S03.E06: Band Candy

[Joe Hellandback]

Band Candy

The Good; The more Joyce in an episode the better it is. She and Ripper and all the adults are just hilarious. Also lovely to see Ethan Rayne (I always figured that if Giles was to die he would reform and become Buffy's new Watcher). Love to have seen Buffy's dream but that would be probably beyond the SFX department. Altogether fabulous.

The Bad; Lurconis looks a bit lame but certainly better than the preying mantis. It rather spoils the surprise of Ethan Rayne being the villain when Robin Sach's name is in the opening titles

Best line; Buffy (as Joyce produces the cuffs) "Never tell me!"

Shot; Giles threatened with a gun and uses it on Ethan but no shots fired

Tied up; Ethan and possibly Joyce or Giles in handcuffs

Knocked out; for once Giles stays conscious but knocks out a policeman

Kinky dinky; see Tied Up. Personally I always thought that Joyce and Giles

Spoiler

had had sex on the hood of the police car but maybe that's just me?

Calling Captain Subtext; "Wanna swap?" What a shame we never got to see an Oz/Cordy relationship (not even in any fanfic I've ever read) I mean Cordy has dated plenty of guys in bands before? Also when Xander says he wants to marry Miss Barton (always had a thing for older women) Cordy replies "Get in line!"

Guantanamo Bay; Buffy beats up Ethan for information

Questions and observations; Joyce and Giles drink that awful Khalua stuff (or however you spell it) Could Joyce be the slutty pumpkin? (a prize to whoever can recognise THAT reference!). Whoa Summers you drive like a s***! Nice to see that Buffy isn't necessarily good at everything, always annoyed me about Xena that she was brilliant at everything even if she was a demi-god (except cooking and music but Joxer and Gabby could each do both for her). Ethan obviously has a few reservations about what he's doing to judge by his expression when Trick kills the worker. Joyce like's 70s singer Juice Newton who's big hit was interestingly "Angel of the morning". Whenever I see a green 4x4 nowadays I always think 'the Geek machine' or 'The Joyce mobile'. You do feel pity for teenage Snyder, he apparently did Tae Kwan Do which is SMG's martial art. What happens to Ethan? They tie him up but then what? You can kill vamps with a pencil? Their skin must be a lot softer than human.

Buffy refers to the 'Real World House' another modern reference she wouldn't know if she was really a mad girl in an asylum. According to the Sunnydale High Yearbook the Band Candy raised $600,000 for the band. Lovely to see Joyce and Giles take centre stage for once

Spoiler

What does Dawn do as Joyce revisits her youth? Away at Girl Scouts?

Xander and Willow, awwww. Buffy drives without insurance or a licence. But she spends her life walking around with offensive weapons so breaking the law should come naturally to her. No Faith this week, she's not even mentioned. Love the Mayor/Trick scene at the end, once again Harry Groener is subtly threatening (not what he says, how he says it) whilst Todd Freeman gives a great performance, trying to be cool and offhand but obviously scared witless. Love the reference to Death of a Salesman.

Need you ask? 10/10

[CletusMusashi]

But.. why would anyone want to kiss rocks? Oh. Wait. I get it.

[Halting Hex]

I don't like Joyce.  I don't like Snyder.  I don't like having to watch Joyce/Snyder scenes; I didn't like it in School Hard, and I didn't like it in Faith, Hope and Trick.  And there the characters were actually acting like themselves, not some wacky "teen" version.

I don't like Sitcom Jane Espenson deciding that adults acting like "teens" means they start acting like some 1950s fear-of-youth caricatures.  Drag racing?  Seriously?  As Willow says, "I don't act like that."  In fact, week after week, we follow the adventures of five teenagers, none of whom strip half-naked and stage-dive off the Bronze.  

Spoiler

But Espenson never develops any empathy for the teen perspective or sense of realism about it, as seen as late as that vomitous first act in Storyteller, where a student's head explodes (due to increased Hellmouth activity) and Buffy makes a fucking joke about it.  She writes some good episodes about twenty-somethings in S5, but she's useless here.

