S04.E19: New Moon Rising

[lembergwatcher]

Quote

Oz arrives back in Sunnydale, seemingly able to control his wolf side even during the full moon, and presents Willow with a difficult choice.

Honestly, I'm not a big fun of that episode. I disliked it after seeing it for the first time in the early 2000s and recent rewatch hadn't add much scores from me either. IMO the whole thing was merely a bow to the large army of Willoz fans, who needed reassurance that the Wolfboy was Willow's first and only "twu wuw" before Tara.


Marti gave them what they wanted eventually:

Quote

WILLOW: I missed you, Oz. I wrote you so many letters... but I didn't have any place to send them, you know?.. I couldn't live like that.

OZ: It was stupid to think that you'd just be... waiting.

WILLOW: I was waiting. I feel like some part of me will always be waiting for you. Like if I'm old and blue-haired, and I turn the corner in Istanbul and there you are, I won't be surprised. Because... you're with me, you know?

Oh, come on...
In fact, while watching the scene following Oz's appearance at the front door of Giles apartment and then the pleasant conversation between him and his (former) girlfriend in the dorm room, my initial impression was that the events of Wild at Heart never happened. Like an old friend/lover just came back after a long soulsearching journey. Like there was no fucking with Veruca, no near-death experience for Willow at the hands of both slutty singer and Wolf!Oz himself, no leaving abruptly and telling Willow she didn't have a say in their relationship, no cowardly sneaking back into the dorm to collect the things and moreover no freaking months without writing or calling! And that was the guy, who (according to Joss & Co) happened to be Willow's "first real" love, who, they never get tired to remind us, was the "first" to see Willow that way, the guy she gave most precious thing (her virginity) to...

And, man, I totally hated it when they made Xander (Xander of all people!) constantly act like he and the Wolfboy were "best buds" (when in fact they should have been rivals and sworn enemies).

 

Quote

OZ: I talked to Xander, and he said you didn't have a new guy.

WILLOW: No. No new... guy.

Why on earth did Xander have to account to someone who nearly destroyed his lifelong friendship with Willow about her love life? Why not let him say something like: "Screw you, Wolfboy, I'm not your helping hand to get Willow back! She's too good for ya!"?

Buffy and Riley raised the topic of Oz/Willow breakup in their conversation only to come to this... bizarre exchange of views. First:

Quote

BUFFY: So, I was just about to say something fascinating.

RILEY: Oz and Willow.

BUFFY: Right. They had a rough breakup. Some stuff came up, and Oz pretty much bailed overnight. It left Will really devastated.

RILEY: I remember.

BUFFY: The thing is before that, they were doing great. I mean, she was totally dealing with Oz being a werewolf, it wasn't even-

RILEY: Whoa, wait.

RILEY: Oz is a werewolf, and Willow was dating him?!

BUFFY: Yes. Hence the high emotions.

RILEY: You're kidding me. Gotta say I'm surprised. I didn't think Willow was that kind of girl.

BUFFY: What kind of girl?

RILEY: Into dangerous guys. She seems smarter than that.

BUFFY: Oz is not dangerous. Something happened to him that wasn't his fault. God, I never knew you were such a bigot.

RILEY: Whoa, hey, how did we get to bigot? I'm just saying it's a little weird to date someone who tries to eat you once a month.
BUFFY: Yeah, well love isn't logical, Riley. It's not like you can be Mister Joe Sensible about it all the time.
BUFFY: God knows I haven't been.
RILEY: I'm not talking about you.
BUFFY: How about we don't talk about this at all? Okay? Let's just patrol.

And then:

Quote

BUFFY: I should go home.

RILEY: No, come on. Is it that whole thing about Willow last night? Look, I only said what I said because I'm concerned. I don't wanna see her get hurt.

BUFFY: You sounded like Mr. Initiative. Demons bad, people good.

RILEY: Something wrong with that theorem?
BUFFY: There's different degrees of-
RILEY: Evil?
BUFFY: It's just... different with different demons. There are creatures - vampires, for example -- that aren't evil at all.
RILEY: Name one.

If Oz the Werewolf wasn't dangerous, why keep him locked up in the cage for three nights out of every month? And saying that Angel(us) wasn't evil at all simply because of the old Gypsy spell was an outright exaggeration. And... bigot??? I don't think that word means, what you think it means, Buffy (and Marti!). According to Merriam-Webster bigot is 
 

Quote

: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

Since when did Buffy start to believe the BS about vampires or werewolves being some sort of race/ethnicity. If vampires are an ethnic group with mere a sanguinary issues, then what does that make a vampire slayer look like? Eventually Riley branded as "bigot" proved to be a noble guy, who helped the gang save the poor sod Oz from Initiative's Dr. Mengele-impersonating scientists.

 

Of course, one of the episodes top moments - Willow/Oz conversation under a full moon, when the guitarist proudly showed his new ability to restrain the wolf within, blah-blah-blah. Not so much, as it turned out. The whole confrontation between Oz the Jealous Guy and Tara before the Wolfboy assaulted his former girlfriend's girlfriend was priceless.

Quote

OZ: Hey. I thought I sm...ah, heard Willow.

TARA: Hey. You're um, you're coming back to school here, huh?

OZ: Pretty much. Feeling ... oddly motivated.

TARA: That's um, that's great. I mean, that's, that's great for you and Willow, right?

OZ: I hope so.

TARA: Good, that's, because-

OZ: Is that her sweater?

TARA: I just, I just hope that you guys'll be very ... happy.

OZ: You smell like her. She's all over you, do you know that?
TARA: I can't. I-I can't talk about this. (Tries to walk away. Oz grabs her arm.)

OZ: But there's something to talk about? (Tara just gasps and stares at him.) Are you two involved?!

TARA: I have, I, I, I have to go.

OZ: Cause she never said anything to me like that. We talked all night and she never- (Tara starts to walk away) No, stop! (Grabs her again. Tara looks scared.) Is she in love with you? Tell me, is she?! (Shakes her by the shoulders. Then he lets her go. He's panting. They look down at his hand and it grows fur and claws. Tara looks really scared. Oz looks up. His face is half-wolfed and his eyes are black) Run.

While many view Wild at Heart as some sort of "character assassination" regarding plastic werewolf, it was in fact this moment that showed Oz's true colors. So, Willow dared to have a life of her own, dared to move on? What a despicable act! She didn't bow and inform His Royal Wolfness about her new love interest immediately - shame on her! How dared Willow not to tell every freaking thing about her sex life to her wolfy darling who was totally absent for almost half a year with his whereabouts unknown, huh?! And btw, Oz, it wasn't Willow's fault that your relationship had fallen apart last autumn...

