S01.E04: Episode 4

[formerlyfreedom]

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Cardinal Voiello urges the young Pope Pius XIII to finally deal with the abuse scandal surrounding American Cardinal Kurtwell. The Pope shocks Voiello by requesting to remove all homosexuals from the Catholic Church without regard to the person. Lenny arranges for a nun's sister to be brought to the Vatican for burial, then berates her at the funeral for crying. Lenny denies a promotion for Spencer and severs ties with him, as punishment for his attempt to use him. Voiello arranges for Esther to work as an assistant to the young Pope in hopes that a sex scandal might ensue that he can use as leverage. After, Lenny makes a homophobic comment about an aide to the female chancellor of Greenland, who he flirts with during a meeting.

Airing in the US on Monday, January 23, 2017.

[Muffyn]

This show draws me in more  with each episode.  I don't understand why they are burning it off so quickly.  Did they expect it to be a failure?

I love the pope's sweat suit.  I can't imagine any of the recent pope's walking around dressed like that.  But, realistically, they can't wear ceremonial garb all the time, can they?

Sending Gutierrez to New York to investigate the child rape scandal is so strange now that we know about the alcohol and children's toys in his room. Voiello continues to play palace intrigue and somehow gets thwarted by Lenny.  There is a lot to unpack on this show.    

[xqueenfrostine]

Good episode.  Lenny continues to be such a beautiful, baffling puzzle.  It was such an odd juxtaposition for him to go out of his way to bring the body of the nun's sister to the Vatican so that she could see her without having to face her fears of returning home, only to scream at her for crying over the body.  I was also intrigued by his weird little half smile when he saw Esther and her husband having sex.  

I was really moved by Gutierrez's fear of leaving the Vatican.  I also thought the hallucination he had of the nun praising him for becoming a man (even though he's clearly middle aged) is telling.  I suspect there's some sort of arrested development going on with that guy.  Between the drinking, his stuffed toy collection, and his fear of the outside world, I think something traumatic must have happened to him when he was young.

I don't know what to make of the ending scene.  The dancing prime minister was weird, but I really can't figure out why they bothered to put that  "fun fact" about Greenland's love of dancing up on the screen.  Is the show going to make a habit of teaching us random trivia?   

56 minutes ago, Muffyn said:

This show draws me in more  with each episode.  I don't understand why they are burning it off so quickly.  Did they expect it to be a failure?

I don't get it either.  It did pretty well when it aired in Europe, so I would think a lack of confidence would be the reason to air it this way.  I also don't think they would have done so much marketing for the series if they expected it to fail.  But I don't have an alternate explanation.  Is their schedule in February packed or something?

[humbleopinion]

Lenny is acting warm and fuzzy in this episode, tending to those in his daily life.

The white jogging suit shows us the Jude Law is buff and in shape, thicker than his Cold Mountain days but its been 14 years.

The dangling cigarette from his lips with his slight smile in his white cassock and vestments is the best.

The style of this show is so striking visually, kudos to HBO.

The Prime Minister to Greenland dancing to the pop song was very Twin Peak-ish.

Don't think the Pope would be that upset to find out Gutierrez is an alcoholic, it is the lesser of other evils.

HBO has shows returning like Girls and new limited series with Reece Witherspoon/Nicole Kidman scheduled in Feb. so need to get The Young Pope off the table.

Edited January 24, 2017 by humbleopinion

[rue721]

38 minutes ago, xqueenfrostine said:

Good episode.  Lenny continues to be such a beautiful, baffling puzzle.  It was such an odd juxtaposition for him to go out of his way to bring the body of the nun's sister to the Vatican so that she could see her without having to face her fears of returning home, only to scream at her for crying over the body.

I think the idea was that he would keep her from having to go back home, so she wouldn't have to relive the bad memories that made her doubt God. But then when her sister's body arrived, apparently the bad memories came with it, since she started crying inconsolably. And Lenny thought that that meant her doubts had come with it, too -- which is why he freaked out IMO.

I think Lenny is very afraid of doubt. He seems to like certainty and control A LOT. (Way, way too much).