I don't like an episode that thinks that Giles acting like a goofball is such a wonderful idea that they completely forget that The Dark Age specified he wasn't into black magic until he turned 21.  "Giles at 16" should be a ball of repression, not this laughable "Ripper".  Who bears no resemblance to the chillingly dangerous Ripper we've seen in Halloween and Passion and Dead Man's Party, and is instead some dad-bod guy running around in his undershirt.  Not in the slightest bit "hot".

Much as I dislike Joyce, I can also remember that she wasn't a ditzy slut as a teen, she was a stiff who "had a lot of fun on yearbook", per Witch.  It wasn't until she got to college that she started connivingly stealing Hank away from his date to the dance, as referred to in Prophecy Girl.  So the episode gets "Joycie" just as wrong as it gets "Ripper".   

(And if Giles really does have a 16-year-old's hormonal urges, why is he chasing this old bag, anyhow?  Plenty of actually-hot actual 16 year-olds hanging around for him to sniff after [I remember reading a "Ripper"/Cordelia porn fic, for example] instead of wasting his freshly-revived libido on this Juice Newton wannabe.)

I don't like wasting Ethan Rayne on a plot that makes exactly zero sense.  The bad guys set up this complicated attention-drawing scheme so that they can steal a whopping four babies from the nursery?  Sheesh.

I like Cordelia having layers.  I like Buffy's nightmare about the incorrectly-filled-in answer bubble, and Willow's wondering if it's a prophecy dream.  And Willow and Xander's anklesex in study hall is the single hottest romantic scene in the entire history of the series.

But I don't like this episode.  In fact, it may be IMO the most horribly-overrated ep of the entire series.

Spoiler

Certainly it's the most overrated that isn't a late-season Joss-written/directed Emmy™-begging stunt ep, such as Joyce Is Dead, People Are Sad, Boo-Hoo-Hoo (SNORE!!) or That Stupid Musical Episode or The Finale That Dare Not Speak Its Name.  Those episodes were "events" that fell well short of the hype. 

This is just straight-up cringeworthy incompetence.   An easy skip.  Blech.

Edited July 4, 2018 by Halting Hex

[Fool to cry]

I enjoyed the episode when it first aired and I still do. I think the candy not only made them act like teenagers but more reckless than when they were actually young because the point was to have them completely forget about responsibilities and worrying about consequences.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎03‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 6:10 AM, CletusMusashi said:

But.. why would anyone want to kiss rocks? Oh. Wait. I get it.

But only after watching 'That 70s Show'?

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎03‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 10:44 PM, Halting Hex said:

I don't like Joyce.  I don't like Snyder.  I don't like having to watch Joyce/Snyder scenes; I didn't like it in School Hard, and I didn't like it in Faith, Hope and Trick.  And there the characters were actually acting like themselves, not some wacky "teen" version.

I don't like Sitcom Jane Espenson deciding that adults acting like "teens" means they start acting like some 1950s fear-of-youth caricatures.  Drag racing?  Seriously?  As Willow says, "I don't act like that."  In fact, week after week, we follow the adventures of five teenagers, none of whom strip half-naked and stage-dive off the Bronze.  

  Reveal hidden contents

But Espenson never develops any empathy for the teen perspective or sense of realism about it, as seen as late as that vomitous first act in Storyteller, where a student's head explodes (due to increased Hellmouth activity) and Buffy makes a fucking joke about it.  She writes some good episodes about twenty-somethings in S5, but she's useless here.

I don't like an episode that thinks that Giles acting like a goofball is such a wonderful idea that they completely forget that The Dark Age specified he wasn't into black magic until he turned 21.  "Giles at 16" should be a ball of repression, not this laughable "Ripper".  Who bears no resemblance to the chillingly dangerous Ripper we've seen in Halloween and Passion and Dead Man's Party, and is instead some dad-bod guy running around in his undershirt.  Not in the slightest bit "hot".

Much as I dislike Joyce, I can also remember that she wasn't a ditzy slut as a teen, she was a stiff who "had a lot of fun on yearbook", per Witch.  It wasn't until she got to college that she started connivingly stealing Hank away from his date to the dance, as referred to in Prophecy Girl.  So the episode gets "Joycie" just as wrong as it gets "Ripper".   

(And if Giles really does have a 16-year-old's hormonal urges, why is he chasing this old bag, anyhow?  Plenty of actually-hot actual 16 year-olds hanging around for him to sniff after [I remember reading a "Ripper"/Cordelia porn fic, for example] instead of wasting his freshly-revived libido on this Juice Newton wannabe.)

