Season 18: Jack McCoy, D.A.

[Xeliou66]

12 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

It's not illegal but it's really slimy. I didn't like it either. There's also a chance that he might turn off the other jurors doing that. My guess is Melinda thought she was too smart to get upset during the Cross. I can't see Rothenberg not have warned her about that.

 

I don't like that either. She really does come off as a hypocrite because she went off on another therapist for sleeping with her patient. But at the same time I really can't see Olivet to ever do something like that. We saw her worried about not paying attention to a patient after her rape. I can't someone like that crossing a line and sleeping with a patient. 

Yeah Cutter just wasn’t likable at times, and he was wrong to manipulate Connie in this episode. Sometimes I felt like Cutter would do anything to win and was overly cocky - he just isn’t my favorite, he had good moments and episodes, and I do give him something of a break because it’s impossible to have another character as great as Jack McCoy and Ben Stone were in the lead prosecutor role, but Cutter had some unlikeable traits. Tango was a pretty good episode - a lot of slimy people in it as I said, and it was a good case, but Cutter got on my nerves.

Yeah Olivet looked really bad in Betrayal, because she was strongly condemning sex between a patient and therapist and then we find out she crossed that line herself, it made her look hypocritical and borderline unethical. I do like Olivet overall but this was a really bad episode for her, and it also made her look hypocritical with how she was in the season 3 episode Promises to Keep, pushing for charging the shrink who was sleeping with the murderer patient. I have a feeling Olivet’s relationship with Logan took place before Olivet was assaulted by the creep doctor, probably in season 2 shortly after Greevey’s murder. But Jack was absolutely right to inform Cutter so he could destroy Olivet’s credibility, Olivet was wrong to go to bat for the defense just because she didn’t like the expert the prosecution called.

[Xeliou66]

I watched Strike last night - this is a really good episode overall and very interesting watching Cutter and Rubirosa be pitted against each other in court. Rubirosa did a great job as a defense attorney - she is one of my favorites. I love Jack chewing out the ADA who was giving Connie grief about representing the defendant - Jack was right that Connie was just doing her job and it’s just as important to have good defense attorneys as good prosecutors, it’s what makes the system work, and I loved him threatening to put people on traffic court if they gave Connie crap. It was a good twist that Sanderson masterminded his wife’s murder and was a cold blooded sociopath.

I have to say though, the police didn’t look good in this episode, especially Bernard. Bernard’s stunt planting the nail to get Sanderson to admit he was at the scene was sort of OOC for Bernard, as was his outburst on the witness stand, Bernard looked borderline incompetent, not to mention he seemed to have it in for Sanderson despite the forensic evidence proving he didn’t murder his wife. Not to mention they were way off base with motive, first they thought Sanderson was going to shoot up the courthouse, even though there was absolutely no evidence of it, then after figuring out their victim killed Sanderson’s wife they assumed it was for revenge, and at the end no one besides Connie knew the true motive behind the murder, although I think Jack suspected something. I like the episode and particularly the legal stuff but Bernard looked like a dumbass in it - I don’t know if they just didn’t know how to write Bernard yet since it was only his third episode or what but he came off as an ass. 

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I watched Strike last night - this is a really good episode overall and very interesting watching Cutter and Rubirosa be pitted against each other in court. Rubirosa did a great job as a defense attorney - she is one of my favorites. I love Jack chewing out the ADA who was giving Connie grief about representing the defendant - Jack was right that Connie was just doing her job and it’s just as important to have good defense attorneys as good prosecutors, it’s what makes the system work, and I loved him threatening to put people on traffic court if they gave Connie crap. It was a good twist that Sanderson masterminded his wife’s murder and was a cold blooded sociopath.

I really liked Connie having to represent the defendent. That made things really interesting. I like that she took her job seriously. The other lawyers shouldn't have given her any grief. It's would be weird but yeah she's just doing her job. The judge is the one that had her do that. It's not like she volunteered. Sanderson was a pretty smart murderer. I agree about Bernard. He shouldn't have done that.