Lenny is so strange. I mean, he has told how many people now about his doubts about God? Yet in his homily, he talked about how he only has scorn for people with any doubt, and that they're wretched.

I agree with the posters who said before that these contradictory sides to him are probably all true, though, and that he's just extremely mercurial. I also think that he is incapable of connecting with anyone, and that's why he acts so awkward and strange with everyone. He was trying to connect with Gutierrez, but after just a week or so of getting acquainted, now he's sending him away.

I think he has strategic reasons for wanting to be invisible and mysterious, and for basically playing hard-to-get -- but I think he also likes being cut off from everyone. Or maybe he doesn't like it, but it seems to be his natural state, and how he's most comfortable.

This episode wasn't as good as the last two, IMO. Too much Esther. But it was still pretty good. I'm loving this show. It's just so strange. The characters are strange, the setting is strange, it even looks and sounds strange. I haven't really ever seen anything like it.

One thing that I did like was when he was praying/willing Esther to get pregnant when he saw her and her husband having sex. The show made a pretty big effort to make that sex scene as hot as possible, way hotter than their previous (terrible) sex scene. But when Lenny saw them, he thought of procreation?! That's so bizarrely pure-minded. Just when I'm ready to completely despise him, he does something surprising and intriguing like that.

48 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

Don't think the Pope would be that upset to find out Gutierrez is an alcoholic, it is the lesser of other evils.

I think he might be upset, because he seems to be extremely hard on people.

The thing is, I actually don't think that having a bunch of partially drunk liquor bottles is a sign of someone being an alcoholic. If he were an alcoholic, wouldn't those bottles be empty? But Viello also said he would just make up a secret if there wasn't one available, so I guess it doesn't really matter if he's an alcoholic or not.

I thought that the stuffed animals were more disturbing than the liquor, honestly. I didn't see the stuffed animals as a sign that he's a predator or anything, I took them as a sign that he's stunted (emotionally) and is still more-or-less a child inside. Lenny seems not to have moved on from his childhood, either. I actually don't think Lenny is childish as much as he is bitchy, but the circumstances of his childhood seems to loom over his entire life in any case. Sister Mary and Viello both seem more mature, but they surround themselves with children, too (or Sister Mary did back when she worked at the orphanage, anyway). I think that maybe going into the church too young, and never being independent or being able to have a family (or even a life) of their own stunted them.

I think that's part of what he likes about Esther, too. She also hasn't grown up. She roller skates with the children, calls herself a "good Catholic girl," etc. I find it strange and off-putting, but I guess Lenny identifies with her and finds it charming *shrug*

[jwc]

I was trying to figure out what was going on with the nuns and the photos at the end.  I paused the DVR and it looked like they were photos of priests with children.  And the whole gang of Vatican nuns in white (who tend the orange grove as well?) were going over them, praying? asking for forgiveness or mercy for them?  Just really strange, he was kind of hovering over them and I am going to hell for this but some of those nuns were kinda cute.  Are they like the private nun posse at the Vatican who do yard work and also in their spare time check out other peoples'vacation photos?

So he wants to send Gutierez to New York to investigate.  I mean IMO if you suspect something just boot the perps (Hi I'm the new boss you are fired) and start making restitution to the victims.  Could be setting up for some drama in NYC though, where Lenny is from.

If you look at the wiki page

Spoiler

they have an actress listed for hs girlfriend (which happened before he was a priest so I don't know what is the big deal there) so I wonder if they dig her up and who knows maybe she had a child out of wedlock who is now 29 years old?  

The staging and costuming on this show is amazing, plot twists for days.  The kangaroo didn't jump like he wanted, is that indicating that his halo/gifts from God ('People say I'm a Saint') is off kilter, he seemed really smug at times over things in his past and recently a lot of scenes seem (to me) to indicate God has not been answering his calls lately.  SO he goes all voyeur to see Esther get some up against a window while he tells God he must, must have her get preggo.  I guess the Vatican health plan doesn't cover IVF.

