pretend that he would in order to prop up their Mary Sue. JJ stepping in and showing us that she's actually a better geographic profiler than Reid was enough to make me shut off that episode for the night. Espeically when she found a heart. A heart! Of course Mary Sue solves the case by finding A HEART.

 

what I especially hate about any scene where Garcia is finding info on her computer is her constant self-aggrandizing. She can't just give the information, she has to spend 2 minutes talking about how difficult it was to get and how only someone as wonderful and skilled as she could have gotten it. (SSAHotchner)

 

 

Imagine if other characters were doing that:

 

"Before I kick down this door, let me first tell you all that this is actually really HARD. I make it look easy because I spend six hours a night at the gym! Working out! With weights! Not just anyone could do this, kids. I am very special and ultra-super-strong! Watch the way my muscles ripple!" 

"Yes, I read the note and analyzed the unsub's handwriting... which, by the way, I could only do because I am a GENIUS with six degrees and a mind that puts a computer to shame! I make it look simple, but that's only because I am super-supper smart! And educated! Tee-hee, aren't I cute?"

 

Their co-workers and random bystanders would murder them all.

 

[SSAHotchner]

 

Fair enough, but if you want a more "realistic" example, Broken Mirror just ended, and five-eight Elle took down the UnSub after the guy Tased six-one Morgan. Granted, she kicked him in the kneecap, then swept his legs and pointed her weapon at him rather than literally beat him down, but still. Her I would be afraid of. ;-)

 

And speaking of Morgan, I just want to reach through my TV and hit him with something heavy when he drapes that whistle around Reid's neck in L.D.S.K., after Elle just said "Don't mention him failing his qualification because it will embarrass him." I'm pretty sure that's not unpopular, though.

Don't forget when Elle put her foot on the unsub's crotch in Broken Mirror. One of my favorite moments. :)

[Knittzu]

 

I also think the reason they have Garcia talking about her awesomeness, is because they realize how freaking ridiculous it is for her to pull three random, useless facts together and come up with exact information. 

 

Definitely. They seem to think they can just lampshade this nonsense and the audience is automatically going to be fine with it week after week after week. Well, clearly a lot of their audience IS okay with it, but for me it just makes Garcia even more annoying. If something in your writing is so ludicrous that you have to lampshade it every single week, then that's a clear sign there's problem that needs to be fixed! 

 

...but what do I know? They're the ones making big bucks as professionals.

[zannej]

Some great discussion so far.

In the pilot, Reid was introduced as "the expert on everything" by Hotch. He could read body language very well, did handwriting analysis, he's probably a handwriting expert in terms of determining who wrote something, geographical profiling, etc. He was initially good with computers. Garcia actually made a comment about how her father said she wasn't that bright-- so she was good at hacking but was not a genius.

Since I watched Farscape I have to point out that Aeryn Sun was an alien (although she looked human) and Claudia Black sold the fight scenes well. I know that Xena wasn't mentioned, but despite the fact that Lucy Lawless didn't sell the fight scenes all that well, the show had enough camp to let the viewers buy that she was so badass.

I remember the arguments that the CM people had when fans objected to Seaver. They dismissed it as people hating her because she replaced JJ and they insisted she wasn't a replacement. They completely ignored the fact that quite a few fans (myself included) objected to her because the character didn't fit in the CM world and had no business being on the team. They even had to take a jab at Reid to put her over as a way to try to make it seem ok for her to join the team (they had Reid claim he couldn't do anything that wasn't book-learned and had to be excused from all the physical stuff-- which is total BS because being a genius is so much more than book-learning; it involves a lot of problem solving, strategy, and quick assessment).

If Seaver had been an agent who actually had some skill that made her qualified-- and being the daughter of a serial killer is not a skill-- and had been written consistently instead of all over the map (one minute she's asking dumb newb questions and the next she's delivering the profile like an expert) it might not have been so bad. I actually like the actress-- she seems like a very sweet woman and the way CBS fired her was really shitty. Basically she went away on a vacation during hiatus and found out via Twitter that CBS had fired her- they didn't have the decency to tell her themselves.

 

As for the computer stuff, it amuses me how Garcia can find certain things because I've had experiences with very bad computer glitches and poor record keeping. My medical records have been lost multiple times. One time the database wiped my name from the records and had my father listed as being married to himself. I think it was on the IMDB that someone made a comment about how bizzare the search parameters were and joked that they would say something like (and I'm paraphrasing here) "Garcia, find every redheaded cancer patient with a third nipple who has daddy issues".

