S04.E09: Something Blue

[Joe Hellandback]

The Good; The ep to put joy into the hearts of Spuffers everywhere. Brilliantly funny with some emotional resonance with Willow and Xander and Anya's relationship taking a step forwards. Plus AMY! Nice little touches too like Giles' 'Kiss the librarian' mug

The Bad; Some of the demons look a bit ropey. Why does Willow's spell on the other's work instantly but Giles only becomes progressively blind?

Best line; Xander; "What? How? What?" Giles; "3 excellent questions?"

Tied up; Spike chained in the bathtub

Women good/men bad; Buffy comments that her dad isn't too far away which means they're not

Spoiler

estranged yet

Jeez!; Anya says that she used to do spells to give men 'Boils on the penis'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kinky dinky; Buffy teasing a chained up Spike with her neck. Plus naked Amy. Xander tells Anya to consider his lips the 'fruit roll ups of love'. Willow shakes her booty on the dancefloor. Willow comments on all the demons who are attracted to Xander. Buffy ponders her attraction to dark relationships? Xander pictures her in Raquel Welsh's buckskin bikini from 1 Million Year BC. D'Hoffryn strokes Will's face (he seems to consider his female demons akin to his daughters?)

Calling Captain Subtext; Note it's Spike who notices that Willow is still in pain. Perhaps William the Bloody;sensitive poet isn't totally gone after all? Spike's 'little brother' jealousy of Angel is still evident. Riley helps out the UC Sunnydale Lesbian Alliance by hanging their banner up and tells Buffy that he's a lesbian (he wishes!). Willow agrees that Riley has good arms (another tick in the Bi box)

Spoiler

Where's Dawn? Presumably returned with Buffy from visiting their dad in LA. Buffy doesn't seem to get around to telling Dawn and Joyce about her engagement. Spike seems to cast aspersions on Joyce's naming of Buffy which is weird as he normally thinks the world of her.

Questions and observations; Hugely funny, nice to see that Willow mourning her loss of Oz hasn't just been forgotten about. A step forwards for Spike and D'hoffryn back again. Buffy again refers to her not being the greatest driver. Willow still has the pics at the pier from season 3 of Buffy. Buffy kills one vamp and Xander drowns a demon. Buffy says that they may be into a forgetting spell later and indeed

Spoiler

in season 6 they are.

Marks out of 10; 8/10

[Halting Hex]

"Gee, wouldn't that be funny if a spell made Buffy and Spike act like they were 'in love'? Because obviously that could never happen.  It's like Band Candy and what we did to the Giles/Joyce 'shippers:  give the Spuffy nuts what they want, in the worst possible way, and then they'll go away!  I'm such a genius!!"

Spoiler

STFU, Joss.  Also, Kill Me Now.

Inferior to Tracy Forbes's similarly-structured Beer Bad (something renders Buffy nutty and the group has to deal without her contributing, again; this one is lacking the feminist smackdown on Spike that the other laid on Parker) and it's wayyyyyy too slow to get started, but it does have a few minor pleasures, such as Marc Blucas doing such a great job of earnest befuddlement outside the bridal shop.

And, of course, Willow in the red pajamas, lighting the candles.  The record-holder for pause-button workouts, series-wide. :D

But overall, weak.  4/10

Spoiler

1/10 if you know where this shit is headed.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎17‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 3:42 AM, Halting Hex said:

"Gee, wouldn't that be funny if a spell made Buffy and Spike act like they were 'in love'? Because obviously that could never happen.  It's like Band Candy and what we did to the Giles/Joyce 'shippers:  give the Spuffy nuts what they want, in the worst possible way, and then they'll go away!  I'm such a genius!!"

  Hide contents

STFU, Joss.  Also, Kill Me Now.

Inferior to Tracy Forbes's similarly-structured Beer Bad (something renders Buffy nutty and the group has to deal without her contributing, again; this one is lacking the feminist smackdown on Spike that the other laid on Parker) and it's wayyyyyy too slow to get started, but it does have a few minor pleasures, such as Marc Blucas doing such a great job of earnest befuddlement outside the bridal shop.