The less is said about Tara in that episode, the better. I understand her being uncomfortable in Oz's presense at first or being slightly freaked-out due to his sudden appearance out of the blue. But what about giving your girlfriend some benefit of the doubt, Tara, baby? What about putting more trust in the person you claim to love and share the bed with? You were together for some time. Why expect the worse? Why suspect your sweetheart would suddenly leave you just because her ex (the actual cheater) finally decided to pay a visit? Willow should have told ya about her and Oz's history. And why the bloody hell not to talk to Willow first and make judgements afterwards???

 

However, all ended well, 'cause Willow has made her choice (the choice Joss wanted her to make, but that's OK). Not that Tara was such a great choice after all, but that's a topic for other discussion.

Overall the final appearance of real Daniel "Oz" Osbourne, who mostly acted like some kind of Willow's shadow throughout his involvement with the Scooby Gang, nearly constantly following his girlfriend post-Amends, occassionaly having a gig with his band or providing some "smart" comment, and whose input for the fight was mild at best (beyond that his wolfy condition three nights in a month was a burden, not a benefit for the Scoobs). Playing "nice guy" and de-flowering Willow weren't enough to be considered better than, say, Xander. So - good riddance, man. Hope you'd made it big with the Dingoes.

 

And last but not least - my reaction to Oz's departure. Both times - then and now.

Edited September 1, 2018 by lembergwatcher

[Spartan Girl]

That whole recap was just beautiful. You said everything I wanted to say and then some.

Oz had zero right to be jealous at all. He left Willow -- right after cheating on her. And we're supposed to feel sowwy for him because Willow moving on retrogressive his wolf side?! Fuck. That.

If there was any love I had left for him after the whole Veruca incident, it was gone in this episode. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out, Plastic Wolf Boy.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Spartan Girl

[lembergwatcher]

1 hour ago, nosleepforme said:

So, it's kind of a dumb idea for him to react to Tara so strongly, especially since he has always been pretty chill about everything. Instead him turning into a werewolf during the day reads as severely homophobic.

I think it was not so much a homophobia, as treating Willow like she's his possession. If he smelled Xander or, say, Giles on Willow at that particular moment, the reaction would have been the same.

 

1 hour ago, nosleepforme said:

He was bit and it's not his fault that he is turning into a werewolf. Should he forever stay alone and keep away from people?

Then turning into vampire wasn't Angel's or Drusilla's fault either. Since Angel, as far as I remember, didn't ask Darla to bite him in that alley and then turn into Angelus in the first place. And yes, he should have. Or he could have mated with someone of his own kind. Him having boners because of Willow was hardly an excuse to put her life in danger IMO (she dealt with too much danger already).

 

1 hour ago, nosleepforme said:

I actually thought this was depicted very realistically.

I didn't say that wasn't realistic. I meant it was somehow illogical within the context of previous events: Oz nearly eating Willow (hence deep psychological trauma), Willow nearly invoking Satan to curse her cheating boyfriend e.t.c.

 

1 hour ago, nosleepforme said:

I'm not sure if they were officially girlfriends at that point,

I guess they've been for a while (since Who Are You at least).
 

Quote

Willow: Buffy's like my best friend, she's really special, and there's this whole bunch of us, and-and we sort of have this group thing that revolves around the slaying and-and I really want you to meet them, but I-I just kinda like having something that's just, you know, mine. And I-I usually don't use so many words to say stuff that little, but, do you get it at all?

Tara: I do.

Willow: I should check in with Giles, get a situation update.

Tara: I am, you know.

Willow: What?

Tara: Yours.

 

1 hour ago, nosleepforme said:

They were never portrayed as best buds

Well, right. Therefore I used brackets for that phrase (for saracastic purposes). Still their interactions were too civil in my humble opinion.

[Halting Hex]

Heh-heh.  Somebody really wasn't a fan of W/O, it seems.

How you made it through all that without pointing out that Oz seems to subtly blaming Willow for his lack of control (both here and in Wild at Heart), I don't know.  That said, wwhk (who adored W/O) did pull on my awww-strings by pointing at that "Feeling…oddly motivated" and getting me to think about Oz re-enrolling so he could be the sort of boyfriend Willow needs.  (I can't help it; caring about Willow is the way to my cold, dead heart.)

And while the "Flaming O" spell was certainly a metaphorical…something, there's also the school of thought that it's not until the, er, climax of this episode that Tara blows out Willow's "extra flamey" candle for the first time, as it were.  That's the problem with being so oblique; the audience doesn't know what's happening or when.  

Myself, I just remember the original promo for this episode, which made Tara blowing out the candle look menacing.  Er, only to a segment of the audience's ultra-conservative views, guys.  Easy on the misdirection, there.

[lembergwatcher]

9 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Heh-heh.  Somebody really wasn't a fan of W/O, it seems.

No I wasn't. And proud of it.

 

9 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

How you made it through all that without pointing out that Oz seems to subtly blaming Willow for his lack of control (both here and in Wild at Heart), I don't know.

Maybe I just didn't pay attention due to the excessive amount of usual W/O sugary stuff. Attention is kinda problem whenever it comes to W/O scenes ("I knew, you jerk" in Wild at Heart being one of the few exceptions), because I felt like I had treacle coming out of my ears. If subtle blaming is the case - then there's an added reason not to treat Wolfboy like "the sort of boyfriend Willow needs" IMO.

 

 

9 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Oz re-enrolling

Edited September 4, 2018 by lembergwatcher

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎01‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 5:04 PM, lembergwatcher said:

Honestly, I'm not a big fun of that episode. I disliked it after seeing it for the first time in the early 2000s and recent rewatch hadn't add much scores from me either. IMO the whole thing was merely a bow to the large army of Willoz fans, who needed reassurance that the Wolfboy was Willow's first and only "twu wuw" before Tara.


Marti gave them what they wanted eventually:

Oh, come on...
In fact, while watching the scene following Oz's appearance at the front door of Giles apartment and then the pleasant conversation between him and his (former) girlfriend in the dorm room, my initial impression was that the events of Wild at Heart never happened. Like an old friend/lover just came back after a long soulsearching journey. Like there was no fucking with Veruca, no near-death experience for Willow at the hands of both slutty singer and Wolf!Oz himself, no leaving abruptly and telling Willow she didn't have a say in their relationship, no cowardly sneaking back into the dorm to collect the things and moreover no freaking months without writing or calling! And that was the guy, who (according to Joss & Co) happened to be Willow's "first real" love, who, they never get tired to remind us, was the "first" to see Willow that way, the guy she gave most precious thing (her virginity) to...

And, man, I totally hated it when they made Xander (Xander of all people!) constantly act like he and the Wolfboy were "best buds" (when in fact they should have been rivals and sworn enemies).

