Criminal Minds Analysis: Profile The Show

[ForeverAlone]

The conversation you are remembering was from season seven, while the headache story originated in season six.Now why they were thinking of writing Reid out in season six (if that was really the intent behind the headache story) is a bit odd, since his contract was not up for renegotiation until after season seven.

[zannej]

What I remember from interviews and the chats with the writers was that Erica said the headache story arose because they thought they were going to "lose Matthew" that season. One of the other writers confirmed that the headache story was supposed to be Reid's "swan song". He said the only satisfactory conclusion to the story would be for Reid to have a massive aneurism or to have schizophrenia or something that would take him out of the game and that was why they dropped the story.

 

Now, whether that was because Matthew was unhappy and wanted to leave or if someone else wanted him out, I'm not sure. I got the impression that he wanted to leave and move on to other things but agreed to stay to not screw things up even more for the remaining cast/writers after AJ and Paget were fired. Or maybe they thought that CBS was going to kick him out for some reason. Really not sure on that-- unless someone close to the show comes forward, we'll probably never know.

 

I remember the video-- season 7 and Janine said something like 'But Matthew is going to stay, right?" and Erica looked at him too and it was like both of them were trying to get him to agree to stay and he begrudgingly agreed because he has a hard time saying "No" sometimes.

 

I do think that Erica likes Matthew very much and Reid not so much. Although, maybe its not like/dislike with Reid so much as she doesn't "get" the character. Not very many of the writers really do get him.

 

Back to the statistics, its interesting that Garcia probably had the least screentime of the 3 but she had the most dialog.

[MCatry]

The conversation you are remembering was from season seven, while the headache story originated in season six.Now why they were thinking of writing Reid out in season six (if that was really the intent behind the headache story) is a bit odd, since his contract was not up for renegotiation until after season seven.

He had the six year contract with option for an extra year.

They paid him rather poorly for many years, since he was an unknown actor, and he was up to renegotiate the figures of his contract just after season six. Maybe that is why some people though he would try new things. Nevertheless it always bugged me that negotiations weren't even close when the headaches episode was filmed. Since it was episode #12, it means that this particular episode was filmed at least in October, but it was designed earlier than that. Lets say they had the script at least two months earlier. Why Messer was already planning a swan dance for the character so early, if she didn't even know what would happen the next year? I don't like her, but she is not stupid.

[ForeverAlone]

I think Matthew renegotiated a pay raise midway through season five or something, because the last several years, his contract renegotiation was offset from the rest of the cast by a year. His contract was not up after season six, but he negotiated a very nice pay raise after season seven.

[SSAHotchner]

I think most of the writers are intimidated by the character of Reid because they don't know how to write for a genius. You'd think that after all these years they'd hire someone who could get them the kind of information they need to write the dialogue for a character with Reid's background/education. They have medical consultants for doctor shows, scientists for The Big Bang Theory, etc. ION TV started over with season 1 tonight and I've been enjoying the superior writing and characterization.

[normasm]

Yeah, SSA I don't think they need consultants or anything new, they just need the original writers, who understood how to write a story about how people learn to read people, especially the most dangerous ones, and who suss out why they do the stuff they do.

[MCatry]

Being a genius doesn't mean you know more stuff. It implies a different way of thinking.

If a writer cannot write a genius character, its perfectly fine. If a writer needs the help of a consultant, its just perfectly fine.

What is not fine is a bunch of writers that know they cannot handle a character, and instead of looking for help they google for info and use Wikipedia.

This show used to have great writers that were able to come up with smart dialogues for every single one of the characters, that were able to insert the proper amount and type of humour a smart show needed.

Nowadays listening to Reid's lines sometimes it feels either like hearing a parrot that doesn't understand a thing of what he said, or he just says dumb things just to prove he is not 'normal'.

That is just bad writing, but also a bad attitude from those who were hired to do a job they obviously cannot handle.

[MCatry]

And that's just talking about Reid.

They managed to spoil the lines of everyone.

Take, for instance, Morgan's case.

He used to sound smart, informed and well-educated.

Now he is written as the stereotype of the action man who could win a place in SWAT, but wouldn't stand a chance at the BAU.