And, of course, Willow in the red pajamas, lighting the candles.  The record-holder for pause-button workouts, series-wide. :D

But overall, weak.  4/10

  Reveal hidden contents

1/10 if you know where this shit is headed.

 

Now, now, Joyce and Giles together was a hilarious gift, Buffy and Spike seems a little forced I agree but it still has comic potential (you're going to have a hard time with these reviews when we hit season 6!). The funny here comes from each of the Scoobs having their own trouble to deal with not to mention Willow's basic dilemma with D'Hoffryn. Personally I prefer Willow in Xander's shirt in BBB

7 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

Yeah that is kind of where the episode loses me, given 

 

I did however like the idea of Willow becoming a threat and D'Hoffryn reappearing to offer her a position as one of his vengeance demons. It's one of the first hints that Willow is going to be a powerful force to be reckoned with.

Generally, I think this episode would have been better if it had been darker and not focused as much on providing laughs. There was some real meat to the storyline, but instead they decided to focus on how funny Buffy and Spike would be as overly annoying fiancés. 

It is a light ep and very much a case of giving the fans what they want, in fairness we do have Willow beginning to get over Oz. 

Edited August 18, 2018 by Joe Hellandback

[lembergwatcher]

If only Willow had turned around and saw naked Amy...

Spoiler

Probably the whole Tara thing never would have happened...

 

[lembergwatcher]

Good observation.

[Halting Hex]

Hey, Willow was "will-be-done"-ing a naked girl on her bed.

Spoiler

Foreshadowing?

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎28‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 3:16 PM, lembergwatcher said:

If only Willow had turned around and saw naked Amy...

  Hide contents

Probably the whole Tara thing never would have happened...

 

Of if Buffy had? I assume Will had seen plenty of naked Amy over the years, sharing the SDH showers. 

[lembergwatcher]

14 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

I assume Will had seen plenty of naked Amy over the years, sharing the SDH showers.

It's one thing seeing Amy in the school shower. And another thing finding her sitting on your own bed...

[Halting Hex]

So I'm watching Shan's reaction vid here (and wow, is she not feeling Riley's cringeworthy "driving" talk, given that she just got another taste of her beloved Bangel in I Will Remember You…and she's typical of a lot of the audience.  Poor planning, Joss) and we get to the part where Willow's spell hits, and Giles sees Spike proposing to Buffy and…

…for the first time, I notice the big ol' rock on Buffy's hand.  Where did that come from?  Did Spike have it in his pocket? Why?  It's not as if he had time to run out and buy one (plus, you know, daylight…) and it's clearly not Buffy's ring.  So did Willow just spontaneously generate it with the spell?  Impressive detail work, I suppose…but then why does Buffy have to go out and buy a dress?

Well, hack writing, obviously.  Tracey Forbes isn't thinking about internal consistency or plot logic, she just wants her yuks.  Which, fair enough, but I like it when writers work harder for them.  Even Forbes's own Beer Bad benefited from doing its research, both on Walsh's deconstruction of the id in her opening monologue, and the Cave!Snobs' pseudo-intellectual sneering at Xander.  This sets up the best jokes, Willow's seeing through Parker's manipulations and Xander's rant about "the geopolitical ramifications of being mean to me!"  Which is why I like Beer Bad better than this one…she worked to make that episode work, and this is just a farcical collage, basically.  But JMO.

[wendyg]

It's not a rock; it's a skull ring that Spike normally wears.

[Halting Hex]

Ohh, Spike wears it?  Never noticed before.  But I don't really pay that much attention to Spike's physical details; it took me literally years before I noticed the scar in his eyebrow and that's almost character-defining, after all.  (And even then, that was only after somebody online pointed it out.)

Complaint rescinded, then.  Thanks.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎01‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 10:03 PM, lembergwatcher said:

It's one thing seeing Amy in the school shower. And another thing finding her sitting on your own bed...

Both work for me. 

