Season Five: The Return of Detective Michael Logan

[Maherjunkie]

I don't know.  Maybe she was a Ginger, or a Gretchen..

[WendyCR72]

Elizabeth Berkeley on this episode ("Dollhouse"). I knew she looked familiar. Even if her character seemed to deserve all the consequences she got (blackmailing a bunch of guys as the father of her kid, among other things). But...this is another one of those cases where I have no idea why this qualified for Major Case rather than the "regular" cops.

 

Early on in Logan's tenure, there seemed to be a lot of "why is this Major Case?" stories, but it seemed to spread to Goren and Eames, too. Oh, well.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Well, they were deemed Major Case, because we now had a show about Criminal Intent, which handles major cases whereas, pre SVU and CI, the mothership handled rapes, molestations attempted murders and major cases!

 

That's all I got.

[WendyCR72]

Well, they were deemed Major Case, because we now had a show about Criminal Intent, which handles major cases whereas, pre SVU and CI, the mothership handled rapes, molestations attempted murders and major cases!

 

That's all I got.

 

Well...okay. LOL!

 

And wow, this show loved to recycle names: Lewis. Joe. Frank. (And I've heard Frank - not related to Goren - a lot!) Have they never used a baby names book?

 

And now we have "Slither", where poor John Bolger dies for the first time on CI. (He'd be another victim in S9 in "Traffic"...and played an FBI agent in "The Pilgrim" back in S2 - the only one of his 3 roles where he stayed alive.  :-P )

[WendyCR72]

Malcolm MacDowell's eyebrows in the last episode should have had their own zip code. What a bastard he was...

[Donny Ketchum]

So last week, they aired the two-parter, and while I do love how they mixed the two teams and had the men and women split off together at times . . . I do wish they'd mixed them up in different ways and showed us how Goren might've worked with Barek, and Logan with Eames.  Might've been interesting for a scene or two.

[WendyCR72]

So last week, they aired the two-parter, and while I do love how they mixed the two teams and had the men and women split off together at times . . . I do wish they'd mixed them up in different ways and showed us how Goren might've worked with Barek, and Logan with Eames.  Might've been interesting for a scene or two.

 

I wouldn't have minded that. Although, in the case of any potential Goren/Barek stuff, I wonder whom would reign whom in, if need be, since they both seemed to be sort of quirky. But that could have been interesting. Then there's Logan/Eames. Which one would outsnark the other one?

[Donny Ketchum]

I wouldn't have minded that. Although, in the case of any potential Goren/Barek stuff, I wonder whom would reign whom in, if need be, since they both seemed to be sort of quirky. But that could have been interesting. Then there's Logan/Eames. Which one would outsnark the other one?

Ooh, both of those are tough ones.  Though I think Barek would rein in Goren since her one real quirk was her tendency to talk to herself aloud to make sense of crime scenes.  Goren was . . . well . . . Goren.

 

Logan and Eames, though . . . hmm.  I can't imagine who'd outsnark whom, so that would be tough. . . .

[WendyCR72]

Not categorically S5 ,but since we're on the subject of mix and match, it does make me wonder how those who had never crossed paths would have meshed, a la Wheeler/Barek or Carver/Nichols. (And, no. I still don't like Nichols, but I'm just saying.) Clearly, Ross got along fine with Nichols as they were partners, but would Deakins have liked him? Or Stevens? Or Wheeler?

 

Just a curiosity thing, I guess.

[Donny Ketchum]

Not categorically S5 ,but since we're on the subject of mix and match, it does make me wonder how those who had never crossed paths would have meshed, a la Wheeler/Barek or Carver/Nichols. (And, no. I still don't like Nichols, but I'm just saying.) Clearly, Ross got along fine with Nichols as they were partners, but would Deakins have liked him? Or Stevens? Or Wheeler?

 

Just a curiosity thing, I guess.

Wheeler and Stevens already worked with Nichols, and both seemed to like him well enough (even if the real-life portrayers didn't like each other).

[WendyCR72]

Wheeler and Stevens already worked with Nichols, and both seemed to like him well enough (even if the real-life portrayers didn't like each other).

 

Oh, I know they did. I was just thinking about pairings and combinations that never happened, like Carver interacting with Nichols or Wheeler sharing scenes with Deakins, etc. And if anyone besides Wheeler and Stevens - who had to endure Nichols due to the partnership - could handle the guy. (I know Eames shared scenes with him, too.)

 

Like I said, mere curiosity.  :-)

[Donny Ketchum]

I have to ask if I'm the only one who found Claire's scheme in "Dollhouse" reprehensible, yet still completely understood her motives, especially having seen what kind of person Danielle was?  Because I'd have probably wanted her out of little Charlie's life, too.  Though I'd have just tried to push for her being declared an unfit mother rather than just try to kill her.