[MCatry]

The case of Garcia's lines doesn't need any further explanations for the members of this forum.

But I must say that as soon as Vangsness decided she would play Garcia as herself, the case was lost.

The examples that Qwerty so kindly posted recently about JJ lines show that the writers didn't bother looking into the character's background, nor they care about how to explain such a sudden amount of diverse knowledge could have been acquired while working at the pentagon in a communications position, unless her position demanded her to study about nanotechnology, pharmaceutical chemistry or sniper's statistics. I seriously doubt those could have been topics of JJ's choice to read before bedtime after taking care of her young child after working full time at the prestigious Pentagon, in the communications area.

Edited September 9, 2015 by MCatry

[MCatry]

Look at her during season one and two.

There she is, acting.

Look at her nowadays, in the show as well as in interviews.

There is no difference, at all.

[missmycat]

I didn't know about that, when did that decision happen? 

K.V. actually said in and interview not to long ago that she was being allowed to write a lot of Garcia's dialogue these days. And like MCatry has noted she is probably writing a lot of herself into the character.

[zannej]

While Garcia had the least screentime, I think she made up for it with dialog in some ways-- although I can't say it did her character any favors. Reid came out as the biggest loser with 2nd least screentime and least dialog.

 

I'm glad you like making charts and graphs. It's interesting to see it presented like that.

[amensisterfriend]

Here's a tougher version of our usual challenge: What if you could pick just FIVE episodes from the whole series to watch over and over? And which five episodes of the series would you most eagerly get rid of? 

[Old Dog]

To watch over and over:

Compulsion

Mosley Lane

Mr Scratch

LDSK

Uncanny Valley

(this was very hard!!)

 

 

To dump first:

200

The Forever People

Burn

Protection

The Black Queen

 

(This was much easier!)

 

Noooo! Somehow I have to squeeze in the unwatchable Hit/Run into my dump list! Can I have the seven I want to incinerate most?

Edited September 9, 2015 by Old Dog

[ForeverAlone]

Five forever viewing:

Lucky

True Genius

LDSK

Sex,Birth,Death

Minimal Loss

Dump forever:

200

Secrets and Lies

Protection

The Bittersweet Science

The Wheels on the Bus

Though my dump list could be much longer.

Edited September 9, 2015 by ForeverAlone

[amensisterfriend]

How can you guys narrow your favorites all the way down to five with such ease?! I bow to your far superior list making skills :) 

 

I suppose just saying that I'd keep 97% of S1-S4 along with Uncanny Valley, True Genius and a select few others from S5-S10 would be cheating just a tad...? 

[Old Dog]

How can you guys narrow your favorites all the way down to five with such ease?! I bow to your far superior list making skills :) 

 

I suppose just saying that I'd keep 97% of S1-S4 along with Uncanny Valley, True Genius and a select few others from S5-S10 would be cheating just a tad...? 

Believe me, the "keep" ones were hard! The dump list was easier - a lot of the recent seasons are just meh and blur into one another but the real stinkers stand out.

[Bookish Jen]

Some of the stuff I'm reading about Reid is giving me a serious case of the sadz.

 

Can I get a hug?

 

Please....

[Old Dog]

Some of the stuff I'm reading about Reid is giving me a serious case of the sadz.

 

Can I get a hug?

 

Please....

Here's a hug...

 

And here's another...

 

[Bookish Jen]

I'd love to know about this, MMC. Who would do that??

A total asshole.

[ForeverAlone]

I just looked at which were the top five episodes I rewatch the most. I could easily add more if possible. :)

[uppie]

I think I found the video where Messer and Janine look at Matthew to see if he would stay @ 

I'm not sure if this is the one, but it's the closest I've gotten to it. 

[Danielg342]

Some of the stuff I'm reading about Reid is giving me a serious case of the sadz.

Can I get a hug?

Please....

*hugs*

[Bookish Jen]

I think I found the video where Messer and Janine look at Matthew to see if he would stay @ 

I'm not sure if this is the one, but it's the closest I've gotten to it. 

Matthew looks so cute in spectacles.  Nice to know I'm not alone in having horrible eyesight.

