S07.E11. Showtime

[Joe Hellandback]

Halfway through season 7, nearly at the end now!

The Good; The siege of Revello Drive and Buffy taking the Turok-Han down.

The Bad; So why doesn't the Turok-Han attack night after night? The only thing I can think off is that it wanted to get some of the Potentials to Sunnydale? Or maybe the Turok-Han has some limits to it's strength and needs to 'recharge'? (this ep is set several days after the last)

Best line; Buffy; "Welcome to thunderdome!" (Mel Gibson is in We Were Soldiers with Marc Blucas so in 2) followed by "Dust, like all the rest" Although I also like; Rhona; (on being handed a sword) "What's the point?" Kennedy; "It's the sharp end"

Women good/men bad; Dawn says the Slayer is always female because girls are just cooler.

Kinky dinky; Anya once had a one night stand with the six spleened demon whilst wearing entrails! Anya is quite prepared to prostitute herself on behalf of the Scoobs.

Captain Subtext; Will still shy about sharing Kennedy's bed but the rich minx isn't so hesitant. Andrew refers to his 'joystick hand' which even Xander won't 'touch' (interesting phrasing?).

Apocalypses; 7,

Scoobies in bondage: Buffy: 8 Giles: 4 Cordy: 5 Will: 4 Jenny: 1 Angel: 4 Oz: 1 Faith: 3 Joyce: 1 Wes: 1 Xander; 2 Dawn; 4 Spike; 2

Scoobies knocked out: Buffy: 20 Giles: 12 Cordy: 6 Xander: 15 Will: 9 Jenny: 2 Angel: 6 Oz: 3 Faith: 1 Joyce: 3 Wes: 1 Anya;7 Dawn; 4 Tara; 1 Spike; 1

Kills: Xander and Kennedy kill a Bringer each. Buffy kills 4 Bringers and the Turok-Han Buffy: 118 vamps, 60 demons, 6 monsters, 9 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demon, 1 human/1 god. Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human. Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1 a demon, 2 humans Anya: 1 vamp and 1 a demon Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons Spike; 9 vamps and 6 demons Buffybot; 2 vamps Tara; 1 demon Dawn; 1 vamp + 1 demon Kennedy; 1 human

Scoobies go evil: Giles: 1 Cordy: 1 Will: 3 Jenny: 1 Angel: 1 Oz: 1 Joyce: 1 Xander: 4 Anya; 1 Dawn; 1 Buffy; 1 Spike; 1

Alternate scoobies: Buffy: 8 Giles: 4 Cordy: 1 Will: 5 Jenny: 2 Angel: 3 Oz: 2 Joyce: 2 Xander: 4 Tara; 1 Dawn;1 Spike; 1 Anya; 2

Recurring characters killed: 13 Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara, Quentin Travers.

Sunnydale deaths; poor Eve 103

Total number of scoobies: 12, add Vi (my 2nd favourite Potential), Chloe and Rhona (my least favourite) to the list Xander, Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Anya, Spike, Giles, Kennedy, Molly, Vi, Chloe, Rhona

Xander demon magnet: 5(6?) Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot: Giles: 2 Angel: 3 Oz: 4 Riley; 1 Buffy; 1 Tara; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost: Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes? Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 2 possible, Dracula+RJ(?) Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?) Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley Xander: 2; Faith, Anya Willow: 2;Oz and Tara Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vampwhore Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya Anya; 2 Spike and Xander

Dawn in peril; 14

Dawn the bashful virgin; 9

Questions and observations; Vi (everyone's second favourite Potential?) refers to Faith. The game 'Six degrees of Kevin Bacon' is mentioned (simple, Kevin was in Will and Grace as was Seth Green). Bojoxers eye is very reminiscent of Big Trouble in Little China (Kim Cattral is in Sex and the City with SMG so in 2). If the bringers are human why doesn't Xander just get Anya's gun and shoot them? Kennedy says she's been training since she was 8? Buffy tells Rhona 'Welcome to the Hellmouth'! The Coven is still there so Giles and co still have allies around the world. Holy Water works on Turok-Han even though they must surely predate Christianity? Mad Max 3 quoted although I never thought it was that successful in the US (and again, a reference for scriptwriters in their 30s rather than a 23 year old?). Buffy wins because she has the human traits of strategy and weapons and is fighting for the people she loves. If the First needs to release more Turok-Han why doesn't it just bleed the Bringers?