 

I found it especially annoying how the CM people handled the reaction to the newJJ and especially "200". AJ was spouting off saying that JJ was well-liked and that the people who didn't like her just didn't like change (completely dismissing that there were valid reasons for fans to dislike the transformation). The writer for "200" actually deleted his Twitter account briefly and did not take the criticism well at all. Other CM people defended "200" and the new JJ by insulting the fans. One of the producers dismissed the people who didn't like "200" as "an extreme minority".

 

The original showrunner was a former cop so he knew what it was like to be in law enforcement and work cases. The current one was basically an assistant and then co-wrote episodes with a more talented writer and then took over as the executive producer and was writing solo. The intermediate showrunner doesn't even watch the show now.

 

I forgot to mention that I felt sorry for the remaining writers in seasons 5 and 6 because they were thrown some curve balls. Aside from the firings in season 5, two of the actors had broken legs. Shemar Moore was hit by a car and disguised the break with a walking cast-- but he couldn't kick down doors. Gubler dislocated his knee so hard he tore his ACL and broke off a piece of bone and was actually in a wheelchair when the season first started so they had to find ways to make it look like he wasn't injured. He was on some pretty strong painkillers and had a hard time concentrating so he probably couldn't remember as many lines-- but he said on Twitter that his injury had little to do with his reduced screentime on the show. I did find it ironic that Reid refused narcotics while the actor playing him was having to take them. Season 6, as I mentioned, was CBS started dicking around with the formula and firing actresses and generally being jerks. 

 

Sorry for the rambling. LOL.

Edited October 21, 2014 by zannej

[normasm]

Some great discussion so far.

In the pilot, Reid was introduced as "the expert on everything" by Hotch. He could read body language very well, did handwriting analysis, he's probably a handwriting expert in terms of determining who wrote something, geographical profiling, etc. He was initially good with computers. Garcia actually made a comment about how her father said she wasn't that bright-- so she was good at hacking but was not a genius.

 

As for the computer stuff, it amuses me how Garcia can find certain things because I've had experiences with very bad computer glitches and poor record keeping. My medical records have been lost multiple times. One time the database wiped my name from the records and had my father listed as being married to himself. I think it was on the IMDB that someone made a comment about how bizzare the search parameters were and joked that they would say something like (and I'm paraphrasing here) "Garcia, find every redheaded cancer patient with a third nipple who has daddy issues".

 

I found it especially annoying how the CM people handled the reaction to the newJJ and especially "200". AJ was spouting off saying that JJ was well-liked and that the people who didn't like her just didn't like change (completely dismissing that there were valid reasons for fans to dislike the transformation). The writer for "200" actually deleted his Twitter account briefly and did not take the criticism well at all. Other CM people defended "200" and the new JJ by insulting the fans. One of the producers dismissed the people who didn't like "200" as "an extreme minority".

 

The original showrunner was a former cop so he knew what it was like to be in law enforcement and work cases. The current one was basically an assistant and then co-wrote episodes with a more talented writer and then took over as the executive producer and was writing solo. The intermediate showrunner doesn't even watch the show now.

 

Sorry for the rambling. LOL.

I love your ramblings, zannej. Especially to your points about Reid and Garcia, it seems to me that Reid started perhaps too "gifted" and they started siphoning off his expertise, starting with him magically not being able to work them computers. He could "read body language very well," which gives lie to TPTB's efforts later on to obliquely imply he's autistic or Asperger's. The only thing you mentioned, his expertise in graphology, hasn't been handed off to anyone, but no one knows what it is anyway.

[Knittzu]

Since I watched Farscape I have to point out that Aeryn Sun was an alien (although she looked human) and Claudia Black sold the fight scenes well.

 

 

Hello fellow Farscape fan! I was recently thinking about the “family” on this show compared to the one on Farscape, but I suppose that discussion would take me too far off-topic. Anyhow, you are right -- unlike JJ, Aeryn was an alien, AND she had been raised to be a soldier since birth. I had no problem at all with her unique physical abilities. JJ’s ninja skills just suddenly appeared out of absolute nowhere.

