S01.E02: The Harvest

[Lisin]

From Wikipedia:

After escaping from Luke, Buffy goes in search of Jesse, with a little help from Giles and Willow, from her mystery friend, Angel, and from Xander, who braves the dank, dark sewers with her. The Master plots the Harvest, a ritual designed to imbue him with enough strength to open the Hellmouth, but Buffy defeats his minions in a showdown at The Bronze.

 

I always forget that Willow has, from the beginning, been the computer girl. I always just figure they introduce it later in season 1, but nope, it's right here in the second (first) episode. Poor Jesse, but all in all I think this is a pretty successful second half of a pilot I suppose. I imagine it would make me at least watch the next episode. Also Angel makes me giggle now because DB looks like a toddler. He's SO YOUNG. 

[Mya Stone]

His baby face which morphs into a bit of pudge always slays me. (Pun intended.) 

Also, I really love the Master. So much cheese. So little time. 

[Guest]

The stuff you catch on rewatches can sometimes bug.  For instance, the cross that appears from nowhere when Luke has Buffy trapped in the grave, which she then leaves behind in the grave and yet she is wearing it later in the library scene.  I just keep telling myself that the cross was in her pocket and she went back to get it the next day.

 

Darla seems different to me in these 1st episodes.  Too submissive maybe?  She comes across as a stooge here as opposed to the Darla I came to know and love.

 

I like that Buffy seems uncertain and at times flying by the seat of her pants during combat but she already has the "do not mess with me" look down.

 

1st Harmony sighting.  I love me some BtVS! 

[CletusMusashi]

Well, the Maestro is the closest thing to a father figure that Darla's had.

I think that when he's around, her behavior changes a little bit, kind of like with Faith and the Mayor.

Except probably less miniature golf.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎21‎/‎05‎/‎2014 at 12:37 AM, CuriousParker said:

The stuff you catch on rewatches can sometimes bug.  For instance, the cross that appears from nowhere when Luke has Buffy trapped in the grave, which she then leaves behind in the grave and yet she is wearing it later in the library scene.  I just keep telling myself that the cross was in her pocket and she went back to get it the next day.

 

Darla seems different to me in these 1st episodes.  Too submissive maybe?  She comes across as a stooge here as opposed to the Darla I came to know and love.

 

I like that Buffy seems uncertain and at times flying by the seat of her pants during combat but she already has the "do not mess with me" look down.

 

1st Harmony sighting.  I love me some BtVS! 

Ah yes Harmony, here CC's unnamed blonde friend, who would realise that she will eventually become a regular on Angel with her own clip in the titles. You're right that Darla seems submissive here but I figure that's her attitude around The Master, she is 'sire-whipped', even Angelus comments on her running off and leaving him for old fruit punch mouth. 

 

On ‎25‎/‎05‎/‎2014 at 8:04 PM, CletusMusashi said:

Well, the Maestro is the closest thing to a father figure that Darla's had.

I think that when he's around, her behavior changes a little bit, kind of like with Faith and the Mayor.

Except probably less miniature golf.

Good call! I always figured that The Maestro doesn't turn up for the Seinfeld 4's trial because Mark Metcalf was busy in Sunnydale.

 

The Harvest

The Good; Never suspected they'd turn Jesse and was shocked when they killed him (Xander bags his first vamp, it'll take Willow and Cordelia 2 whole seasons to kill their first). The fight at the end is terrific especially Buffy's trick and 'give me the Spielberg (such a shame that there are no more commentaries on season 1, roll on Buffy Special Edition DVDs). Love Willow's trick on Cordy and we have Harmony for the first time (here unnamed). Willow hacks for the first time. Great scenes with the hand trying to pull Buffy back into tunnels (Xander saves her for the first time?) whilst the sun going down has never seemed quite so menacing not to mention Darla skipping along to the Bronze.

The bad; The vamps seem affected by the all too common slow moving monster syndrome. Also all the bodies disappear from the Bronze at the end whilst considering they're supposed to be lifelong friends Willow and Xander seem to forget about Jesse awfully quickly. Also considering we later establish what a formidable vamp Darla is Willow seems to overcome her awfully easily with just a jar of holy water

Best line; Willow; "I need to sit down" Buffy; "You are sitting down" Willow; "Oh, good"

Questions and observations; the vamps look slightly different to what we later see, their skin more mottled and talons more pronounced. We later see in The Wish that whilst the Harvest would have been bad it wouldn't have been the end of the world. Is it Cordy who bumps into Jesse and forces him onto Xander's stake? I must say I'd never seen the supposed gay subtext between the Master and Luke until it was pointed out by Joss but now it seems impossible to miss.

