S04.E14: A Bride. A Box. A Body.

[PinkRibbons]

NOTE: Reign airs on Thursdays in Canada, meaning that the episodes are very often viewed a day before they have aired in the US. Therefore please be aware that this thread will almost definitely have spoilers for those who wish to wait until Friday night to view the new episode.

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Mary pursues justice by launching a counterattack on her conspirators. Meanwhile, Elizabeth suffers a major setback, and it turns her world upside down.

 

[Artsda]

Well wow Narcisse. I'm impressed by and liked his long con of revenge for Lola. 

Claude needs to forget about Leith already.

[PinkRibbons]

Dick in a box. Classic.

I'm gonna give Mary some leeway with pregnancy hormones for being this frikkin stupid about Darnley. Although meanwhile the idea that he's deranged and thinks Keira is still guiding him...well, I didn't see that coming. My guess is that they won't go with the strangulation of Darnley, but that they'll follow through on this line of a pyromaniacal habit of his and have the explosion that in history was supposed to kill him but didn't quite, (hence the strangulation) actually be his own fault.

I don't think I was supposed to find it funny but I laughed so hard at Nicole screwing herself over so incredibly. She handed Charles the perfect lie to explain her distancing herself to make him choose her over all. I liked her acknowledging Charles's kindness but the fact that she used it against him until it actually bit her in the butt seems quite fair.

I thought the show was compositing Henri and his younger brother with the crossdressing, but I can't find any sources, so perhaps this is just a tip of the hat to Elizabeth?

Speaking of whom, no. Huh-uh. No way. Elizabeth would have never ever wanted a man more than she wanted to be Queen. I get they wanted Gideon's death to hurt, fine, but they went over the top. Especially in them marrying in that chapel. Even agreeing to be married in those times was tantamount to be married. She willingly made her mind up to be a bigamist in this episode? And jeez, her fiancee is a decent fella! I just can't and don't believe it that she would risk her throne and her life for love. She spent her formative years with little to focus on other than keeping her head down and avoiding getting murdered by her own family. I don't think she ever trusted anyone much for the rest of her life. I don't even blame RS's performance as Liz, I blame the writers. That was too much. Mary, I believe, was stupid enough to try to have her cake and eat it too (thinking she could carry one with Conde while remaining Queen of France), but that just does not fit Elizabeth. You know what would have made this episode a lot more interesting on Elizabeth's side? Showing her discomfort and outrage at the idea of someone trying to depose a fellow sitting female monarch. Sowing the seeds of false friendship between the two Queens that led Mary to trust her with her life. Ugh.

Final thoughts -- think Jane was working for Narcisse? I wished she had just genuinely been Elizabeth's Friend In The Know, and we're close to the end here, so she better have been working for someone big to shoehorn her traitorousness into the storyline now.

[NorthstarATL]

They're laying on the crazy really thick as they near the end! Loved Darn Darnley's reveal about being guided by "Keira"; I wonder if he had her stuffed? Once again, the casting was off with Charles and Henry. Henry not only looks so much older, but Charles would look exquisite in drag! (Though, really, was cross-dressing THAT much of a thing back the? Both genders' clothing was so similar, except for the constriction on the females, and that's more masochism than cross-dressing IMO.) I knew when Lizzie and Giddy were doing the West Side Story wedding scene that he was a goner. This really could have been the series' musical episode.

[Jacks-Son]

10 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

Dick in a box. Classic.

Actually, it's Nuts in a Box, even classier, since he hated a woman on a throne. Now he can be a Eunuch on a Rope; dangling without his dangles. I like what Narcisse did to Knox, but I think he went too far with Gideon. Gideon was alway a straight-up honest man and while he played no role in Lola's death, he should NOT have been used as revenge against Elizabeth.  Neither should Elizabeth be the object of Narcisse's revenge. Elizabeth thought that Mary had plotted her regicide, and she was sort of justified in Lola's beheading. Everything was Knox's fault and both Elizabeth and Mary grieved Lola's death. Both Queens should have been acting in unison to bring Knox down. They both loved Lola.

I hated that Lord Ruthven died so easily and quickly, but they had to move his story along. I did like the fact that his smug look of thinking he had the upper hand with Mary being in the castle, fell just as quickly.

Not knowing anything about Henri's penchant for crossdressing, I was caught by surprise. What also caught me by surprise was Nicole's easy acceptance of it. I don't know if she was sincerely understanding, or just accepting it as another step in her rise to power. I DO however like her twisting in the wind with the surprise betrothal to Charles. (That betrothal should last as long as Claude's dance with Luc, Catherine will have none of that crap!) Nicole is another one that should get a nasty ending, as should Henri. Too many people playing with others' emotions while good people like Lola and Gideon pay the price.