I don't like wasting Ethan Rayne on a plot that makes exactly zero sense.  The bad guys set up this complicated attention-drawing scheme so that they can steal a whopping four babies from the nursery?  Sheesh.

I like Cordelia having layers.  I like Buffy's nightmare about the incorrectly-filled-in answer bubble, and Willow's wondering if it's a prophecy dream.  And Willow and Xander's anklesex in study hall is the single hottest romantic scene in the entire history of the series.

But I don't like this episode.  In fact, it may be IMO the most horribly-overrated ep of the entire series.

  Hide contents

Certainly it's the most overrated that isn't a late-season Joss-written/directed Emmy™-begging stunt ep, such as Joyce Is Dead, People Are Sad, Boo-Hoo-Hoo (SNORE!!) or That Stupid Musical Episode or The Finale That Dare Not Speak Its Name.  Those episodes were "events" that fell well short of the hype. 

This is just straight-up cringeworthy incompetence.   An easy skip.  Blech.

 

You don't like Joyce? For shame! FOR SHAME! Joyce is the best TV mum EVER!

I think we should take it that the magic chocolate makes people act in an EXAGGERATED juvenile fashion. As for Ripper it's not age specific but I think burgling a store for his girl and knocking out a cop and stealing his gun is pretty badass! Not to mention exhibitionist handcuff sex on the hood of a police car? Also we only have Joyce's word for her high-school years, in actuality less yearbook nerd than can of Deep Heat (a muscle ointment frequently 'passed around the locker room'). Not to mention the traditional Summer's denial. Plus Kristine Sutherland is a GORGEOUS Milf, I've met her and she's just as lovely in the flesh. As for Cuffy, I like the idea but the network would have a fit. But then that's what fanfic is for, the stuff they never actually show on TV. 

Ethan is always great no matter what he's in, I was gutted when they

Spoiler

killed him off in the comics, especially as Robin Sachs would himself die soon afterwards. 

I always took it that the idea was people would blame themselves rather than the Mayor? Yeah, Willow and Xander footsie always makes me go Awwwww! As for the rest, we'll talk when we get there.  

On ‎04‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 10:02 AM, nosleepforme said:

Well, as we seen before in season two when he was first introduced and began noticing Willow, Oz is not really interested in the obvious bombshell women. It would be wildly out of character for him to hook up with Cordelia.

 

I am not a big fan of this episode either - and I love Joyce. I love to hate Snyder. But I think all the teenage thing was a bit much.

Yeah, Oz is always the bohemian unconventionalist. He saw the sexiness of Willow long before the rest of us did (took me until BBB). A bit much? A bit much GENIUS!  

8 hours ago, Fool to cry said:

I enjoyed the episode when it first aired and I still do. I think the candy not only made them act like teenagers but more reckless than when they were actually young because the point was to have them completely forget about responsibilities and worrying about consequences.

Absolutely, agree 100%, couldn't have put it better myself. 

Next up; Revelations. 

Edited July 5, 2018 by Joe Hellandback

[Halting Hex]

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

we only have Joyce's word for her high-school years

Yes, but given that she's citing her time on yearbook not to deny any supposed wilder activities, but as a model for Buffy to follow, and that she gets offended when Buffy sneers at the idea ("Have you seen the kids who work on yearbook?  Nerds pick on them."), I doubt it's just a cover story for Joyce's days as "mass transportation" or any such thing.

[CletusMusashi]

Still waters run deep. Quiet nerdy girls often fall very hard for bad boys. In which case the main differences between Actual Teenaged Joyce and Magical Faux Teenaged Joyce are simply that

a. She has a bad boy giving her the opportunity to run around getting in trouble, and

b. She may not have her adult emotions (or, in fact, apparently the full range of adolescent emotions,) but she does have her adult memories. So she's not worried, for example, about losing her virginity or getting in trouble with her parents.

Edited July 6, 2018 by CletusMusashi

[Joe Hellandback]

23 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Yes, but given that she's citing her time on yearbook not to deny any supposed wilder activities, but as a model for Buffy to follow, and that she gets offended when Buffy sneers at the idea ("Have you seen the kids who work on yearbook?  Nerds pick on them."), I doubt it's just a cover story for Joyce's days as "mass transportation" or any such thing.