Marks out of 10; 9/10

Edited November 15, 2018 by Joe Hellandback

[lembergwatcher]

2 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

So why doesn't the Turok-Han attack night after night?

Because the First Evil is lame and very stupid. I guess its minions aren't supposed to think strateguically either.

 

2 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Dawn says the Slayer is always female because girls are just cooler.

It appears Summers family shares a stupidity chromosome or whatever regarding the conversation between the Key Face and Andrew. Because you can't blame the guy for killing his only friend on one hand and defend Spike on the grounds of him "being controlled by The First" on the other. Both Spike and Andrew commited their crimes under The First's control (or so the writers claim). If Spikey wasn't culpable for his actions (as the bleached perv's fans insist), Andrew couldn't be blamed for anything either. He's the victim just like Buffy's vampboy.

 

2 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Anya is quite prepared to prostitute herself on behalf of the Scoobs.

Oh come on... That's a wishful thinking. She's just obsessed with sex and ready to jump on anyone who appears to be able to give her these 10,000 orgasms or whatever.

 

2 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Will still shy about sharing Kennedy's bed but the rich minx isn't so hesitant.

I like Kennedy but W/K is a total joke IMO. Kennedy's intentions are too obvious even for a grade schooler. Where's the mystery or intrigue? Manipulation? Tricking the audience? OTOH it's bad they didn't have time machines in the Buffyverse. Otherwise they could've sent Kennedy back in 1997, so she could give shy (and still straight) Willow Rosenberg a master class regarding hooking up with Xander Harris.

 

2 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Bojoxers eye is very reminiscent of Big Trouble in Little China

You mean Beljoxa's Eye? Btw I thought (even back then) the Eye's revelation would have had a profound effect on the further plot development (since it was kinda very important to say the least), but unfortunately I was wrong. Those writing giants from Team Joss didn't seem to care or simply forgot about everything. Sigh.

 

2 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Rhona (my least favourite)

This almost mutual dislike of Rhona among the fandom... I don't get it. What did the poor girl do to become "the least favorite" of all Potentials?

Edited November 15, 2018 by lembergwatcher

[Jack Shaftoe]

This episode is almost too stupid for words. Buffy's speech in the end almost made me choke with laughter. "If we all do our parts"? Bitch, your genius plan was to have everyone else do nothing while you beat the Turok-Han with nothing but blind luck. And this is supposed be inspiring and conductive for teamwork? Are you kidding me? We have seen Buffy so many times come up with plans to defeat enemies who couldn't simply be pummeled into submission. But this time - nah, she just shows up and hopes for the best. Yet another example of her behaving as someone who knows she is the lead in a TV show, hence she will prevail somehow no matter what.

And since it can't be said enough - shut up Andrew!

[Joe Hellandback]

10 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

This episode is almost too stupid for words. Buffy's speech in the end almost made me choke with laughter. "If we all do our parts"? Bitch, your genius plan was to have everyone else do nothing while you beat the Turok-Han with nothing but blind luck. And this is supposed be inspiring and conductive for teamwork? Are you kidding me? We have seen Buffy so many times come up with plans to defeat enemies who couldn't simply be pummeled into submission. But this time - nah, she just shows up and hopes for the best. Yet another example of her behaving as someone who knows she is the lead in a TV show, hence she will prevail somehow no matter what.

And since it can't be said enough - shut up Andrew!

If we all do our parts in future, taking the Turok Han was Buffy's job and she had its' measure this time. 

I liked his '2 men enter' schtick, we were all thinking it. 

[Joe Hellandback]

21 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Because the First Evil is lame and very stupid. I guess its minions aren't supposed to think strateguically either.

