S03.E02: Passing Through Nature to Eternity

[formerlyfreedom]

Queen Helena, along with her new Lord Chamberlain, devises a plan to secure proof of Prince Liam and Princess Eleanor's paternity. Liam begins a new but complicated relationship, while Jasper and Eleanor look to the past to inspire their future together.

[WhosThatGirl]

So Robert wants to be saved? Also he knows this blond girl with Liam? Also who is this blond girl with Liam? I keep missing her name if it's been said. 

Why is Cyrus dressing like Prince (who wore it all better) and I think I'm supposed to find Hills daughter Sara charming and adorable but I don't so more scenes to fast forward through.

jasper and Eleanor scenes for the win.

[jadecorleone]

According to the recap on E!'s website, her name is Catherine

[WhosThatGirl]

Thanks for the info!

[MaryHedwig]

Way to mix things up.

Now I am wondering if Cyrus is the legitimate brother of Simon.

I couldn't figure out if Robert knew about Catherine and Liam or just wanted to come back because Robert missed her himself....we certainly do know something will hit the fan about this soon. How about the scenes where Robert is being interviewed, were we watching scenes from a future episode or Robert's hallucinations?

I still don't understand why Ned killed the king...or tried to kill Robert. Can someone enlightened me, or give me a a satisfying made-up explanation?

I can't shake the fact that Len and Jasper's relationship started with a roofie/pretend roofie and a rape/pretend rape. I keep thinking of people down the road asking them how they meant and Len saying, "Well, it's kind of a cute story, Jasper pretended to drug and rape me and blackmailed me into being his sex slave."  Yeah, real relationship can recover from that! (And I not even touching the sleeping with the mom debacle.)

[GaT]

I couldn’t understand anything that little girl said, I hope she’s not on all the time.

How many “one true loves” is Liam going to have?

The black leather shorts outfit Eleanor was wearing was a bit much.   

[omgsowicked]

Oh, so that blonde woman isn't Dominique from last season. Wow. I guess they wanted to surprise us but it was extremely confusing. So Catherine was Robert's girlfriend and Liam loved her from afar? That's really convenient now that Robert's gonna show back up, lol. They must have known they'd be bringing Robert back into the fold one day so I wish they had Liam/Catherine be a thing earlier on so we were more invested in them (and so it didn't feel like setup for extra drama between the brothers).

Liam and Eleanor are fantastic together so I enjoyed all of their scenes. I'm anxious to see how Robert's return changes the dynamics. With Liam, at least, Catherine and being bumped back down in line will be big issues. But Robert seems to be stressed out about resuming his place in royal life so maybe he'll end up abdicating.

If that was Jake Maskall playing Cyrus's double, then I appreciate his acting even more now, haha. Of course Cyrus would have his testicle on his mantle, oh my god. He brought up that the twins may not be Simon's, so I'm kind of hoping that's a hint that that might be what happens (for the drama of it all). And it may not even matter if they're Simon's once Robert returns. But Mary Hedwig, I like your idea that Cyrus may not be related to Simon. That would be quite the twist. Based on Cyrus's interview, it seems he won't make it... as much as I detest the character (in that he's disgusting), it would be a major loss (of camp and talent) so we'll see what happens there. Also, they brought up Violet a few times, I'm wondering if we'll see her return (no body, no death).

I thought it would be cute to see Eleanor and Hill's daughter together but no... she's way too precocious (and yes, I needed closed captions myself). Small doses, please! The only part of the Jasper/Eleanor stuff I enjoyed was their talk about leaving love letters for each other. They finally cut the crap and were sweet with each other. The promo for next week brought up their gross origins and I'm so thankful for that. I know they're going to continue with them so if they can do something to somehow make up for the blackmail turned S&M stuff from the beginning... I don't need fiction to be perfect and unproblematic but I cannot get past that.

I'll have to rewatch... Willow's family worked for the royals? I think Liam said something about her mom being lucky to get out while she could. That explains why she's running in the same circles as Liam. I liked that she talked to Liam about the social media job first, and I'm interested in seeing what that entails. Rachel does social media stuff for Eleanor (on Helena's orders) so is Willow going to shadow Liam?

[okerry]

Cousins! Bring Back the Cousins! The Originals!!!

[kat165]

WhosThatGirl, I'm guessing that the woman with Liam is Robert's former girlfriend or
fiance. So, I imagine, triangle. Who cares?

