Zola August 17, 2017 Share August 17, 2017 3 hours ago, PeterPirate said: Voting off Women of Qumar 1. B4A 2. Indians In The Lobby 3. 100000 Airplanes 4. H-Con 172 @PeterPirate. "Airplanes" has already been voted out. The one remaining choice is "Gone Quiet" Link to comment
Guest August 17, 2017 Share August 17, 2017 H Con 172 is gone. :( We have our four finalists! To determine the winner for the season, please rank the final four episodes like we have done in the past! Choices are: 7. Gone Quiet 8. The Indians in the Lobby 9. The Women of Qumar 10. Bartlet For America Link to comment
Guest August 17, 2017 Share August 17, 2017 1) Gone Quiet - Jed's talk about Albie is my favorite part, especially when he asks if he can tell the situation as a hypothetical and then when he says he's going to take a copy of the Constitution with him. 2) Indians in the Lobby - I adore the Butterball turkey hotline call to the point I would enjoy this episode just for that scene! But there is more. 3) Bartlet for America - I love the napkin scene. 4) Women of Qumar - great episode, but my least favorite of these four. Link to comment
Melancholy August 17, 2017 Share August 17, 2017 1. Bartlet for America: A perfect episode. Leo's story is the clear highlight and there's so much heart in it even through the congressional machinations. But, the moral grey tenor of actually seeing Jed actively hide the MS is fascinating and that Jed/Hoynes flashback is a favorite scene. Also, the black churches being burned down by racist assholes is another great case of TWW writing particularly interesting Thanksgiving/Christmas stories by considering how it affects the marginalized. 2. Indians in the White House Lobby: Another great case of a particularly great Thanksgiving by making the continued oppression of the indigenous people an A-plot. Plus, the Butterball Hotline. There's a bunch of very strong other stories- making a story about how to calculate the poverty line interesting and very fun as Sam tries to butter up Bernice, some moral grey intrigue to the child death penalty story, a nice twist to polling where the Bartlet family spends Thanksgiving. 3. The Women of Qumar: I love the CJ stories on Qumar and Mad Cow disease and the introduction to Amy. Charlie's school stuff is very cute. The Smithsonian exhibit on Japanese internment was interesting. I think this loses because Sam's seatbelt story was dull. 4. Gone Quiet: I've been trying to vote this ep out for some time. It's very funny but it's not really Celestial Navigation levels of funny where the confluence of events leading to one boiling point and the unusual way of telling the story all led up to something very special. I'll vote for the eps that moved me and had great character work. That wasn't Gone Quiet. I also think the NEA story is on the dull side on rewatch once you've heard the wacky NEA stories before and know that the conservative woman in the story has a weird voice. Link to comment
Zola August 17, 2017 Share August 17, 2017 1) Bartlet for America - Leo's emotive description of his alcohol addiction to Jordon Kendall, was beautifully captured; and Jordon reciprocating by accepting his dinner invitation. And of course the napkin at the end - will always have me in floods of tears! 2) Gone Quiet - some light humour at the expense of the president from Albie Duncan; the gradual erosion of CJ's happy "I'm too sexy" disposition throughout the episode as she tries to find a reason why the president wants to run again; Charlie being accused by Bartlet of rolling his eyes. A very fluffy episode, but hugely entertaining. 3) Indians in the Lobby - CJ's confession to the president of "losing consciousness" listening to him talking about how to baste a turkey, and crossing the line where you don't mess with the president; the Butterball Hotline of course; and the Indians story really topped it off. 4) Women of Qumar- one of those controversial episodes regarding CJ totally losing it over the appalling hypocrisy of selling arms to Middle Eastern countries that beat and torture their women. Personally, I was with CJ all the way, but the episode itself left me a little cold Link to comment
PeterPirate August 17, 2017 Share August 17, 2017 9 hours ago, Zola said: @PeterPirate. "Airplanes" has already been voted out. The one remaining choice is "Gone Quiet" Oops, sorry about that. I'm really only voting for Bartlet For America and putting the others in random order. Link to comment