I don't know what's going on with Claude but she needs to move on from Leith and stay with Luc. He seems to be an honest man, unlike his father. I DO believe that she has grudgingly come to love Luc, but her vow to not love anyone else except Leith is noble but a waste. Find love where you can girl, it may not last forever.

10 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

Final thoughts -- think Jane was working for Narcisse? I wished she had just genuinely been Elizabeth's Friend In The Know, and we're close to the end here, so she better have been working for someone big to shoehorn her traitorousness into the storyline now

@PinkRibbons, I think you've got it right about Jane working for Narcisse.  If Narcisse was playing Gideon a couple of episodes ago, when he gave him that sage advice about the saltpeter then it truly was a long con; Narcisse is indeed formidable. Too bad I don't like Craig Parker from his days as Lord Rahl on the "Legend of the Seeker".

Edited June 3, 2017 by Jacks-Son
Beheading NOT hanging

[Artsda]

1 hour ago, Jacks-Son said:

Neither should Elizabeth be the object of Narcisse's revenge. Elizabeth thought that Mary had plotted her regicide, and she was sort of justified in Lola's hanging.

I disagree she made her choices, she knew Lola was a mother and wife and she chose to behead her without second guessing anything. Narcisse had to watch her die by Elizabeth's choice just like Narcisse made her watch her loved one die by his choice.

[TaurusRose]

I've got one word for Mary Stuart...hypocrite.

[TaurusRose]

20 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

If Narcisse was playing Gideon a couple of episodes ago, when he gave him that sage advice about the saltpeter then it truly was a long con; Narcisse is indeed formidable. Too bad I don't like Craig Parker from his days as Lord Rahl on the "Legend of the Seeker".

I will always love Craig Parker who first hit my radar as Haldir in LOTR.  And he is killing it as Narcisse.  

Edited June 4, 2017 by taurusrose

[Jacks-Son]

1 hour ago, taurusrose said:

I will always love Craig Parker who first hit my radar as Haldir in LOTR.  And he is killing it as Narcisse.

Oh, he's a very good actor, but I will always see him as the Keeper's (the Devil) minion in LotS. I don't remember him in LOTR, was he a bad guy in that also?

[Jacks-Son]

20 hours ago, Artsda said:

I disagree she made her choices, she knew Lola was a mother and wife and she chose to behead her without second guessing anything. Narcisse had to watch her die by Elizabeth's choice just like Narcisse made her watch her loved one die by his choice.

Monarchs have to make hard decisions. Yes, Lola was a mother and a wife, but she still tried to kill Queen Elizabeth. The murder attempt was in full view of others. Elizabeth may have loved Lola, but she still had to punish her or be seen as weak. Mary had Lord Ruthven executed. He could have also been a father and a husband, but he threatened Mary, his Queen. HE chose to try to harm Queen Mary, knowing she was with child and in cahoots with Knox, who turned out Lady Emily.  If the culprit tries to kill you, and THEY also also have family, should the culprit be granted leniency simply because they have family?

We as fans, loved Lola, and her death was hard to accept, but I bear Elizabeth no ill will because of it. Knox is the TRUE culprit and Knox should be made to pay with his balls and then his life.  I could somewhat understand if Knox knew Mary was a traitor to her people or an evil despot, but Knox was a misogynist who simply could not stand to see Scotland ruled by a woman. Don't forget, Knox forged a letter, presumably from Mary, delivered by the Nanny to Lola. Upon orders from "Mary", Lola was to kill Elizabeth.  Elizabeth didn't find out until after the beheading, that it was all a ruse devised by Knox. Both Elizabeth and Mary should have gone after Knox with everything they had. HE caused the whole thing and consequently, both Queens lost a woman they dearly loved.  Anyway, that's how I see it. :-)

One last question: Why do you think Queen Mary was so outraged with Narcisse after he presented her with his "gift" and she realized that he had arranged Gideon's death?

Edited June 4, 2017 by Jacks-Son
Last question

[wonderchica05]

Mary kicking over Lord Ruthven's stool at his execution was a boss move.

[TaurusRose]

17 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

Oh, he's a very good actor, but I will always see him as the Keeper's (the Devil) minion in LotS. I don't remember him in LOTR, was he a bad guy in that also?