That kid was so annoying. My cable is lame so I have no fast forward capabilities and just
had to suffer through it. And the lisp cause of missing teeth makes her no cuter. Why, oh
why did they have to add her? I hope we don't have to see her often. Or I wish at all.

The only part of that kid I liked was when Jasper picked her up by her overall straps and
hauled her away like a duffle bag.

Robert is sort of creepy, something around the eyes reminds me of Cyrus which is not a good
thing.

I rewatched this at 12am just to see the Jasper/Lenny scenes again.

And what is Liam's deal with Willow? Is she just  a friend? She seems to want more. I don't
remember her connection. I usually nod through the Liam scenes.

MaryH, I hadn't considered that Cyrus isn't Simon's bio brother. Interesting.

Re: the beginnings of the Jasper/Eleanor relationship: it's been awhile since I saw how they began
so it's much easier for me to forget/overlook it. From what everyone is saying it's disturbing,
(there's never anything romantic about rape) but doesn't seem real to me because I don't remember
the details or how I felt about it at the time). And I think I prefer not to remember since this
is the only relationship on a show in my tv watching history that I've had ANY interest in at all. I'm
never about the romance. Usually makes me ill, but I find both actors engaging (which is rare, usually
the male actor doesn't do anything for me & or I don't care for the female actor) & it's a weird
change of pace to for me to even care at all. I think mostly because Tom Austen is so hot & I like
A. Park. I also think they have geniune chemistry unlike most tv relationships.

I don't understand either why Ted killed Simon or tried for Robert. I'm blaming the machinations
of Cyrus but really don't care.

Yes, Liam is quite fickle. So many true loves. Don't care.

Jake Maskell as his double was funny. I didn't really understand that whole thing. Why did he need
a retinal scan? Why did they need a double? To let them into the room? That whole scheme seemed
rather convoluted. Did they run old film for Cyrus to see Violet? What ended up happening with that?
Next we saw he was back in his room discovering his missing ballaaaa.

Can someone remind me who Cyrus threw over the bridge? Was that the Domino leader? And are we
do assume his daughter and the Domino organization isn't involved anymore?

[GaT]

57 minutes ago, kat165 said:

I don't understand either why Ted killed Simon or tried for Robert. I'm blaming the machinations
of Cyrus but really don't care.

Wasn't it something to do with that whole "giant secret society with immense power" AKA Domino? They've obviously dumped that entire plot, which basically means the whole season devoted to it was a waste.

EDITED: I forgot to mention this before. Did anybody else find it strange the way they're depicting how people treat the royals? Especially the talk show parts. I can't imagine the king of any country going on a talk show & talking about his testicles, or the prince & princess talking about their sex lives.

Edited December 12, 2016 by GaT

[phoenics]

Ted supposedly cracked up when his wife was shot during an assassination attempt on King Simon.  Ted went to protect the King and his wife was shot and died.  I'm assuming he went nuts (probably why he kept seeing visions of her) and killed the King and Robert before that.  Honestly, this never felt right and I think originally it was supposed to be the first Lord Chamberlain (the older guy - what was his name?) but once the show decided to get rid of Ophelia, having Ted around made less sense and Ted became expendable as a character.  Yes I know they filmed something with Ted at the end of S1 showing him as the killer, but I'm pretty sure that was a drop in scene anyway.  No way they had Ted as the killer all along - the motivation made no sense.  It's also obvious in how they introduced Mr. Hill - I saw him as a "replacement Ted" in S2 from a mile away.

And patting myself on the back for calling who the blonde girl was.  Yes I did some behind the scenes sleuthing to place her in the white dress on the beach (see spoiler thread), but even before that I guessed she was either Dominique (recast) or a girl from Robert's past.  I like that Liam finally has chemistry with someone - Willow is dreadfully dull to me - and I like the angst of a triangle with him and Robert and this girl.  But in the end, I'm rooting for the new girl with Robert and then someone brand new for Liam, since I don't see any chemistry with Willow.  At all.  In fact, she adds nothing to the show for me at all.  I like the new girl Catherine though - but hope she ends up with Robert.  I also hope Robert isn't relegated to the sidelines for Liam.  Max Brown is a more compelling actor - he has to be - he held my interest in 2 episodes where he barely spoke.

I like how they're giving Robert a more rounded out story by bringing on a love interest, etc...  I also loved how the thought of her drove him to finally spark the flare so he could get rescued.

But here's a question:  If Robert was such the perfect Prince and so much about duty, would he have fallen for a girl like Catherine?  She's clearly a commoner - a barkeep.