8/10 solid Buffy

[Joe Hellandback]

10 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

Well, Darla was never meant to become a prominent character initially. There are some major inconsistencies in the first Buffy season when it comes to her character. I think in the Angel episode, the Master is excited to have Angel be on their side, but the flashback around season two of Angel actually showed that the Master was not at all excited about Angel and that these two characters never did get along. And why would Darla in Angel be so excited about bringing him back to the dark side, when in the flashbacks throughout the Angel series, she was mostly disgusted by his soul?

 

I think it was funny that all Vampire Jesse needed to become attractive or interesting to Cordelia was a bit of hair wax and some alpha male bullshit attitude. Poor Eric Balfour had difficulties speaking with vampire teeth.

 

Also, you guys should give some love to Ballad for Dead Friends. The song that played as Darla and company head to the Bronze.

 

I also love how Buffy defeats Luke. Sunrise is in exactly six hours, you moron. Good stuff.

Yes, one of the best things about the Buffyverse is how they take minor characters and let them grow. I figure The Master/Angelus make up later and he wants to use him as a lackey like Luke against the threat of the Slayer. You must remember CC is still pretty superficial at this point, she'll blossom later. That's a scary little sequence at the Bronze, Darla's skipping is oddly sinister. 

[Halting Hex]

On 5/30/2018 at 5:39 AM, nosleepforme said:

Sunrise is in exactly six hours, you moron.

Nine hours, actually.  I'm just embarrassed that Luke's reaction to "sunlight" is to cover his face with his arm.  As if that would help, you meathead.  Try diving under the pool table or running upstairs, perhaps?

Note to self, when in danger of bursting into flame (allegedly), move!  Ffs.

[lembergwatcher]

Interesting episode.
March 1997. Xander follows Buffy to the Master's lair, despite being told to stay away. Angel decides to hold off, 'cause he's, you know afraid. Xander is an 16-year-old newbie with zero experience in the field. Angel's a 244-year-old vampire, ten times stronger than average human. Xander fights alongside with Buffy, Giles and Willow, helping to disrupt the Master's plans. Angel appears only when the battle's over.

January 1999. Angel is cool and considered to be the part of the Scooby Gang, despite the events of the previous year. Buffy's head over heels in love with him. Willow swoons with delight, happy for her best friend. Giles and the rest are okay with everything. Meanwhile by Scoobies' mutual consent Xander's only fit for bringing donuts. Seems like some of them were mindfucked even before the monks entered the picture. Sorry, just my usual rant

Overall the brilliant beginning of a long and exciting journey into new a dangerous territory, the time when B, W & X are still very young, innocent, slightly naive, yet able to tell the wrong from right. And, yes, I love the Ballad For Dead Friends...

[Halting Hex]

Spoiler

Hehehe.  And I thought I was prepared to fight Joe to the death over The Zeppo.  I bow before your superior venom.  Go you! You hate the best! [/Anya voice]

I do like how all the little scenelets that were added after the fact ("You've got something in your eye", "Rain of Toads", "Excuse me, Ms. Motormouth" and "I'll be damned") help to develop the characters, rather than just pad the run-time.  Well done.

Although I do wish we hadn't lost "Cordelia's gonna live forever.  You're not."  Some bro you are, bro.  Well, "you're not looking at Jesse, you're looking at the thing that killed him", but even so.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Halting Hex

[lembergwatcher]

Whenever I watch the ep I always get the impression Luke looks a little dizzy and is about to barf.

[Halting Hex]

Discussion of Principal Flutie in another thread led me to check the transcript for this one:

Quote

JOYCE:  It's happening again, isn't it? I got a call from your new principal. Says you missed some classes today?

So we didn't see it, but Flutie called Joyce, personally, on Buffy's second day of school?  That's not exactly a lot of rope Flutie's giving Buffy there, is it?  I mean, Buffy's transcripts aren't stellar, I know, but still.

Now we know why the students don't call him "Bob", I guess.

[lembergwatcher]

I don't think (and we have no evidence whatsoever) his primary goal was to make Buffy's life miserable

Spoiler

(which seemed to be Snyder's intention).

The guy just did his job and also probably expressed his concern for Buffy and the safety of the Sunnydale High for that matter. Who can blame him?

Edited November 14, 2018 by lembergwatcher

[Halting Hex]

I don't think he's a sadist or anything; I just think it's interesting that because the episode presents Joyce as the obstacle (she's the one who lectures Buffy, and ultimately grounds her) that it's easy to miss that "Bob" isn't as easygoing as he's seemed to be when he's on-camera.  

It makes me wonder what sort of negotiations Joyce had to go through to get Buffy admitted in the first place.  I've always been very un-fond of her "try not to get kicked out" admonition in Welcome to the Hellmouth, as I think it completely ignores Buffy's PTSD issues, but if Buffy is actually pretty much on probation before she sets foot on campus, that changes things. At  least a little, IMO.