I like the idea, like mother like daughters, all with their own secret lives and the hidden hotness. 

1 hour ago, CletusMusashi said:

Still waters run deep. Quiet nerdy girls often fall very hard for bad boys. In which case the main differences between Actual Teenaged Joyce and Magical Faux Teenaged Joyce are simply that

a. She has a bad boy giving her the opportunity to run around getting in trouble, and

b. She may not have her adult emotions (or, in fact, apparently the full range of adolescent emotions,) but she does have her adult memories. So she's not worried, for example, about losing her virginity or getting in trouble with her parents.

 

And vice versa, remember how Oz will end up

Spoiler

with Verrucca? 

And yes, all the Summer's girls seem to have a thing for bad boys, especially vampires. 

Edited July 6, 2018 by Joe Hellandback

[Dev F]

On 7/5/2018 at 2:22 AM, Fool to cry said:

I enjoyed the episode when it first aired and I still do. I think the candy not only made them act like teenagers but more reckless than when they were actually young because the point was to have them completely forget about responsibilities and worrying about consequences.

But if the spell is making them act like exaggerated stereotype versions of teenagers, what's the point? Isn't what makes it interesting the idea that the kids are seeing what the adults were really like when they were young? The episode would have been so much better if it had actually made some effort to extrapolate plausible versions of young Joyce and young Giles, instead of turning them into generic teen rebels. (That's why I actually think Snyder has the most interesting youth persona, since it actually reveals something about this humorless authoritarian that he was once a pathetic dweeb desperate for somewhere to fit in.)

Also, the episode completely misunderstands Giles's Ripper backstory as established in "The Dark Age":

"I was twenty-one. Studying history at Oxford. And, of course, the occult by night. I hated it. The tedious grind of study, the overwhelming pressure of my destiny. I dropped out. Went to London. Fell in with the worst crowd that would have me. We practised magics. Small stuff, for pleasure or gain. Then Ethan and I discovered something . . ."

The original idea wasn't that he was a juvenile delinquent running wild on the streets; it was that he was so straitlaced that once he got to college he cracked under the strain and began using his occult knowledge in immoral ways.

[Fool to cry]

15 minutes ago, Dev F said:

But if the spell is making them act like exaggerated stereotype versions of teenagers, what's the point? Isn't what makes it interesting the idea that the kids are seeing what the adults were really like when they were young?

The point in the story was to have all the adults distracted so the Mayor can steal newborn babies to sacrifice.

[Joe Hellandback]

16 hours ago, Dev F said:

But if the spell is making them act like exaggerated stereotype versions of teenagers, what's the point? Isn't what makes it interesting the idea that the kids are seeing what the adults were really like when they were young? The episode would have been so much better if it had actually made some effort to extrapolate plausible versions of young Joyce and young Giles, instead of turning them into generic teen rebels. (That's why I actually think Snyder has the most interesting youth persona, since it actually reveals something about this humorless authoritarian that he was once a pathetic dweeb desperate for somewhere to fit in.)

Also, the episode completely misunderstands Giles's Ripper backstory as established in "The Dark Age":

"I was twenty-one. Studying history at Oxford. And, of course, the occult by night. I hated it. The tedious grind of study, the overwhelming pressure of my destiny. I dropped out. Went to London. Fell in with the worst crowd that would have me. We practised magics. Small stuff, for pleasure or gain. Then Ethan and I discovered something . . ."

The original idea wasn't that he was a juvenile delinquent running wild on the streets; it was that he was so straitlaced that once he got to college he cracked under the strain and began using his occult knowledge in immoral ways.

But Ripper and Joyce aren't so different to the teen Scoobs, theft, drunkeness, promiscuity, knocking out a cop, smoking, all of them do it at some time or another.  

15 hours ago, Fool to cry said:

The point in the story was to have all the adults distracted so the Mayor can steal newborn babies to sacrifice.

That's the plot but once more the analogy is wishing your parents would be more hip but then being appalled when they are. 