 

If Seaver had been an agent who actually had some skill that made her qualified-- and being the daughter of a serial killer is not a skill-- and had been written consistently instead of all over the map (one minute she's asking dumb newb questions and the next she's delivering the profile like an expert) it might not have been so bad.

 

 

I liked the actress too and holy cow, I had no idea she learned that she'd lost her job over freaking Twitter. That’s awful, not to mention completely unprofessional. But you’ve summed it up perfectly. I had no problem with her being blonde and pretty; that’s hardly unique among North American actresses. What infuriated me was that canonically, the BAU is an elite team. Hotch didn’t even think Emily was qualified at first! But a raw cadet could just waltz in and nobody (not even question-everything Morgan) had the slightest objection. That didn't just stretch my suspension of disbelief, it shattered it entirely. The scenes where she was standing up and giving parts of the profile were positively surreal. 

 

…and don’t even get my started on how they decided to show that she was really “one of the team” by bullying Reid. That "sorry I asked" scene still makes my blood boil.

 

One of the producers dismissed the people who didn't like "200" as "an extreme minority".

 

 

At this point I have read enough fan comments to know this is absolutely 100 percent BS. Most people seem to be in agreement that it was by far the worst episode of the entire series. I know I’ll never watch it again — just once was almost enough to make me stroke out over the stupidity.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Since I watched Farscape I have to point out that Aeryn Sun was an alien (although she looked human) and Claudia Black sold the fight scenes well. I know that Xena wasn't mentioned, but despite the fact that Lucy Lawless didn't sell the fight scenes all that well, the show had enough camp to let the viewers buy that she was so badass.

 

[OT]Good point about Aeryn, zaneej, although the reason I mentioned her initially is because I didn't discover until this morning that Danai Gurira, who plays The Walking Dead's Michonne, is five-seven. :-P [/OT]

 

It seems to be a UO that I didn't hate Seaver, although "Sorry I asked" did make me wish she'd fall down a manhole with JJ "micro-expressions" Jareau. I don't know what writer finds it amusing to always have Reid be the subject of ridicule, but it quit being cute ages ago.

[JMO]

I've just read through a few days of this----it's been pretty active!  There's too much to address anything specifically, so I will just make a few general remarks:

 

It's interesting that there is so much consensus in the 'Unpopular Opinions' thread.  Does that mean it needs a new name?

 

I remember quite a few 'facts' regarding writers, showrunners, actors/actresses differently from how they have been recalled by others.  Without going back to research them to see which of us remember them correctly, I would just caution everyone to take all of this in with a grain of salt.  Don't get excited, outraged, disappointed, or elated, over something that may not be real.  Sometimes I think we need a 'snopes' page just for CM!

 

I just went Reid-like and tried to calculate how representative the opinions on this site might be (on vacation---don't I have anything better to do?).  I looked at the latest numbers for the premiere, and then at the 'plus 7' additions, chose a median number of 14 million.  Then started adding up how many different posters this board seems to have.  I know there are other boards, but I also know there is overlap among the posters.  So I took us as a representative sample, and generously decided we are about 30 (we're actually closer to 20).  Which makes us 2 one-thousandths of one percent of the viewers (.002%).

 

Which leads me to say that, if the show personnel are at all open to persuasion, it won't be through the sheer numbers of people who would like to see changes.  It will have to be through well-reasoned and stated reactions and suggestions.  We have them on here, but they get lost in a sea of discontent. 

 

Do we need a thread of helpful suggestions?

 

 

 

 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I remember quite a few 'facts' regarding writers, showrunners, actors/actresses differently from how they have been recalled by others.  Without going back to research them to see which of us remember them correctly, I would just caution everyone to take all of this in with a grain of salt.  Don't get excited, outraged, disappointed, or elated, over something that may not be real.  Sometimes I think we need a 'snopes' page just for CM!

 

Admittedly, JustMyOpinion, my impressions are exactly that, and they might have nothing to do with actual reality. But as it relates to what I see of the finished product, IMO it can't be disputed that Erica Messer has made a mess (sorry) of the show. Through favoritism, through not being willing to let go of weak writers, through only wanting to hear the good stuff about what she's done, etc. I'm sure she means well, and I don't think she set out to do a bad job, and yet. I have no idea what really went on behind the scenes. I don't know the actual reasons of why Jeanne Tripplehorn, who I think is a better actress than AJ Cook, got such short shrift while JJ seemed to be everywhere at once, and I don't think it was some kind of Machiavellian plot on Messer's behalf. Although it was Erica's decision to kill off Erin Strauss, leaving Alex without that piece of her backstory explored. But not being amazingly competent isn't the same thing as being diabolical. I don't even blame AJ, although IMO she's the only one who really reaped the benefits of what I see as EM not being overwhelmingly good at her job. That's just my take on it, though.