[lembergwatcher]

1 hour ago, Halting Hex said:

It makes me wonder what sort of negotiations Joyce had to go through to get Buffy admitted in the first place.

It was all due to intervention of the Powers That Be IMO. California is the most populous and the third largest state with 58 counties and over 400 municipalities. Yet Buffy and her mom ended up right where the good ol' Hellmouth reared its ugly head

Spoiler

and where Buffy's vampiric "guardian angel" and soon to be boyfriend was "totally concidentally" hanging around.

And the Sunnydale High School, Buffy's new alma mater, happened to be exactly the one where her new Watcher worked as a librarian and was waiting for her. Not to mention that Buffy came not only to "the right place" but she did it at the right time , just before the Harvest and Master's rising. What if she got held up for a day or two?..

It took both Joyce's art of persuasion and divine intervention to get Buffy admitted despite her troublesome record I guess.

Edited November 14, 2018 by lembergwatcher

[Joe Hellandback]

3 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

I don't think he's a sadist or anything; I just think it's interesting that because the episode presents Joyce as the obstacle (she's the one who lectures Buffy, and ultimately grounds her) that it's easy to miss that "Bob" isn't as easygoing as he's seemed to be when he's on-camera.  

It makes me wonder what sort of negotiations Joyce had to go through to get Buffy admitted in the first place.  I've always been very un-fond of her "try not to get kicked out" admonition in Welcome to the Hellmouth, as I think it completely ignores Buffy's PTSD issues, but if Buffy is actually pretty much on probation before she sets foot on campus, that changes things. At  least a little, IMO.

Spoiler

I liked Flutie, he did his best and wasn't deliberately antagonistic, his final moments with Buffy are lovely. Hugely shocked when he dies. 

[lembergwatcher]

And the reason Giles doesn't object to Willow & Xander participating is...?  I can understand why he decides to fill them in, but allowing the two kids with zero fighting experience to take part in saving the day??? It's one thing to have the Chosen One with the power to survive, two civillians is a totally different thing... 

Spoiler

Besides Mr. Tweedy Pants knows damn well the connection to the Slayer will sure as hell lead both Xander and Willow into trouble, i.e. some life-threatening experience.

[Joe Hellandback]

20 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

And the reason Giles doesn't object to Willow & Xander participating is...?  I can understand why he decides to fill them in, but allowing the two kids with zero fighting experience to take part in saving the day??? It's one thing to have the Chosen One with the power to survive, two civillians is a totally different thing... 

  Hide contents

Besides Mr. Tweedy Pants knows damn well the connection to the Slayer will sure as hell lead both Xander and Willow into trouble, i.e. some life-threatening experience.

Well, both have already come in extremely useful and Giles appreciates Buffy is not the conventional Slayer so will need help.

[Halting Hex]

I usually spend the vamp-lair scenes concerned (futilely) for Jesse and anticipating W/X's reaction to the loss of their friend, but I thought about it from the Master's perspective after seeing a couple of video reactions lately, both of which highlighted this line:

Quote

MASTER:  I'm your faithful dog.  You bring me scraps.

I mean, I'd get pretty honked off if somebody took a bite out of the food they were supposed to be bringing me, ffs.  And I'm not a mighty vampire king.  (At least as far as you lot know, mwah-HA-HA!!)  Nobody calls me "Master"…not even my cat.

And, the Master had said he needed the food because he was weak.  And Darla knows that tonight is the big ritual they've been waiting 60+ years to perform.  And still she (metaphorically) snags his fries?  Jeez.  I'd be upset, too.

Ironically enough, during the attack, Darla won't let Vamp!Jesse have Cordelia because "they're all for the Master".  Oh, now she's thinking about what's best for the team, is that it?  I mean, good if she's learning, but she seems a bit hypocritical to be laying the smackdown on Jesse after her own trespasses.

[lembergwatcher]

I always wondered why Angel gave Buffy two messages that somehow contradict each other in less than 24 hours.

Welcome to the Hellmouth:  some dark Sunnydale street in the evening.

Quote

Buffy: What do you want?

Angel: The same thing you do.

Buffy: (lets down her guard) Okay. What do I want?

Angel: (steps toward her) To kill them. To kill them all.

Buffy: Sorry, that's incorrect. But you do get this lovely watch and a year's supply of Turtle Wax. What I *want* is to be left alone!

She starts a determined walk away.

Angel: Do you really think that's an option anymore? You're standing at the Mouth of Hell. And it's about to open.

She stops, turns to him and looks at him with a wide-eyed gaze. He reaches into his jacket and pulls out a small box.

Angel: Don't turn your back on this. (tosses her the box) You've gotta be ready.

The Harvest: mausoleum the very next day.

Quote

Angel: Don't... go down there.

Buffy: (turns back) Deal with my going.