Voiello.  Where to start.  He is the foil/antagonist in the series.  Helps out a handicapped kid on the DL.  Lets his housekeeper's kid run rampant over his gilded apartment, although he yells at him also.  Lenny wants to boot all the gay clergy, which would mean 2/3 of them? Oh boy.  

The baptism scene was hilarious.  And that is why I like this show.  Crazy weird drama, unlike other shows.  Interspersed with intriguing funny scenes.  he whole thing with the hot sauce PM from Greenland.  'Underneath the Ice cap of Greenland, you might find God' innuendo.  

I like the marketing Lady.  They sure set up a lot of temptation around Lenny.  Not sure what the problem would be.  Historically Popes had concubines, wives to I think.  I guess as a conservative extramarital sexy time with random hottie PM's would go against the grain.  Too bad.

Edited January 25, 2017 by saoirse
Please keep to the episode, and not bring info from wiki or IMDB to episode discussion untagged

[humbleopinion]

For those who aren't watching this shooting star of a show, they are missing something fresh and thought provoking.

I don't know what I will see when I tune in... and I like it.

[SFoster21]

Lady having sex back to front: was it anal sex? No wonder she's unable to conceive.

[formerlyfreedom]

Hey, let's please spoiler tag any information you bring in here from outside sources - like IMDB, or Wikipedia. This topic is for episode discussion, and putting information that you've discovered from online reading might spoil folks! Thank you!

[WatchrTina]

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 was it anal sex? No wonder she's unable to conceive.

Oh good.  I'm not the only one who wondered.  

So . . . the Swiss Guards and their families get to live on the grounds of the Vatican?  That seems like a pretty sweet deal.  You just have to watch out for stray kangaroos.

All kidding aside, whoever is in charge of finding locations for this show should be applauded.  The gardens and buildings that are standing in for the Vatican are terrific.

I, too, am intrigued by the nuns in white who apparently live at the Vatican with their beds in two straight lines like the orphans in the Madeline books.  I did not understand why they were all looking at photos.  I wondered if Pope Lenny (who is obsessed with the parents he can't remember) asked them to show him their family photos.  But keeping family photos seems un-nun-like so I'm probably wrong.

[lazylou]

Nor would It cover birth control or abortion!

Edited January 26, 2017 by lazylou

[Muffyn]

It is possible to have vaginal sex in the position shown.  This position is often used in films and TV because it shows the full body and face of the woman.  In this case, it allowed our young pope see Esther's face.   

[cocobeans]

On 1/25/2017 at 0:47 AM, WatchrTina said:

I, too, am intrigued by the nuns in white who apparently live at the Vatican with their beds in two straight lines like the orphans in the Madeline books.  I did not understand why they were all looking at photos.  I wondered if Pope Lenny (who is obsessed with the parents he can't remember) asked them to show him their family photos.  But keeping family photos seems un-nun-like so I'm probably wrong.

 Monastery of Mater Ecclesiae is an order of cloistered nuns that live in Vatican City.  And major points for the Madeline reference!

[ganesh]

I'm still not seeing what the narrative direction to this show is, beyond what I called a 'thought experiment' earlier. I do like how they aren't pretending woman don't find him attractive and aren't really ashamed of it. I mean the woman from Greenland was practically slathering over him. 

I kind of wish they pushed it further into the supernatural and suggested that Lenny is an actual saint because it would explain his eccentricities and how he would be a compromise candidate though being so young. Or how the cardinal said that 'the holy spirit breathed' that day, doesn't know his parents, etc.  He certainly has a unique interpretation of god. 

They're going to be calling Lenny, Pope Pius the Perv.

Edited February 5, 2017 by ganesh

[MV713]

I think Lenny was doubting himself whe the kangaroo didn't jump so he saw the opportunity to try to call a miracle down for Ester.  He has an affinity for her but I don't think it's a sexual attraction. 

The nun pictures appeared to be their own photos during different religious or family times. I assume they were only able to bring those type of personal items. I saw holy communion and baptism photos. Lenny probably wanted to reinforce family ties for the women after Suree sisters death.

Viollo needs a scissor to those eyebrows. And I think the handicap boy appears to be his possible son.