Unspoiled Speculation: Well, I DIDN'T Read It In A Book

[Constantinople]

There's a speculation thread for the Unsullied and Fancy Pants Sam Tarly type Book Walkers.

 

We know how to handle books in this thread

http://i.imgur.com/nyiyik2.gif

 

But there's no speculation for the Davosi, before Davos sold out and went literate on us.  None until now

 

Intended for speculation that is both serious (this could be true) and whimsical (this amuses me to think its true regardless of its probability).

 

To start, here's an example of each

 

Serious:
In the first 3 episodes of Season 4 we've seen that Bolton sent Locke and some of his men North to the Wall to see if Bran & Rickon are at the Wall with their brother Jon.  Currently, unbeknowst to the Locke, there's group of Wildlings, including the Thenns, in between Locke and the Wall.

 

I'm not saying the Handslayer will become Thenn chow, but it's within the realm of possibility.  Or that Mance must abandon his plan to attack the Wall from both sides, or use the Wildlings south of the Wall as a diversion, because the Wildlings south of the Wall are largely killed or disabled in a skirmish with Locke's men.

 

Whimsical:
The Hound is really a Stark, not a Clegane

• Hounds / Direwolves: You say tomato, I say tomahto
• Lives by a code, albeit one that's a fixer-upper.
• Keeps defending the Stark girls.

[dramachick]

The Davosi.  I love it. 

 

I'd really like to know what's going on with Rickon and Osha, but it seems like they've been delegated to the off-screen contingency for this season since I've seen neither hide nor hair of them in promo's or previews.

 

Rickon and Osha are supposed to have gone to the Umbers who must know by now that Robb is dead and that Roose Bolton is the new warden of the north.  If I'm one of them I'm thinking: " I'm supposed to swear loyalty to flayer-in-chief Roose Bolton at the Dreadfort?  I don't think so."  I would love for Rickon's story line to show us the prevailing attitude of these lords, especially the Umbers who would have Rickon in their custody and therefore a lot of political capital.  The raven-grams must be flying fast and furiously about what happened at the Red Wedding because they all lost family members in the massacre.  But Roose Bolton is alive?  And prospering?  I can't believe that they're all OK with that.

 

I continue to have undying love for Robb Stark, and I want my vengeance.

[Meredith Quill]

I can't speculate in here, but I suspect it will be good fun if you can,...gets comfy, dips & chips at the ready...let the spectating begin!

[Colored Francie]

Woot! SO EXCITING! I'm proud to be a Davosi. My burning questions:

-Where does Bran now know he has to go (based on that crazy vision)? I'm wondering if it's going to shock us all, and NOT be north of the Wall. What if he decides he's got to go to King's Landing?

-I'm also hoping that Locke takes long enough on his hunt that he actually happens upon the attack on Castle Black and lends his hand to its defense (all the while planning to murder Jon Snow and the boys after it's over)*

-Of course, there's no way that Tywin would allow Tyrion (a LANNISTUH!) to be executed for Joffrey's murder, right? Right?!

 

*OK, sorry, that wasn't a question.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Colored Francie

[ParadoxLost]

I seriously want some direwolves reunited just so they can savage some Freys and Lannisters.  is that boodthirsty of me?

Edited April 26, 2014 by ParadoxLost

[TooMuchCoffee]

 I'm excited to have a safe place and a label!

We are the k-nig-hts that go .... Hodor?

[TooMuchCoffee]

Woot! SO EXCITING! I'm proud to be a Davosi. My burning questions:

-Where does Bran now know he has to go (based on that crazy vision)? I'm wondering if it's going to shock us all, and NOT be north of the Wall. What if he decides he's got to go to King's Landing?

-I'm also hoping that Locke takes long enough on his hunt that he actually happens upon the attack on Castle Black and lends his hand to its defense (all the while planning to murder Jon Snow and the boys after it's over)*

-Of course, there's no way that Tywin would allow Tyrion (a LANNISTUH!) to be executed for Joffrey's murder, right? Right?!

 

*OK, sorry, that wasn't a question.

 

We can barely read in here so it's okay if punctuation is still a bit sketchy.

-  I thought the Tree told Bran specifically North.  If so, will we soon see him reunited with Jon? (Assuming Jon also goes North of the wall. Will he?)