 

Why on earth did Xander have to account to someone who nearly destroyed his lifelong friendship with Willow about her love life? Why not let him say something like: "Screw you, Wolfboy, I'm not your helping hand to get Willow back! She's too good for ya!"?

Buffy and Riley raised the topic of Oz/Willow breakup in their conversation only to come to this... bizarre exchange of views. First:

And then:

If Oz the Werewolf wasn't dangerous, why keep him locked up in the cage for three nights out of every month? And saying that Angel(us) wasn't evil at all simply because of the old Gypsy spell was an outright exaggeration. And... bigot??? I don't think that word means, what you think it means, Buffy (and Marti!). According to Merriam-Webster bigot is 
 

Since when did Buffy start to believe the BS about vampires or werewolves being some sort of race/ethnicity. If vampires are an ethnic group with mere a sanguinary issues, then what does that make a vampire slayer look like? Eventually Riley branded as "bigot" proved to be a noble guy, who helped the gang save the poor sod Oz from Initiative's Dr. Mengele-impersonating scientists.

 

Of course, one of the episodes top moments - Willow/Oz conversation under a full moon, when the guitarist proudly showed his new ability to restrain the wolf within, blah-blah-blah. Not so much, as it turned out. The whole confrontation between Oz the Jealous Guy and Tara before the Wolfboy assaulted his former girlfriend's girlfriend was priceless.

While many view Wild at Heart as some sort of "character assassination" regarding plastic werewolf, it was in fact this moment that showed Oz's true colors. So, Willow dared to have a life of her own, dared to move on? What a despicable act! She didn't bow and inform His Royal Wolfness about her new love interest immediately - shame on her! How dared Willow not to tell every freaking thing about her sex life to her wolfy darling who was totally absent for almost half a year with his whereabouts unknown, huh?! And btw, Oz, it wasn't Willow's fault that your relationship had fallen apart last autumn...

The less is said about Tara in that episode, the better. I understand her being uncomfortable in Oz's presense at first or being slightly freaked-out due to his sudden appearance out of the blue. But what about giving your girlfriend some benefit of the doubt, Tara, baby? What about putting more trust in the person you claim to love and share the bed with? You were together for some time. Why expect the worse? Why suspect your sweetheart would suddenly leave you just because her ex (the actual cheater) finally decided to pay a visit? Willow should have told ya about her and Oz's history. And why the bloody hell not to talk to Willow first and make judgements afterwards???

 

However, all ended well, 'cause Willow has made her choice (the choice Joss wanted her to make, but that's OK). Not that Tara was such a great choice after all, but that's a topic for other discussion.

Overall the final appearance of real Daniel "Oz" Osbourne, who mostly acted like some kind of Willow's shadow throughout his involvement with the Scooby Gang, nearly constantly following his girlfriend post-Amends, occassionaly having a gig with his band or providing some "smart" comment, and whose input for the fight was mild at best (beyond that his wolfy condition three nights in a month was a burden, not a benefit for the Scoobs). Playing "nice guy" and de-flowering Willow weren't enough to be considered better than, say, Xander. So - good riddance, man. Hope you'd made it big with the Dingoes.

 

And last but not least - my reaction to Oz's departure. Both times - then and now.

No, Oz and Xander were pals, they made up by The Zeppo and Xander observes how much he missed him. Plus it wasn't the Verucca affair that split Woz, he couldn't control himself, that was the real reason he left, another Verucca would come along at some point. Love, love, love Tara in this ep, in such a tough position through no fault of her own.

 As for People for the Ethical Treatment of Werewolves it's an obvious analogy and a step Riley had to take to get there.  

On ‎02‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 12:40 AM, Spartan Girl said:

That whole recap was just beautiful. You said everything I wanted to say and then some.

Oz had zero right to be jealous at all. He left Willow -- right after cheating on her. And we're supposed to feel sowwy for him because Willow moving on retrogressive his wolf side?! Fuck. That.

If there was any love I had left for him after the whole Veruca incident, it was gone in this episode. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out, Plastic Wolf Boy.

You're too hard, yes he had no right to be jealous but couldn't help it, he did have a right to be angry that Willow had never told him about Tara when they'd had their night together.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎02‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 10:08 AM, nosleepforme said:

Oz didn't go this crazy about Xander, even though him and Willow had more of a shared history together. So, it's kind of a dumb idea for him to react to Tara so strongly, especially since he has always been pretty chill about everything. Instead him turning into a werewolf during the day reads as severely homophobic.

 

Just one inconsistency in the Buffy world. They change metaphors to justify a certain theme whenever they please, in this case to portray prejudice. Though I'd argue she's right about Oz, at least. He was bit and it's not his fault that he is turning into a werewolf. Should he forever stay alone and keep away from people?

 

I actually thought this was depicted very realistically. Time has gone by, so the circumstances around Oz's leaving don't matter as much anymore. Willow has moved on, but she has never really had closure, so when Oz reappears, she has to confront both what she felt for Oz and her feelings for Tara. And I also found it realistic for Oz to come back and expect to be able to get back together with Willow. We've all had break-ups where we hoped that we could somehow get back together with our partner in the future, if only we figured out our own personal trajectories, only to realize that life just doesn't work out that way.

 

Let's give Tara a pass in this episode, I'm not sure if they were officially girlfriends at that point, even if they were holding hands at the beginning of the episode. Tara knew how much Oz meant to her and she didn't know what Willow felt or whether this was just some college experimentation on her part. It's understandable to have insecurities and doubts, especially when you are the first Lesbian partner of your girlfriend and her first boyfriend returns. Actually, Tara should be applauded for not trying to push Willow to make a decision, instead she tells her 'to follow her heart', even if it may cause some hurt feelings for Tara.  

 

They were never portrayed as best buds, they barely had a scene alone together. Just because they shake hands and Oz asks him about Willow's relationship status doesn't actually mean that they are friends.

Because he and Xander were buds and their fling was water under the bridge. Oz is okay as a werewolf as long as he locks himself up 3 days a months, just like Angel as long as he sticks to pig' blood. We put on Tara's dilemma.

 I always thought Xander and Oz were good friends, they could move on from the Xillow affair, fought alongside one another and do spend quite a long time hanging out in eps like Fear Itself

On ‎02‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 12:07 PM, lembergwatcher said:

I think it was not so much a homophobia, as treating Willow like she's his possession. If he smelled Xander or, say, Giles on Willow at that particular moment, the reaction would have been the same.

Oh, wouldn't that have been a plot twist?

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎04‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 4:14 AM, Halting Hex said:

Heh-heh.  Somebody really wasn't a fan of W/O, it seems.