Angel: You shouldn't be putting yourself at risk. Tonight is the Harvest. Unless you can prevent it, the Master walks.

Buffy: Well, if this Harvest thing is such a suckfest, why don't *you* stop it?

Angel: 'Cause I'm afraid.

She looks at him for a moment and then spins around quickly, kicking open the doors to the tunnel. She turns back to him.

Angel: They'll be expecting you.

Buffy: I've got a friend down there. Or at least a potential friend. Do you know what it's like to have a friend?

Evening of the Day One: You have to fight because you stand at the Mouth of Hell.

Day Two: Don't go down there because you shouldn't be putting yourself at risk.

I'm a little confused, really. Isn't the risk supposed to be the part of Slayer's job description? And how can Buffy "kill them all" by following Angel's advise and avoiding those she has to kill?

There are some other things about the beginning of Buffy's journey that cannot be explained as a mere coincidences IMO. Why did Buffy come to Sunnydale of all places (there are more than 400 cities and towns in California, yet Buffy ended up exactly where the Hellmouth reared its ugly head)? And not only did she come to the "right place" where her talents as a Slayer would be very much appreciated and desperately needed, but she happened to arrive there at the right time, just at the Harvest eve. How did Giles know for sure Buffy would enroll at the Sunnydale High? Who was the guardian of the Sunnydale Hellmouth before the Slayer's arrival, since the thing existed throughout the history of the town? Why wasn't the place taken over by the vamps as of 1997? And who took the role of the vampire hunter in LA after Buffy moved out?
Talk about the Powers That Be and their intervention...

[Halting Hex]

Simple answer:  Angel isn't telling Buffy to avoid all risks, he's simply trying to get her to prioritize.  

7 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

ANGEL: You shouldn't be putting yourself at risk. Tonight is the Harvest. Unless you can prevent it, the Master walks.

Remember, Buffy and Angel barely know each other.  At the start of this conversation, she doesn't even know his name.   And he's not trying to "rev her up" in that alleyway or any such thing, he was just working off of his assumptions of how a Slayer thinks, which she quickly confounded.  He's clueless about her motivations;  he guessed that she wanted "to kill them all", not knowing that she was "retired" when she moved to Sunnydale.  He was worried that she would risk herself needlessly, when she has the proverbial bigger fish to fry.

I mean, we don't even know how Angel knew that there was action in that particular mausoleum last night.  Apparently, Buffy didn't tell him, and if any of the other characters who made it out of the tomb (Willow, Xander, Darla, Luke) even know that Angel exists, we don't know about it.  We know that Giles doesn't know who Angel is, it would be odd for the kids to know the older Mysterious Guy, and if Angel's sincere about wanting to help Buffy in her mission, it's a fair guess that he's not hanging around with the vampires.  So how did Angel know about the tomb?

Best I can figure is that it's a pretty well-used access point.  (Remember, when Willow pulls up the schematic of the electrical system on the computer, Xander says he can't see any access.  So there probably aren't a large amount of ways in.)  If Angel's been monitoring the local vampires long enough that he knows how they come and go from their lair (he also knows where the lair is, since he gives Buffy directions), then he probably knows that Jesse is pretty much toast, that Buffy's hope that Jesse is being held as bait is just in vain.

So he's trying to get Buffy to focus on the larger problem, not give in to (what he assumes are) her natural aggressive instincts.  He's not saying that Buffy should run and hide forever (he didn't give her that cross so that Buffy can take the next bus to Reno, it's a fair guess), just that she shouldn't be barging into a lair full of vampires, and quite likely getting imperiled, when what she's needed for is to battle the Vessel that night, preventing the Master from gathering power that way.  Since apparently Harvests are very well-known (there's a picture in Giles's book, and even the bit about the Vessel's symbol is easily researched), it's reasonable to assume that Angel knows Buffy needs to be protecting the civilian population, not undertaking quixotic rescue missions.

After all, we see that Angel is even able to deduce where the Harvest takes place.  (Not that this proves too difficult; Xander puts the pieces together equally well.)  So he thinks that Buffy should readying herself for the battle at the Bronze, not "putting [herself] at risk" to save Jesse, whom Angel has never met, doesn't give a shit about, and probably can guess is already dead meat.  Not to mention that apparently Angel's not real clear on this whole "friend" concept, anyhow.  Which, kind of strange, but I guess you can't perfect your "Cryptic Wise Man" act if you're maintaining a normal social life…

8 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Who was the guardian of the Sunnydale Hellmouth before the Slayer's arrival, since the thing existed throughout the history of the town?

Quite possibly nobody.  Willow had to go back 60 years in the records to find a series of murders that might indicate the Master's arrival, after all.  I'd guess the vampires have been fairly scrupulous about lying low, the occasional "unexplained disappearance" such as noted in the newspaper in the Library aside.  Remember, Darla called Thomas "young and stupid" when he attacked Buffy and got slain.  Knowing that you're immortal if you don't screw up would generate a considerable amount of caution, I'd guess.