- I'd like to see Locke lend both of his hands to the Thenns.

- I think Tyrion will be okay.  I kind of agree that Tywin won't let him be killed. Oberyn might even be the one to vote in Tyrion's favor.  Also, will Tommen have any real power? He seems to like his uncle.  

[ParadoxLost]

I tend to think sending Bran North of the Wall is putting distance between him and Jon because no Starks shall ever cross paths.  I'm getting wise to this show.

 

I think Bran going North is going to move him away from the Wilding/Watcher conflict and put him in the path of the White Walkers since we haven't seen them around in a while.  Although I thought it was funny that the vision was all "look for me under the tree"  then got blunt and said North.  I would totally worry that to death.  Do I go North?  But I'm in the North?  I saw snow, maybe I'm going to the Wall to find Jon first?  I saw my fall, maybe the voice meant Winterfell?  They should have either left it at follow the bird with three eyes to the next weird tree or had the voice say "look for me under the tree.  West."  No wait, Westeros.  "East."

 

So the snow falling on the Iron Throne seemed like a fairly obvious foreshadowing that Jon will go after the Iron Throne at some point.

Edited April 26, 2014 by ParadoxLost

[TooMuchCoffee]

I tend to think sending Bran North of the Wall is putting distance between him and Jon because no Starks shall ever cross paths.  I'm getting wise to this show.

 

I think Bran going North is going to move him away from the Wilding/Watcher conflict and put him in the path of the White Walkers since we haven't seen them around in a while.  

 

If the "No Starks shall ever cross paths" rule is true then either Sansa or Arya can't reach the Aerie. My money would be on Arya and the Hound being sidetracked.  On the other hand, imagine the fun to be had with the characters at the Aerie.  I wouldn't mind hearing what no-nonsense Arya has to say to her whacko cousin.

 

I want to know more about the origins of the White Walkers.  I wonder if Bran will be able to communicate with them.

........

 

Did anyone die last week?  Oh yeah, the necklace guy. A surprise, but relatively minor.  Who is next?  

[CletusMusashi]

Is it Aerie or Eyrie? Sounds more "airy," and that would match Jon Aeryn's name, but an eyrie is an eagle's nest; I thought that was what they were calling it. I'm sure I saw it spelled right in closed captions back in Season 1, but I can't remember which it was for sure. And nowadays... let's just say the "channels" I watch new episodes on do not have a captioning option.

Either way, I think the trip there is going to be interesting, because the hill tribes are back home and presumably they are waging war against the Ear-ache or whatever it's called with all those weapons that Tywin supposedly paid them with when Tyrion was in a coma. So what do you say to them? "Hi, we're here to visit the insane family you're at war with?" "Hi, I'm the niece of your enemy; please don't take me hostage?" Tyrion can talk his way through a lot of situations that the Hound can't, simply because he is not as immediate a threat.

The best I can think to say would be something like "Hey, I remember you. We fought at King's Landing together. Where is who going? Um, nowhere nearby. No, you don't have to come along with us; we'll be fine... hey, you know what I heard? There's a haberdasher in Dorne that just got a new shipment of water buffalo horns, first come first served!"

Edited April 27, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[TooMuchCoffee]

Aerie is an alternate spelling of eyrie and, yes, it is the nest of a bird of prey.  I don't know how the show spells it.  I spell it whichever way fits the crossword puzzle I'm doing. 

[ParadoxLost]

I believe the show spells it Eyrie.

[Mya Stone]

It's spelled the Eyrie. :)

[TooMuchCoffee]

ParadoxLost - I think the No Starks crossing paths rule is about to be broken.

[AimingforYoko]

So the WhiteWalkers beget the Wights and whatever the hell that thing at the end of Oathbreaker is begets the WhiteWalkers. Does it have a boss?

[dramachick]

ParadoxLost - I think the No Starks crossing paths rule is about to be broken.

I hope so.

[TooMuchCoffee]

So the WhiteWalkers beget the Wights and whatever the hell that thing at the end of Oathbreaker is begets the WhiteWalkers. Does it have a boss?

 

That thing seemed pretty powerful without any extra help. 

[dramachick]

I'm confused about the white walkers and zombies.  Have we seen that frozen creature with the horns before?  I recognized the un-dead horse from last season when the long-haired white walker was riding him, but I don't remember him having any horns.  I wonder how long it takes a baby zombie to grow up.