22 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

So I'm watching Shan's reaction vid here (and wow, is she not feeling Riley's cringeworthy "driving" talk, given that she just got another taste of her beloved Bangel in I Will Remember You…and she's typical of a lot of the audience.  Poor planning, Joss) and we get to the part where Willow's spell hits, and Giles sees Spike proposing to Buffy and…

…for the first time, I notice the big ol' rock on Buffy's hand.  Where did that come from?  Did Spike have it in his pocket? Why?  It's not as if he had time to run out and buy one (plus, you know, daylight…) and it's clearly not Buffy's ring.  So did Willow just spontaneously generate it with the spell?  Impressive detail work, I suppose…but then why does Buffy have to go out and buy a dress?

Well, hack writing, obviously.  Tracey Forbes isn't thinking about internal consistency or plot logic, she just wants her yuks.  Which, fair enough, but I like it when writers work harder for them.  Even Forbes's own Beer Bad benefited from doing its research, both on Walsh's deconstruction of the id in her opening monologue, and the Cave!Snobs' pseudo-intellectual sneering at Xander.  This sets up the best jokes, Willow's seeing through Parker's manipulations and Xander's rant about "the geopolitical ramifications of being mean to me!"  Which is why I like Beer Bad better than this one…she worked to make that episode work, and this is just a farcical collage, basically.  But JMO.

You should watch Torchwood Boy's reviews, they're great. 

[lembergwatcher]

It took Xander a month (?) of constant groveling to make it up to Willow for his "magic gone wild" in BB&B. All Willow needs to make up for her messed-up and potentially life-threatening spell in Something Blue are... cookies... Gosh, why wasn't Xander so smart back then? He could have asked his mom to bake some cookies and received an instant forgiveness. 

But I prefer Xander to sometimes be less gentle and take lessons from stronger Buffyverse female characters. Which means no talking for over a month or humiliating and saying mean things at every opportunity. Why not? People think it's cool and it's gotta be fun, right?

[Halting Hex]

1.  It wasn't a month, after all.  Passion aired two weeks after BB&B.

2.  Cookies >>>> groveling.  Obviously.

3.  Do you really want Mrs. Harris to try to rehab her son's image by baking?

Quote

XANDER:  My mom's making her famous call to the Chinese place.

WILLOW:  Do you guys even have a stove?

—Out of Mind, Out of Sight

4.  Don't forget, Willow also has to detail Giles's car.

5.  Xander's spell, although understandable, was malicious in intent.  ("I intend revenge.  Pure and simple.")  He only got it cast through blackmail.  Whereas Willow just plain screwed up.  A lesser offense, surely.  (Not to mention emotional distress.)

6.  On a cynical note, Giles clearly has an interest in keeping Willow available as a spellcaster.  Whereas Xander isn't a witch.  Sucks if you're Xander, but might explain any unequal treatment you're being sensitive about.

7.  Again, cookies!

Edited January 25, 2019 by Halting Hex

[lembergwatcher]

4 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Do you really want Mrs. Harris to try to rehab her son's image by baking?

I have a problem imagining Xander standing near the oven.

 

4 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Xander's spell, although understandable, was malicious in intent.  ("I intend revenge.  Pure and simple.")  He only got it cast through blackmail.  Whereas Willow just plain screwed up.  A lesser offense, surely.  (Not to mention emotional distress.)

Xander's spell wasn't malicious towards Willow in any way, shape or form (Angelus didn't attack Willow in BB&B, after all). While Willow's spell - albeit unintentionally - nearly got Xander and everyone else killed. Hardly a lesser offence, I dare say.  

[lembergwatcher]

Looks like someone's missing lots of wolfie hair in the nostrils, on her lips and face. Hardly a hygienic thing to do, Will. And slightly masochistic.

It gets even "better" though.

Quote

Willow: Devon said that he sent for his stuff. I guess that means he's planning on settling down somewhere.. else. Not here.

Buffy: I guess so..

Willow: I feel like I've been split down the center and half of me is lost.

Buffy: I know. It feels like that now..

Willow: Oz is gone.

Legions of Willoz fans probably smiled with delight in front of screens while watching that travesty episode.  I just don't know what excited them most: the fact that the whole Veruca affair turned out to be totally forgotten and forgiven (only Xander's screw-ups must be held against him for a long time) and Willow was ready to start all over again in case Oz walked in through her door? Or that it was Xander who got punished for the crime Oz had commited? Okay, I know Giles and Buffy were hit by that spell too but I don't care much about any of them, you know.