[lembergwatcher]

23 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Angel isn't telling Buffy to avoid all risks, he's simply trying to get her to prioritize.

Spoiler

Alright, the Deadboy is reasonable here :)

. I misjudged him.

 

23 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Quite possibly nobody.  Willow had to go back 60 years in the records to find a series of murders that might indicate the Master's arrival, after all.  I'd guess the vampires have been fairly scrupulous about lying low, the occasional "unexplained disappearance" such as noted in the newspaper in the Library aside.

Well, given that Sunnydale is presumed to be a "small town", there had to be too many of those "unexplained disappearances" in the span of 60 years since the vamps have to eat regularly AFAIK. They couldn't have be on a rat diet for all those years. And it's should have been quite hard for blood-thirsty creatures to lie low in places like Sunnydale. SunnyD is not LA or Cleveland, after all.

Spoiler

And here's another strange thing: the vamps choose to keep it quiet while their Master is still very much undead albeit trapped in his mystical prison and there's no Slayer in sight, but ironically change their tactics after Buffy's arrival and the Master's subsequent demise. The Slayer's presence doesn't stop them from attacking SHS at parent-teacher night or The Bronze after the K's Choice gig or other manifestations. Shouldn't Sunnydale's vampiric populace feel more free to kill and feed when the Slayer isn't around, not when she's right here, on high alert, with the deadly stake in her hand? 

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎05‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 3:10 PM, lembergwatcher said:

I always wondered why Angel gave Buffy two messages that somehow contradict each other in less than 24 hours.

Welcome to the Hellmouth:  some dark Sunnydale street in the evening.

The Harvest: mausoleum the very next day.

Evening of the Day One: You have to fight because you stand at the Mouth of Hell.

Day Two: Don't go down there because you shouldn't be putting yourself at risk.

I'm a little confused, really. Isn't the risk supposed to be the part of Slayer's job description? And how can Buffy "kill them all" by following Angel's advise and avoiding those she has to kill?

There are some other things about the beginning of Buffy's journey that cannot be explained as a mere coincidences IMO. Why did Buffy come to Sunnydale of all places (there are more than 400 cities and towns in California, yet Buffy ended up exactly where the Hellmouth reared its ugly head)? And not only did she come to the "right place" where her talents as a Slayer would be very much appreciated and desperately needed, but she happened to arrive there at the right time, just at the Harvest eve. How did Giles know for sure Buffy would enroll at the Sunnydale High? Who was the guardian of the Sunnydale Hellmouth before the Slayer's arrival, since the thing existed throughout the history of the town? Why wasn't the place taken over by the vamps as of 1997? And who took the role of the vampire hunter in LA after Buffy moved out?
Talk about the Powers That Be and their intervention...

1. God/The PTBs or The Watcher's Council arranged Joyce's job. 

2.  The Hellmouth had been inactive for years but grew stronger coming up to the Masters rising or

Spoiler

the Mayor's Ascension? 

 3. Buffy culled the LA vamps and it took them a while to recover. 

[Halting Hex]

9 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

 3. Buffy culled the LA vamps and it took them a while to recover. 

Hmm, good point.  The story Buffy tells about the vampirized left tackle whom she had to kill with the Exacto knife would seem to indicate a recruiting drive of some sort.  We don't know much about the vampire hierarchy as yet, but there's certainly a argument against turning anybody who might have the strength to take over the top spot, I'd guess.  

But if you need better weapons because the Slayer's been making inroads, well, things change.

[Halting Hex]

So, do we think Xander and Angel met when he followed Buffy into the tunnels?  I mean, apparently not, or Xander would probably asked who "that guy" was, but he couldn't have been too far behind Buffy;  Angel would have had to make a pretty quick exit from the tomb.  (Or maybe he went and lurked in the shadows, as he was when Buffy first came in.  We don't know why Angel's being so secretive, but I guess he could want to maintain his previous m.o.)

I wonder how long Willow has had that "Deliver" trick up her sleeve?  I mean, she might have thought it up on the spot, but it does seem that Cordelia might have fostered a longstanding grudge, and Willow might have planned things out in advance.

Seen this one many a time over the years, but I never noticed that Cordelia gives a little growl of approval before mentioning "senior boys" when she's chatting with "Miss Motormouth" and the rest of her gang at the Bronze.  

Spoiler

Ironically, next year it will be Willow who ends up dating the senior boy…who does a bit of growling of his own, three nights of a month.

