Season 5: Say It Ain't So! Good-bye Detective Michael Logan

[shapeshifter]

14 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I just watched 5.15 "Seed" from 1995, which is pre-Ancestry.com, 23 and Me, etc..

Eventually the detectives and the prosecutors learn that a fertility doctor inseminated dozens of women with eggs fertilized by his own sperm,

13 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

“Seed” was based on a doctor in Virginia who did this. And the real life doctor was convicted.

Coincidentally, I happened to watch a CW show this evening, Family Law, 1.10 "Legacy" with almost the same plot again. Interestingly, even though it was discovered through the 21st century DNA services, the end result was pretty much the same.
I think it should be free on the CW website for at least a few days, even without a subscription.

[Xeliou66]

I watched Competence last night, this is such a great feature for Van Buren, she was really good throughout, it was always nice when she took center stage. It was interesting how Logan was more sympathetic to Van Buren than Briscoe was, when usually Van Buren had a smoother relationship with Briscoe than Logan. I liked Logan standing up to that smug snake Burnett. I understood each of the DA’s positions about it, Jack came off as a bit harsh at times but he was right that they shouldn’t give Van Buren preferential treatment because she’s a cop they know. I liked Anita’s scenes with Olivet as well. The whole episode was a really good one for Van Buren. And I loved the ending scene between Jack and Anita.

Next up was Precious, and I’ll say again that that husband was the most pathetic, spineless sack of garbage you’ll see, he just stood by while his wife killed their kids and kept on making babies with her, it wasn’t until the end that he finally stood up and even then it seemed like he still loved the crazy witch for some reason. I liked Adam’s ending line about how by the time the mom would get out of prison the kid would be old enough to defend itself. 

[andromeda331]

On 12/17/2022 at 10:05 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I watched Competence last night, this is such a great feature for Van Buren, she was really good throughout, it was always nice when she took center stage. It was interesting how Logan was more sympathetic to Van Buren than Briscoe was, when usually Van Buren had a smoother relationship with Briscoe than Logan. I liked Logan standing up to that smug snake Burnett. I understood each of the DA’s positions about it, Jack came off as a bit harsh at times but he was right that they shouldn’t give Van Buren preferential treatment because she’s a cop they know. I liked Anita’s scenes with Olivet as well. The whole episode was a really good one for Van Buren. And I loved the ending scene between Jack and Anita.

I did think Jack was a little harsh but he was right. He also was new. He didn't known Van Buren as well as everyone else. It was a really good episode for Van Buren I always liked when they focused on her because we didn't get that many episodes where they did. She was always great but it was always really nice to see her outside her role as boss.  
 

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Next up was Precious, and I’ll say again that that husband was the most pathetic, spineless sack of garbage you’ll see, he just stood by while his wife killed their kids and kept on making babies with her, it wasn’t until the end that he finally stood up and even then it seemed like he still loved the crazy witch for some reason. I liked Adam’s ending line about how by the time the mom would get out of prison the kid would be old enough to defend itself. 

I hate the husband every bit as much as his wife. Yeah, she was a psycho but he did nothing to stop it. He could have way back before she killed so many kids. There was no excuse for that and he should be in jail for the rest of his life as should she. How could he do nothing while she was murdering their children? How could he still love her?  He's as crazy as she is. 

[Xeliou66]

On 12/19/2022 at 3:38 AM, andromeda331 said:

I did think Jack was a little harsh but he was right. He also was new. He didn't known Van Buren as well as everyone else. It was a really good episode for Van Buren I always liked when they focused on her because we didn't get that many episodes where they did. She was always great but it was always really nice to see her outside her role as boss.  
 

I hate the husband every bit as much as his wife. Yeah, she was a psycho but he did nothing to stop it. He could have way back before she killed so many kids. There was no excuse for that and he should be in jail for the rest of his life as should she. How could he do nothing while she was murdering their children? How could he still love her?  He's as crazy as she is. 

Jack wasn’t new to the DA’s office though, he had been there for a while, we just hadn’t seen his cases until season 5. Van Buren was new to being in charge of the Homicide detectives though, this was only her second season replacing Cragen as the homicide detectives boss. I always liked when Van Buren got to take center stage and she had a lot of good scenes in Competence. Van Buren is a great character, and Competence was a really good episode.