Just posted, The Wish

Edited July 7, 2018 by Joe Hellandback

[Halting Hex]

Aside from everything else, I think that Joyce is a shit parent for making Buffy pay for the damage to the car.  I mean, Buffy was only driving because Joyce got "drunk" essentially, and the accident was in no way Buffy's fault.  A little more concern about your daughter getting T-Boned (often the most-likely-fatal collision) and a little less devotion to finding One More Thing To Blame Buffy For and I might sympathize with your wish to cover up your sexcapades.  

But as it is, you're a bitch, Joycie.

[Joe Hellandback]

13 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Aside from everything else, I think that Joyce is a shit parent for making Buffy pay for the damage to the car.  I mean, Buffy was only driving because Joyce got "drunk" essentially, and the accident was in no way Buffy's fault.  A little more concern about your daughter getting T-Boned (often the most-likely-fatal collision) and a little less devotion to finding One More Thing To Blame Buffy For and I might sympathize with your wish to cover up your sexcapades.  

But as it is, you're a bitch, Joycie.

I think the whole idea was a return to adult responsibility and punishing her for her lie. Buffy is obviously all right (and it would take a tank to injure someone driving the Geek mobile) and remember she tells Joyce that she caused the dent.

 Joyce is the best TV mum ever and I will not hear her disparaged.  

[Halting Hex]

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

remember [Buffy] tells Joyce that she caused the dent.

Ah, I forgot that.  

Darn, Buff.  You don't have to be The Little Martyr all the time.  How do you "cause" getting T-boned, exactly? If Buffy had driven illegally into the intersection, then the other car would have had time to at least try to swerve, and probably caught the fender, rather than smack against the side.  What happened here was clearly the other car not caring.  Sigh.

[lembergwatcher]

On 04.07.2018 at 12:44 AM, Halting Hex said:

(And if Giles really does have a 16-year-old's hormonal urges, why is he chasing this old bag, anyhow?  Plenty of actually-hot actual 16 year-olds hanging around for him to sniff after [I remember reading a "Ripper"/Cordelia porn fic, for example] instead of wasting his freshly-revived libido on this Juice Newton wannabe.)

But the thing is we do not see plenty of those 16-year-olds running around that night. Cordelia or Willow are unreachable (their paths haven't crossed, as far as I remember) and Buffy can kick his old bony ass. In fact I can't recall any other actual teenagers in the picture for the whole climax of an episode. Apart from Scoobies and Oz's band not many of them seem to live in town that moment. The Bronze is full of adults, lots of others roaming the city streets with nothing much else to do. Where are the kids anyway? Doing homework or cooking? Because it seems like they vanished or were kidnapped by aliens (for one night). Maybe I miss something, but such is my overall impression.

And Joyce is not that old.

 

Her dates are 1958 - 2001 according to

The Weight of the World ep

. 

Btw, always wondered why wasn't Giles arrested the next morning for assaulting the police officer? Sunnydale PD can't draw the sketch of the assailant? Or they don't consider such kind of activity a criminal offense? Same with Buffy actually. Murder charges dropped, but two counts of attacking the law enforcement officer in Becoming, Part 2 and no consequences at all... No fine or community servise?..

Edited August 21, 2018 by lembergwatcher

[Halting Hex]

I can only assume that Giles not only worked assiduously to get the murder charges dropped against Buffy (in absentia!) between S2 and S3, but that he also had the little stuff such as "assaulting an officer" and "escaping from custody" tossed as well.  No wonder he's too tired to go patrolling with the gang in Anne.

Yes, Giles and Joyce are contemporaneous (whereas Jenny is played by an actress 16 years younger than ASH, although I don't think the gap is meant to be that large)

Spoiler

and then there's the even-younger Olivia (Phina Oruche was b. 1972)

but again, he's meant to have a 16-year-old's urges and the kids haven't actually gone extinct.  And it's not as if he's merely drawn to other spell-victims, or he'd have been macking on Ms. Barton.  (Or Snyder.)  So IMO "Joycie" should seem out of his range, at this point.  Unless young Giles had a thing for his contemporaries' mums, I suppose.

[lembergwatcher]

15 minutes ago, Halting Hex said:

I can only assume that Giles not only worked assiduously to get the murder charges dropped against Buffy (in absentia!) between S2 and S3, but that he also had the little stuff such as "assaulting an officer" and "escaping from custody" tossed as well.  No wonder he's too tired to go patrolling with the gang in Anne.