[Knittzu]

I remember quite a few 'facts' regarding writers, showrunners, actors/actresses differently from how they have been recalled by others.  Without going back to research them to see which of us remember them correctly, I would just caution everyone to take all of this in with a grain of salt.  Don't get excited, outraged, disappointed, or elated, over something that may not be real.

 

 

Good point. For example, I read a quote in a thread here a few days ago that upset me — and then I stumbled on the original source and what the cast member actually said was completely different than what was quoted.

 

if the show personnel are at all open to persuasion, it won't be through the sheer numbers of people who would like to see changes.  It will have to be through well-reasoned and stated reactions and suggestions.  We have them on here, but they get lost in a sea of discontent.

 

In my experience, people only change things when they’re motivated to do so. With the kids on Tumblr/Twitter praising the Morgan/JJ/Garcia show to the heavens and their continued high ratings, I have my doubts that the CM writers are interested in minority opinions. And, if they are, I’m not really interested in stripping away my discontent in order to sanitize them. They’re adults, right? I think they can handle reading some emotional reactions to things people don’t enjoy.

 

Honestly, 90 percent of my suggestions would boil down to one simple thing: Stop being so lazy. Stop using Garcia’s computer skillz to magically solve every case. Start keeping (or reading) bibles of previously established canon so you don’t contract yourselves with episodes like The Black Queen. Stop resolving every character’s problems within a single episode by means of a Hallmark moment at the end. Etc.

 

This reminds me of another show I used to watch, Supernatural. Granted I stopped watching several seasons ago so I can’t talk about recent episodes, but I know that at certain points in the show’s run, the writers & showrunner got together and agreed that some story elements were simply making the cases too easy for the main characters to solve. There was a lodge filled with know-all experts that they could call upon for help — the writers decided to blow the place sky-high so they would stop relying on such easy solutions. Then they had a character called Bobby who was the show’s Garcia for many seasons, and they eventually decided that he also needed to go because they were again falling into the trap of lazy writing. Although I was pretty much done with the show by the time they took Bobby out of the equation, I still admired them for their ability to take a hard look at what they were doing and for their willingness to work harder.

[alexvillage]

Unpopular opinion: I don't really like Hotch. The scene on the episode where Reid is abducted (sorry, bad with episode names) and he sends messages via computer screen, and then Hotch asks to his fellow profilers about his "problems" and they started listing them? I could list a lot more. 

I used to like TG in Dharma and Greg but never found him "sexy" either. And when there were comments about Emily and Hotch being "made for each other" I cringed. In my mind, Emily deserves much better.

I would go bananas working for someone as stiff as self-righteous as Hotch.

I admit to be less tough on the character earlier. The awfulness of the writing might nave contributed to my deeper disliking 

[dusang]

Honestly, 90 percent of my suggestions would boil down to one simple thing: Stop being so lazy. Stop using Garcia’s computer skillz to magically solve every case. Start keeping (or reading) bibles of previously established canon so you don’t contract yourselves with episodes like The Black Queen. Stop resolving every character’s problems within a single episode by means of a Hallmark moment at the end. Etc.

 

 

It's interesting that there is so much consensus in the 'Unpopular Opinions' thread.  Does that mean it needs a new name?

 

I guess it could be said that a thoughtful, reasoned approach to television is itself the Unpopular Opinion -- the masses enjoy the shite that we are kvetching about here and lazy showrunners and writers are willing to provide that.

[normasm]

Yeah, dusang, since we are in an "extreme minority" any opinion we have is unpopular!

[normasm]

Oh, Sweet, I would totally love to see them reinvent Rossi's role, he's invaluable to the BAU, but too old to be in the field. Why can't they invent some consultant role that puts him onsite but doesn't allow him in the takedowns? I'm old enough to know the limitations of age chafe at first, and then, one gets the real taste of why there are age limitations in certain jobs. 

 

Would being realistic about Dave's age be any less compelling than having him going out and running around with a gun?