How you made it through all that without pointing out that Oz seems to subtly blaming Willow for his lack of control (both here and in Wild at Heart), I don't know.  That said, wwhk (who adored W/O) did pull on my awww-strings by pointing at that "Feeling…oddly motivated" and getting me to think about Oz re-enrolling so he could be the sort of boyfriend Willow needs.  (I can't help it; caring about Willow is the way to my cold, dead heart.)

And while the "Flaming O" spell was certainly a metaphorical…something, there's also the school of thought that it's not until the, er, climax of this episode that Tara blows out Willow's "extra flamey" candle for the first time, as it were.  That's the problem with being so oblique; the audience doesn't know what's happening or when.  

Myself, I just remember the original promo for this episode, which made Tara blowing out the candle look menacing.  Er, only to a segment of the audience's ultra-conservative views, guys.  Easy on the misdirection, there.

Really? That was a HUGE awwwww! moment for me, do you have that clip?

[Joe Hellandback]

The Good; Oz is back and not before time, it's all wonderful. No matter how big a Tara fan you are you've got to adore the Willow/Oz goodbye scene

The Bad; The werewolf makeup still stupid, thankfully the last time we'll see it.

Best line; Riley; "No sir, I'm an anarchist"

Women good/men bad; Oz's jealousy of Willow/Tara brings out his more animal nature.

Jeez!; The Initiative experimenting on Oz

Kinky dinky; Riley has now acquired a double bed and Buffy now sleeps in one of his shirts. Buffy imagines that Willow and werewolf Oz have had sex?

Calling Captain Subtext; Buffy's reaction to the news of Will and Tara is a little freaked, interesting that she'll later vent on Riley due to his anti-demon stance (hasn't told him about Angel yet). Compensating through guilt? Buffy remarks about the uncontrollable nature of love, presaging her relationship with Spike. Spike notes that Buffy is a 'whiny little thing' but always wins. So what exactly do Willow and Tara get up to when the candle goes out? Only fanfic can tell! That said Willow never says to Oz 'We can't be together any more because I'm gay', in fact she seems to hold out the offer that they could possibly get back together if circumstances changed so more bi than gay, holding out the possibility for the fans just in case? Xander obviously glad to see Oz back.

Guantanamo Bay; Riley finally rebels against the Initiative

Where's Dawn? What's Dawn's attitude to Oz? I suspect she was a fan although she also loves Tara.

Apocalypses; 5,

Scoobies in bondage: Oz tied up by the Initiative Buffy: 8 Giles: 4 Cordy: 5 Will: 3 Jenny: 1 Angel: 4 Oz: 2 Faith: 3 Joyce: 1 Wes: 1

Scoobies knocked out: Oz againx2 Buffy: 15 Giles: 10 Cordy: 6 Xander: 8 Will: 5 Jenny: 2 Angel: 6 Oz: 5 Faith: 1 Joyce: 2 Wes: 1

Kills: Buffy: 79 vamps, 27 demons, 6 monsters, 3 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot Giles: 5 vamps, 1 demon Cordy: 3 vamps, a demon Will: 4 vamps Angel: 3 vamps, 1 demon, 1 human Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans Xander: 5 vamps, 2 zombies, a demon, a demon Anya: a demon Riley; 12 vamps + 6 demons

Scoobies go evil: Giles: 1 Cordy: 1 Will: 2 Jenny: 1 Angel: 1 Oz: 1 Joyce: 1 Xander: 2

Alternate scoobies: Buffy: 6 Giles: 3 Cordy: 1 Will: 2 Jenny: 2 Angel: 3 Oz: 2 Joyce: 2 Xander: 3

Recurring characters killed: 7 Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh

Sunnydale Death toll; I figure must be around 60?

Total number of scoobies: 7 Giles, Xander, Willow, Buffy, Anya, Riley and Tara attending her first Scooby meeting

Xander demon magnet: 5 Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?)

Scoobies shot: Riley is about to shoot Oz although unless it's loaded with silver bullets you wonder would his pistol affect him in his werewolf form? The Initiative guys surround Riley and Oz, surely if they opened fire they'd kill each other too? Giles: 2 Angel: 3 Oz: 4

Notches on Scooby bedpost: I think we should add Tara to the list for Willow especially as Oz notes Willow's scent is 'all over' Tara. Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny Cordy: 1? Buffy: 3; Angel, Parker, Riley Angel: 1;Buffy Joyce: 1;Giles, possibly Ted Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley Xander: 2; Faith, Anya Willow: 2;Oz and Tara

Questions and observations; The entrance of Connor Farrell, a great actor from Sex and the City, From the Earth to the Moon and especially an obscure old series I used to enjoy called Dark Skies (anyone else remember it? they used to show it very late on C4, basically history from a UFO conspiracists POV). In case anyone doesn't know William Boroughs wrote surrealist novel The Naked Lunch and accidentally shot his wife through the head. Adam was a Boy Scout. So, a werewolf CAN control it's impulses? Maybe Buffy and co should tell

Spoiler

Nina that on Angel? Wasn't it great when Oz turned up in the comics?

 Now according to Keith Toppings book the events of 5x5 occur AFTER this ep. Willow and Tara discuss Miss Kitty. Last mention of Devon. Anya displays her computer skills for the first time. McNamara is the name of Kennedy's defence secretary who is widely blamed for the failure of the Vietnam War and who died just this week.

On my 2009 Buffy calender there's a great picture of Tara and Oz with Willow in the middle. Tara's holding Willow's arm and Will's looking at Oz who looks as if he's about to form an expression as if to say "Sorry babe, I'm with her". I don't think it's a scene from the show but it's a peach of pic.

Marks out of 10; 8/10

Just reviewed three eps in a row on the Angel board so all caught up now. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Joe Hellandback
Angel board

[illdoc]

On 9/5/2018 at 4:20 AM, Joe Hellandback said:

So, a werewolf CAN control it's impulses?

Through lots of meditation & a potion that "smells like feet". There's a book that explores Oz's journey between "Wild at Heart" and "Bad Moon Rising"---Oz: Into the Wild. And, remember, Oz has been, in a sense, "controlling his impulses" (by being locked up) for a couple of years before he left, whereas

Spoiler

Nina has only been doing it for a few months. Oz was also willing to put his life on hold while he looked for a solution. I don't think Nina is willing to do that.

[Halting Hex]

On 9/5/2018 at 2:14 AM, Joe Hellandback said:

Really? That was a HUGE awwwww! moment for me, do you have that clip?

Ask and receive:

Weird, I didn't recall that we saw Tara's left-hand profile as she blows out the candle.  (I thought the shot was flipped, for some reason…perhaps I'm confusing it with the Thespia spell?). But yeah, they definitely make it look as though she's cursing Oz there, which…not so much.

Although Oz may be cursing himself, if he's guessing what's happening while he's getting gone.  Enjoy Istanbul, kid.