Bastet August 17, 2017 Share August 17, 2017 1. The Indians in the Lobby 2. The Women of Qumar 3. Bartlet for America 4. Gone Quiet Link to comment
Guest August 18, 2017 Share August 18, 2017 We have a tie for the winner! Bartlet for America and Indians in the Lobby tied for first! (I was predicting a win for Bartlet for America since the game started, so I'm surprised.) Third place goes to Gone Quiet and fourth place to Women of Qumar. On to season 4! Vote for three. 1. 20 Hours in America Part 1 2. 20 Hours in America Part 2 3. College Kids 4. The Red Mass 5. Debate Camp 6. Game On 7. Election Night 8. Process Stories 9. Swiss Diplomacy 10. Arctic Radar 11. Holy Night 12. Guns Not Butter 13. The Long Goodbye 14. Inauguration (Part 1) 15. Inauguration: Over There 16. California 47th 17. Red Haven's on Fire 18. Privateers 19. Angel Maintenance 20. Evidence of Things Not Seen 21. Life on Mars 22. Commencement 23. Twenty Five Link to comment
Guest August 18, 2017 Share August 18, 2017 13. The Long Goodbye - I love CJ, but I hate this episode. I miss the White House. It's a sad episode. And I hate how they act like Dayton, Ohio is Hicksville, USA. It's not a super small town like they seem to want to portray. 17. Red Haven's on Fire - I hate this whole plot about the California 47th and hated losing Sam 18. Privateers - I hate Abby and Amy trying to torpedo a bill the President agreed to pass. No one voted for either of you, and you are supposedly on the same team. Link to comment
Melancholy August 18, 2017 Share August 18, 2017 (edited) The Long Goodbye: Its not The West Wing. Also, Mathew Modine's character seemed like a creeper. Red Havens On Fire: It still feels like needless angst to have Sam lose both the congressional election and his role at the White House. I also didn't like the cliched "family of soldiers" who were sitting with Leo, especially that old mother who made cheap racist shots that she thought was deep grief fueled debate. Swiss Diplomacy: The Iranian story had an interesting concept but all of the other stories were dumb. I think this ep and The Long Goodbye were the first eps that Aaron Sorkin didn't write. And it really showed. Swiss Diplomacy was loaded with failed jokes and a perversion of the Sorkinese banter.) Edited August 18, 2017 by Melancholy Link to comment
Zola August 18, 2017 Share August 18, 2017 9. Swiss Diplomacy 13. The Long Goodbye 18. Privateers Link to comment
Guest August 19, 2017 Share August 19, 2017 The Long Goodbye, Swiss Diplomacy, and Red Haven's on Fire are gone! Vote for three. 1. 20 Hours in America Part 1 2. 20 Hours in America Part 2 3. College Kids 4. The Red Mass 5. Debate Camp 6. Game On 7. Election Night 8. Process Stories 10. Arctic Radar 11. Holy Night 12. Guns Not Butter 14. Inauguration (Part 1) 15. Inauguration: Over There 16. California 47th 18. Privateers 19. Angel Maintenance 20. Evidence of Things Not Seen 21. Life on Mars 22. Commencement 23. Twenty Five Link to comment
Guest August 19, 2017 Share August 19, 2017 Privateers California 47th 20 Hours in America Part 1 Link to comment
Zola August 19, 2017 Share August 19, 2017 12. Guns Not Butter 16. California 47th 18. Privateers Link to comment
Melancholy August 20, 2017 Share August 20, 2017 (edited) Arctic Radar: Because of Aaron Sorkin-speaking-through-Josh to insult die-hard fans of TV shows. Even in an episode about Toby squabbling with Sam over what sports memorabilia will be taken from Sam's office, we need a lecture about Stars Trek pins are inappropriate in the office. Shut up, Sorkin. Also, the asinine plot about Donna making Josh ask Commander Reese out for her. I strongly believe Star Trek pins are more professional than Donna enlisting Josh into her plans to snare Jack Reese (or frankly, a lot of Donna's hijinks.) The reporter squabbling with CJ over his seat in the press room feels realistic but actually too petty for me to enjoy a storyline about it. That's enough bad to overpower the excellence of the "THERE ARE BIG SIGNS, YOU CAN'T PARK THERE" scene or Fitzwallace schooling Josh for his Jackie Robinson-condescension. Privateers: I actually like the Amy/Abbey story. Abbey didn't want to kill the foreign aid bill that her husband wanted. She just wanted to lobby hard to eliminate the global gag order amendment that her husband didn't even want but just strategically felt that he