[SSAHotchner]

Unpopular opinion: I don't really like Hotch. The scene on the episode where Reid is abducted (sorry, bad with episode names) and he sends messages via computer screen, and then Hotch asks to his fellow profilers about his "problems" and they started listing them? I could list a lot more. 

I used to like TG in Dharma and Greg but never found him "sexy" either. And when there were comments about Emily and Hotch being "made for each other" I cringed. In my mind, Emily deserves much better.

I would go bananas working for someone as stiff as self-righteous as Hotch.

I admit to be less tough on the character earlier. The awfulness of the writing might nave contributed to my deeper disliking 

Alexvillage, when I first started watching it was on ION. The first ep I saw was Penelope. I didn't even realize the show was still on in prime time on CBS. I started watching on ION and A&E and eventually just bought all the DVDs to catch up. Anyway, because I didn't see seasons one or two for awhile, I would say to my son that Hotch was the only one I didn't really like. He was grim and demanding. Once I caught up with all the episodes from seasons 1-5, I fell in love with Hotch. I don't even know when or why, it just happened. Then I started looking for other things TG was in to see what he was like in other roles. I can understand that everyone has a different opinion. Maybe it's because I married a single dad so I kind of empathized with Hotch after Haley was killed. I don't know, but I'm just crazy about him now.

 

On the other hand, I've never been fond of Morgan, but he has tons of fans. I used to love Garcia, but I can't stand her now. I used to defend JJ to all the folks who thought she was boring and unnecessary. Now she irritates the living daylights out of me. It's okay if you don't love every character, but you're right about the awful writing making it harder and harder for us to love them.

Oh, Sweet, I would totally love to see them reinvent Rossi's role, he's invaluable to the BAU, but too old to be in the field. Why can't they invent some consultant role that puts him onsite but doesn't allow him in the takedowns? I'm old enough to know the limitations of age chafe at first, and then, one gets the real taste of why there are age limitations in certain jobs. 

 

Would being realistic about Dave's age be any less compelling than having him going out and running around with a gun?

Yes. I love the way they keep playing with his hair, too. It goes from black to grey and back every other season it seems. Even if they didn't promote him, he could be in the field consulting, but not run around waving his gun, although I'd rather see him take down an unsub than JJ or Morgan.

[Knittzu]

Would being realistic about Dave's age be any less compelling than having him going out and running around with a gun? (normasm)

 

 

I’m sure that this is a TINY minority opinion, but I’d prefer that none of them were running around with guns. Or at least not in every single episode. I’d prefer that their job be to profile the unsub, then turn the matter over to the local LE. I know this is television and people expect running/ninja kicking/guns firing all over the place, but wouldn't it be refreshing to watch them just profile every once in a while?

 

Unpopular opinion: I don't really like Hotch. The scene on the episode where Reid is abducted (sorry, bad with episode names) and he sends messages via computer screen, and then Hotch asks to his fellow profilers about his "problems" and they started listing them? I could list a lot more. (alexvillage)

 

 

LOL! That was a good scene. I’m going to have to watch it again.

 

I liked Hotch in the beginning, but at this point he’s barely on the show. There was a time when he felt like a real leader — strong, certain, able to keep on top of both the cases and his manage his team, all without any speechifying or over-acting. Now, if you just watch a random episode from season six on, you’d never guess he was actually the team's leader. We’re reached the point where freaking JJ is the one who declares “it’s time to give the profile.”

 

What annoys me about Hotch is his willingness to let Garcia break the law just about every single week with her magical hacking. Just because she can somehow dig into private things doesn’t mean she should be allowed to do so. He should have shut that nonesense down that a long time ago. Remember how angry he was at JJ’s temporary replacement for telling a lie about her background to a victim’s family? Remember that whole shaming speech he gave her about her behavior reflecting badly on the department, which had to uphold the highest standards, and so on? And yet he looks the other way every week while Garcia breaks god-only-knows how many laws. Honestly she should be in prison by now for her various shenanigans. Does the FBI have no oversight at all?

 

[SSAHotchner]

Sweettooth, that episode was The Edge of Winter and was one of the few decent episodes last season. Yes, it was great and felt more like the CM of old. I didn't even mind that it was Morgan-centric because you could see how the girl in the hospital would relate much easier and be attracted to Morgan more than anyone else on the team.