[CletusMusashi]

I think Horny is new. If not, I certainly haven't noticed the horns before.

The growth factor is a complete mystery. Maybe they grow quickly by eating people? Maybe only babies can be turned, but after that they can jump into a new body? Or, considering how long it's been since the last problem with these guys, maybe they have an insanely long maturation cycle, kind of like uberlocusts. In that case, these would the babies who were turned last time, rising up to turn a bunch of babies into more White Walkers for the next far future cycle.

Edited April 28, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[TooMuchCoffee]

Earworm of the day:  Ice, Ice Baby

[Constantinople]

I tend to think sending Bran North of the Wall is putting distance between him and Jon because no Starks shall ever cross paths.  I'm getting wise to this show.

 

 

ParadoxLost - I think the No Starks crossing paths rule is about to be broken.

 

 

I hope so.

I hope not.

What Starks therefore the Old Gods have ripped asunder, let no one put together

So far whenever Starks have reunited, one or more of them has died, violently

Ned & Catelyn reunited in Littlefinger's brothel: Ned executed and Catelyn murdered in the Red Wedding

After Ned was arrested, Ned, Sansa & Arya were "reunited" outside the Sept of Baelor for Ned's judgment: Joffrey surprised everyone by executing Ned instead of sending him to the Wall (even if Arya doesn't count, both Sansa and Ned were on the dais).

Catelyn & Robb reunited at Robb's camp not once but twice (first after Catelyn returned from King's Landing, and a second time after returning from her visit to Renly's camp): Both murdered at the Red Wedding, one for each time they were reunited.

If I recall correctly, Bran/Rickon knew that Jon was outside of the tower they were hiding in, but they didn't actually meet, so I'm hoping that doesn't count as "reuniting"

Arya got "this close" to reuniting with Robb & Catelyn at the Twins. Fortunately, she was fashionably late to the part, or she'd be dead.

Therefore, Arya and Sansa reuniting at the Eyrie, or Jon rescuing Bran from the Night's Watch mutineers, could be bad news

[JTMacc99]

So far whenever Starks have reunited, one or more of them has died, violently...

Therefore, Arya and Sansa reuniting at the Eyrie, or Jon rescuing Bran from the Night's Watch mutineers, could be bad news

As long as it doesn't happen in episode 9, I think there's a chance they might survive a reunion.

 

And let's be fair, there isn't really a lot of good news when it comes to the Starks in any situation although it does seem that when you add more than one of them to the situation, you find that 2+2>4.

 

Heck, even reuniting two of the wolves ended up being terrible news.

 

Since we seem to be heading for some reunions, I'll do some some speculating. I'm going to say that if Jon Snow finds Bran, even though he's bringing death right to him in the form of Locke, that the two of them come out of it alive. I'm not sure about the wolves, but I think those two live because it is pretty obvious that one or both of them should get surprised by known killer Locke.

 

On the other hand, if we bring Sansa and Arya together, I would be watching the rest of the episodes through a gap in my fingers as I covered my eyes. That is being set up as a happy reunion, so naturally, one or both of them will probably die horribly. 

 

Stupid show.

[TooMuchCoffee]

Stay on the positive side!  Maybe now that we're approaching the middle of the saga the Stark luck will change.  (Did I just jinx them?)

 

I'm going to remain unspoiled but, for the first time, I am tempted to read book three.  Just tempted mind you. 

[ParadoxLost]

Even though I posited that no Starks shall ever be reunited, I do think should it happen that Bran and Jon would survive.  As much as "they" always say no one is safe and the heroes can be killed as easily or more easily than anyone, they aren't going to kill Jon.  They can kill Jon.  They can kill Rob.  They aren't going to take out both Jon and Robb.  Not going to happen. If they suddenly cast a hot twenty something guy in a lead role, I'll start worrying.

 

Bran has the vision thing going for him, so he's fine.  But I don't preclude Bran having some Teflon effect that will result in a boomerang to the Stark he was last with and taking out Rickon even though they've gone separate ways.

 

I'll believe there won't be some last minute near miss when I see it.

[TooMuchCoffee]

It occurred to me that Brienne and Podrick could meet up with Arya and the Hound on the road. Wouldn't it be logical to look for Sansa at her aunt's house?  Sansa and LF are coming by sea so I think they will make it to the Eyrie without taking any of the same roads.  