[Halting Hex]

On 5/28/2018 at 7:42 AM, Joe Hellandback said:

Xander bags his first vamp,

Spoiler

it'll take Willow and Cordelia 2 whole seasons to kill their first

 

Spoiler

Not really; Willow gets her first in What's My Line, Part 2, only 20 episodes from now.  Yes, she gets help from Giles. who was holding the vamp steady, and we don't see the actual dusting (because Joss is trying to save runtime as well as $$$), but it still counts.  So she beats Cordy "sandwich-staking" the vamp in Anne by a half-season, and it we only count CC herself wielding the stake, then you've got to go all the way to Graduation Day, part 2, which is even further down the road.

[lembergwatcher]

On 1/31/2019 at 4:57 AM, Halting Hex said:

Xander bags his first vamp,

Technically speaking he does this involuntary, with the little help from a fleeing patron who bumps into Jesse thus impaling him on Xander's stake.

 

On 1/30/2019 at 4:57 PM, Halting Hex said:

Angel would have had to make a pretty quick exit from the tomb.

Spoiler

I guess he took the blanket and ran.

 

On 1/30/2019 at 4:57 PM, Halting Hex said:

I wonder how long Willow has had that "Deliver" trick up her sleeve?

What if she started planning it right after the scene at the water fountain? Or maybe it took her several years to find the courage to do something like that to Cordelia? Personally, I prefer Willow doing something more sophisticated and cruel in this regard.

Spoiler

Btw, haven't you noticed that Cordy favoured saving her venomous barbs for Buffy (and Xander) from then on, but chose not to confront Willow directly? Yes, she called her a "total loser" in Out of Mind, Out of Sight, but she was quite polite with Will in Prophecy Girl.

[Halting Hex]

On 1/31/2019 at 10:08 AM, lembergwatcher said:

Spoiler

Btw, haven't you noticed that Cordy favoured saving her venomous barbs for Buffy (and Xander) from then on, but chose not to confront Willow directly? Yes, she called her a "total loser" in Out of Mind, Out of Sight, but she was quite polite with Will in Prophecy Girl.

Spoiler

Yes.   The last really insulting thing CC says would be the "and you went mental, when?" in Halloween.  And that's more a reaction to the weirdness than pure venom.

Joe would say this shows the beginnings of Willow/Cordy 'shippiness.  I'm…not entirely certain that I disagree.  Even if My Willow's heart lies elsewhere.  Canon be hanged, I can multi-slash with the best of them!

Edited February 3, 2019 by Halting Hex

[Pallas]

No more posts reduced to spoilers, please. It's like a friend in vamp-face.

[lembergwatcher]

Dunno whether someone had asked those questions before. If not, then I'll try.

What сould Willow and Xander possibly tell Mr. and Mrs. McNally regarding their son's fate? More importantly, what could they possibly say to the police? Jesse's parents definitely filed a missing persons report on their son, therefore SPD should have paid his two best friends a visit. Furthermore, the cops should have questioned all the rest of Jesse's classmates, including Cordelia, who (along with Xander) turned out to be the last person who saw Jesse alive (undead), and other patrons of The Bronze. Yes, the rival gangs on PCP could have abducted the boy, but that assumption should have raised many additional questions (leading to W/X spending a considerable amount of time in the police station). Btw, wasn't Cordy supposed to share her observation ("And Buffy, like, knew them! Which is just too weird") with the law enforcement officers?

Quote

I mean, I don't even remember that much, but I'm telling you, it was a freak show!

You don't remember your near-death experience, Cordelia? Do people really tend to erase such things from their minds or is it just some kind of SDS (Sunnydale Denial Syndrome)? Of course, the human memory may fade... with time but not the "next Monday", I guess. Although she doesn't remember that much about the showdown at The Bronze, she nevertheless does remember Buffy "knowing" the freaks. I think Cordy was interested in the blonde Slayer from the very beginning 

Spoiler

and her barbs aimed at the other girl were nothing more than an attempt to hide the blossoming love and affection (I guess Xordelia happened solely due to the lack of commitment from Buffy to start a relationship with the raven-haired Queen).

[Halting Hex]

Well, Buffy doesn't seem to be showing much interest in Cryptic Guy (and she doesn't even seem to know that Xander's into her), so perhaps Cordelia has a shot.  Maybe being grabbed by the throat in the pilot kind of turned CC on, her protests aside.  And who knows what Buffy got up to (or down with) back in LA?

That said, Buffy doesn't seem to have a car.  So that's one strike against her, Cordelia-wise.  And I don't think that borrowing her mom's Jeep is going to make much of an impression, either.  Plus, like sophomore boys, Buffy probably isn't licensed to drive Cordelia someplace nice and private, anyway.  Although we see in this episode that Buffy doesn't mind breaking the rules (such as Flutie's ban on leaving campus or her mom's grounding her) if she thinks that it's merited.