Why couldn't Willow use her spell in a better way? Like: "That whorish Anya chick, I don't like her. Why does she constantly hang around my Xander? Perhaps she could socialize with someone of her kind in some hell dimension"?

Edited March 19, 2019 by lembergwatcher

[Halting Hex]

3 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Looks like someone's missing lots of wolfie hair in the nostrils, on her lips and face.

Reasonably sure that Willow never canoodled with Oz while he was all wolfy.  As evident from her not ending up the same way.  (Or making Oz "oddly full", as O'Toole did.)

3 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Or that it was Xander who got punished for the crime Oz had commited?

No, he was "punished" for his conspicuous lack of interest in her emotions.  And his preferring to hang out with his Demon-of-the-Month.  If he didn't want to be called a "demon magnet", then he shouldn't have made out with multiple demons.  At least Oz had the excuse that Veruca was one of his kind.

3 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Why couldn't Willow use her spell in a better way? Like: "That whorish Anya chick, I don't like her. Why does she constantly hang around my Xander? Perhaps she could socialize with someone of her kind in some hell dimension"?

I think Willow's healing her broken heart ranks a few priorities above her relocating Anya someplace more appropriate.  

"Well, I have a choice.  I can wait for Xander to go out with every other girl in the world…or I can get on with my life."  She made the right decision two years ago, and there's no need for her to undo it.  If Xander's ready for a real relationship, he knows where to find her.

Now, how the hell Buffy decided that taunting Spike was oh-so-much-more-important, that's a stumper, I admit.

[lembergwatcher]

9 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

No, he was "punished" for his conspicuous lack of interest in her emotions.  And his preferring to hang out with his Demon-of-the-Month.

So did the punishment help? According to that logic Xander had a legitimate reason to, say, get drunk and try to open the Hellmouth at the library after Willow chose Oz and Cordy made it clear there'd be no reconciliation between her and Xander in the previous season. I guess the Zeppo was in emotional distress of some sort too back then but nobody gave a damn about his emotions.

I just don't understand why Willow hanging out with her not-so-human boyfriend is called "getting on with her life", but Xander is treated like a terrible traitor for doing exactly the same thing?

9 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

If he didn't want to be called a "demon magnet", then he shouldn't have made out with multiple demons.

Last time I checked Cordelia Chase wasn't a demon 😉. At least back than. And if by "multiple" demons you mean She-Mantis and Inca Mummy Girl... Well, we can blame Xander for a lot of things, but simple unawarness of his "girlfriends" true nature is hardly one of them. Because Xander is by no means a demonologist and even Buffy didn't find out the truth about Angel immediately despite all her slayer senses and other supernatural stuff that came with the package.

Edited March 20, 2019 by lembergwatcher

[lembergwatcher]

Speaking of the "demon magnet" cliche.

Somehow I feel Xander is not the only one with that issue. Before we blame the guy for his bad taste in women one more time why not talk about Thomas or Malcolm-Moloch since those two were the demons just like She-Mantis, Inca Mummy Girl or Anya. Angel felt obvious sexual arousal while holding Willow's throat in Innocence (he could have gone after anyone Buffy holds dear: Joyce, Giles, Cordy, he could have grabbed Xander, after all, but chose the redhead). Then Drunk!Spike showed some interest in Willow while bitching about Dru in Lovers Walk. And let us not forget that several hours after Willow blurted out about "demon magnet" she was nearly recruited by D'Hoffryn himself to join his demonic army/harem/agency.

Xander: Nathallie, Inca Mummy, Anya.

Willow: Thomas, Moloch, Angel, Spike, D'Hoffryn.

That's 5:3 for Willow, whether we like it or not. Or draw if we exclude Spike & Angel. Which only proves Willow too is a "demon magnet" of some sort - just like her childhood friend.

And if someone's dating history can be used against one particular character, why not apply the same principles dealing with another particular character? Like calling that character a "Loser Magnet" or a "Crappy Guitarist Magnet". Or an "Asshole Magnet".