A scene with Brienne, Arya, Hound and Podrick could be fun. 

 

[CletusMusashi]

Scene schmeen. I want a whole episode of that.

[JTMacc99]

Hee! Brienne and The Hound... That story just writes itself.

[Isazouzi]

Hee! Brienne and The Hound... That story just writes itself.

 

That would be amazing. I don't know if she's a match for him in combat, but I'd love to see the Hound and Arya's faces on meeting that giant knight woman.

 

 

So the snow falling on the Iron Throne seemed like a fairly obvious foreshadowing that Jon will go after the Iron Throne at some point.

 

It never even crossed my mind to see the snow as a metaphor for Jon Snow! But what right does he have? He's a bastard AND a member of the Nights Watch. Unless there's a revolution and all the rules of the 7 kingdoms are changed, Jon has no claim to any title, let alone the Iron throne.

 

The first time we've seen the snow on the Iron Throne in Dany's vision, I actually thought it was ashes, suggesting dragons and the burning of King's Landing. But yeah, it's probably snow, because Winter is coming, or so I've heard. ;-)

[JTMacc99]

That would be amazing. I don't know if she's a match for him in combat, but I'd love to see the Hound and Arya's faces on meeting that giant knight woman.

Forget combat. I think they'd make a nice couple. Plus, between the two of them I think they could take The Mountain.

 

 

Also, I want to see the visual of Arya standing next to them. She'll have to change her name to Pippin and wax poetic about The Shire.

 

 

 

But I'm completely off the topic I wanted to discuss.

 

When do we think Shae shows up again, and in what capacity? I simply can't imagine that she's gone forever, but I don't have any sound theories on how we get her back. Does she get caught, and by killing her, at least Cersei gets to hurt Tyrion even if he is found not guilty? Does she provide safe haven for Tyrion at some point? Is she a person with far more connections than those of the whore we were led to believe she is? 

 

I just sort of came up with that last one, but I like it a lot. When Oberyn showed up, they made a big deal out of how where he comes from, people with the last name Sand can make something of themselves. Wasn't Shea from either the same place as Oberyn or at least one like it? I'd look it up, but I'm liable to spoil myself. Damn internet doesn't have No Spoilers tags on it.

Edited April 29, 2014 by JTMacc99

[Isazouzi]

 

Forget combat. I think they'd make a nice couple.

 

Nooooooo, she's supposed to end up with Jaimie! When he deserves her, which he will, eventually. What? A girl can dream!

 

 

When do we think Shae shows up again, and in what capacity? I simply can't imagine that she's gone forever, but I don't have any sound theories on how we get her back. Does she get caught, and by killing her, at least Cersei gets to hurt Tyrion even if he is found not guilty? Does she provide safe haven for Tyrion at some point? Is she a person with far more connections than those of the whore we were led to believe she is?

 

I just sort of came up with that last one, but I like it a lot. When Oberyn showed up, they made a big deal out of how where he comes from, people with the last name Sand can make something of themselves. Wasn't Shea from either the same place as Oberyn or at least one like it? I'd look it up, but I'm liable to spoil myself. Damn internet doesn't have No Spoilers tags on it.

 

I think Shae is from Volantis, or at least she came to Westeros by way of Volantis. Dorne, Oberyn's kingdom, is in Westeros. I don't remember where the boat was supposed to take her, though. Back to Volantis?

Anyway I agree with you, I think and hope we'll see her again. I'm instantly suspicious when anyone says they're from Essos, like Varys or Shae. Maybe I just give them too much credit, but they always seem like they know more than what they let on. I could see Shae trying to organize something to help Tyrion or at least come back to King's Landing. She's quite stubborn.

[Constantinople]

So the snow falling on the Iron Throne seemed like a fairly obvious foreshadowing that Jon will go after the Iron Throne at some point.

Or Ramsay & Daenerys become an item after she takes back what is hers with fire and blood.

Ramsay would totally "fall" for a girl who either burns people to death, crucifies them or, to mix things up, locks them in an air tight vault with no food or water.

[Constantinople]

I'm not saying Daenerys is a White Walker.

 

I'm just saying, look at the similarities.