Although somehow I doubt that the WB would have thought that Buffy stealing the Jeep and taking Cordelia to the local Lover's Lane for a different kind of "coolness quiz" would qualify as "merited".  But that's why they went out of business, I bet…

[Halting Hex]

So I was discussing this elsewhere and the part where SMG put on a little weight in the months between the filming of the pilot and this one came up.  (It's most visible when Buffy is in the Library and has a flashback to getting grabbed by Luke in the tomb; there's visibly less Buffy in the flashback than in the newest filming.)

But that's outside the show; inside the series, it's only been a day.  So I guess Buffy did a lot of stress-eating overnight?  She must really have been worried about Jesse.  (Perhaps she stopped at the ice cream shop on Hamilton to try and calm Willow and Xander down?) No wonder her mom can't tempt her out of her room by talking about the dinner she has downstairs.

When van saw Xander say "I couldn't just sit at home and do nothing" she was like "home? Isn't he supposed to be at school?"  Heh, I think she just earned her nerd card…Xander's "dedication" to school should have been apparent right from "I kind of had a problem with the math"/"Which part?"/"The math", I should think.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Halting Hex

[lembergwatcher]

Well, what can I say?.. That's the Hellmouth, after all... The dark energy radiating from it makes Slayer put on a little weight in a day, y'know.

[Halting Hex]

I wonder how Xander left campus?  It's a pretty good bet that he couldn't leap the fence the way Buffy does.

Something tells me that Xander's an old pro at escaping from school, though.  A bit of "quality fencework" won't stop him, even if the gate is closed. 

Spoiler

Although I doubt he knows about the tunnels which Angel uses in Out of Mind, Out of Sight at this point.  Even if he is the one who talks about how they "run under the whole city" in this episode.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Halting Hex

[lembergwatcher]

What happened to Buffy's hand so that she's keeping it like this?

[Halting Hex]

Another newer reactor (Paul of "Paul's Scene"; middle-aged working-class English guy) was a bit skeptical that the fleeing Bronzer could hit Vamp!Jesse so hard as to force him onto Xander's stake, fatally.  Although, given that Xander appears to have the stake aimed a Jesse's upper chest, a certain amount of "poetic license" is probably in play, regardless.

Spoiler

Paul knows Angel gets a spin-off, which is a huge bummer.  Going to take a bit of the oomph out of S2 for him.  But I can't complain overmuch; I still recall back in the day on TWoP, where newbies would be "I'm totally unspoiled…except for [this] and [that] and [other thing].  And, oh, [something else], too.  And I suppose [character development], but I guess everybody knows that."

I'm never thrilled the series has receded from popular knowledge a bit, but it makes reaction vids so much better, IMO.

Every time I see this one, I realize what a perfect capper "the Earth is doomed" is.  Sums up Buffy's on-going issues, and illuminates Giles's emotions very nicely.

Spoiler

Normally, when discussing Chosen, I complain about Joss being so bankrupt as to steal the line and re-use for idiotic mall jokes, but I think the real tragedy is that they've got nothing to end the series on.  "Buffy stares blankly into the distance and slowly smiles" ain't cutting it, crew.

And Joss only had seven years to think of something (anything!) better.  Grr, Arrgh indeed…

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Halting Hex

[Halting Hex]

A newer reactor 

Spoiler

who knows Angel is a vampire, so that's going to kill the fun for part of S1 (sigh)

wonders why Cordelia is going on during computer lab about Buffy "attacking" her at the Bronze, when supposedly she called "everybody I know" to tell them the previous night.

Hypotheses:

• Cordelia is really bored, and doesn't mind retelling the story instead of concentrating on the work.

• Cordelia called the important people.  Harmony's b-list, and didn't get a phone call.

• Who says Harmony knows how to use a phone?

Any or all seem possible, I'm guessing.

[lembergwatcher]

What if something distracted Cordelia from completing her mission (like, say, messed up hair)?

[Halting Hex]

Good point.

That same reactor had been against Xander going with Buffy in the tunnels, claiming that his inability to fight would only be a distraction.  This is refuted by Xander's pulling her to safety in the sunlight, of course (which was shown in the edited reaction), yet the reactor was unable to entirely let go of the idea, expressing similar concerns as Xander joined in the fight at the Bronze and was seized by the vamps, before being rescued by Buffy's lethal cymbal-toss.

Which led to the part where the reactor's concern was merited, and which I'd never seen before:  after Xander makes his "heads up" pun, we can briefly spot Buffy smirking and then laughing, before Luke grabs her from behind.  All this time, I'd only seen the smirk, and assumed it was Buffy being proud of her work, but she actually is laughing at the joke, on closer inspection.

(I tried to hypothesize that it wasn't Buffy laughing, but SMG, but that's ridiculous, of course.  It's an entirely different camera shot.  Nick Brendon might not even have been on set when they filmed it.)