[Xeliou66]

18 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I really liked Connie having to represent the defendent. That made things really interesting. I like that she took her job seriously. The other lawyers shouldn't have given her any grief. It's would be weird but yeah she's just doing her job. The judge is the one that had her do that. It's not like she volunteered. Sanderson was a pretty smart murderer. I agree about Bernard. He shouldn't have done that.

Yeah it was a good premise for the episode to have Connie and Mike pitted against each other in court. Connie did a really good job, she’s probably my favorite of the second chair ADAs. I liked Jack in this one a lot and he was right to chew out the lawyers who were giving Connie grief. 
Something just seemed off with Bernard in the episode, it was weird how he was so certain Sanderson did it and thought he was getting away with murder even though forensics proved he didn’t kill his wife, and it seemed like the police would’ve been able to uncover a connection between Sanderson and the victim once they figured out the victim killed Sanderson’s wife. It was interesting in that even when the episode was finished the police and DA’s still didn’t know the real motive behind the murder, only Connie knew, Jack suspected I believe but he obviously couldn’t ask Connie about it. But Bernard just seemed unlike himself and was unlikable in this episode.

[Xeliou66]

I love the episode Illegal from this season, it’s my favorite from season 18, such a great feature for Jack. Jack taking the stand as a rebuttal witness after that turd Latham threw him under the bus was great, I loved his testimony “where there’s a law I’ll enforce it, where there’s a crime I’ll prosecute it, and where there’s a victim I’ll speak for that victim” - awesome statement from Jack. I also loved when Jack chewed Latham out for tanking the case at the grand jury and fired him when Latham gave him attitude and told him he couldn’t be trusted - very satisfying to see. 
Very compelling case with the reckless auxiliary cop, and I liked how Cutter and Lupo got the new evidence against the officer after Latham tanked the grand jury. I also liked the scene between Lupo and Van Buren where Lupo talked about how his past would get brought up and Van Buren assured him she had confidence in him - Lupo’s past struggles with PTSD/alcohol were explored in more detail in season 20’s Steel Eyed Death. I liked the mutual trust and respect Van Buren and Lupo had. I wish there were more episodes with the Green/Lupo detective pairing, they were really good together.

It’s my favorite episode from season 18, and it’s an awesome one for Jack.

Edited January 10 by Xeliou66

[andromeda331]

On 1/9/2024 at 5:17 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I love the episode Illegal from this season, it’s my favorite from season 18, such a great feature for Jack. Jack taking the stand as a rebuttal witness after that turd Latham threw him under the bus was great, I loved his testimony “where there’s a law I’ll enforce it, where there’s a crime I’ll prosecute it, and where there’s a victim I’ll speak for that victim” - awesome statement from Jack. I also loved when Jack chewed Latham out for tanking the case at the grand jury and fired him when Latham gave him attitude and told him he couldn’t be trusted - very satisfying to see. 
Very compelling case with the reckless auxiliary cop, and I liked how Cutter and Lupo got the new evidence against the officer after Latham tanked the grand jury. I also liked the scene between Lupo and Van Buren where Lupo talked about how his past would get brought up and Van Buren assured him she had confidence in him - Lupo’s past struggles with PTSD/alcohol were explored in more detail in season 20’s Steel Eyed Death. I liked the mutual trust and respect Van Buren and Lupo had. I wish there were more episodes with the Green/Lupo detective pairing, they were really good together.

It’s my favorite episode from season 18, and it’s an awesome one for Jack.

I love Jack testifying and Latham calling him backfired. Ah, he's a very good lawyer with a very good success rate. I love Jack firing him. That was a great scene. What did Latham think was goinhg to happen? Jack has proved that he goes after anyone who commits a crime no matter their wealth, politics or religion. I like Van Buren and Lupo talking and her helping him with his concern. She's not wrong Lennie overcame his drinking problem.

[Xeliou66]

20 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I love Jack testifying and Latham calling him backfired. Ah, he's a very good lawyer with a very good success rate. I love Jack firing him. That was a great scene. What did Latham think was goinhg to happen? Jack has proved that he goes after anyone who commits a crime no matter their wealth, politics or religion. I like Van Buren and Lupo talking and her helping him with his concern. She's not wrong Lennie overcame his drinking problem.