had to eat to get foreign aid passed. Amy thought this was playing too fast and lose with the actual President's agenda but Abbey though they could take that risk and help Jed have everything that he truly does want. After a day of seeing that there's no lobbying to get the foreign aid bill passed but without the global gag rule, Abbey folded. First Ladies do have the power and staff to lobby for policy changes that sound innocuous on the surface but are actually pretty significant in people's lives. I see how a doctor-First Lady believes that expanding women's control over their own health care around the world falls into that category. But this episode loses for me because Donna's incredibly stupid story about stalking DAR guests in order to perform a Secret Service role and Charlie's stalkery attitude with Zoey. The California 47th: Not a bad episode but a little on the dull side. Maybe it's an UO but I thought Charlie/Toby getting into a bar fight over insults to their ladies kind of hokey and weird for this show. It yielded some funny lines but it made me really uncomfortable. Same with Jed's smug attitude that the US military took over Kundu that contradicted the good humanitarian intentions behind the storyline. Edited August 20, 2017 by Melancholy Link to comment
Guest August 20, 2017 Share August 20, 2017 California 47th, Privateers, and Arctic Radar are gone! @Melancholy, I believe Abby said she would rather the bill not pass than pass with the gag rule. I would need to rewatch though. I thought it was extremely sanctimonious of her, a wealthy American, to want to kill aid to developing countries over a provision she didn't like, especially given the fact she was not an elected official. Keep voting against three! 1. 20 Hours in America Part 1 2. 20 Hours in America Part 2 3. College Kids 4. The Red Mass 5. Debate Camp 6. Game On 7. Election Night 8. Process Stories 11. Holy Night 12. Guns Not Butter 14. Inauguration (Part 1) 15. Inauguration: Over There 19. Angel Maintenance 20. Evidence of Things Not Seen 21. Life on Mars 22. Commencement 23. Twenty Five Link to comment
Zola August 20, 2017 Share August 20, 2017 1. 20 Hours in America Part 1 12. Guns Not Butter 19. Angel Maintenance Link to comment
Melancholy August 20, 2017 Share August 20, 2017 @deaja, Abbey pulled away from the plan once it was clear to her that she couldn't kill the amendment without killing foreign aid. Abbey's issue wasn't with the foreign aid. She wanted to push government to pass a foreign aid bill without the gag order. As for the "wealthy American killing aid obey provisions that she didn't like", I think that's the essence of the gag order. It's killing aid to desperately poor countries unless they live up to conservative moral standards and making sure that poor people in other country can't enjoy the freedom of speech afforded to Americans and making sure women can't talk candidly to their doctors even if they have a pregnancy that's killing them or was the product of rape. I don't fault Abbey for trying for a day to see if she could use her taxpayer funded office and staff to get the aid without making it conditional on the world's poor living up to Clancy Bangart's moral standards. Process Stories: Very cute election victory stuff, especially with CJ and Jed/Abbey. But I haaaaate the Donna/Reese story. I also don't care for the disjointed odd detour where Andi was courting legal and political controversy in her pregnancy. I don't find it realistic or an important enough universal battle that Andi would justifiably hurt Toby's feelings/reputation and bring her children into a storm to make a Go Single Mothers! Point. Holy Night: Basically, the same problems with Process Stories. Inaugaration (Part 1): Yup, more Jack Reese. Maybe it's an UO but I don't care for the scene where CJ fights back against Danny by getting him so hot and bothered that he misses the briefing. Allison Janney is very funny, of course, but it feels like shady outrageous wheel spinning to no productive end. Link to comment
Guest August 20, 2017 Share August 20, 2017 20 Hours in America Part 1 Inaguaration Part 2 for the scene at Donna's apartment alone 20 Hours Part 2 Link to comment