Yeah that husband was just spineless and pathetic, I have no idea how he could continue to not only love his wife knowing she was killing their kids but he continued to have more kids with her, even after she got arrested she got pregnant again. I agree he should’ve gone to jail as an accessory to his batfuck crazy wife. Something was seriously wrong with both of them.

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Jack wasn’t new to the DA’s office though, he had been there for a while, we just hadn’t seen his cases until season 5. Van Buren was new to being in charge of the Homicide detectives though, this was only her second season replacing Cragen as the homicide detectives boss. I always liked when Van Buren got to take center stage and she had a lot of good scenes in Competence. Van Buren is a great character, and Competence was a really good episode.

Yeah, but he might not have worked with her before. It was a very good episode. 

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Yeah that husband was just spineless and pathetic, I have no idea how he could continue to not only love his wife knowing she was killing their kids but he continued to have more kids with her, even after she got arrested she got pregnant again. I agree he should’ve gone to jail as an accessory to his batfuck crazy wife. Something was seriously wrong with both of them.

 

Yeah, something was wrong with both of them. 

[ML89]

20 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Competence was a really good episode.

I love Mike and Lennie in this one, Mike behind Van Buren, Lennie holding back a bit because what if it hurts her - love that. They are both terrific with Gwen, too.

 

17 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yeah, something was wrong with both of them. 

Logan, snarky: He's got a bad back.

Those two were made for each other. That moment when she says "Why doesn't anybody pay attention to me!" explains so much.

 

 

[Xeliou66]

Good season 5 marathon on today -

Guardian was up first, good episode, I really liked the detective work from Briscoe/Logan in this one to figure out who was behind it. It was a big gamble by Jack to ask about the deceased’s vomit in the defendant’s car - I think had the case gone to verdict the defense could’ve won on appeal. I wonder what would’ve happened if Kamen had never taken the stand, would that have been a better move than getting on the stand and lying about what happened. I do think the detectives made a mistake by waiting until he was in the car to arrest him and thus the evidence was tossed, they should’ve investigated more and then got a search warrant. Interesting that Schiff and Van Buren clashed over the arrest. It’s a good case with good twists.

Progeny was up next - good episode, I love McCoy’s cross of that asswipe Seeley and getting him to admit he didn’t believe his own defense, that was awesome. Rodgers was also great telling Garnett his question was moot when testifying. Schiff had some great lines, I love his ending line of “don’t you love it when everybody’s happy”. Kincaid was good as well in this one.

Now I’m watching Rage - great episode, Bud is a memorable villain. I love Jack’s disgust with him, Jack was spot on when he said Bud was a con artist and a killer who was trying to use racial issues to get off the hook. Bud was disliked because he was a smug asshole who was hostile to everyone and thought he was better than everyone, not because of his race. His lawyer did a good job though. Hard to believe the same actor who played Bud played the smooth, relaxed and upstanding ADA Carver on Criminal Intent later on, he pulled off both roles well. I liked Rodgers explaining how the murder took place and telling Lennie he won detective of the week for suspecting murder. Good detective work and investigation in this one as well. This is one of my favorites from season 5.

Season 5 has a great cast of characters with really good chemistry together and some strong and memorable storylines. 

[ML89]

8 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Guardian was up first, good episode, I really liked the detective work from Briscoe/Logan in this one to figure out who was behind it.

Peking Duck! And Van Buren talking about the clothes...

 

9 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Progeny was up next - good episode, I love McCoy’s cross of that asswipe Seeley and getting him to admit he didn’t believe his own defense, that was awesome.

This one is great too.

 

9 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Now I’m watching Rage - great episode, Bud is a memorable villain.

"Not only am I smarter than them, I'm smarter than you, Detective." The apple analogy is terrific - I love all the support staff folks from those seasons.

[Xeliou66]

7 minutes ago, ML89 said:

Peking Duck! And Van Buren talking about the clothes...

 

This one is great too.

 

"Not only am I smarter than them, I'm smarter than you, Detective." The apple analogy is terrific - I love all the support staff folks from those seasons.

Yeah I loved the detective work in Guardian with them tracking down the Chinese restaurant that the deceased ate from and finding the apartment.