[WendyCR72]

I have to ask if I'm the only one who found Claire's scheme in "Dollhouse" reprehensible, yet still completely understood her motives, especially having seen what kind of person Danielle was?  Because I'd have probably wanted her out of little Charlie's life, too.  Though I'd have just tried to push for her being declared an unfit mother rather than just try to kill her.

 

No, I agree. But really, poor Charlie had no chance in hell with a "mother" like Danielle or with an aunt who was willing to off her sister. And their parents just seemed blind to it all. So, by the end, Charlie was really the only one I felt anything for.

[Donny Ketchum]

No, I agree. But really, poor Charlie had no chance in hell with a "mother" like Danielle or with an aunt who was willing to off her sister. And their parents just seemed blind to it all. So, by the end, Charlie was really the only one I felt anything for.

I don't disagree, WendyCR72.  The thing is, I just couldn't help but somewhat (just somewhat) feel for Claire, too.  She no doubt felt like she was out of options and could only resort to that.  She was the only one who could truly see what her sister really was and had no real allies on her side (I don't count her boss since I don't even think he saw what she did, just helped her out of love for her).  I imagine if her parents hadn't been so blind to Danielle (one reason I blame them for part of the mess, too), she'd have felt like there would've been more avenues to explore that didn't have to be murder.

 

Then again, even the option I suggested above probably didn't seem attractive, because Charlie might've just ended up with the father, who seemed like no real prize himself. . . .

[Maherjunkie]

He was imperfect but seemed to love his kid....

[WendyCR72]

He was imperfect but seemed to love his kid....

 

Really? Because I took the "he's my little man" as a con to Logan/Barek because that was before he divulged he had Danielle's car - which he stored as a condition to slide with child support.

 

So he seemed to talk a good game, but he didn't seem all too concerned with Charlie's overall well being, either.

[Maherjunkie]

Maybe I'm an easy sell....

[WendyCR72]

Maybe I'm an easy sell....

 

Too trusting!  :-P

[Donny Ketchum]

Really? Because I took the "he's my little man" as a con to Logan/Barek because that was before he divulged he had Danielle's car - which he stored as a condition to slide with child support.

 

So he seemed to talk a good game, but he didn't seem all too concerned with Charlie's overall well being, either.

What he said at the beginning of the scene when Logan and Barek went to question him all but told me that, too.

 

So now I've just watched "The Healer" on my DVR.  And while there is not a doubt in my mind that Lydia more than deserved to go down, I'm scratching my head as to why Robbie didn't, as well.  At the very least, he should've gotten manslaughter for what happened to Sarah and Christie, right?  Instead, Barek tells him he gets his life back.

[WendyCR72]

What he said at the beginning of the scene when Logan and Barek went to question him all but told me that, too.

 

So now I've just watched "The Healer" on my DVR.  And while there is not a doubt in my mind that Lydia more than deserved to go down, I'm scratching my head as to why Robbie didn't, as well.  At the very least, he should've gotten manslaughter for what happened to Sarah and Christie, right?  Instead, Barek tells him he gets his life back.

 

Oh, Robbie definitely should have gotten some form of punishment. But he seemed to be like the wife of the doctor ("Crazy" in S1), who had nothing of consequence happen to her, either, even though it was her lie that got the ball rolling for crazy "Charlie The Shrink" to off his would-be girlfriend's brother-in-law. (She lied that her daughter was molested by her father, and knew it was.)

 

Sometimes, sadly, laws and consequences - or lack thereof! - on CI were fluid.

[Donny Ketchum]

Oh, Robbie definitely should have gotten some form of punishment. But he seemed to be like the wife of the doctor ("Crazy" in S1), who had nothing of consequence happen to her, either, even though it was her lie that got the ball rolling for crazy "Charlie The Shrink" to off his would-be girlfriend's brother-in-law. (She lied that her daughter was molested by her father, and knew it was.)

 

Sometimes, sadly, laws and consequences - or lack thereof! - on CI were fluid.

Oh, I don't think it was as fluid as it was for that wife, WendyCR72.  It was noted that he'd helped Lydia with her crimes, but he hadn't known they were crimes.  Watching that final scene again, Barek said, "You testify against Lydia, and then, you get your life back."  Sounded like she was telling him that he was in trouble, to an extent, but he would get immunity in exchange for his testimony since he really could claim plausible deniability in the criminal aspects of her acts.  Or at least that was what I gathered.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Donny Ketchum

[WendyCR72]

Oh, I don't think it was as fluid as it was for that wife, WendyCR72.  It was noted that he'd helped Lydia with her crimes, but he hadn't known they were crimes.  Watching that final scene again, Barek said, "You testify against Lydia, and then, you get your life back."  Sounded like she was telling him that he was in trouble, to an extent, but he would get immunity in exchange for his testimony since he really could claim plausible deniability in the criminal aspects of her acts.  Or at least that was what I gathered.