[Halting Hex]

On 9/5/2018 at 2:20 AM, Joe Hellandback said:

In case anyone doesn't know William Boroughs wrote surrealist novel The Naked Lunch

I never really got that reference.  As far as I know, The Naked Lunch is about alcoholism, writer's block and gay sex…I don't quite see how military torture figures into it, honestly.

On 9/5/2018 at 2:20 AM, Joe Hellandback said:

Now according to Keith Toppings book the events of 5x5 occur AFTER this ep

More like simultaneously.  Definitely Sanctuary takes place between this and The Yoko Factor.

[Halting Hex]

This post is actually almost entirely about Goodbye, Iowa rather than this episode, but since it assumes knowledge that Willow/Tara do in fact eventually become a couple and I didn't want to have to put the entire giant thing under a spoiler cut, I've moved it a little bit down the line.  Pure NMR content is at the bottom, I promise.

So, one thing I haven't mentioned about Chris (my unspoiled podcaster) is that…he's gay.  That's kind of their shtick:  he's gay, his (spoiled) partner is a lesbian, they met at the campus GSA (where they were the oldest ones there because she'd been in the Navy and he went to military school), etc.  And right off the bat in the Welcome to the Hellmouth podcast, he's like "I have a feeling that Willow might be a lesbian", and I'm like "fuck, so much for 'unspoiled', what a waste this is", etc…

…but it turns out that he was pretty much pulling it out of his butt, because the moment it became obvious how into Xander Willow was, he dropped that idea, and went through years of W/X and W/O without mentioning it again.  And I'd like to think that his brief thought was a subconscious cue he picked up from Willow being all "I could totally help you out!" around Buffy (because of my 'ship preferences), but it might just have been that Chris was bored with the main Scoobies early on (he thought they were bland and white-bread, and only liked Cordelia) and was projecting his desire to have a character he could relate to by imagining Willow being queer, like him.

So we go through the years, with Chris never really warming up to the Scoobs (he prefers "outsider" characters, like Amy and Jenny, and loved early Spike) and we hit this season, and I'm wondering how he's going to react to Tara.  And he's pissed about Hush, because he's "they promised me lesbians!" (re: the 'Lesbian Alliance' banner in Something Blue) and he's getting an interest coming off of Tara (well, duh!) but he just thinks he's being teased, and he doesn't like it.  And with the floating rose in A New Man he's all upset because he thinks this is going to be a "1990s 'progressive'" story, where Tara has these "feelings" and we get a cheap kiss for the sake of the ratings, but the whole point is to show what a wonderful and "accepting" person straight-girl Willow is, for being willing to be nice to her gay friend.  (As opposed to, say, Xander's gay panic around Larry.)  And Chris is like, "fuck that!", he's had enough of that by now.

(HIs frame of reference is The Golden Girls, where apparently they did that, but of course this was all over the place.  My favorite was probably the Friends episode "The One with Rachel's Big Kiss", where Winona Ryder guests as Rachel's once-sorority sister, but recapping that would take too long.  But I can see how this would tick Actual Gay People off, quite easily.)

So when Chris is venting about this in the A New Man podcast ("I don't want to see floating roses, I want to see Tara's face in Willow's pussy!") and his spoiled partner is doing an excellent job of keeping her mouth shut, I'm imagining his response to the upcoming episodes.  I figured he'd be delighted by The I in Team, because of the doll's-eye crystal…but then I imagined how Goodbye, Iowa might really piss him off, because of Tara's sabotaging the Thespia spell.  ("What, they finally give me a lesbian on the show and she's EVIL??", I imagined him raging.)  So I listened to the reviews on those two episodes somewhat on edge.

And I was…half-right.  He was thrilled by The I in Team, being all "I told you so!" about Willow spending all night in Tara's room (because obviously that awkward scene where Buffy and Willow come home to find they both spent the night out means they were both out getting some, right?), but his reaction in the next podcast was rather different.  It turns out that he was so damn angry to find out that W/T actually spent that night "doing spells" rather than doing each other that "I nearly threw my remote into the TV!" and…he missed Tara sabotaging the spell, completely!  His partner* had to clue him in.  Lol.  

Now that's someone getting really invested.  Poor dude.  (Meanwhile, my video reactor, Shan, is still mourning the end of Willow/Oz, and hasn't picked up any interest or subtext for W/T, at all. I've only seen her vids up to A New Man, though.  But I guess for a certain segment of the audience, a floating rose was a rose was a rose, and nothing more.)

I mean, I can understand Chris's disappointment when Willow's pretty explicit about what did (and didn't) happen during 4.13:

Quote

WILLOW:  I had so much fun the other night, those spells.

And worse when it becomes a drug metaphor (like back with Eyghon) and Chris's long-sought possible-lesbian is now acting like a pusher:

Quote

WILLOW: I hope you don't think that I just come over for the spells and everything. I mean ,I really like just talking and hanging out with you and stuff.

TARA: I know that. But you wanna do a spell.

But I can't help but be amused at how he missed the entire point of the scene because he was so annoyed.  Oh, well, by this point (just five episodes later) he'll know he isn't being teased, so hopefully he's much happier.  (I haven't gotten to this point in the podcasts; as I noted at the top, I'm only talking about this here, rather than in the Goodbye, Iowa topic because here I can definitively state that yes, W/T are a thing, whereas that would be a spoiler in that thread.)  I'll find out soon, I guess.  (And I'll also see how Shan reacts to Oz coming back and finding out about this…she's still holding out hope for Bangel, after all, might be hard to ask her to give up Wiz, too.)

As for this episode (finally!  Thanks for your patience, lol), I can't help but imagine what might have happened if Oz had been a little less quick on the "run!" command…or if Tara hadn't fought him off as she did…or if Forrest and the gang hadn't shown up just in the nick of time.  I mean, 

…Tara might have gotten scratched

…and then she would be a werewolf, too

…and she would probably have left town with Oz (the bond of the wolf triumphing over lesbianism, just as it triumphed over Oz's love for Willow)

…and Willow would be like "AGAIN? For fuck's sake…"

So I guess, um, good show, Forrest/Graham?  Maybe.  

I mean, I don't want Willow to get her heart completely shattered, once more, even if I wouldn't mind Tara catching a van out of town, personally…

(*-no, I don't know Chris's partner's name; they use pseudonyms in the podcasts and I'm not going to use those here.  I picked up Chris's name off of the website, and it was confirmed in one of the podcasts that people call him that IRL [although apparently it's not his actual name, either…but that's his business, I suppose], so I don't mind using it.  It's close enough to "real" to satisfy me, but I don't have anything like that for her, so she'll just be "his partner" for now, I suppose.  My own neuroses at work, I guess. Anyhoo…)

[Joe Hellandback]

2 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

This post is actually almost entirely about Goodbye, Iowa rather than this episode, but since it assumes knowledge that Willow/Tara do in fact eventually become a couple and I didn't want to have to put the entire giant thing under a spoiler cut, I've moved it a little bit down the line.  Pure NMR content is at the bottom, I promise.