I liked the scene where the forensic accountant used the apple analogy to explain Bud’s fraud scheme as well - that was really good. Briscoe/Logan did a good investigation and I liked how the zeroed in on Bud. Bud was so arrogant and hostile to everyone, and then he acted like he didn’t know why he wasn’t well-liked. I love the minor characters as well who assist the detectives and lawyers. ME Rodgers is one of my favorites.  

[ML89]

On 4/4/2023 at 2:05 PM, ML89 said:

Not only am I smarter than them, I'm smarter than you, Detective."

I remembered it wrong - it’s not smarter, it’s better, referring back to Mike’s punks knocking over the 7-11.

[andromeda331]

On 4/4/2023 at 12:05 PM, ML89 said:

Peking Duck! And Van Buren talking about the clothes...

 

This one is great too.

 

"Not only am I smarter than them, I'm smarter than you, Detective." The apple analogy is terrific - I love all the support staff folks from those seasons.

Which made his getting convicted all the more better. Enjoy prison Mr. I'm smarter and better then you. I really hate that guy.

[andromeda331]

On 4/4/2023 at 11:53 AM, Xeliou66 said:

Good season 5 marathon on today -

Guardian was up first, good episode, I really liked the detective work from Briscoe/Logan in this one to figure out who was behind it. It was a big gamble by Jack to ask about the deceased’s vomit in the defendant’s car - I think had the case gone to verdict the defense could’ve won on appeal. I wonder what would’ve happened if Kamen had never taken the stand, would that have been a better move than getting on the stand and lying about what happened. I do think the detectives made a mistake by waiting until he was in the car to arrest him and thus the evidence was tossed, they should’ve investigated more and then got a search warrant. Interesting that Schiff and Van Buren clashed over the arrest. It’s a good case with good twists.

I'm kind of split on the arrest. The cops are right they aren't entitled to a speedy arrest and arrests have been made when their in the car. While it was clear they waited to so they could search the car. I'm still not completely sure it was illegal or the wrong thing to do. Cops have arrested people on purpose while hoping to catch  them with drugs and other stuff on them.

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Progeny was up next - good episode, I love McCoy’s cross of that asswipe Seeley and getting him to admit he didn’t believe his own defense, that was awesome. Rodgers was also great telling Garnett his question was moot when testifying. Schiff had some great lines, I love his ending line of “don’t you love it when everybody’s happy”. Kincaid was good as well in this one.

 

That cross was the best moment of the episode.

[Xeliou66]

On 4/10/2023 at 12:54 AM, andromeda331 said:

I'm kind of split on the arrest. The cops are right they aren't entitled to a speedy arrest and arrests have been made when their in the car. While it was clear they waited to so they could search the car. I'm still not completely sure it was illegal or the wrong thing to do. Cops have arrested people on purpose while hoping to catch  them with drugs and other stuff on them.

That cross was the best moment of the episode.

Yeah the arrest in the car in Guardian was interesting and I could see a judge going either way on that, but I thought the detectives should’ve gathered more evidence so they could’ve gotten a proper search warrant rather than resorting to a stunt that wound up backfiring. I also thought the defense might have a good appeal seeing that Jack brought up the evidence found in the car when cross examining the defendant, so I wondered if the defense would’ve been smarter to let him be found guilty and then appeal rather than accept the DAs plea offer. Also I’m not sure why the defendant took the stand if he had to lie - wouldn’t the defense have anticipated that the prosecution might try to bring up the evidence from the car to challenge his credibility?

Jack’s cross of Seeley in Progeny was excellent. Progeny was a good episode, I liked Claire’s anger at the situation and her passion about it while Jack stayed focused on proving their case, and I liked Adam’s lines as well.

On 4/10/2023 at 12:45 AM, andromeda331 said:

Which made his getting convicted all the more better. Enjoy prison Mr. I'm smarter and better then you. I really hate that guy.