Guest August 21, 2017 Share August 21, 2017 20 Hours in America, Guns not Butter, and Angel Maintenance (sniff!) have been eliminated. Please vote against 3! 2. 20 Hours in America Part 2 3. College Kids 4. The Red Mass 5. Debate Camp 6. Game On 7. Election Night 8. Process Stories 11. Holy Night 14. Inauguration (Part 1) 15. Inauguration: Over There 20. Evidence of Things Not Seen 21. Life on Mars 22. Commencement 23. Twenty Five Link to comment
Guest August 21, 2017 Share August 21, 2017 20 Hours in America Part II and both parts of Inaguaration Link to comment
Melancholy August 21, 2017 Share August 21, 2017 As before: Process Stories Inauguration I Holy Night Link to comment
Bastet August 21, 2017 Share August 21, 2017 (edited) I don't remember this season as well, so there may very well be worse episodes than these, but here's what is springing to mind: Inauguration: Over There: For the stupid guys going over to stupid Donna's apartment to bring her stupid ass to the ball Inauguration: They might as well go together, plus the Reese stuff 20 Hours in America II: Because the first one is gone, so this might as well be, too, and I just vaguely remember not really liking either one - the fallout of the stories I didn't like at the end of season three, plus the adventures of Toby, Josh, and good ol' shoehorned-in Donna trying to get home. Meh. Edited August 22, 2017 by Bastet Link to comment
Zola August 22, 2017 Share August 22, 2017 6 hours ago, Bastet said: I don't remember this season as well, so there very well be worse episodes than these, but here's what is springing to mind: Inauguration: Over There: For the stupid guys going over to stupid Donna's apartment to bring her stupid ass to the ball Inauguration: They might as well go together, plus the Reese stuff 20 Hours in America II: Because the first one is gone, so this might as well be, too, and I just vaguely remember not really liking either one - the fallout of the stories I didn't like at the end of season three, plus the adventures of Toby, Josh, and good ol' shoehorned in Donna trying to get home. Meh. Same votes here too. The weakest link in all three episodes is Donna - as much as I love her (at times), she really does come over as some kind of entitled, condescending SOB in these episodes, especially her fawning over Jack Reese. Link to comment
Melancholy August 22, 2017 Share August 22, 2017 I hate that the show spun Donna covering for Reese in Danny's story as some kind of harmless soft-hearted error. It wasn't. It's key for national security, the success of the Kundu mission where millions of lives are at stake, and the political success of the Bartlet administration to know whether the Nationals Security Advisor's deputy with high code word clearance would trash his President because he didn't care for his assignment. And as always, Donna was the last one with the credibility to lecture Abbey about missing her medical license because Abbey did shady stuff because her man asked her to. Donna has nice moments. But I feel like the strongest immediate factor to eliminate an episode is "Does it have one of the stupid Donna stories?" Link to comment
Guest August 22, 2017 Share August 22, 2017 Both parts of the Inauguration and Holy Night are gone! Please drop to voting against 2. 2. 20 Hours in America Part 2 3. College Kids 4. The Red Mass 5. Debate Camp 6. Game On 7. Election Night 8. Process Stories 20. Evidence of Things Not Seen 21. Life on Mars 22. Commencement 23. Twenty Five Link to comment
Guest August 22, 2017 Share August 22, 2017 20 Hours in America Part 2 Process Stories Link to comment
Melancholy August 22, 2017 Share August 22, 2017 Process Stories: As before. Election Night: Again, for the Donna story. Idiotic trading votes story. The sonogram stuff with Toby and Andi was dull too. That overpowers the good stuff- "wrath of the whatever from high atop the thing", "Oh, I get it. You guys are a little acting troupe. A troupe with a u", and "You've got lots of nights." Link to comment
Zola August 22, 2017 Share August 22, 2017 Hours in America Part 2 Process Stories Reason? Donna Link to comment
Bastet August 22, 2017 Share August 22, 2017 4 hours ago, Melancholy said: Donna has nice moments. But I feel like the strongest immediate factor to eliminate an episode is "Does it have one of the stupid Donna stories?" Same here. Danny annoying me more than usual is a recurring reason, too, but it's often a Donna storyline that springs to mind when I think of episode weaknesses. 20 Hours in America Part 2 (see previous complaints) Process Stories (I used to like Andi, but I really hate the Andi/Toby storyline once she gets pregnant - it doesn't do good things for either one of them - and, of course, I hate the Donna/Reese storyline) Link to comment