 

It appears Summers family shares a stupidity chromosome or whatever regarding the conversation between the Key Face and Andrew. Because you can't blame the guy for killing his only friend on one hand and defend Spike on the grounds of him "being controlled by The First" on the other. Both Spike and Andrew commited their crimes under The First's control (or so the writers claim). If Spikey wasn't culpable for his actions (as the bleached perv's fans insist), Andrew couldn't be blamed for anything either. He's the victim just like Buffy's vampboy.

 

Oh come on... That's a wishful thinking. She's just obsessed with sex and ready to jump on anyone who appears to be able to give her these 10,000 orgasms or whatever.

 

I like Kennedy but W/K is a total joke IMO. Kennedy's intentions are too obvious even for a grade schooler. Where's the mystery or intrigue? Manipulation? Tricking the audience? OTOH it's bad they didn't have time machines in the Buffyverse. Otherwise they could've sent Kennedy back in 1997, so she could give shy (and still straight) Willow Rosenberg a master class regarding hooking up with Xander Harris.

 

You mean Beljoxa's Eye? Btw I thought (even back then) the Eye's revelation would have had a profound effect on the further plot development (since it was kinda very important to say the least), but unfortunately I was wrong. Those writing giants from Team Joss didn't seem to care or simply forgot about everything. Sigh.

 

This almost mutual dislike of Rhona among the fandom... I don't get it. What did the poor girl do to become "the least favorite" of all Potentials?

Andrew was tricked but he wasn't mind controlled. Plus he was also responsible for the actions of the Geek Trio.

If they can give her 10,000 orgasms I don't blame her!

Point is that Kennedy is the total reverse of Tara, she wasn't meant to be subtle, not all lesbians are Indigo girls loving femmes.

Truth is what would have been the point? Just makes Xander and co feel bad?

People hate Rhona because she's whinges and is almost entirely negative (and if we're being superficial, she's not very attractive to make up for it)  

[lembergwatcher]

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Plus he was also responsible for the actions of the Geek Trio.

Oh yes, he was. The Trio's body count was much smaller though.
 

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Truth is what would have been the point? Just makes Xander and co feel bad?

The point is drawing some conclusions (at last!) and thus trying not to make the same mistakes again

Spoiler

(i.e. not to cast that idiotic Slayer Activation spell or whatever).

Lives lost (lives of the Potentials and Watchers massacred around the world due to The First's rise) are more important then someone's feelings IMO.

 

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

People hate Rhona because she's whinges and is almost entirely negative

Right. And Buffy radiates sunshine, joy and positive attitude each and every episode? Rhona's attitude is kinda natural in the circumstances. Some people tend to behave like that when they're scared to death or facing the uncertainty. Don't you think being on The First's hit list alone is enough reason to be not so overtly positive? We don't know much about Rhona and what she's been through before she arrived in Sunnydale-on-the-Hellmouth. She didn't have a Watcher AFAIK - therefore no one could explain those things to her in a proper way. Buffy didn't want to die in Prophecy Girl, was one step away from dereliction of duty, but we understand and sympathize with her. Rona doesn't want to die either and everyone hates her... Hilarious...  

[Jack Shaftoe]

2 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

If we all do our parts in future, taking the Turok Han was Buffy's job and she had its' measure this time. 

And the parts of everyone not named Buffy were those of, wait for it, viewers. How inspiring.

And Buffy had the measure of the Turok Han purely by writer fiat, she didn't prepare in any specific way for this fight. Apparently she had read the script, knew she would win and was only concerned with how to use this certain victory to increase morale.

[Dee]

On 11/15/2018 at 7:14 AM, lembergwatcher said:

This almost mutual dislike of Rhona among the fandom... I don't get it. What did the poor girl do to become "the least favorite" of all Potentials?

You know why,

[Halting Hex]

On 11/16/2018 at 4:46 AM, Joe Hellandback said:

If we all do our parts in future, taking the Turok Han was Buffy's job and she had its measure this time. 

Great, so fighting is Buffy's job.  The rest of us can stay home and download porn, then.  Have fun, Buff!