Spoiler

Or "Incompetent Wicca/Power-Hungry Slayer Magnet". There's Kennedy and there's Buffy who, as we know, have an essence of pure demon in them due to the whole slayer mojo thing.
And let us not forget about Anya:

So who's the real demon magnet, after all?

Sure Xander can show much more interest in Willow's situation and her emotions, and act a little less OOC, and be a better friend, and spend more time with the redhead. But the writers decided otherwise

Spoiler

since such turn of events will obviously make it more difficult to bring Willow and Tara together and will render a considerable part of New Moon Rising/The Yoko Factor storyline useless.

Edited March 20, 2019 by lembergwatcher

[Halting Hex]

6 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

So did the punishment help?

"Punishment" was your word; that's why I used the quotation marks when discussing it.

6 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

I just don't understand why Willow hanging out with her not-so-human boyfriend is called "getting on with her life", but Xander is treated like a terrible traitor for doing exactly the same thing?

First of all, when Willow was considering whether to move on with her life, she hadn't even met Oz.  Who was months away from going wolfy, for that matter.  Secondly, who's treating Xander like a "traitor", exactly?  Willow's spell is subconscious, and she's not upset with Xander for dating Anya, she's upset that he's ignoring her feelings.

Quote

WILLOW:  I think we're all doomed to badness.

XANDER:  We're not doomed.

She's directly quoting his own assessment, from the tag of I Robot, You Jane.  But instead of using that as a bonding moment, as before ("Hey, I called that back in 10th grade.  But at least we'll be doomed together, right?"), he gets defensive and makes her feel excluded, as if there was something specifically wrong with her and Oz while Xander is still banging his (ex-)demon around the basement so hard, his mom probably thinks they need to fix the washing machine because of all the noise it keeps making.  (And she isn't even doing laundry!)  So when she mentions Mantis!Natalie, she's citing the example he already used to illustrate his bad luck, almost 3 years ago, and the rest of his pattern just follows from there.

And yes, she does leave Cordelia out of it.  Which is rather nice of Will, given her history with CC.  But JMO.

5 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Willow: Thomas, Moloch, Angel, Spike, D'Hoffryn.

I give you the first two.  Angel was only taunting Buffy, Spike was drunk and bitter and not caring who he "had" (he'd just finished raping the shopkeeper's corpse, after all) and we're not going to blame Willow for things that haven't actually happened yet, are we? 

Spoiler

She's not "the One Who Sees", after all.  And if we're going series-long, let's not omit Dracula [specified as sexual in the comics], Dawn (not a demon, but not human, either; interesting whom the Monks programmed in a crush on for Green Energy Girl, isn't it?) and Ashanti from Xander's half of the ledger, then.

Besides, Xander made the choice to have a relationship with Anya knowing what she'd been for 1100 years.  That's a little different from being a bar-pickup for Debarge!Vamp, I'd say.  (And besides, Willow thought she was getting ice cream!  If anyone could understand that as a mitigating factor, it should be Xander, no?)

[lembergwatcher]

3 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

But instead of using that as a bonding moment, as before ("Hey, I called that back in 10th grade.  But at least we'll be doomed together, right?"), he gets defensive and makes her feel excluded, as if there was something specifically wrong with her and Oz

What if he wasn't in the mood for bonding after Willow's cheap shot at The Bronze? Very cheap shot, I'd say. Though he still tried to talk Willow out of her misery, but, hey, not all of us are good with words like Giles or Buffy.

3 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

she's upset that he's ignoring her feelings

Like I said many times before: sometimes people ignore other people's feelings because nobody cares about theirs in the first place. One might argue that making snidy comments about Xander's home life ("Hey, I'm a college freshman, I'm cool and you're stuck in the stinky basement of your parents home, loser") or dating history is the best way of provoking him to pay attention to all the things Willow-related, but that's a questionable assumption, I must say.

3 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

she's citing the example he already used to illustrate his bad luck, almost 3 years ago, and the rest of his pattern just follows from there

Well, could be this or the fact that he made a fatal mistake returning to Sunnyhell - the place where no one was waiting for him and most people expected him to lose (and I tend to believe in the latter).

3 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Besides, Xander made the choice to have a relationship with Anya knowing what she'd been for 1100 years. 