So, one thing I haven't mentioned about Chris (my unspoiled podcaster) is that…he's gay.  That's kind of their shtick:  he's gay, his (spoiled) partner is a lesbian, they met at the campus GSA (where they were the oldest ones there because she'd been in the Navy and he went to military school), etc.  And right off the bat in the Welcome to the Hellmouth podcast, he's like "I have a feeling that Willow might be a lesbian", and I'm like "fuck, so much for 'unspoiled', what a waste this is", etc…

…but it turns out that he was pretty much pulling it out of his butt, because the moment it became obvious how into Xander Willow was, he dropped that idea, and went through years of W/X and W/O without mentioning it again.  And I'd like to think that his brief thought was a subconscious cue he picked up from Willow being all "I could totally help you out!" around Buffy (because of my 'ship preferences), but it might just have been that Chris was bored with the main Scoobies early on (he thought they were bland and white-bread, and only liked Cordelia) and was projecting his desire to have a character he could relate to by imagining Willow being queer, like him.

So we go through the years, with Chris never really warming up to the Scoobs (he prefers "outsider" characters, like Amy and Jenny, and loved early Spike) and we hit this season, and I'm wondering how he's going to react to Tara.  And he's pissed about Hush, because he's "they promised me lesbians!" (re: the 'Lesbian Alliance' banner in Something Blue) and he's getting an interest coming off of Tara (well, duh!) but he just thinks he's being teased, and he doesn't like it.  And with the floating rose in A New Man he's all upset because he thinks this is going to be a "1990s 'progressive'" story, where Tara has these "feelings" and we get a cheap kiss for the sake of the ratings, but the whole point is to show what a wonderful and "accepting" person straight-girl Willow is, for being willing to be nice to her gay friend.  (As opposed to, say, Xander's gay panic around Larry.)  And Chris is like, "fuck that!", he's had enough of that by now.

(HIs frame of reference is The Golden Girls, where apparently they did that, but of course this was all over the place.  My favorite was probably the Friends episode "The One with Rachel's Big Kiss", where Winona Ryder guests as Rachel's once-sorority sister, but recapping that would take too long.  But I can see how this would tick Actual Gay People off, quite easily.)

So when Chris is venting about this in the A New Man podcast ("I don't want to see floating roses, I want to see Tara's face in Willow's pussy!") and his spoiled partner is doing an excellent job of keeping her mouth shut, I'm imagining his response to the upcoming episodes.  I figured he'd be delighted by The I in Team, because of the doll's-eye crystal…but then I imagined how Goodbye, Iowa might really piss him off, because of Tara's sabotaging the Thespia spell.  ("What, they finally give me a lesbian on the show and she's EVIL??", I imagined him raging.)  So I listened to the reviews on those two episodes somewhat on edge.

And I was…half-right.  He was thrilled by The I in Team, being all "I told you so!" about Willow spending all night in Tara's room (because obviously that awkward scene where Buffy and Willow come home to find they both spent the night out means they were both out getting some, right?), but his reaction in the next podcast was rather different.  It turns out that he was so damn angry to find out that W/T actually spent that night "doing spells" rather than doing each other that "I nearly threw my remote into the TV!" and…he missed Tara sabotaging the spell, completely!  His partner* had to clue him in.  Lol.  

Now that's someone getting really invested.  Poor dude.  (Meanwhile, my video reactor, Shan, is still mourning the end of Willow/Oz, and hasn't picked up any interest or subtext for W/T, at all. I've only seen her vids up to A New Man, though.  But I guess for a certain segment of the audience, a floating rose was a rose was a rose, and nothing more.)

I mean, I can understand Chris's disappointment when Willow's pretty explicit about what did (and didn't) happen during 4.13:

And worse when it becomes a drug metaphor (like back with Eyghon) and Chris's long-sought possible-lesbian is now acting like a pusher:

But I can't help but be amused at how he missed the entire point of the scene because he was so annoyed.  Oh, well, by this point (just five episodes later) he'll know he isn't being teased, so hopefully he's much happier.  (I haven't gotten to this point in the podcasts; as I noted at the top, I'm only talking about this here, rather than in the Goodbye, Iowa topic because here I can definitively state that yes, W/T are a thing, whereas that would be a spoiler in that thread.)  I'll find out soon, I guess.  (And I'll also see how Shan reacts to Oz coming back and finding out about this…she's still holding out hope for Bangel, after all, might be hard to ask her to give up Wiz, too.)

As for this episode (finally!  Thanks for your patience, lol), I can't help but imagine what might have happened if Oz had been a little less quick on the "run!" command…or if Tara hadn't fought him off as she did…or if Forrest and the gang hadn't shown up just in the nick of time.  I mean, 

…Tara might have gotten scratched

…and then she would be a werewolf, too

…and she would probably have left town with Oz (the bond of the wolf triumphing over lesbianism, just as it triumphed over Oz's love for Willow)

…and Willow would be like "AGAIN? For fuck's sake…"

So I guess, um, good show, Forrest/Graham?  Maybe.  

I mean, I don't want Willow to get her heart completely shattered, once more, even if I wouldn't mind Tara catching a van out of town, personally…

(*-no, I don't know Chris's partner's name; they use pseudonyms in the podcasts and I'm not going to use those here.  I picked up Chris's name off of the website, and it was confirmed in one of the podcasts that people call him that IRL [although apparently it's not his actual name, either…but that's his business, I suppose], so I don't mind using it.  It's close enough to "real" to satisfy me, but I don't have anything like that for her, so she'll just be "his partner" for now, I suppose.  My own neuroses at work, I guess. Anyhoo…)

Will had a lesbian following from the beginning, there was just something about her that screamed Sapphic snuggles, hard to put your finger on why?

[Halting Hex]

On 9/1/2018 at 12:04 PM, lembergwatcher said:

While many view Wild at Heart as some sort of "character assassination" regarding plastic werewolf, it was in fact this moment that showed Oz's true colors.

And, while watching Shan's reaction vid, I realized that my "I got a vibe that Oz blames Willow for his wolf-issues both here and in Wild at Heart" is incorrect; what was subtextual there becomes canon here, viz:

Quote

OZ: It turns out the one thing that brings it on, is you. Which falls under the heading of ironic in my book.

Which falls under the heading of "possessive dick" in my book.  But, as discussed, he did repeat an entire year of school just to keep sniffing around Willow, so not surprising, I guess.