BTW, shouldn't Andrew be going back to jail, now?  He was part of the assault/kidnapping/attempted rape/felony murder of Katrina, he obstructed justice by covering up the evidence, he committed attempted robbery against the armored car (and assault on the guards) and he was part of Warren's attempt to murder Buffy, he broke jail, he fled the country, and he murdered Jonathan.  He has no more information to give the Scoobs, and he's able to be influenced by the First, a possible "mole" in their midst.  Why should they keep him around?

I mean, yes, according to Joss, Tom Lenk kept everyone "relaxed" on the set, but can't they just pay Tom for the blowjobs and send him on his way, rather than wasting screentime on Andrew?

 (You think I'm being crude, but I was cynically saying that "Lenk must have been a real stud on that casting couch" before Joss was all "who didn't experiment in college?" and before TL came out as gay.  Just be careful about imagining what Joss bending Tom over his desk and banging away might look like…as Robin says, once you see something you can't un-see it…)[/evil]

Edited November 17, 2018 by Halting Hex

[Joe Hellandback]

23 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Oh yes, he was. The Trio's body count was much smaller though.
 

The point is drawing some conclusions (at last!) and thus trying not to make the same mistakes again

  Hide contents

(i.e. not to cast that idiotic Slayer Activation spell or whatever).

Lives lost (lives of the Potentials and Watchers massacred around the world due to The First's rise) are more important then someone's feelings IMO.

 

Right. And Buffy radiates sunshine, joy and positive attitude each and every episode? Rhona's attitude is kinda natural in the circumstances. Some people tend to behave like that when they're scared to death or facing the uncertainty. Don't you think being on The First's hit list alone is enough reason to be not so overtly positive? We don't know much about Rhona and what she's been through before she arrived in Sunnydale-on-the-Hellmouth. She didn't have a Watcher AFAIK - therefore no one could explain those things to her in a proper way. Buffy didn't want to die in Prophecy Girl, was one step away from dereliction of duty, but we understand and sympathize with her. Rona doesn't want to die either and everyone hates her... Hilarious...  

I think  that the 

Spoiler

Slayer Activation spell was pretty much a success? 

Plus I doubt Xander and co will be raising the dead again? Buffy coped with being the Slayer pretty darn well, Rhona had serious bad attitude considering she had so many people trying to help her and all she could do was whinge. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

Quote

I mean, yes, according to Joss, Tom Lenk kept everyone "relaxed" on the set, but can't they just pay Tom for the blowjobs and send him on his way, rather than wasting screentime on Andrew?

Come on now, let's be generous and assume Lenk supplied Joss and company with really powerful drugs. It would explain so much.

[Jack Shaftoe]

18 minutes ago, Joe Hellandback said:

It was Buffy's job to inspire the troops by showing how formidable one woman could be and how they could be as Slayers. Buffy had the measure of the Turok Han this time, weapons and playing to her strengths much as she will later do 

Oh, yes, a really inspiring victory which was the result of nothing but blind luck and superpowers. Remind me again if the Potentials have any superpowers? And weapons? Kennedy dropped the crossbow. Even if we are really generous and assume Buffy intended to use the barbed wire all along it only makes just as stupid only in a different way. Why not use it in the beginning of the fight? Why not use a far more effective weapon, like, I don't know, a sword? A flamethrower even? A rocket launcher? Something, anything, to show she actually took that fight seriously and had any brains left.

Quote

Again, they keep him because he could be useful as indeed he later proves in Storyteller. 

Again, that's circular reasoning. The characters didn't have script for Storyteller available for reference when they made the idiotic decision to harbor Andrew.

Edited November 17, 2018 by Jack Shaftoe

[lembergwatcher]

10 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

A rocket launcher?

The fact that Buffy attempted to kill Principal Wood with a rocket launcher several eps earlier makes her (and writers for that matter) look inexcusably stupid when it comes to the Turok-Han.  

[Halting Hex]

5 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Why not use it in the beginning of the fight? Why not use a far more effective weapon, like, I don't know, a sword? A flamethrower even? A rocket launcher?

How about Willow?  We saw the episode before that Buffy is going to insist that Willow keep doing magic, no matter what, so why don't they use her for something more useful than five seconds' worth of force-field after the Ubie knocks in the door?