I need Len and Jasper to poop or get off the toilet - all of this teasing is boring.  Let them get together and then get ripped apart by the media and scrutiny on Jasper.  Let Robert/Catherine/Liam bring the angst for now.

[MaryHedwig]

Quote

Can someone remind me who Cyrus threw over the bridge? Was that the Domino leader? And are we
do assume his daughter and the Domino organization isn't involved anymore?

Domino's brother (Dominique's father) who Cyrus perceived was not going to stop until he wiped out the entire monarchy.

Where are we suppose to assume that Prudence and the baby are?

[phoenics]

I think Prudence and the baby are secreted away somewhere.  Helena aided Prudence in high tailing it out of the country probably.

[MaryHedwig]

Just now, phoenics said:

I think Prudence and the baby are secreted away somewhere.  Helena aided Prudence in high tailing it out of the country probably.

Thank you. Did Prudence cooperate with this willingly or is she being held against her will? If she did cooperate, what was her motivation?

[phoenics]

Just now, MaryHedwig said:

Thank you. Did Prudence cooperate with this willingly or is she being held against her will? If she did cooperate, what was her motivation?

She went willingly.  I think she decided that she didn't want to raise her child in such an awful environment with such a horrible father - and I'm pretty sure Helena paid her a large sum of money.  Her main concern was that she didn't want her child to grow up poor like she did... she was marrying Cyrus because she felt it was a better life than she had... so I'm guessing Helena paid her a large sum to convince her she could give her son a good life without Cyrus or the BRF.

[kat165]

But I don't think Ted was working with Domino at the time he killed Simon. When the Domino guy (who blamed the Royals for killing his sister) confronted Ted about killing Simon I didn't get the sense that they were already in cohoots and Ted killed Simon for Domino. Aha, it occurs to me now that he killed Simon as he blamed Simon for his wife getting killed by Domino. I'd forgotten this. (once we met Ted's wife, as a ghost, it was hard to sympathesize with him. She was kind of
a bitch.) Like phoenics just said better. And yea, GaT, the whole Domino thing does now seem like a huge storyline that ultimately went nowhere.

Of course no royal would go on tv. I was shocked when Clinton and Obama made talk show appearances. These royals are campy so of course they go on talk shows.

phoenics, yeah, I think Ted had to go once they decided to get rid of Ophelia or that actress asked to leave the series. It was very uneven, like unplanned and written on the sly. The motivation did not make any sense.  Neither did the appearance of the ghost wife who was so unlikeable. I'm not seeing any chemistry between Willow and Liam either. But I'm not seeing it with Catherine either and will make more of an effort to look for it next wk. The Liam actor seems a nice guy and is very personable but he just doesn't interest me. My mind wanders when he's on screen.

Robert is probably all about duty in his prior actions (don't know how he'll be now). But when it comes to feelings maybe he wasn't able to reign them in. We don't know how involved/committed Robt and Catherine were.

I agree about the Jasper/Len teasing. Enough already.How many times did we need to hear the word "exclusive" last night. I liked the scenes only because I like them. The actual content was only eh although I really liked the bit about the book.

Thank you, MaryH. I thought maybe it was him, but I did't recognize him. It's really too long between seasons!

Prudence and baby are hiding out. Probably until Prudence needs more $$$ or the writers come up with something else to give them. And everything phoenics said. She's better off with the money than hooking her child up with a man like Cyrus.

[BennyB]

This may have been covered before...but why does Jasper keeping switching from British accent to American accent?  It bugs....

[kat165]

Yeah, it does bug. But I think he uses British when others are around. Only a few know he's actually American. He uses the American accent when he's alone with those in the know. But it is so annoying & seems so random.

[methodwriter85]

Quote

Ted supposedly cracked up when his wife was shot during an assassination attempt on King Simon.  Ted went to protect the King and his wife was shot and died.  I'm assuming he went nuts (probably why he kept seeing visions of her) and killed the King and Robert before that.  Honestly, this never felt right and I think originally it was supposed to be the first Lord Chamberlain (the older guy - what was his name?) but once the show decided to get rid of Ophelia, having Ted around made less sense and Ted became expendable as a character.  Yes I know they filmed something with Ted at the end of S1 showing him as the killer, but I'm pretty sure that was a drop in scene anyway.  No way they had Ted as the killer all along - the motivation made no sense.  It's also obvious in how they introduced Mr. Hill - I saw him as a "replacement Ted" in S2 from a mile away.