No, he was the leader of the kick ass elves who intercepted the fellowship after Moria and escorted them to Lothlorien.  Haldir also fought with Legolas, Aragorn and Gimli at the battle of Helm's Deep. Am I a fan girl geek or what?  LOL

[TaurusRose]

17 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

One last question: Why do you think Queen Mary was so outraged with Narcisse after he presented her with his "gift" and she realized that he had arranged Gideon's death?

Beats me, but I repeat...Mary is a hypocrite.  She had no problem sacrificing an innocent (Knox's wife) to get intel on her enemies.  She killed that dude at the top of the season for revenge (he was responsible for Francis's death) and what about her "boss" move at Ruthven's execution?  I was never a fan of the real Mary Stuart, but I cannot stand Reign's version of her.  Narcisse is ruthless when crossed, but he's never been a hypocrite.  It doesn't matter to him (or me) that Elizabeth had her reasons or that Lola acted on false instructions, Elizabeth killed the love of his life, his wife, and thought she was doing him a favor by allowing him to watch. Payback is a bitch and I'm behind Narcisse 100%. Mary likes to pretend she is a better person than she is.  She was selfish and thoughtless when she was in France. She is inept and empty bluster in Scotland. The lords don't want her for a variety of reasons. She never cultivated the correct alliances or stirred real loyalty among the nobles she needed. She depended too heavily on men falling in love with her and that being the sole reason for their devotion and willingness to do whatever for her.

[Moxie Cat]

On June 2, 2017 at 6:03 PM, PinkRibbons said:

Final thoughts -- think Jane was working for Narcisse?

Yes, that was my thought as well. We saw that she was corresponding with someone. At this point, Narcisse makes the most sense, since Jane was in on the Gideon affair.

Damn, we got cross-dressing, Darnley going nuts, and Narcisse pulling a Greyjoy (more or less). A real callback to the days of the ghost and lovers falling out windows!

Loving the preview: "Mary may not survive." Uh, spoiler?

Spoiler

She does.

On June 4, 2017 at 6:19 PM, taurusrose said:

No, he was the leader of the kick ass elves who intercepted the fellowship after Moria and escorted them to Lothlorien.

Even thought I now pointedly watch the Haldir scenes now, knowing who it is, I'll be damned if I can't recognize any bit of him. Was he heavier in those days or was that makeup? It goes way beyond the blond hair.

[LoveTheGame]

When all of this was playing out, I was wondering what Narcisse had planned for Mary. He was going through everyone he held responsible for Lola's death, and I assumed he hold Mary accountable too, plus can't forget his hatred from her since his arrival over Mary killing his son. 

[PinkRibbons]

1 hour ago, LoveTheGame said:

When all of this was playing out, I was wondering what Narcisse had planned for Mary. He was going through everyone he held responsible for Lola's death, and I assumed he hold Mary accountable too, plus can't forget his hatred from her since his arrival over Mary killing his son. 

I think Gideon's death was supposed to hit at both Liz and Mary on that front. Not to mention that she'll get trouble from John Knox over this; if he says she ordered this done to him she's in deep shit with her giant boys club of a nobility.

[dreamcatcher]

On 6/9/2017 at 5:28 AM, LoveTheGame said:

When all of this was playing out, I was wondering what Narcisse had planned for Mary. He was going through everyone he held responsible for Lola's death, and I assumed he hold Mary accountable too, plus can't forget his hatred from her since his arrival over Mary killing his son. 

How is Mary responsible for Lola's death?

[PinkRibbons]

7 hours ago, dreamcatcher said:

How is Mary responsible for Lola's death?

I would guess that if Mary does hold responsibility in Narcisse's mind, it would probably be because she was someone Lola trusted so much she was willing to kill on what she (Lola) thought was Mary's word, instead of going the self-preserving route. It's not Mary's fault that she inspired such loyalty, but if Narcisse felt that directly led to Lola's death, I could see him holding Mary partially responsible.

[LoveTheGame]

Exactly what PinkRibbons said. He used Gideon, to get to Elizabeth. Also he never once covered up the fact he hates Mary since his arrival to the show. He blamed Mary for Lola going to England in the first place etc. 

[dreamcatcher]

I don't think he blamed Mary for Lola's death. Lola was her subject so no it's not due to her being a great friend, if her Queen asked for anything at all,then she would be required to do so-because the opposite would be treason. And it wasn't Mary's letter, she had no idea. Ok he hates her but he can't blame her for that. And Lola left for England because of him not because of Mary.