Yeah Jack’s testimony was awesome, one of his best moments really and he’s had a lot of great ones. 
I wonder why Jack put Latham in charge of the riot case? Did Jack not know about Latham’s extreme bias towards cops, or was Jack seeing if Latham would be able to do his job without bias? 
It’s a great episode for Jack, and it’s my personal favorite episode of season 18.

I always liked the relationship between Van Buren and Lupo, they had a lot of mutual respect, it was nice to see a detective who had a strong relationship with Van Buren again given that Cassady didn’t have a strong relationship with her and her and Fontana were kind of shaky at times as well. Lupo is an underrated character IMO, I really like him, I thought he was a very good addition to the show and I liked his partnerships with both Green and Bernard. 

[Xeliou66]

Strike is such an interesting episode with Connie representing the defendant due to the strike - I like it a lot because it was good to see Connie use her skills as a lawyer in a different way here and hold her own against Cutter - Connie is my favorite of the second chair prosecutors and I honestly wish she had been promoted to lead prosecutor when Jack became DA - that would’ve been great, Cutter just gets on my nerves much of the time, he’s so cocky and smug and resorted to trickery way too often. He just rubs me the wrong way so frequently.

The twist that Sanderson killed the victim because he paid him to kill his wife and wanted to silence him was good. I just didn’t get why Bernard was so adamant on believing Sanderson was guilty when he had been exonerated of his wife’s murder by DNA - it felt like Bernard was harassing him without any cause - he turned out to be correct about Sanderson doing the murder but he zeroed in on him for no reason. And it’s very interesting how they constantly got the motive wrong and never got it right - only Connie knew the true motive at the end, everyone else would believe Sanderson did it out of revenge, although I think Jack suspected the true reason.    
I loved the scenes between Jack/Connie in this episode, first when Jack berates the others for giving Connie grief over defending the perp and later when Connie asks Jack for advice about how to deal with what she knows about her client. 
It’s a really good episode but I guess they were still figuring out how to write Bernard because he didn’t seem like himself here. Connie’s cross of Bernard was strong, but Bernard losing his cool didn’t seem like him. 

Personae Non Gratae is kind of a weird episode, both Donna and Bob were completely fucking nuts and it was creepy how they found the daughter’s remains and Cutter bringing them in to his office to get Bob to wake up and see the truth was an effective move. 

Excalibur, the season finale, is finishing up now, about the prostitution ring that Shalvoy was a client of. Interesting enough case but I had a couple of questions - how did the hooker Shalvoy was sleeping with not know who Shalvoy was? He was a very public figure, it seemed strange she would have no idea she was sleeping with the NY governor, seems like she would’ve seen his picture somewhere even if Shalvoy didn’t tell her who she was. And I thought it was a bit odd that Jack went to Shalvoy first before telling Cutter that Shalvoy was the client - just seemed a bit odd to me that Jack wouldn’t let Mike in on it, and this was one time I thought Mike was right to get irritated with Jack. Jack acknowledged that he let sentiment cloud his judgment and he shouldn’t have trusted Shalvoy - I liked when Jack said he would rather be unemployed than be a well fed pet and his disgust when he said “I trusted you, Donald. I trusted you”. 
And I had some trouble believing that the killer would plead guilty basically to protect Shalvoy’s interests - did Rita Shalvoy really promise that her husband would commute the perp’s sentence at some point? She was just as scummy as her husband so maybe she promised it without ever intending to keep it. The perp might’ve walked if he hadn’t pled guilty and I doubt Shalvoy would immediately commute the perp’s sentence given that it would be a terrible look for him, so the perp probably wound up having to do the whole sentence since Shalvoy would be out of office in about a year. It felt like a plot device just to keep Shalvoy from having to leave office because they wanted to keep him around for season 19, and while I get that they wanted to extend his story I just wasn’t convinced about the perp pleading guilty when he would likely walk. 