Back to the episode…Shan of course 'ships both W/O and W/T (I told you, she's prototypical of the general audience), so this one is right in her pocket and she's all torn and stuff.  I, on the other hand, really couldn't care.  When I ranked the S4 episodes on TWoP, this came a rocking 20th of 22 (above only The Initiative and Living Conditions) and I called it Oz or Tara, Who to Choose?*  and continued somewhat in this vein:

Quote

I so don't care! Choose Buffy! Choose Xander! Choose Giles! Choose masturbation!

So not exactly a lot of rewatching for me on this one.  

Which was apparently a mistake, because when watching Shan's reactions, I found something awesome!

Holy shit!  Giles saved the card catalogue from the Library!  Which is completely stupid (you do know that like 90-95% of the cards in that are for ordinary books that you blew up, right, G-Man?), but still sort of cute, knowing that a part of the Library lives on.  Awww.

I literally never noticed that before.  And we see Giles's apartment in almost every episode of S4.  It is back in an alcove, but even so.  (I guess there's some benefit to being so bored with the main plot that I'm taking in the decor, huh? Lol.)

Likewise, I knew that the lecture hall that Oz-wolf chases Tara into is completely empty…but I'd forgotten that when Oz is being all aggro to Tara ("Is that her sweater?" "She's all over you, do you know that?") the corridor and stairwell are likewise completely vacant.  Did Joss blow the entire budget for extras on the last few episodes?  Or was the director concerned that there'd be no way to explain why anybody witnessing Oz acting this way didn't try to get him to back off?  After all, it's not as if passers-by would know Oz is a wolf.  And regular Oz isn't exactly threatening-seeming, after all.

All I know is that, while the script says that the lecture hall is empty, it says nothing about the corridor being likewise so.  But damn is that empty…

Seriously, Joss, hire some extras.  It just looks weird, this way.

Oh, and the script specifies that Tara is, in fact, wearing Willow's sweater.  So Wolf-Boy has his big psycho freak-out because Tara borrowed Willow's clothing?  Somebody really should tell him that girls actually do swap clothing without necessarily having sex.  Sounds as though Oz has let his mind run into the gutter during all those lonely nights in the van…

*-Yes, it should have been "Whom". My bad.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Halting Hex

[Jack Shaftoe]

Amazing how Oz's Supernose turns on and off depending on plot requirements. It would have been nice if he could have smelled Angel on Buffy back in early season 3, for instance.

Quote

Shan of course 'ships both W/O and W/T (I told you, she's prototypical of the general audience),

Really? You would think the general audience would ship one or none of those.

Quote

Will had a lesbian following from the beginning, there was just something about her that screamed Sapphic snuggles, hard to put your finger on why?

I think "AH is really hot" is reason enough, to be honest.

[lembergwatcher]

1 hour ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

It would have been nice if he could have smelled Angel on Buffy back in early season 3, for instance.

Oz's SuperNose is strictly Willow-oriented.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎18‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 2:33 PM, Halting Hex said:

And, while watching Shan's reaction vid, I realized that my "I got a vibe that Oz blames Willow for his wolf-issues both here and in Wild at Heart" is incorrect; what was subtextual there becomes canon here, viz:

Which falls under the heading of "possessive dick" in my book.  But, as discussed, he did repeat an entire year of school just to keep sniffing around Willow, so not surprising, I guess.

Back to the episode…Shan of course 'ships both W/O and W/T (I told you, she's prototypical of the general audience), so this one is right in her pocket and she's all torn and stuff.  I, on the other hand, really couldn't care.  When I ranked the S4 episodes on TWoP, this came a rocking 20th of 22 (above only The Initiative and Living Conditions) and I called it Oz or Tara, Who to Choose?*  and continued somewhat in this vein:

So not exactly a lot of rewatching for me on this one.  

Which was apparently a mistake, because when watching Shan's reactions, I found something awesome!

Holy shit!  Giles saved the card catalogue from the Library!  Which is completely stupid (you do know that like 90-95% of the cards in that are for ordinary books that you blew up, right, G-Man?), but still sort of cute, knowing that a part of the Library lives on.  Awww.

I literally never noticed that before.  And we see Giles's apartment in almost every episode of S4.  It is back in an alcove, but even so.  (I guess there's some benefit to being so bored with the main plot that I'm taking in the decor, huh? Lol.)

Likewise, I knew that the lecture hall that Oz-wolf chases Tara into is completely empty…but I'd forgotten that when Oz is being all aggro to Tara ("Is that her sweater?" "She's all over you, do you know that?") the corridor and stairwell are likewise completely vacant.  Did Joss blow the entire budget for extras on the last few episodes?  Or was the director concerned that there'd be no way to explain why anybody witnessing Oz acting this way didn't try to get him to back off?  After all, it's not as if passers-by would know Oz is a wolf.  And regular Oz isn't exactly threatening-seeming, after all.

All I know is that, while the script says that the lecture hall is empty, it says nothing about the corridor being likewise so.  But damn is that empty…

Seriously, Joss, hire some extras.  It just looks weird, this way.

Oh, and the script specifies that Tara is, in fact, wearing Willow's sweater.  So Wolf-Boy has his big psycho freak-out because Tara borrowed Willow's clothing?  Somebody really should tell him that girls actually do swap clothing without necessarily having sex.  Sounds as though Oz has let his mind run into the gutter during all those lonely nights in the van…

*-Yes, it should have been "Whom". My bad.

Give Oz a break, he wanted his Willow back and when he found he couldn't have her he walked away with great dignity. Presumably Willow's scent on Tara went beyond just clothes as she and Buffy seem to share to judge by their comments. 

On ‎18‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 4:51 PM, Jack Shaftoe said:

Amazing how Oz's Supernose turns on and off depending on plot requirements. It would have been nice if he could have smelled Angel on Buffy back in early season 3, for instance.

Really? You would think the general audience would ship one or none of those.

I think "AH is really hot" is reason enough, to be honest.

Angel and Buffy weren't being intimate in the same way as Tara/Willow. 

[lembergwatcher]

Quote

OZ: I talked to Xander, and he said you didn't have a new guy.

WILLOW: No. No new... guy.

(Oz smiles and takes her hand.)

OZ: I know what I put you through, and I'm not gonna push. But I am... a different person than when I left. And I can be what you need now. (Willow looks sad.) That's what I want. That's why I'm here.

That's what you get when you allow someone like Oz to dominate you in the so-called relationship. The guy is so certain he's the only thing Willow thinks about 24/7, it doesn't even occur to the Wolfie Boy that his former girlfriend has a life of her own and doesn't wait for her ex-lover with open arms.

And they say Xander is a dick but Oz is a wonderful guy, the best choice for Willow. Sheesh.