Yes, Giles and Joyce are contemporaneous (whereas Jenny is played by an actress 16 years younger than ASH, although I don't think the gap is meant to be that large)

  Hide contents

and then there's the even-younger Olivia (Phina Oruche was b. 1972)

but again, he's meant to have a 16-year-old's urges and the kids haven't actually gone extinct.  And it's not as if he's merely drawn to other spell-victims, or he'd have been macking on Ms. Barton.  (Or Snyder.)  So IMO "Joycie" should seem out of his range, at this point.  Unless young Giles had a thing for his contemporaries' mums, I suppose.

You have a point I guess. Probably G-Man did his best to have Buffy completely cleared. And the Council's connections helped him evade responsibility.

The actual break-up with the WC is about to take place in a few months.

.
I think his 16-year-old urges were firmly in place and he could have taken a chance with some cutie, if it wasn't for Buffy (and "the Scooby Gang member for one night" Snyder) to show up and spoil the fun.

[lembergwatcher]

Last but not least. Maybe it was logical thing to do with regard to the storyline, still I'm not that happy since Jane Espenson decided it'd be "cool" and "funny" for Buffy to fight evil "accompanied" by Principal Snyder rather then her friends, who remained overshadowed.

[Halting Hex]

Yeah, the difference between Season 2 and Season 3 is pretty plain by this point.  We're six episodes in and we've had one episode where all the Scoobies participate in the climax of the episode.  (Dead Man's Party;  the Sunnydale gang got some visibility in Anne, but that was a B-plot, it was over and done with before we spent most of a very loooong Act 4 with Buffy, and Giles gave the whole thing a miss, anyhow.)

Whereas in the first six episodes of Season 2, we're still in that 18-episode run to start the series where every single episode features B/W/X/G all being part of the climax.  And Cordelia's involved in all of these, bar Inca Mummy Girl (which was almost surely a leftover S1 script); she just hadn't been integrated to this degree in S1.  It's the upcoming Lie to Me, which is Buffy all by herself, that breaks the pattern.

Now we're watching an episode where the Scoobs are stuck at the Library for the second half of the episode…which was preceded by the episode where Willow and Xander and Oz are at the dance while the action's going on…which was preceded by the episode where Xander and Cordelia manage to somehow vanish from the second half despite the action taking place at school during the day…which was preceded by the episode where Xander and Cordelia and Oz all vanish after Act 2 and Willow only re-emerges for the (awesome) antepenultimate scene.

I grant you that the name of the show is specifically Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but even so.  I like a little less solo in my slayage, personally.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎21‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 9:16 AM, lembergwatcher said:

But the thing is we do not see plenty of those 16-year-olds running around that night. Cordelia or Willow are unreachable (their paths haven't crossed, as far as I remember) and Buffy can kick his old bony ass. In fact I can't recall any other actual teenagers in the picture for the whole climax of an episode. Apart from Scoobies and Oz's band not many of them seem to live in town that moment. The Bronze is full of adults, lots of others roaming the city streets with nothing much else to do. Where are the kids anyway? Doing homework or cooking? Because it seems like they vanished or were kidnapped by aliens (for one night). Maybe I miss something, but such is my overall impression.

And Joyce is not that old.

  Hide contents

Her dates are 1958 - 2001 according to

The Weight of the World ep

. 

Btw, always wondered why wasn't Giles arrested the next morning for assaulting the police officer? Sunnydale PD can't draw the sketch of the assailant? Or they don't consider such kind of activity a criminal offense? Same with Buffy actually. Murder charges dropped, but two counts of attacking the law enforcement officer in Becoming, Part 2 and no consequences at all... No fine or community servise?..

1. Joyce/Kristine is hot! Plenty of adult fic about her, don't worry. Also Giles doesn't just want a pretty girl (and the show is pretty much an ephebophile's dream anyway), he wants someone to party with and she's a whole lot of fun, what would he talk to Buffy, CC, Will etc about?

2. I figure the SDPD just wrote the whole thing off as a hysterical 'prank gone wrong' as they are wont to do. Besides, when you look at how Giles looked that night you wouldn't recognise him with the tweed back on?  

2. 