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Strike is such an interesting episode with Connie representing the defendant due to the strike - I like it a lot because it was good to see Connie use her skills as a lawyer in a different way here and hold her own against Cutter - Connie is my favorite of the second chair prosecutors and I honestly wish she had been promoted to lead prosecutor when Jack became DA - that would’ve been great, Cutter just gets on my nerves much of the time, he’s so cocky and smug and resorted to trickery way too often. He just rubs me the wrong way so frequently.

I really wish they made Connie first chair when Jack moved up too. She's such a good lawyer and much more interesting then Cutter. Also, it would have been nice to see a second chair move up to the first. We've never had that on the show. Cutter was okay but he annoyed me at times too.

Quote

Excalibur, the season finale, is finishing up now, about the prostitution ring that Shalvoy was a client of. Interesting enough case but I had a couple of questions - how did the hooker Shalvoy was sleeping with not know who Shalvoy was? He was a very public figure, it seemed strange she would have no idea she was sleeping with the NY governor, seems like she would’ve seen his picture somewhere even if Shalvoy didn’t tell her who she was. And I thought it was a bit odd that Jack went to Shalvoy first before telling Cutter that Shalvoy was the client - just seemed a bit odd to me that Jack wouldn’t let Mike in on it, and this was one time I thought Mike was right to get irritated with Jack

There's no way the hooker didn't know who Shalvoy was. Sleeping with the governor? She would have been making the most of that with money, gifts, etc. I didn't like Jack going to Shalvoy either. It was wrong and Jack should have known better. 

[Xeliou66]

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I really wish they made Connie first chair when Jack moved up too. She's such a good lawyer and much more interesting then Cutter. Also, it would have been nice to see a second chair move up to the first. We've never had that on the show. Cutter was okay but he annoyed me at times too.

There's no way the hooker didn't know who Shalvoy was. Sleeping with the governor? She would have been making the most of that with money, gifts, etc. I didn't like Jack going to Shalvoy either. It was wrong and Jack should have known better. 

Yeah Connie was great, and it would’ve been really interesting to see her as lead prosecutor and having a male as second chair for the first time since Robinette, I wish they had bumped her up when Jack became DA. Connie is one of my favorites and it would’ve been great to see her take the lead. Cutter could really get on my nerves - he was extremely egotistic. I loved seeing her do a good job in Strike as the defense lawyer, and it was an interesting case as well, even though Bernard was a bit OOC.

While Excalibur is pretty good I couldn’t believe the hooker had no idea who Shalvoy was - even if he used the alias when hooking up, how did she never see his picture anywhere? That was just really stretching things. And yeah Jack should’ve known better than to give Shalvoy a heads up - he let their prior friendship cloud his judgment - at least Jack acknowledged that he was foolish to trust Shalvoy and that he made a mistake - Jack thought Shalvoy would come clean about everything and didn’t realize what a slimebag he was. He quickly found out when Shalvoy planted the story about Jack using taxpayer money for personal trips. 

[ByTor]

I basically quit watching after Jack becomes DA. I haaaaate Cutter, he ruined the whole show for me! I only hope he ended up getting fired or had to resign in shame for being a vile jackass. *whew* that felt good!!

Edited June 27 by ByTor

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, ByTor said:

I basically quit watching after Jack becomes DA. I haaaaate Cutter, he ruined the whole show for me! I only hope he ended up getting fired or had to resign in shame for being a vile jackass. *whew* that felt good!!

I’m not much of a Cutter fan either - I don’t have the hatred for him that you have but he really gets on my nerves in certain episodes - particularly with the constant trickery he used and his huge ego. In season 19 it seemed like he had to use a trick in every episode to win and in season 18 he was just an ass much of the time - in season 20 he got some better aside from when he revealed Van Buren’s cancer in court, that was another moment of him being a total ass. He’s one of my least favorites - along with Serena, Curtis, Cassady and Borgia, those are probably my least favorites.      
I really wish Connie had been promoted to lead prosecutor when Jack became DA - she was such an awesome character. She really adds a lot to the later seasons.