[MCatry]

So…
Here are the figures for the first episode of Season 11.

 

Unsubs, 16 minutes and 35 seconds
Morgan, 14 minutes and 39 seconds
Rossi, 10 minutes and 31 seconds
Hotch, 9 minutes and 18 seconds
Garcia, 8 minutes and 50 seconds
Reid, 8 minutes and 21 seconds
Lewis, 3 minutes and 17 seconds
JJ, 53 seconds.

 

Interesting that Dr. Lewis got the same reasons why Hotch wanted to become a BAU member.

I will do the second tomorrow.

[normasm]

Qwerty, this is the perfect balance, I mean, look at that thing!

[missmycat]

I know it is still early but so far Breen doesn't seem to be much better than Janine was when it comes to not shoving so damn much of the unsub/guest stars down our throats.And yes we got some decent Reid in these first 2 episodes and hopefully for the remaining 4 leftover from AJ/JJ's maternity leave it will be the same.But I am in no ways ready to give Breen any sort of accolades where Reid's screen time is concerned. Because the true test well come when the "GOLDEN GIRL" returns to the show.

[Danielg342]

Qwerty, Rossi and Hotch should be flipped in the word count for “The Witness”.

[MCatry]

Season 11 Episode 2 word count, highest to lowest. 

Spencer: 931

Garcia: 674

Morgan: 599

Hotch: 413

Rossi: 427

Lewis: 440

Total words for the episode: 3484 = Higher than average compared to season 1

Total words for 'The Job' = 3819 = A lot higher than average compared to season 1

(Total words - Characters combined)

I think it's strange that unsub time goes up while team words also have gone up so far, but I only have season 1 to compare it to right now.

So far I think all the characters have been working with more lines (and more elaborated ones) than they had last season. The unsub time is now also prominent, but more scattered. In these two episodes the only long sequence without words was the chasing of the unsub. And it wasn't that long, compared with others we've seen in previous seasons.

When words and screen time are combined sometimes it looks like they match, and sometimes they don't. For instance, Morgan had a long scene interviewing the grenade-man, but all in all, he didnt say much. Reid can deliver fur dozens of words in a minute, so in the end both words and screen time figures look as if they were mismatched.

My only complain is the amount of words Garcia has, mainly because I cannot stand her exaggerated gesticulation and strident tone of voice she's been using these last years.

And I seriously hate her wardrobe. It 'hurts my eyes' since it seems to shine compared with the rest of the surroundings.

[MCatry]

Sitting in front of the screen, and watching one episode of season one, followed by another of season 10 or 11...

Shocking.

So many differences it just seems a different show.

[MCatry]

Season 11

Episode 2

 

  unsubs 21 minutes and 39 seconds

Reid 15 minutes and 17 seconds
Morgan 11 minutes and 8 seconds
Lewis 10 minutes and 53 seconds
Rossi 10 minutes and 6 seconds
Garcia 6 minutes and 47 seconds
Hotch 6 minutes and 29 seconds

[MCatry]

I just finished watching the latest episode.

 

Here are the figures. I am now calling the unsub time the 'guests' time, mostly to include both victims and unsubs, and possible unsubs,... well, whoever shows up just for one week.

 

guest stars 17 minutes and 59 seconds
Morgan 14 minutes and 52 seconds
Lewis 13 minutes and 17 seconds
Reid 9 minutes and 1 second
Hotch 7 minutes and 47 seconds
Rossi 6 minutes and 56 seconds
Garcia 6 minutes and 1 second

[MCatry]

MCatry, do you plan on doing any of the earlier episodes?

It could be fun.

I will start with that ASAP.

[MCatry]

Edit: Also, should In include Jordan Todd when the time comes?

I think you should include her, since she was around for a bunch of episodes, replacing one member of the cast.

[zannej]

Interesting to see that the chart amounts matched up somewhat with the order of the cast in the credits.

Edited October 17, 2015 by zannej

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Edit: Also, should In include Jordan Todd when the time comes?

I think even the unfortunate Seaver should be added.

[Guesswht]

So…

Here are the figures for the first episode of Season 11.