 

The "Parent of White Walkers", the white Walker with horns on its head, which suggests a crown
The "Mother of Dragons", Daenerys calls herself Queen and Khaleesi

 

White Walkers have white hair
Daenerys has platinum blond hair (same diff as they used to say)

 

White Walkers' eyes are White Walker blue
Daenerys's dress is pretty damn close to White Walker blue (I can't really tell about her eyes though)

 

White Walkers are impervious to extreme (cold) temperature
Daenerys is impervious to extreme (hot) temperatures

 

White walkers (Craster edition) are the product of incest
The Targaryens are one big incestous family tree

[TooMuchCoffee]

I'm not saying Daenerys is a White Walker.

 

I'm just saying, look at the similarities.

 

The "Parent of White Walkers", the white Walker with horns on its head, which suggests a crown

The "Mother of Dragons", Daenerys calls herself Queen and Khaleesi

 

White Walkers have white hair

Daenerys has platinum blond hair (same diff as they used to say)

 

White Walkers' eyes are White Walker blue

Daenerys's dress is pretty damn close to White Walker blue (I can't really tell about her eyes though)

 

White Walkers are impervious to extreme (cold) temperature

Daenerys is impervious to extreme (hot) temperatures

 

White walkers (Craster edition) are the product of incest

The Targaryens are one big incestous family tree

 

Hmmmm...... sort of like mirror images?  There are certainly a lot of parallels.  

There is some good WW discussion in the Oathbreaker episode thread.  It would be nice to pull it over here.

 

Speaking of Words and Prophecies... "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell."   What happens if there isn't (like now)?  Does winter arrive more quickly?  

 

 

Edited April 30, 2014 by TooMuchCoffee

[Isazouzi]

Hmmmm...... sort of like mirror images?  There are certainly a lot of parallels.  

There is some good WW discussion in the Oathbreaker episode thread.  It would be nice to pull it over here.

 

Speaking of Words and Prophecies... "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell."   What happens if there isn't (like now)?  Does winter arrive more quickly?  

 

Well, isn't the whole saga called "A song of fire and ice"? I'd say WW and dragons (and Dany) are natural opponents. Maybe born of the same magic? Aren't the Targaryens a very old family? They almost seem like a different species (not the crazy degenerate ones, but you know what I mean) : they have mysterious powers, they're able to master magical creatures, they speak a very old language and they come from, where exactly? Valyria?

 

As for "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell.", I never took it as a prophecy, more as "we're the ruling family in the North, which is a crazy place full of savages, so one of us should always be there to act as a figure of authority, or else, people will try to take Winterfell away from us." Just like people will try to take the Iron Throne if there's no one sitting on it. Granted, people will try regardless. And Bran being the only Stark left in Winterfell (Rickon doens't count) didn't help. But maybe you're right, maybe the annihilation of the Stark family and the rise of the WW isn't a coincidence. I don't think so, but who knows what's linked and what's not? The Starks did find the direwolves. Does it make them special? We know that Bran is special...

 

Also, what I would really want to know is how Craster entered this "contract" with the WW. I imagine he's always left his male newborns in the cold anyway, and maybe the WW took them without him knowing at first. But it seemed it was a deliberate exchange: we take your baby, we leave you alone.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Isazouzi

[Constantinople]

Well, isn't the whole saga called "A song of fire and ice"?

True, but then how many actual songs have we heard?

1. The god awful one about Robert & Cersei by that god awful troubadour. I'm not usually pro-tongue removal, but in this case, I think Joffrey did the realm a solid

2. The Rains of Castamere - This is one is in such heavy rotation that even the Lannister king got sick of hearing it

3. The Bear & the Blond Chick - as you can see, I forgot the exact title

 

I'd say WW and dragons (and Dany) are natural opponents.

Or they'll make a deal to split the world between them.

Walkers get Westeros. Dany gets Essos.

At the rate Daenerys Slothborn, Maker of Molasses & Lord of the Snail Trail is going, that's what will happen anyway.

 

As for "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell.", I never took it as a prophecy, more as "we're the ruling family in the North, which is a crazy place full of savages, so one of us should always be there to act as a figure of authority, or else, people will try to take Winterfell away from us."

I took it the same way. That whole sense of fulfiling one's duty to the people you rule. Make sure someone covers for you while you're out, on vacation, getting your head chopped off, etc.