 

[ByTor]

I love Connie. I was flipping channels and came across the one with the judge who had dementia and his clerk was basically telling him what to do. Cutter saying to Connie "Jealous?" made me want to smack him LOL

[Xeliou66]

1 minute ago, ByTor said:

I love Connie. I was flipping channels and came across the one with the judge who had dementia and his clerk was basically telling him what to do. Cutter saying to Connie "Jealous?" made me want to smack him LOL

I love Connie as well, she was awesome. And yeah Cutter just reeked of smugness and he rarely got called out for it. About the only time he did was in an episode I saw last night, Falling, where he tried to force the couple to not have the surgery performed on their disabled daughter and went as far as to attach an illegal stipulation to the plea agreement - he was WAY out of line there and I cheered when Jack came into court and took over, removed the illegal stipulation and apologized for Cutter’s error in judgment. Cutter was really out of bounds there and I was glad Jack stepped in. There were several other instances where Cutter did something rather underhanded. 

[ByTor]

22 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I love Connie as well, she was awesome. And yeah Cutter just reeked of smugness and he rarely got called out for it. About the only time he did was in an episode I saw last night, Falling, where he tried to force the couple to not have the surgery performed on their disabled daughter and went as far as to attach an illegal stipulation to the plea agreement - he was WAY out of line there and I cheered when Jack came into court and took over, removed the illegal stipulation and apologized for Cutter’s error in judgment. Cutter was really out of bounds there and I was glad Jack stepped in. There were several other instances where Cutter did something rather underhanded. 

There was the one with the gay hate crime & the defense attorney brought up an issue where Cutter may not legally be a lawyer because of some issue with undergrad classes or something? I was soooo hoping that would get him tossed out on his ass, but of course it all worked out for him. Why can't I have nice things???

[ML89]

On 6/27/2024 at 3:52 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Cutter was really out of bounds there and I was glad Jack stepped in. There were several other instances where Cutter did something rather underhanded. 

But he'd be fun now, if they had kept NuDA Baxter a bit more shady. Cutter and Connie having convos after Baxter swanned out of their office would be entertaining. Of course, Connie's eyes would have rolled out of her head by this point.

[andromeda331]

Driven-is a really good episode. It always surprises me when parents' act worse then their kids. A fight over a basketball of all things ends up in two teens being shot and killed. One Tanya wasn't even part of the fight. One side takes the basketball from the white teens who go back to their parents'. One mom tells them to stand up for themselves by giving them bats and driving them back to the basketball court. Gee, that's a great idea. What could go wrong? Yeah, kids need to stand up for themselves but doing it with baseball bats isn't the answer. The dad sees teens coming after his son with bats and comes out of the house with a gun and fires killing the two teens. True he did think his son was about to be attacked.  He could have fired a warning shot. He could have said something. He was a parent and they were teens. They might have stopped. Gun vs a bat. His son was enough away for him to get away. He could have called 911. Nope, he came out of his house firing which is how poor Tanya got shot. I'm glad both parents' got convicted. They were both responsible for what happened and should have been the ones to de-escalate the situation. 

[Xeliou66]

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Driven-is a really good episode. It always surprises me when parents' act worse then their kids. A fight over a basketball of all things ends up in two teens being shot and killed. One Tanya wasn't even part of the fight. One side takes the basketball from the white teens who go back to their parents'. One mom tells them to stand up for themselves by giving them bats and driving them back to the basketball court. Gee, that's a great idea. What could go wrong? Yeah, kids need to stand up for themselves but doing it with baseball bats isn't the answer. The dad sees teens coming after his son with bats and comes out of the house with a gun and fires killing the two teens. True he did think his son was about to be attacked.  He could have fired a warning shot. He could have said something. He was a parent and they were teens. They might have stopped. Gun vs a bat. His son was enough away for him to get away. He could have called 911. Nope, he came out of his house firing which is how poor Tanya got shot. I'm glad both parents' got convicted. They were both responsible for what happened and should have been the ones to de-escalate the situation. 