To quote Xander himself from The Prom "choice is kind of a broad term for my situation". We can talk about the real choice here if there were some others for Xander to choose from. Unfortunately that was not the case at the moment. Either Anya or the sock puppet of love for this boy, you know. I agree, he made a bad choice, but probably it would've been someone else in case there was an alternative back then.

Besides, Anya showed some interest in our townie boy (who was largely ignored and left behind for a considerable part of a previous season). Maybe, not in his personality, exactly, but still... While two other girls appeared to be so way ahead of him, consumed with college and their own complicated lives, they didn't always have time to notice some things about character X from their UC Sunnydale-shaped "ivory tower" (not that I blame them, after all).

Edited March 20, 2019 by lembergwatcher

[Halting Hex]

10 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

One might argue that making snidy comments about Xander's home life ("Hey, I'm a college freshman, I'm cool and you're stuck in the stinky basement of your parents home, loser")

Hey, now!  It was Buffy who was dismissive of him ("Don't non-college guys usually populate the non-campus?") whereas Willow was willing to be "tanked and friendless" so that Xander could practice his "empathy face".  And this despite the fact that Xander specifically asked Buffy, not her, to "be a lonely drunk"…and even did it right in front of Willow's face.   Sigh.  Tenth grade never ends, does it?

(Okay, she had a boyfriend then, and Buffy was post-Poophead single. But still.  Being second choice for friend support still hurts.  And it has to be a bit painful when Support-o-Gal is your long suit.)

Willow didn't mock Xander for his sufferings in the Basement of Debasement, she groused that what he was going through didn't compare to being thrown over for the Hairy-Backed PsycHO and then getting told, explicitly, that you don't get say in your relationship.   So yeah, " 'Oh, I live in a basement'.  That's dire" wasn't loaded with kindness, but she wasn't mocking his townie life, she was saying that of the two of them, he's actually doing significantly better, whereas she's pretty much drowning.  It feels as though she's been split in two and half of her is gone, you know.  Having your mom push Fruit Roll-Ups on your girlfriend doesn't seem quite the same, from Willow's p.o.v.

(Which is of course, wrong; there are different degrees of hurt.  But he shouldn't be surprised she's not in such a great mood to listen, I wouldn't say.)

[lembergwatcher]

6 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Willow didn't mock Xander for his sufferings in the Basement of Debasement, she groused that what he was going through didn't compare to being thrown over for the Hairy-Backed PsycHO and then getting told, explicitly, that you don't get say in your relationship.

That's what we know. Doesn't mean Xander sees it exactly the same way. And even though Willow is right generally speaking, Xander has a reason to be a little bit resentful, 'cause people don't always think/act rationally when they feel someone hits their soft spot. Especially people Xander's age. Yes, his friendship with Willow isn't in the best shape at this point, but, hey, nobody's perfect. I'd be enormously happy if Xander told his hellbitch to back off and showed more interest in Willow's emotional state, but the writers decided everyone wanted White Knight to be clueless asshole & bad friend... Sigh.

OTOH if I don't wanna be thrown over for the Hairy-Backed PsycHO, I don't date deceivingly cool-looking Hairy-Backed types in the first place, do I? Anya may be ex-demon and one helluva example of a slut, but she hardly turns into mindless animal ready to tear her significant other apart if given the opportunity every three nights out of a month.

Btw, always wanted to know how long did it take for Willow or Buffy to finally fill Xander in the whole Veruca affair (the part about Oz cheating and Veruca nearly killing Willow)? I bet he was the very last to know as usual. Just like in Bangel's case earlier

Spoiler

and Tara's later.

I don't want to sound like Xander's defense attorney once again, but what if his attitude is due to him feeling somewhat excluded and left behind by his two best friends who seem to do just fine in their post-high school Xander-free zone (alright, Willow obviously doesn't, but sometimes you can't see everything that well while stuck in the basement)? No wonder he's not so willing to leave his hellbitch-shaped "comfort zone" even for his best friends.

I guess Willow and Xander need to have a long one-on-one conversation after this ep's events. And Giles' stupid car can wait.