I suppose Benjen was the Stark in Winterfell when Ned rebelled against the Mad King.

[CletusMusashi]

Hey, I liked that Lion and Boar song!

I think Joffrey did, too, but he wasn't going to let a little thing like that get in the way of torturing somebody.

And speaking of that event... did we ever get a decisive answer as to who was behind Robert's "accident?" For a long time I just naturally assumed it was Cersei, but when she was telling off Jaime for being selfish and not magically teleporting out of prison to be with her, she listed Robert's sudden death as one of the things that she was stressed out about. Oh, I don't take that to mean she actually cared about the big oaf, but it does sort of indicate that she was not the one behind it.

So... Littlefinger? I figure Littlefinger is behind everything else, he might as well be behind this one too. Kill Robert, and it's a lot easier to kill Ned. Kill Ned, and of course Catelyn will marry you... first you might have to invent a railroad track to tie her to, but he probably had a whole 'nother plot going with some inventors in Dorne to take care of that.

[TooMuchCoffee]

 

So... Littlefinger? I figure Littlefinger is behind everything else, he might as well be behind this one too. Kill Robert, and it's a lot easier to kill Ned. Kill Ned, and of course Catelyn will marry you... first you might have to invent a railroad track to tie her to, but he probably had a whole 'nother plot going with some inventors in Dorne to take care of that.

 

I wonder if his buddy Lord Varys is in on the plot(s) as well. 

[JTMacc99]

So, shall we take bets on who is going through the hole in the floor? (The foreshadowing on this show is sometimes not very subtle, so at this point I am assuming it is not a question of if somebody is going through the floor, it is a question of who, and how many.)

 

I'm hoping it's the kid, because let's be serious here for a second, even if proper counseling existed in this world, I don't think there could be enough of it to turn him into an adult who wouldn't do a great deal of harm during the course of his life. Yeesh.

 

And if he goes through the hole, there's an excellent chance it will be a daily double with somebody either getting tossed in after him or possibly crazy mom going willingly.

[TooMuchCoffee]

Yep.  It's way too obvious with the gaping hole in the floor.  As long as it isn't Sansa I don't care who falls in.  And it's unlikely to be Littlefinger because he's like a cockroach - surviving until the bitter end. Maybe someone who isn't there yet will take the plunge.  

 

And I guess we might not have an Arya/Hound + Pod/Brienne meet up since Brienne announced they are headed to Castle Black.  I'm okay with Brienne helping defend the Wall and laying into some Thenns. 

Edited May 5, 2014 by TooMuchCoffee

[JTMacc99]

I think Sansa is even less likely than Littlefinger. Of course, making her marry Robin might be enough to make her jump through it.

[Constantinople]

Now I'm wondering if Littlefinger is Lord Robin's father.

 

If Lysa is going to copy Cersei, she may as well go whole hog.

[Mz Anthrope]

So, shall we take bets on who is going through the hole in the floor? (The foreshadowing on this show is sometimes not very subtle, so at this point I am assuming it is not a question of if somebody is going through the floor, it is a question of who, and how many.).

 

I have the sinking feeling (no pun intended) that it will be the 'little dove' Sansa.  And she may do it by her own hand/doing.  I can see her feeling like there is ever going to be an escape for her - all the guards, the Mental FuckUp Aunt, LF and now... hearing she's to marry TeatSucker?   I'd like it to be Littlefinger, but I'd rather Ramsey got a hold of him and tortured him for information.

[JTMacc99]

Oof. "Little Dove".

 

I missed that symbolism.  Crap.

 

And on the topic of foreshadowing, I guess "A Lannister always pays his debts" has taken on a new meaning for us.

Edited May 5, 2014 by JTMacc99

[Constantinople]

So, shall we take bets on who is going through the hole in the floor? (The foreshadowing on this show is sometimes not very subtle, so at this point I am assuming it is not a question of if somebody is going through the floor, it is a question of who, and how many.)

 

 

I have the sinking feeling (no pun intended) that it will be the 'little dove' Sansa.  And she may do it by her own hand/doing.  I can see her feeling like there is ever going to be an escape for her - all the guards, the Mental FuckUp Aunt, LF and now... hearing she's to marry TeatSucker?   I'd like it to be Littlefinger, but I'd rather Ramsey got a hold of him and tortured him for information.