 

Unsubs, 16 minutes and 35 seconds

Morgan, 14 minutes and 39 seconds

Rossi, 10 minutes and 31 seconds

Hotch, 9 minutes and 18 seconds

Garcia, 8 minutes and 50 seconds

Reid, 8 minutes and 21 seconds

Lewis, 3 minutes and 17 seconds

JJ, 53 seconds.

 

Interesting that Dr. Lewis got the same reasons why Hotch wanted to become a BAU member.

I will do the second tomorrow.

That's so sad

[Droogie]

It seemed like Reid had more in those seasons, but I think it's due to the quality of the writing for him. The stories had substance, so everyone's dialog was relevant. I'd be content if the characters had similar division now, allowing for the replacements in the cast that have occurred. Hotch shouldn't be behind Morgan, though, but otherwise, that looks reasonable.

[normasm]

It seemed like Reid had more in those seasons, but I think it's due to the quality of the writing for him. The stories had substance, so everyone's dialog was relevant.

Wish so much TPTB could read your comment and take it to heart, Droogs. Guess they'd have to care.

[ForeverAlone]

We might have done this before, but it is always interesting to compare choices, especially when someone's favorite is on someone's hate list.

So compared to other lists, this one is fairly easy. What would be your top ten episodes BY SEASON, and what would be your bottom five BY SEASON.

I'll start with season one, and as always, in no particular order.

Top Ten

1. Extreme Aggressor

2. Plain Sight

3. LDSK

4. Derailed

5. The Fisher King, part one

6. The Popular Kids

7. Compulsion

8. Broken Mirror

9. A Real Rain

10. The Fox

Bottom Five

1. Secrets and Lies

2. Blood Hungry

3. Won't Get Fooled Again

4. Natural Born Killer

5. Machismo

[SSAHotchner]

Season 4 may be the 'best' season, and I do love Emily and Rossi, but whenever I rewatch S1 I realize that it's the season to which I'll always be most sentimentally attached. Ironically, I actually feel like the team members' professional roles, individual personalities and their relationships with one another were better defined back in that very first season than at any time since. It makes things a million times more realistic and interesting to me. For so many seasons now, they've all been on more or less the same blandly friendly terms. Back then, Reid/Morgan had a relationship that was clearly different from, say, Reid/Gideon or Morgan/Gideon, which was very different from Gideon/Hotch...etc. Elle was clearly closer to Reid and Morgan than to JJ, and while I'm usually all for closer TV female friendships, it felt realistic to me that in any group 1) some people just click far better than others and 2) I can see how Elle and JJ are two people who wouldn't really click. 

 

Beyond that, the profiling, psychological insights and overall sense of suspense were all just so great in S1, even when we knew the identity of the Unsub---there was a freshness and energy that I'm not sure they ever fully recaptured. There was effectively chilling darkness, but also wonderful moments of natural humor and joy...as opposed to painfully forced "we're FAMILY!" scenes :) 

 

There were a few definite clunkers, but even those have some rewatch-worthy moments. Oh, and the secret shipper in me adores Elle/Reid...but I swear that's only one of MANY reasons to adore that first season :) 

It's been a while since I've been on this thread, but I'm complete agreement with you. Season 1 is now my favorite. It hasn't always been, but it is now. Season 4 is great, but I love the writing and the characters in season 1. I'm always surprised when I watch a season 1 or early season 2 episode, by how much I really like Elle. I tend to forget her after Prentiss appears. 

[ReidFan]

the five I DO watch over and over:

Revelations

Amplification

Mr Scratch

LDSK

Memoriam

 

(with honorable mentions to Nelson's Sparrow, Magnum Opus and Alchemy, which I will put on, and ff through to the Reid scenes)

 

five I could and will do without:

 

200

To Hell

...and Back

The Eyes Have it

most of the episodes with Seaver in them

 

:)

[SSAHotchner]

My favorites from seasons 1-4 The are mostly in order of when they aired:

 

1. Extreme Aggressor

2. LDSK

3. Natural Born Killer

4.The Fisher King (1&2)

5. The Big Game/Revelation

6. Penelope

7. Lucky

8. Damaged

9. In Name and Blood

10. Pleasure is My Business

11.The Angel Maker

12. Masterpiece

13.  Pickup

14.  Zoe's Reprise

15. The Instincts/Memoriam

 

It may be cheating, but I consider those double episodes as one.