[Halting Hex]

1 hour ago, lembergwatcher said:

OTOH if I don't wanna be thrown over for the Hairy-Backed PsycHO, I don't date deceivingly cool-looking Hairy-Backed types in the first place, do I?

Willow and Oz dated before he was Hairy, though.  She made the choice not to dump him, I realize, but I can see that she thought it might have been harsh to do so.

1 hour ago, lembergwatcher said:

Btw, always wanted to know how long did it take for Willow or Buffy to finally fill Xander in the whole Veruca affair (the part about Oz cheating and Veruca nearly killing Willow)? I bet he was the very last to know as usual. Just like in Bangel's case earlier

OTOH,

Spoiler

he knows more about Spuffy than Willow ever learns.  There's no indication she was ever told about the rape attempt, for example…which is kind of shitty, given that Buffy eventually moves Spike into the home where Willow is living.  Perhaps Xander might have clued Willow in, somewhere during that year?  Just a thought.  (Giles and Anya are likewise quite possibly left out of that loop.)

1 hour ago, lembergwatcher said:

Giles' stupid car can wait.

Yeah, I'm not too thrilled with Will getting Citroen duty, either.  Especially as:

Quote

GILES: Willow. I know you're going through a very difficult time. But shirking your responsibilities...

"Responsibilities", Rupert?  Gee, I hadn't realized that witchcraft was Willow's Sacred Duty.  Here I thought Slayerette status was strictly voluntary.  Silly me.

I guess I missed the episode where Willow was hired by the Watcher's Council.  I grant you they might have an opening, with Giles having gotten the sack, but it still seems unlikely.  Especially if the dental plan is still crap.

[Halting Hex]

So I was thinking ahead of Liam Duke here, and recalling that Buffy spends much of this episode enspelled and in Bridezilla mode.  Which, when juxtaposed with her Domestic Goddess obsession last episode, makes back-to-back eps where our Slayer has been less than Bufftastic.  

And this is the season where we've already had the "Buffy is bitchy because Kathy is stealing her soul" and the "Buffy drank the cursed beer and went all 1,000,000 Years B.C.  Sadly without the furry bikini" episodes.  That makes a mere five out of nine episodes so far where we've been able to see Buffy doing what she does best. 

Spoiler

No, not getting thrown through the ceiling.  That's her fiancé's future forte, not hers.

That's a little less Buffy than I like in my Buffy.  Maybe they should have saved this plot for later in the season? 

Spoiler

Yes, Willow won't be missing doggie-style quite so much once she discovers Wicca Wub, but even so.

Also, I was just saying that I Will Remember You makes it difficult to sell the developing Buffy/Riley 'ship:

Quote

So I'm watching Shan's reaction vid here (and wow, is she not feeling Riley's cringeworthy "driving" talk, given that she just got another taste of her beloved Bangel in I Will Remember You…and she's typical of a lot of the audience.  Poor planning, Joss)

…do we really need to compound the "he's nice, but he's not Angel" issue for the audience by having Buffy be all swoony over another vampire, right away?  I mean, I get that the Spuffy 'shippers were becoming obnoxious, but there must have been a better means of "defanging" this issue than having Buffy getting virtually vamp-sandwiched in these two weeks.  Maybe wait until Buffy and Riley take a few steps (assuming they eventually do) and then parody a Spike "romance" for contrast, rather than having Riley be ignored while Buffy runs off to cozy up to one vampire and then oozes all over a second, consecutively?  Again, it seems Joss/Tracey are telling a story that doesn't need to be told right now, IMO.

Also, not to digress to the other series, but didn't Angel just get through sacrificing his humanity and wiping Buffy's memories because he'd rather have his superpowers than make Buffy happy he needs his powers so that he can protect Buffy? (Several seasons' worth of episodes showing that Buffy can do just fine on her own, including protecting herself against you, jerk, aside.)  Well, then…where is Angel?  I mean, if you're going to protect Buffy, get your Forehead out of L.A. and protect her, ffs.  Being two hours down the freeway isn't exactly keeping a tight watch over her.