Melancholy August 22, 2017 Share August 22, 2017 I've got mixed feelings about the Toby/Andi pregnancy story. I think the "Andi is looking for a legal/political fight around the pregnancy" was dumb and unfinished. I did think Toby's anxieties about being a father were very well written and acted and were affecting. It didn't make the characters (especially Andi) look good but Toby's confusion about the possibility of them remarrying and it all coming to a head in the house he bought her was just devastating heart rending writing. But that's all S4. This was clearly an Aaron Sorkin story that he was emotionally committed to. However the later writers weren't invested at all, much like how they weren't that interested in Toby. And the lack of interest and intimation that Toby ended up being a disengaged father felt like worse character assasination than anything including the shuttle leak. However, I think it would have been a beautiful story if Sorkin wrote the later seasons. Link to comment
Guest August 23, 2017 Share August 23, 2017 20 Hours in America and Process Story are gone! Please continue to vote against 2. 3. College Kids 4. The Red Mass 5. Debate Camp 6. Game On 7. Election Night 20. Evidence of Things Not Seen 21. Life on Mars 22. Commencement 23. Twenty Five Link to comment
Guest August 23, 2017 Share August 23, 2017 Election Night (I do like the opening scene of the massive prank they played on Josh.) Debate Camp - I hate the Toby/Andy flashbacks and Donna is such a massive idiot that I can't take it Link to comment
Melancholy August 23, 2017 Share August 23, 2017 Election Night, as said above. Man, the rest of these are really good. I guess College Kids is the less exciting entry on the list. Link to comment
Bastet August 23, 2017 Share August 23, 2017 Debate Camp - I think my groan when Toby said Andi is pregnant with twins caused detectable seismic activity. Plus, Donna is an idiot. Election Night - Donna's idiotic vote trading thing (which, of course, winds up introducing the awful Jack Reese storyline), plus other things I don't like, namely Andi's pregnancy and Will Bailey. Link to comment
Zola August 23, 2017 Share August 23, 2017 All these votes coming in, all seem to have one common denominator - "Impervious" Donna! Feeling sorry for her right now. Link to comment
Bastet August 23, 2017 Share August 23, 2017 51 minutes ago, Zola said: All these votes coming in, all seem to have one common denominator - "Impervious" Donna! This is the season she started to really bug me the first time around (now, I'm more annoyed with the little things in earlier seasons than I was the first time, because I know what's coming). There was a lot of "Shut up, Donna" grumbled at the TV. Link to comment
Zola August 23, 2017 Share August 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, Bastet said: This is the season she started to really bug me the first time around (now, I'm more annoyed with the little things in earlier seasons than I was the first time, because I know what's coming). There was a lot of "Shut up, Donna" grumbled at the TV. To be honest, I started rolling my eyes at Donna when she was bugging Josh over her former teacher, Molly Morrello, with a view that she should get some kind of presidential proclamation for basically doing her job prior to retirement. (Season 3, and "Stirred" I think) Her sense of entitlement due to her hallowed position within the White House, had me grinding my teeth, as well as uttering a few choice Anglo-Saxon epithets at my tv. But I guess she was the only continually visible female character after CJ throughout the show, so she had my support.... at times. But anyway, there's another thread here for her and her irritating foibles, lol Link to comment
Guest August 24, 2017 Share August 24, 2017 Debate Camp and Election Night are gone! Please vote against 1! 3. College Kids 4. The Red Mass 6. Game On 20. Evidence of Things Not Seen 21. Life on Mars 22. Commencement 23. Twenty Five Link to comment
Melancholy August 24, 2017 Share August 24, 2017 College Kids. A perfectly nice ep but the most dull compared to the artyness the The Red Mass, the debate ep, and the excitement of the final 4 eps. Link to comment
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