Yeah Bud was despicable - a murderer and a con man. He apparently never realized the reason he wasn’t well liked was because he was a smug asshole with a gigantic chip on his shoulder. It was kind of funny to me how the defense tried to get the case dismissed because the detectives zeroed in on Bud, it was like the defense wanted to punish the detectives for being right about the case, and then the defense attorney admitted he never expected the motion to go anywhere he was just preparing for trial. I liked Jack telling Bud he was disgusted with him and that he was glad the case was going to verdict.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah the arrest in the car in Guardian was interesting and I could see a judge going either way on that, but I thought the detectives should’ve gathered more evidence so they could’ve gotten a proper search warrant rather than resorting to a stunt that wound up backfiring. I also thought the defense might have a good appeal seeing that Jack brought up the evidence found in the car when cross examining the defendant, so I wondered if the defense would’ve been smarter to let him be found guilty and then appeal rather than accept the DAs plea offer. Also I’m not sure why the defendant took the stand if he had to lie - wouldn’t the defense have anticipated that the prosecution might try to bring up the evidence from the car to challenge his credibility?

 Yeah, that would be something they could appeal on. I don't know why the defense lawyer let him testify either. He knew he was going to lie. He pretty much had too. They really didn't think the prosecution would pouce on that? All they had to do was prove he was lying. He sunk himself.

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Jack’s cross of Seeley in Progeny was excellent. Progeny was a good episode, I liked Claire’s anger at the situation and her passion about it while Jack stayed focused on proving their case, and I liked Adam’s lines as well.

I love that cross. It was so good. I liked that they showed Claire's anger. The last case involving abortion was back with Stone, Robinette and Adam. It was good to have a woman's point of view. Adam was great as always. He had so many good lines.

 

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Yeah Bud was despicable - a murderer and a con man. He apparently never realized the reason he wasn’t well liked was because he was a smug asshole with a gigantic chip on his shoulder. It was kind of funny to me how the defense tried to get the case dismissed because the detectives zeroed in on Bud, it was like the defense wanted to punish the detectives for being right about the case, and then the defense attorney admitted he never expected the motion to go anywhere he was just preparing for trial. I liked Jack telling Bud he was disgusted with him and that he was glad the case was going to verdict.

Yeah, Bud's one of my least favorites because he's such a smug asshole. It still amazes me that he is and considers himself better then everyone around him when he couldn't even do his job right. Then murdered his boss when he found out. He was nothing more then a common criminal. I don't know what his lawyer was thinking. The detectives zero in on him because learned enough to consider him a suspect. The more they digged the more they found they were right. That's an odd defense to go with.  

[WendyCR72]

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I don't know what his lawyer was thinking. The detectives zero in on him because learned enough to consider him a suspect. The more they digged the more they found they were right. That's an odd defense to go with.  

I imagine it's like real life with a lawyer that has an apparently obvious guilty client: They still must defend their client vigorously, so...try any objection and hope something sticks.

[Xeliou66]

23 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

 Yeah, that would be something they could appeal on. I don't know why the defense lawyer let him testify either. He knew he was going to lie. He pretty much had too. They really didn't think the prosecution would pouce on that? All they had to do was prove he was lying. He sunk himself.

I love that cross. It was so good. I liked that they showed Claire's anger. The last case involving abortion was back with Stone, Robinette and Adam. It was good to have a woman's point of view. Adam was great as always. He had so many good lines.

 

Yeah, Bud's one of my least favorites because he's such a smug asshole. It still amazes me that he is and considers himself better then everyone around him when he couldn't even do his job right. Then murdered his boss when he found out. He was nothing more then a common criminal. I don't know what his lawyer was thinking. The detectives zero in on him because learned enough to consider him a suspect. The more they digged the more they found they were right. That's an odd defense to go with.  

Yeah I was unsure why the defense lawyer let the guy testify in Guardian, he would’ve been better not letting the defendant testify and just attacking the prosecutions case. I guess he didn’t anticipate the judge allowing the prosecution to use the forensic evidence to impeach his client’s credibility. It’s a good episode though, and I particularly like how the detectives tracked down where the victim was and who she had been with.

It was nice having a woman’s point of view in Progeny and I like the episode pretty good, specifically the legal stuff with Jack, Claire and Adam.

Bud is a very memorable villain due to his arrogance and smugness, and also for the fact that the actor went on to play Carver on CI. I understood why the defense lawyer was doing what he did, Bud was clearly guilty and so he had to be creative with a defense, I just thought it was kind of funny that he wanted the case dismissed because the detectives got the right guy. And yeah Bud still thought he was so much better than everyone else even though he had to resort to fraud to get good results at his job and then killed his boss when he found out.