Even if it does leave you closer to Neiman-Marcus.  And all those shoes…

[lembergwatcher]

How come Willow's "My Will Be Done" spell has an immediate effect on everyone except for Xander? Be it Giles' sight, Amy becoming human, Buffy catching Spike and then "marrying" him - everything happens immediately after my favorite Wicca expresses her will. But when it comes to Xander some time passes between Willow's words and the demonic attack on Xander and Anya (Willow leaving the basement of debasement - Anya coming - Xander and Anya making out). Aren't the demons supposed to attack the moment Willow calls her friend a "demon magnet"? So what's the deal?

[illdoc]

6 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Aren't the demons supposed to attack the moment Willow calls her friend a "demon magnet"? So what's the deal?

Well, maybe there weren't any demons close by and it took some time for them to head to Xander's house?

[lembergwatcher]

3 hours ago, illdoc said:

Well, maybe there weren't any demons close by and it took some time for them to head to Xander's house?

Or the demons were waiting for Willow to leave and Anya to come?..

[Joe Hellandback]

On 1/20/2020 at 8:45 PM, illdoc said:

Well, maybe there weren't any demons close by and it took some time for them to head to Xander's house?

That's what I always figured

[lembergwatcher]

On 1/22/2020 at 1:45 PM, Joe Hellandback said:

That's what I always figured

Buffy and Spike weren't at close proximity either and yet... And we're talking about MAGIC here. The actual distance between particular demons and Xander's basement shouldn't have been an issue for a proficient witch like Willow.

Edited January 23, 2020 by lembergwatcher

[Halting Hex]

Remember that Buffy finding Spike "in two seconds" was an actual (unknowing) spell by Willow; the time-compression was baked in.  In contrast, Willow didn't say anything about how soon the demons were supposed to show up at Xander's place. 

And since Willow does specify Anya as part of Xander's demonic history, should we count her appearance at De Basement of Debasement as part of the Will(ow)-Be-Done spell going into effect, before every random demon followed in her footsteps?  Yes, Anya is currently not a demon, but she was specifically named in the (unwitting) invocation ("Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Anya") so we can assume a certain power in that, I'd guess.  If "Natalie French" and "Ampata" hadn't been far too deceased to be affected by the spell, I'd guess they might have made it to Xander's before the "drown it in the sink" Demon did, as well.  But JMO.

[Joe Hellandback]

11 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Buffy and Spike weren't at close proxinity either and yet... And we're talking about MAGIC here. The actual distance between particular demons and Xander's basement shouldn't have been an issue for a proficient witch like Willow.

Depends on the nature of her will?

[lembergwatcher]

On 1/23/2020 at 8:57 AM, Halting Hex said:

Remember that Buffy finding Spike "in two seconds" was an actual (unknowing) spell by Willow; the time-compression was baked in.  In contrast, Willow didn't say anything about how soon the demons were supposed to show up at Xander's place.

Still would've been much more fun if Anya and the demons entered the Basement of Debasement while Miss Rosenberg was still there.

[Halting Hex]

So the Cult TV Sofa guy did this one, and when Xanya show up at Giles's place, he's wondering why Spike isn't attracted to Demon Magnet!Xander, as Spike is certainly a demon.  Heh, that would be hilarious;  Buffy all mushy-eyed over Spike and meantime Spike's cooing over Xander.

(And it's not as if Spike could claim he's too purely heterosexual to be affected, given his history with Angel.)

Also, at the end, when Willow puts the cookie in Spike's mouth because Spike is tied to the chair, Spike takes it out, with his hand.  So why didn't Willow just hand him the cookie, then?  Not to mention that tying Spike to a wooden chair won't work so well if Spike's hands are free, as Spike can surely snap rope or that kind of chair.  Is the rope just for show, Giles?  Or are you still blind?

[lembergwatcher]

7 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Is the rope just for show, Giles?  Or are you still blind?

I guess it's either heavy drug use in the writing room or/and total neglect for details.

Seems like Joss & the gang stopped caring for such stuff after Scoobies have graduated or they consider logic in the storytelling to be some old-fashioned outdated bourgeois relic of the past...  

[mmecorday]

As many times as I've seen this one, Giles saying "Stop that! I can still hear the smacking!" and Buffy sputtering "Spike lips! Lips of Spike!" are two lines that will always crack me up.