 

 

Oof. "Little Dove".

 

I missed that symbolism.  Crap.

Joffrey killed actual doves when he sliced open his wedding pie with his Valyrian steel sword, but now he's dead and Sansa is still alive, so who knows about the foreshadowing. Besides, doves fly, just like the ones that flew away that Joffrey didn't kill.

Another way to look at it is the Moon Door is the asshole of the Eyrie. In that case, Sansa won't be the shift going down that hole.

All bets are off, however, if Arya and Sansa reunite at the Eyrie.

[JTMacc99]

All bets are off, however, if Arya and Sansa reunite at the Eyrie.

Well, you know what? Armor and a big fucking sword won't save a man who falls through a hole in the floor.

 

Of course, the Hound is pretty big. He might not fit.

[dramachick]

I have to re-watch some episodes from season one to really get a handle on what's going on.

 

Did Varys know that Littlefinger was pulling the strings when he was trying to help Ned in the dungeon?  I wonder if Littlefinger manipulated stupid Joffrey into taking Ned's head against Cersei's wishes.

 

Now that Littlefinger's hand has been revealed, I hope we get to see what Varys has been working on.

[Isazouzi]

 

Besides, doves fly, just like the ones that flew away that Joffrey didn't kill.

 

Tell that to the glass dove that LF gave to Robin and that he threw though the Moon Door... (It was a dove, right? Well, it was a bird anyway.)

 

 

Did Varys know that Littlefinger was pulling the strings when he was trying to help Ned in the dungeon?

 

That's a good question. I think we'd need to rewatch the conversation LF and Varys had in season something, where they both made it clear that they knew what the other one was scheming. Personally, I think Varys knows everything, or that he at least suspects everything and that he tries to foil LF's plans where he can and where he deems it necessary for the good of the realm. Maybe I give him too much credit but I love Varys.

 

Regarding who's going to say hello and goodbye to the Moon Door, I say crazy Lyssa.

[AimingforYoko]

 

Regarding who's going to say hello and goodbye to the Moon Door, I say crazy Lyssa.

I agree. She's going to make Littlefinger choose between her and Sansa and it's creepily obvious who the winner in that outcome is.

[Constantinople]

Prince Oberyn's poem

 

Violets are blue

Roses are red

Counting the days

Till the Mountain is dead.

[Conan Troutman]

And speaking of that event... did we ever get a decisive answer as to who was behind Robert's "accident?" For a long time I just naturally assumed it was Cersei, but when she was telling off Jaime for being selfish and not magically teleporting out of prison to be with her, she listed Robert's sudden death as one of the things that she was stressed out about. Oh, I don't take that to mean she actually cared about the big oaf, but it does sort of indicate that she was not the one behind it.

So... Littlefinger? I figure Littlefinger is behind everything else, he might as well be behind this one too. Kill Robert, and it's a lot easier to kill Ned. Kill Ned, and of course Catelyn will marry you... first you might have to invent a railroad track to tie her to, but he probably had a whole 'nother plot going with some inventors in Dorne to take care of that.

I think it was that Lannister squire (Lancel?) who, of course, fucked Cersei, who gave him a poisoned wine (what's with all that poisoned wine, btw?) so he wouldn't be quite in control when he took on that boar. To me it implies that Cersei was behind it. But maybe LF was on board and got the poison in the first place, who knows?

 

Now I'm wondering if Littlefinger is Lord Robin's father.

If Lysa is going to copy Cersei, she may as well go whole hog.

Just wrote that in the episode thread: Yeah, I absolutely do think so.

 

I wonder if Littlefinger manipulated stupid Joffrey into taking Ned's head against Cersei's wishes.

Would make sense to me. Maybe he didn't deem it as necessary, but why not make sure?

 

 

A question regarding Bran: Didn't Jojen say at some point (relatively early after his introduction), when Bran asked about the three-eyed raven "The raven is you"? If so, is Bran trying to find himself there? Part of himself? Is he in some way connected to the old gods? Or maybe even the White Walkers? I really have no clue what they have in mind for Bran, but it's gotta be some kind of magical/supernatural thing, for sure.

 

Re the hole in the floor: I say it's Tinyfinger, while clinging to his crazy mother's breasts and pulling her down with him.