S04.E01: Mary With Children

[b2H]

7 hours ago, Complexity said:

Oh, please tell me that was a typo! LOL! ?

Okay, I couldn't remember. Thanks for the info. ?

Many people don't realize their own issues. It's one reason for having a therapist—to help you see your own blind spots. When you grow up in an environment in which a certain behavior is allowed (and maybe even modeled by others), the behavior seems normal to you. It is very hard to see how it looks to others.

And, yeah, people must be internally motivated to change for therapy to be successful. That's because the therapist isn't the one who does the work; the patient does it. This is why mandated therapy is rarely very successful.

I remember she asked some really unimaginable questions. I believed her extreme ignorance and misinformation was scripted, but if not, then she may not have even had the capacity to comprehend any of her doctor's answers. But who knows. I would rather err on the side that she be given a repeat of information she already knew than to not get the information at all.

One of the most important aspects of good therapy is to form a therapeutic relationship with the patient. That means learning to empathize with their internal psychological world as they experience it (not as you believe it should be). By forming that relationship, the patient is more receptive to listening to new and opposing view points. Without that relationship, the patient will often become defensive, shut down, and stop therapy. Basically, you start where the patient is and then move them forward with you once you have earned their trust.

Further, what we may have seen was the counselor mirroring back what Sabrina said and felt to be sure she knew he understood her. This technique is very different from confronting a patient's cognitive distortion or irrational thinking.

I honestly have no idea what CPS required her to do. All the things you mentioned sound reasonable, but CPS is way understaffed and underfunded so I don't know how well they can follow up on her. I think they are more reactive (respond to reported violations) than proactive (make routine checkup visits). The way I envision it is they took the kids, gave her a paper with a list of requirements that she follow, took a minute or two to explain them to her and have her sign it, and let her walk away. She may be required to come in at regular intervals for drug tests and to show proof of her doing any of the requirements (e.g., letter from the counselor of the dates she came for therapy, lease proving she has a home, paycheck showing she's working). When her court date arrives, she either has met the requirements or not. If she has, she can then get her kids back. If not, they're gone. Whether she can have any more chances, I don't know.

But I agree with you completely that the ones who are suffering are her children.

I served on a jury in January in a case of parental rights.  Mom was totally uncooperative and couldn't understand why she couldn't have her kids back despite numerous violations.  CPS may be understaffed, but they do all they can to work with all the parties to ensure the best for the kids, including nights, weekends, and holidays.  No 9-5 job here, even for management.

[Evil Queen]

10 hours ago, Complexity said:

Oh, please tell me that was a typo! LOL! ?

I meant it as he wasn't quite an adult yet. I can see how it was read as one yr though LOL 

10 hours ago, Complexity said:

And, yeah, people must be internally motivated to change for therapy to be successful. That's because the therapist isn't the one who does the work; the patient does it. This is why mandated therapy is rarely very successful.

Agree. Sadly with someone like Jeremiah's issues and this being one he has had before....as well as arrested before for I don't see him changing. You can see he is smug about it too and feels he is superior to others when he is in that mode. I would bet with the latest arrest that he is only saying he is going to counseling because he knows it will be part of the deal with court since he has done it before. With Sabrina's situation, pretty much similar I am sure. They both totally have to want to be there and fix themselves or it won't ever work. Just like her drug issues. If she doesn't get to stay away from the ex and anyone else in that world or that can be harmful in some way then she will have to deal with the consequences of it all and learn to take responsibility for them as well. Which I don't see happening though with either of them any time soon.

10 hours ago, Complexity said:

I remember she asked some really unimaginable questions. I believed her extreme ignorance and misinformation was scripted, but if not, then she may not have even had the capacity to comprehend any of her doctor's answers. But who knows. I would rather err on the side that she be given a repeat of information she already knew than to not get the information at all.

I had figured it was scripted too. With the internet at one's fingertips there is no way she wouldn't know whatever she wanted about having a baby. I think the only thing that can not be fully explained to others is the pain that can come from it since we are all so different with that...or with some they take the easy way out of pain and get the epidural (that was a big fact no thanks from me). I have to say its one thing I have always hated about this show is how they try to make them look like they are stupid. Even after all this time now they still do it. I can't imagine they are that dumb. But I do agree that if her ignorance was not scripted it would be best to repeat for her. She isn't the brightest of the bunch from what we see. 

3 hours ago, b2H said:

I served on a jury in January in a case of parental rights.  Mom was totally uncooperative and couldn't understand why she couldn't have her kids back despite numerous violations.  CPS may be understaffed, but they do all they can to work with all the parties to ensure the best for the kids, including nights, weekends, and holidays.  No 9-5 job here, even for management.