Driven is a good episode, very interesting story, but I didn’t think that the sentence should be the same for both parents - the shooter should get a longer sentence than the mom, yes the mom deserved to be held accountable but the killer was the dad and don’t forget the confrontation was instigated by the shooter’s son and his friends, they were more responsible for the conflict than the mom and her kids were. Unpopular opinion probably but the sentences shouldn’t be the same. Other than that it’s a strong episode, I liked Jack’s scenes in it and seeing him interact with Van Buren. 

[Xeliou66]

Season 18 is on today -

Illegal is such an awesome episode, especially for Jack, this one really showed what a great DA Jack is and I loved his testimony at the end - “the bottom line Ms Sanders, where there’s a law I’ll enforce it, where there’s a crime I’ll prosecute it, and where there’s a victim I’ll speak for that victim. That’s my bottom line.” - that was epic, really summed up Jack well. 
Good continuity in mentioning some of the past cases Jack had been involved in as well.
Jack chewing Latham out and firing him was awesome as well, Latham deliberately tanked the grand jury presentation and did an awful job just because he didn’t believe the cop should be prosecuted, it was very satisfying to see Jack show him the door, he was unprofessional from the start, I hope he wound up having his license pulled for his behavior. Also it was great when after Jack was called a “placeholder” by the bureaucrat, he said he wouldn’t tolerate any interference and would haul every cop in the park in front of a grand jury if necessary. Jack was awesome all around here.    
The stuff with the detectives was good as well, Van Buren was great as usual in the meeting in Jack’s office, and I liked how she assured Lupo she had confidence in him and that they could both handle the heat. This was the first we heard about Lupo’s backstory which was explored more in season 20. Green/Lupo were a good detective pairing and I wish we had gotten more episodes of them. This was one of Cutter’s best episodes as well, he did a good job of salvaging the case after Latham tanked it and his cross of the officer was strong. 
Illegal is the best season 18 episode IMO, and it’s one of my all time favorites actually.

L&O felt fresher this season, the detective side was the strongest it had been since Lennie’s departure with the addition of Lupo and then Bernard, and Jack becoming DA was good as well, while I missed in the courtroom it added some new intrigue to see Jack take on his role as DA and be the boss. Not a Mike Cutter fan but he had some good moments, and things just felt a bit fresher this season. Connie is awesome, my favorite female lawyer, it would’ve been even better if she had become lead prosecutor after Jack became DA. 

I really like the final seasons of the original run and I’m glad they’ve rotated around again. 

[andromeda331]

I love Jack in IIlegal he does such a good job and I love him firing Latham. I don't know why he thought Jack would be okay with that.  He's well known for prosecuting cops who committed crimes. It's one of the reasons I love Jack because he would prosecute cops, politicans, Christians and etc. it didn't matter who they were or what they believed. If they committed a crime he was going to prosecute it.

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I love Jack in IIlegal he does such a good job and I love him firing Latham. I don't know why he thought Jack would be okay with that.  He's well known for prosecuting cops who committed crimes. It's one of the reasons I love Jack because he would prosecute cops, politicans, Christians and etc. it didn't matter who they were or what they believed. If they committed a crime he was going to prosecute it.

Jack is awesome and Illegal is one of his finest moments. His statement on the witness stand was terrific, and it summed up Jack well - he did his job and upheld the law without bias or favoritism and held everyone accountable. He made a similar statement in his very last episode in season 23 in his closing argument to the jury about applying the law equally and without favoritism when telling the jury not to be swayed by the defendant’s friendship with the mayor and billionaire status. Jack was an outstanding DA and my favorite L&O character.

I’m not sure what Latham was thinking but Latham was a rotten prosecutor who had his own agenda, I don’t know how he thought he could keep his job after tanking the grand jury presentation.

I liked how Jack stood up to the bureaucrats as well when they were pressuring him and defended Van Buren and kept her on the case. And I liked how Van Buren trusted Lupo on the case even though they would both be under pressure and Lupo’s past might come up, Van Buren and Lupo had a strong relationship. Cutter for once was strong here as well, this was one of his best episodes. As I’ve said before, Illegal is my favorite of season 18.