I'm not saying she has to go full fireball (and who knows if that will kill Ubie anyhow, not to mention that Will might not be in a great place emotionally for killing these days), but a quick clouding or paralyzing spell would let Buffy zip in there for a much easier kill, via a quick neck-snap, for example.  No muss, no fuss; Willow sets him up, Buffy knocks him down.

Of course, less "drama" that way, but even so.

[Loandbehold]

13 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

TW, shouldn't Andrew be going back to jail, now?  He was part of the assault/kidnapping/attempted rape/felony murder of Katrina, he obstructed justice by covering up the evidence, he committed attempted robbery against the armored car (and assault on the guards) and he was part of Warren's attempt to murder Buffy, he broke jail, he fled the country, and he murdered Jonathan.  He has no more information to give the Scoobs, and he's able to be influenced by the First, a possible "mole" in their midst.  Why should they keep him around?

Preach! Although SPD doesn't know about Jonathan's murder since Wood buried the body. 

[Joe Hellandback]

21 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Oh, yes, a really inspiring victory which was the result of nothing but blind luck and superpowers. Remind me again if the Potentials have any superpowers? And weapons? Kennedy dropped the crossbow. Even if we are really generous and assume Buffy intended to use the barbed wire all along it only makes just as stupid only in a different way. Why not use it in the beginning of the fight? Why not use a far more effective weapon, like, I don't know, a sword? A flamethrower even? A rocket launcher? Something, anything, to show she actually took that fight seriously and had any brains left.

Again, that's circular reasoning. The characters didn't have script for Storyteller available for reference when they made the idiotic decision to harbor Andrew.

Because she had to show the Potentials it wasn't about weapons, that the Slayer triumphs because of her ingenuity and adaptability. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

Quote

Because she had to show the Potentials it wasn't about weapons, that the Slayer triumphs because of her ingenuity and adaptability. 

Using any advantages which you can come up with is ingenuity. Using a wider range of weapons than just the traditional stake and the help of your friends is adaptability. What would be more impressive - Buffy (and the Scoobies preferably) curb-stomping the Turok Han thanks to careful preparation and good teamwork or Buffy scraping a very lucky win through the power of writer fiat?

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎18‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 11:37 AM, Jack Shaftoe said:

Using any advantages which you can come up with is ingenuity. Using a wider range of weapons than just the traditional stake and the help of your friends is adaptability. What would be more impressive - Buffy (and the Scoobies preferably) curb-stomping the Turok Han thanks to careful preparation and good teamwork or Buffy scraping a very lucky win through the power of writer fiat?

Nah, our girl would always have made it, she adapts and survives, human traits whilst the Turok Han can't, hence why humanity rules.  

[Jack Shaftoe]

I must have imagined the Turok Han beating the crap out of Buffy and then inexplicably not bothering finishing her off in the previous episode. Buffy won thanks to a bad case of writer fiat.

Spoiler

And kept doing the same until the end of this trainwreck of a season.

[lembergwatcher]

Quote

ANYA
Oh. Oh. Willow and me and Xander and Tara. We're the ones who brought Buffy back. We're—we're the reason The First is here, the reason those girls were murdered. No, it's our fault. The would would've been better off if Buffy had just stayed dead.

First you accept your own responsibility for the whole mess, then suggest everything is actually Buffy's fault in the very next sentence. Anya's twisted logic or hack writing, I don't know. And, once again, what's the point of Beljoxa's Eye and its revelation anyway? In what way exactly did the information obtained help? What did Anya and Giles tell Buffy and the others after they met at Casa Summers? And how would Willow, Xander and the Potentials have reacted after learning that Buffy's two original Slayerettes were "the reason The First is here"?

[lembergwatcher]

One of the most ridiculous moments of the entire season. It seems very unlikely that, as much as the girls love all the touchy-feely stuff, nobody noticed First!Eve was incorporeal before Buffy got it. With all the passion for pulling "trick the audience" rabbits out of writers' hats once in a while, I guess they fail to do it this time. Because "Eve" looks, talks and acts kinda creepy from the very moment we see her for the first time at the beginning of an ep. JMO, of course.