I agree they are very understaffed. Sadly though they also have some staff that should never have gone into that line of work. I am not sure how it is in other states but where I am there have been many times over the years nothing was done even though they were called out over and over by neighbors, family or teachers to check on kids and the next thing you know the child is dead. There are now ones being charged over one child's death because it was so bad and there was enough evidence to have removed the child but they didn't. It seems like in the cases it happens or doesn't those parents are always going to be uncooperative and never get why they took the kids or want to take them. What kills me is those that have the kids taken and lose custody then go have another one. Which at some point ends up taken as well after awhile because they just repeat the same crap as before. 

I would bet that was touch to be on a jury like that and watch that mom be that way too. 

[b2H]

3 hours ago, Evil Queen said:

I would bet that was touch to be on a jury like that and watch that mom be that way too. 

It wasn't tough at all - our jurisdiction was very limited, but three days of testimony, primarily from social services as to the number of times and the variety of ways they attempted to get the mom past the barriers she was facing to getting back with her kids was what sold the jury unanimously on advising the judge she shouldn't get them back.

I would wonder if the circumstances with Sabrina would be very similar.

[Evil Queen]

5 hours ago, b2H said:

It wasn't tough at all - our jurisdiction was very limited, but three days of testimony, primarily from social services as to the number of times and the variety of ways they attempted to get the mom past the barriers she was facing to getting back with her kids was what sold the jury unanimously on advising the judge she shouldn't get them back.

I would wonder if the circumstances with Sabrina would be very similar.

It could be the similar for her. I wouldn't be surprised if there is so much more to the story and maybe she was spoken to and warned before this as well. Its always just so sad for the kids involved. There really is only so many times these people should get a chance to prove themselves. It sounds like social services was trying to help as they needed but only so much can be done in the end. I hope the ones in the case you were on the jury for ended up in a great loving home. Just as if it ends up this way for Sabrina her's do too. 

[aliya]

I don't watch this show, but the commercials have been driving me nuts.  Is the heavyset older woman still on a farm?

I live surrounded by Amish and Mennonites, including the largest Amish settlement in my state. I see them in the stores (which surprised me when I first moved here since I didn't know the Amish shopped at Walmart). And yes, I've seen a few plump older women, but I've never seen an Amish farm woman that big. I don't know how she does her work. From what I've seen on the commercials, she gambles? What's her story?

[JocelynCavanaugh]

Jeremiah is ridiculous. He's throwing a fit about how "no one is going to tell me I can't build on my own property," like it's just some arbitrary regulation to screw the working man. Uh, no, dumbass, the guy clearly explained to you that if you build on your crappy land your house could fall into a sinkhole with you in it. Your anger is misplaced, you little gopher-faced wife beater.

[Lady Edith]

Did I miss something?  Did Sabrina lose custody of the new baby?  

[Evil Queen]

1 hour ago, Lady Edith said:

Did I miss something?  Did Sabrina lose custody of the new baby?  

Answering this with something else you posted in another thread

[shoshanabeth]

On 5/7/2017 at 8:02 PM, JocelynCavanaugh said:

Jeremiah is ridiculous. He's throwing a fit about how "no one is going to tell me I can't build on my own property," like it's just some arbitrary regulation to screw the working man. Uh, no, dumbass, the guy clearly explained to you that if you build on your crappy land your house could fall into a sinkhole with you in it. Your anger is misplaced, you little gopher-faced wife beater.

I rather think his face looks like a smooshed chipmunk and that greasy balding hair is a tri[

[Arwen Evenstar]

On 5/19/2017 at 6:45 PM, shoshanabeth said:

I rather think his face looks like a smooshed chipmunk and that greasy balding hair is a tri[

That is totally the best description of Jeremiah, ever!  He's such a douche canoe.  I'm wondering what it is he's got that women just can't resist.  His first Mrs put up with all kinds of crap from him, Sabrina kept coming back for more, and Carmella can't seem to leave him either, no matter how violent or disrespectful he is.  Does he have mad bedroom skills? Is he hung like a horse?  Sorry for making you all reach for the brain bleach.

 

Basically, Carmela told police that he dumped hot coffee on her and leaves bruises on her on an almost daily basis.  Jeremiah claims, he's got a story to tell too.  If these two are mutually beating the crap out of one another, that's a bad scene all around.  Her kids are being subjected to this sort of home life? Were regular beatings so much a part of life in the cult that she would consider this normal?  Obviously, both she and Jeremiah are seriously messed up. 

[Evil Queen]

3 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

 Jeremiah claims, he's got a story to tell too

If he tells it and anyone buys it then I have a bridge to sell them. Of course he will have "his" story to tell on things too. He will play up those that think he is so great no matter what he does in hopes he can make money off these suckers. I know we don't know much about her but I am doubting she is beating the shit out of him. He has shown us how he is about women and what he thinks a woman's place is. I wouldn't be surprised if her just trying to stand up and say something that didn't agree would set him off. If she hit him ever I could see it out of being tired of being hit herself and as self defense. Yet he will tell a story that makes it look like he is the "victim" and how she is the "evil" abuser in things. Then how everything she said was lies and why. SMH 

4 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Obviously, both she and Jeremiah are seriously messed up. 

This right here is the truth.