So, yes, Xander did (in this one case) briefly distract Buffy by making her laugh during combat, but I think that it's nice that she enjoys his humor, overall.  We already saw last episode (as she snapped at Giles) that her Duty can tend to make Buffy rather grim.  If Xander can be a help, I say good for him.

[Halting Hex]

You wouldn't think that, given how little show history there is thus far, and how often I've seen these early eps, I could still be having "duh!" moments, but…

I've always assumed the point of the computer class scene (besides Cordelia spreading rumors about Buffy and Willow's "deliver" revenge) was to show that Willow was way more advanced than most students, since Cordelia and her blonde friend were just struggling to do basic programming and Willow had that whole "Earthquake" site up and running.

But then this time I paid attention and heard:

Quote

WILLOW (to Giles):  I surfed through all of the old newspapers, back around the time of that big earthquake back in '37…

So Willow wasn't building that website, after all?  She was just surfing it for information, instead of doing any programming herself?  Slacker!  Not nice to destroy Cordelia's work when you're not doing any of your own.  (I forgive her, though.)

And a new reactor pointed out that it makes sense the Harvest would be at the Bronze, since that's where Darla and Thomas (RIH) were last night.  Duh!  They weren't just bringing the Master snacks, they were scouting out the terrain for the big event in this one, making sure there were lots of "juicy young morsels" for Luke to feed on, so that the Master could get free.  Well spotted.

**************************

Cordelia says that tonight is Friday, and even though she fell for Willow's "deliver" trick, I think Cordelia knows what day it is.  So…Buffy's first day was on.a Thursday, then?  That's a bit odd, isn't it?  One might think Buffy's mom might let Buffy spend a few days helping her get their new house in order, and then start fresh on Monday.  Guess Buffy's all about the schoolwork, huh?

*************************

Another new reactor (who watches with her spoiled sister) was reacting to the "Rain of Toads" scene.  When Willow expressed concern about Xander's safety, she was all "Aw, Willow likes [Xander]!"

But when Xander didn't want to go to class and seemed to be indicating he was going after Buffy, she was "Aw, he likes [Buffy]! It's one of those love-triangle things, ain't it?  Poor Willow…"

But, wait.  Isn't the trope that Our Hero gets distracted by the sexy blonde floozy from the Big Bad City…but then he realizes that he really loves his down-home best girl that he's known forever?  So things should be fine for Willow, one assumes.

Except that the "floozy" is the title character, though…

*************************

Quote

LUKE: Bring me the first!

The Bouncer is shoved on stage

BOUNCER:  What do you people want? (Looks at Luke) Dang, what's wrong with your faces?

Er, bro…I know Luke has a spotlight on him now, but he was literally right next to you when he growled at you outside.  You should have noticed the vampire-face then.  

Not that I'm not sad that you die, but I don't think "bouncer" was necessarily the job for you.  Just saying.

******************************

Not From This Episode:

Quote

Luke is draining a blonde girl

THE MASTER (ecstatic):  More!  Give me more!!

LUKE (reacting):  Do you mind?  I'm trying to eat, here.

Or:

Quote

THE MASTER (ecstatic):  More!  Give me more!!

LUKE (reacting):  Hey, I'm drinking as fast as I can, okay?  (under his breath)  Asshole.  (Realizing) Master!  I said "Master"

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Halting Hex

[lembergwatcher]

On 4/11/2022 at 5:53 AM, Halting Hex said:

I've always assumed the point of the computer class scene (besides Cordelia spreading rumors about Buffy and Willow's "deliver" revenge) was to show that Willow was way more advanced than most students, since Cordelia and her blonde friend were just struggling to do basic programming and Willow had that whole "Earthquake" site up and running.

If Willow did have an internet site of her own the site's name should've been Xandria, I'd think 🙃

[Halting Hex]

While, by the time we get to S2, Jay will be reacting to the original [4x3] files, right now he's using that horrible "remaster" and OMG, it's worse than I remember.  Because they cut off the top and the bottom to fake the 16x9 aspect, they can't capture any scene that has elements at both the top and the bottom of the frame, and director John T. Kretchmer liked to use the whole frame.  

For example, in the first Library conference (shown upthread), we have this classic bit:

Quote

 

WILLOW:  Ooh, I need to sit down.

BUFFY:  You are sitting down.

WILLOW:  Oh.  Good for me.

 

But this means that in the "remaster", Buffy is standing next to the seated Willow, and Buffy's head is out of frame, as is the table itself and a good bit of Willow's torso.  It's horrible.

Later on, when Giles is explaining the pending Apocalypse, at least half the time his head is missing, from the eyes up.  And I'm sure I've blanked out other nightmares.

Who tf ever thought it would be a good idea to release this crap?  "Half-assed" is too generous.  This one-eighth-assed, possibly one-sixteenth.  Yuck.