[Halting Hex]

While I'm sure that Marti is happy to make Xander look stupid (by missing the clue about Tara) and Willow deceitful ("No new…guy"), I'm…not so much happy about that.  What I want to know is why Oz is relying on Xander to snitch out the details Willow's love life, exactly?

Quote

OZ:  So, is Willow dating anyone?  A new boyfriend?

XANDER:  What am I, Willow's press agent?  Ask her yourself, dick.

But of course, if Oz had to actually engage with Willow, rather than be all "informed" when starts the conversation, he wouldn't be able to contradict himself at warp speed:

Quote

OZ: I'm not gonna push. [Literally five seconds later!] And I can be what you need now

Hey, Oz?  That's pushing, dude.  Seriously.

Spoiler

In the very next episode, Buffy will blow her top at Xander for having told Riley the details of her and Angel's relationship.  But apparently it's just ducky for Oz to need Xander to dime out Willow about her private life.  Sheesh.

Edited January 27, 2019 by Halting Hex

[lembergwatcher]

In a way Oz reminds me of Angel. And not just because the two of them have a beast inside. Same dickish personality, selfishness and insensitivity. Both are assholes to the core, both are Joss' and the fandom's favorites.

Angel. Pretty sure Buffy will give him an undeserved second chance (why would she do that??) after popping out naked from dimensional portal, i.e. obviously jealous hearing Slayer mentioning her new boyfriend (Homecoming), says he "doesn't accept" Buffy not coming back to him (Lovers Walk). "There's gotta be some way we can still see each other", remember? Oh yeah? Well, fuck you, asshole! Doesn't apologize to Giles for murdering his lover and brutally torturing him for hours until being pushed over the edge by The First (Amends). Nevertheless Giles should count himself "lucky", 'cause neither Willow nor Xander get anything reminiscent of an apology. In fact, I don't remember Captain Forehead even thanking Willow for restoring his soul and thus giving him another chance. Tries to "protect" Buffy behind her back putting all her friends in this (Pangs), then erases her memories about one of the happiest moments the two had shared together (I Will Remember You). Acts like a dick with the supposed love of his (un)life when she comes after Faith to LA (Sanctuary). What a noble guy!

Oz. Does Willow a favor by taking her back, promising to leave everything behind (Amends). Breaks his own promise the moment he's caught with his pants down (Wild at Heart). "I know how it feels. I remember." Well, of course you do, dick. Because what Willow had with Xander and your sex with Veruca is the same freakin' thing, isn't it? Doesn't make a single attempt to fix things  with Willow, packs his bags instead telling his heartbroken girlfriend she doesn't get a say in their relationship. No letters or phone calls from him for more than half a year. Then comes back to Sunnydale like nothing's ever happened. After finding out there's "no new guy" immediately assumes His Royal Wolfness is exactly what Willow "needs" at the moment. It doesn't even occur to him that Willow had no other choice left but to go on with her life without guitarist in the picture and there's nothing he can truly expect from her after months of radio silence. Still no proper apologies for Veruca and Willow's near-death experience. Attacks Tara because she... smells like Willow (what a terrible crime!) and, finally, leaves once again saying Willow is to blame for his condition ("I mean, it turns out... the one thing that brings it out in me is you..."). Oz, boy, just fuck yourself and leave already!..

If Xander told Willow he started his kissing sessions with Cordy solely because Willow wasn't pushy enough in trying to win his heart, the fandom would've wanted the guy swallowed by the Hellmouth right there, but Oz... he's such a noble guy, such a prince...  

Man, how I wanted X/O conversation about Willow's post-Oz love life to be like this:

Quote

OZ:  So, is Willow dating anyone?  A new boyfriend?

XANDER:  Well... (Oz raises his eyebrow) actually... yeah, she's dating.

OZ: You mean, Willow has a new boyfriend?

XANDER: Yes, she has.

OZ (getting some frustrated look on this face): Do you know who he is? (Xander doesn't answer). Xander!..

XANDER (taking a deep breath): Of course, I know him.

OZ (impatiently): So?..

XANDER (smiling his trademark goofy smile): He's me.

OZ (in shock and disbelief): You???

XANDER: Me.

OZ (angry): It's a joke, isn't it???

XANDER: No, no jokes. Me and Willow are dating.

OZ (even angrier): How could *you* do this to me???

XANDER (calmly): Deal with it.

OZ (quickly turns into his hairy self): Run!

[lembergwatcher]

Looks like those two weren't always bitter rivals.

[Jack Shaftoe]

I see that costume designers hated Amber on other sets too.

[Halting Hex]

What, you don't think "1960s NBC test pattern" is a good look for her?

[Halting Hex]

Quote

OZ: It was stupid to think that you'd just be... waiting.

Well, yes, it was.  But, to be fair to WolfBoy, Willow does have form here.

The difference is that, unlike in The Wish/Amends, Willow isn't just waiting around and groveling, hoping Oz deigns to take her back.  She's moved on with her life, in a new and (theoretically) exciting direction.  

One extended grovel to a customer, pal. (Which IMO was one too many, in the first place.). Git along, li'l dogie, git along.

[lembergwatcher]

On 1/9/2022 at 7:44 PM, Halting Hex said:

Quote

OZ: It was stupid to think that you'd just be... waiting.

Well, yes, it was.

Stupidity is what plagues many of the Buffyverse characters' thoughts and deeds post-graduation. So there's no wonder the Dogboy thought Willow was going to wait for him for ages... 

[Halting Hex]

Quote

OZ: It was stupid to think that you'd just be... waiting

WILLOW:  I was waiting.

Well, to quote an episode (and character) that I very rarely quote:

Spoiler

ANYA:  I tried being patient, but it took too long.

—Bargaining, Part 1

Pearls from swine. I suppose.

I do feel somewhat bad for Oz, and I would point out that it's only Willow he can't be with, so to paraphrase my advice to Angel:

"There's other [cute Jewish nerds] out there.  Go to [Scarsdale] or something."

But then I remember this:

Quote

BUFFY (re Willow):  There aren't two of her in the world.

—Lie to Me

and I have to defer to the expert.

I mean, even Oz himself gets that:

Quote

OZ: Nobody like my Willow

XANDER:  No, sir, there is not.

-Choices

So, we're right back at "sucks to be you, Wolf-Boy", I suppose.

Quote

GILES:  Shall I assay remorse?

—Graduation Day, part 2

Nah.

[lembergwatcher]

On 5/31/2022 at 6:32 PM, Halting Hex said:

It was stupid to think that you'd just be... waiting

Gosh, Dogboy, you're Captain Obvious now... 
Oz had to nearly screw-up Willow's new blossoming love, almost eat Tara and get his arse handed to him by the Initiative scientific team to learn this simple truth.