And while it was tough to limit this list to 15, it was tough to come up with 15 episodes from the remaining seasons. 

Seasons 5-10

1. Faceless Nameless

2. 100

3. Uncanny Valley

4. The Internet is Forever

5. Hanley Waters

6. Unknown Subject

7. True Genius

8. Foundation

9. Self Fulfilling Prophecy

10. Final Shot

11. Gabby

12. The Edge of Winter

13. Mr. Scratch

14. The Caller

15. Angels & Demons

And I liked Boxed in ONLY for the scenes with Hotch and Hotch & Jack. 

 

 

[ReidFan]

oh damn! and under 'favourite ones you'll watch over and over' I missed "Conflicted" and "Elephant's Memory"   and "Rock Creek Park" (just for the Reid & Loker scenes)

[secnarf]

Season 11's % so far (episode 1-5) from most to least.

Morgan: 20%

Spencer: 19%

Garcia: 17.9%

Hotch: 14.4%

Rossi: 14.3%

Tara: 13.9%

JJ: 0.4%

 

That's interesting, I definitely feel like there's been more Tara than that - though I guess that's because certain episodes barely show her, and some feature her more heavily. I'm surprised by Garcia and Morgan as well.

[amensisterfriend]

If you guys could keep just 3-5 episodes from S1, S2, S3, S4, and S5, which 3-5 from each season would you pick?! I'm feeling the need to reminisce on the show's highlights :) 

[ForeverAlone]

Season 1:

Extreme Aggressor

LDSK

Plain Sight

Derailed

The Popular Kids

 

Season 2:

Sex, Birth and Death

No Way Out

The Boogeyman

The Last Word

Aftermath

 

 

Season 3:

Lucky

Seven Seconds

Birthright

Limelight

Scared to Death

 

Season 4:

Minimal Loss

Omnivore

The Angel Maker

Cold Comfort

Zoe's Reprise

 

Season 5:

The Uncanny Valley

Haunted

The Eyes Have It

Mosley Lane

Risky Business

Edited November 7, 2015 by ForeverAlone

[amensisterfriend]

That is a really awesome list, FA...it looks a lot like the marathon I plan to treat myself to this weekend! I'm sure my list will have a lot of the same entries: 

 

S1:

 

Extreme Aggressor 

Compulsion 

Broken Mirror (can you tell I'm just a little bit fond of the very first stretch of the series?!)

Derailed 

A Real Rain 

 

(Though at least 11 more could easily have made this list!) 

 

S2:

 

Fisher King Part II

Perfect Storm 

The Boogeyman

Empty Planet 

Sex Birth and Death 

 

S3:

 

Scared to Death 

Identity 

3rd Life

Birthright 

Damaged 

 

S4:

 

Angel Maker 

The Instincts/Memoriam (Can we pretend I'm not cheating by counting these as one?!)

Masterpiece

Omnivore

Conflicted 

 

S5:

 

Haunted 

Retaliation 

The Uncanny Valley 

Risky Business 

Mosley Lane 

 

Random observations:

 

These are just the episodes I happen to be most attached to and find myself wanting to rewatch the most often, which are not always the ones I objectively think are the show's best...hence the exclusion of episodes like 100. 

 

There are obvious exceptions, but overall I seem to prefer the first half of most seasons to the second. 

 

For some reason I tend not to love rewatching most of the 'team member and/or team member's loved ones in peril' episodes, like Revelations, 100, etc. Maybe they just stress me out?! 

 

I've grown to like S5 a lot more than when I first saw it and even had trouble narrowing down my list of S5 favorites. S1 and S4 were still the hardest for me to narrow down, though. 

[ForeverAlone]

Wow! Tara had more words than the next two cast members combined. 

[ForeverAlone]

Reid consistently gets a fair amount of WORDS, because of his rambling and exposition dump. But that definitely hasn't translated into quality focus in terms of character development. If Matthew was going to leave the show, I would HOPE they would write a quality storyline for him.