And patting myself on the back for calling who the blonde girl was.  Yes I did some behind the scenes sleuthing to place her in the white dress on the beach (see spoiler thread), but even before that I guessed she was either Dominique (recast) or a girl from Robert's past.  I like that Liam finally has chemistry with someone - Willow is dreadfully dull to me - and I like the angst of a triangle with him and Robert and this girl.  But in the end, I'm rooting for the new girl with Robert and then someone brand new for Liam, since I don't see any chemistry with Willow.  At all.  In fact, she adds nothing to the show for me at all.  I like the new girl Catherine though - but hope she ends up with Robert.  I also hope Robert isn't relegated to the sidelines for Liam.  Max Brown is a more compelling actor - he has to be - he held my interest in 2 episodes where he barely spoke.

I like how they're giving Robert a more rounded out story by bringing on a love interest, etc...  I also loved how the thought of her drove him to finally spark the flare so he could get rescued.

But here's a question:  If Robert was such the perfect Prince and so much about duty, would he have fallen for a girl like Catherine?  She's clearly a commoner - a barkeep.

Oh, I'm positive Ophelia would have been in Catherine's place if the fans had actually liked her. I'm still kind of shocked that the writers/powers-that-be actually got what a non-entity character/actress she was and wrote her out. I am so used to being force-fed an awful character with bad acting by writers insisting that we love them. (See: the Mad Men Meghan years.) I wonder if the actress was clashing with Mark Schwan? The way she got written out feels almost personal.  And eh...I liked Ted well enough before the big rewrite, but having Ted killed off the way he was basically means there's no way in hell Ophelia is ever going to come back as a love interest for Liam. Hell, I can't see Ophelia stepping foot on English soil for the rest of her life.

I do think that there was always going to be a plan to bring back Robert- considering that they never did show how he died, were incredibly vague about how he died, and (big tell) they never actually showed a picture of Robert at all during the first two seasons of the show! Which means that they couldn't just get a dayplayer to take some pictures as Robert and then call it a day, because they were always going to bring him back later on in the series.

Max Brown is a bit too old for Robert, but I'm liking him nonetheless. Especially because it seems like Robert has gone batshit crazy. I'm pretty sure those conference scenes were hallucinations, and not flashforwards.

I feel like this season so far seems much more focused. Not nearly as many extraneous characters or plots as the were in the first two seasons.

[kat165]

Recently I read the Wikipedia entry for this show and clicked on the actors' names to read a bit
about each of them. In the Ophelia actress's entry it's noted that she started working on another
show right about the time she left this one so I am wondering if she's no longer part of the show
because she asked to leave, not because the producers got feedback that she wasn't liked.

Method, it did feel personal though the way she got written out. Now I'm wondering if it was
just timing. I also agree with you on this season feeling more focused.

Edited December 16, 2016 by kat165

[WhosThatGirl]

Maybe it was personal that she started working on another show and maybe didn't tell wools BTS? They did kind of write her out in an odd way at the end of season 1, it was open ended and then season 2 she was moved on but still kind of open ended. That is until later on we learn of what's ted did.

This season does seem to have a plan though. I still think Liam's storylines are boring as all hell though.

[kat165]

WhosThatGirl, yeah, I'm bored with Liam's story as well. The actor is likeable and does a credible job, but he's just so bland.

[grisgris]

I thought that Robert cleaned up very nicely, but, yeah, he seemed a lot older than I'd imagined.  But I'd be all for having him be rescued and add some new and interesting SLs.  I like Jasper and Eleanor, but I'm also getting bored with the cat and mouse game.  Is the new Lord Chamberlain going to be Helena's new love interest? Her schoolgirl crush-blush after he left her chambers wasn't subtle.

Sorry, but I'm so confused about the women in Liam's life that I can offer nothing.

I loved Cyrus's garish red-violet velvet suit and hat on the talk show.  I hope that the convo wasn't an anvil that Cyrus is going to be killed off.  I know he's a rat's ass (and that's insulting to rats) but he's one of my favorite characters. Jake Maskall can really sell the moustache-twirling!

[Lady Grump]

This show! HAHAHAHA!

It's exactly what I needed in my life. Ridiculous and campy!  I love it so hard. No WAY should they adhere to real life rules; no rules allows for hysterical plot twists!

I have enough reality in my life, sometimes escaping to a crazy world where the King of England is a flamboyant evildoer who trashes his family on late night talk shows is just what the doctor ordered. Yes please.

I wish there was a campy show, like this, on every night of the week.