On ‎22‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 5:03 PM, Halting Hex said:

Yeah, the difference between Season 2 and Season 3 is pretty plain by this point.  We're six episodes in and we've had one episode where all the Scoobies participate in the climax of the episode.  (Dead Man's Party;  the Sunnydale gang got some visibility in Anne, but that was a B-plot, it was over and done with before we spent most of a very loooong Act 4 with Buffy, and Giles gave the whole thing a miss, anyhow.)

Whereas in the first six episodes of Season 2, we're still in that 18-episode run to start the series where every single episode features B/W/X/G all being part of the climax.  And Cordelia's involved in all of these, bar Inca Mummy Girl (which was almost surely a leftover S1 script); she just hadn't been integrated to this degree in S1.  It's the upcoming Lie to Me, which is Buffy all by herself, that breaks the pattern.

Now we're watching an episode where the Scoobs are stuck at the Library for the second half of the episode…which was preceded by the episode where Willow and Xander and Oz are at the dance while the action's going on…which was preceded by the episode where Xander and Cordelia manage to somehow vanish from the second half despite the action taking place at school during the day…which was preceded by the episode where Xander and Cordelia and Oz all vanish after Act 2 and Willow only re-emerges for the (awesome) antepenultimate scene.

I grant you that the name of the show is specifically Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but even so.  I like a little less solo in my slayage, personally.

I think you're right but maybe not wrong to expand the number of characters, look at Angel?

[Joe Hellandback]

RIP Burt Reynolds, a man Joyce thought 'So cool', no man ever rocked the moustache better. 

[Halting Hex]

Oh, no!  Burt's gone?  So long, Boogie Nights…

ETA: also checking out today, Dick DeVos, billionaire founder of Amway and Betsy DeVos's father-in-law.  So there's that.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Halting Hex

[lembergwatcher]

You are a very-very naughty boy, Xander, but you're not serious here, are you? Because how can a person think of anyone else while having Willow in close proximity and especially after that amazing anklesex you two had a few minutes ago? Let Cordelia be happy with Ms Barton instead. They'd look so good together.

[Halting Hex]

As far as lesbian subtext goes, it's not "Buffy and Faith gettin' all sweaty in the Library" in the last episode, but it'll do, I suppose.

Except that, just as with Xander, Ms. Barton seems more interested in the "Little Tree" than she does in CC.  It's hard out here for a (not-actually) Homecoming Queen, it appears.

[lembergwatcher]

19 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Ms. Barton seems more interested in the "Little Tree" than she does in CC.

Well, yes. But who knows what Ms. Barton's possible reaction could be if Cordy was at The Bronze either?

Btw, it seems odd, given their previous experience, that Buffy decided to take Willow for a drive, and not CC. Otherwise, it would have been quite a strong impulse for B/C friendship (and hopefully something more), since Cordelia has a thing for cars.

[Loandbehold]

4 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Btw, it seems odd, given their previous experience, that Buffy decided to take Willow for a drive, and not CC. Otherwise, it would have been quite a strong impulse for B/C friendship (and hopefully something more), since Cordelia has a thing for cars.

Cars, yes. But I doubt Cordy would have been very impressed by Buffy driving the Geek Machine.

[Halting Hex]

So, wait…suddenly Giles is "cool" and a "rebel" because he smokes?  When did this happen?

Didn't we just have two years' worth of anti-smoking messages?  Poor Laura, getting beaten and bloodied in Nightmares for taking a smoking break (with the camera zooming in on the "Smoking Kills" poster).  If she'd waited a couple of seasons, she could have been the subject of swooning, just as "Ripper" is here.

Smoking used to be a way to code evil characters.  Spike lit up at almost literally the first moment he set foot in Sunnydale.  Right after the Judge proves that Angel is soulless, Angel starts Act II of Innocence by striking a match on the table and having a smoke.  What's going on?

I suppose Jane really wanted to have Giles and "Joycie" sharing a joint or two, but the network refused to "glorify" "drug abuse"…so it's just run-of-the-mill cancer sticks here, instead.  Hardly an improvement, IMO.

(And of course this is another attempt "get Joyce over" by putting her in scenes with Snyder.  Yes, Joyce is probably a better parent than Snyder would be…so what?  Hank isn't going to propose to Snyder, I shouldn't think.)