 

Yeah, I guess that's true. Still, even though he didn't know, he seemed to still get off fairly easily, when his actions - whether he was privy to the criminal acts or not - still ended up assisting Lydia. But I know, plausible deniability is a legit thing here, so it's not surprising he manages to stay somewhat clean.

[Eolivet]

Had not seen "In the Wee Small Hours" for several years, so it was a treat to rewatch it (especially seeing all the love it gets here!) It was a really tight, interesting case -- they balanced so many subplots, and yet, it all held together. Trotting out Goren's personal life with his mother was perfectly pitched for a "sweeps"-style episode, and that moment with Eames on the stand, reading the letter. Part 2 may be one of the most complex hours they've done -- maybe it was the trial aspect to it. It just seemed like the case mushroomed from "standard sensational teenager disappearance" into commentaries on the crime media (Nancy Grace and her ilk), a brief dissection of the detectives' personal lives, putting the puzzle pieces of an errant statement together and the fantastic denouement when the real killer is revealed. It was exhilarating, yet almost exhausting to watch. One of the few "stunt" episodes that not only held together beautifully, but exceeded the show's own standards.

 

One of the great things that elevated the writing, in my opinion, are the details. The Sinatra locations and Tucker the disappearing dog into the salt marsh, for example (Chekov's dog, really -- from the moment Goren came running in with "He lost his dog!", you knew it was going to figure in somehow).

 

I know this was clearly based on the Natalee Holloway disappearance, but there was a level of creativity that you didn't see in a lot of these "ripped from the headlines" cases. Sometimes I feel like all iterations of L&O copy the source material and change a few details, but this case became so much more. Hats off to the writers -- and the actors -- who made it sing (like Sinatra, heh).

[Maherjunkie]

I  liked getting glimpses into Logan's record collection too!

[WendyCR72]

I agree that all of the ingredients definitely worked and worked well in "Wee...", including the perfect balance of personal issues and how they offset the case.

And VDO and Chris Noth deservedly got their dues, but I thought Kathryn Erbe kicked ass when Alex was confronted with that letter while on the stand.

And I was glad that CI didn't drag out the angst with Alex and Bobby and had them talk things out like adults. (As much as I still liked the show later on, you know this would have been ongoing issue post S5.)

Still, everything clicked, even the introduction of Faith Yancy, the Nancy Grace wannabe. I also said this before, but I liked the altered credits, too, because I'm a dork! :-)

[Eolivet]

I've seen "Proud Flesh" three times, and I still don't understand how Malcolm McDowell talked a super curly Matthew Morrison into suicide by cop and then confessing to his father's crimes. Threatening him with death, I guess -- just like his brother?

 

And Jonas' wife's expression at the end is inscrutable. Always wondered what she was thinking.

[WendyCR72]

I've seen "Proud Flesh" three times, and I still don't understand how Malcolm McDowell talked a super curly Matthew Morrison into suicide by cop and then confessing to his father's crimes. Threatening him with death, I guess -- just like his brother?

 

And Jonas' wife's expression at the end is inscrutable. Always wondered what she was thinking.

 

I never got that, either. But Malcolm MacDowell's character was so completely vile. The way that he treated his wife and small daughter was reprehensible. They were better off without his ass.

[WendyCR72]

WendyCR72 this is appropos of nothing but your seasonal Peanuts avatars make me very joyful :)

 

Aww, glad you enjoy them, Chattygal!  :-)  I can't wait to choose one for Christmas.  :-)

[Donny Ketchum]

So ION is back to season five.  And now that it is, I have to ask something.  I've always wondered why they ended "Unchained" after Renata turns on Virgini.  Weren't Logan, Barek, and Deakins all trying to get him or Kerkoff to roll on that mob boss, Tagliotti?  Would've liked to have seen how that shook out.

[WendyCR72]

So ION is back to season five.  And now that it is, I have to ask something.  I've always wondered why they ended "Unchained" after Renata turns on Virgini.  Weren't Logan, Barek, and Deakins all trying to get him or Kerkoff to roll on that mob boss, Tagliotti?  Would've liked to have seen how that shook out.

 

Yes, that was a rather large loose end. But Renata's dear ol' daddy was such a piece of crap that I was okay with showing him get what he deserved. Even if, by rights, that stuff with regard to the mob boss was a large hole.

[Donny Ketchum]

So now that season five is back on ION, I wanted to pose a question, maybe get you all thinking.

 

Since this was the season in which the two-pair format started, I've often wondered something that perhaps you all might wonder, too.  How might each pair have handled the other pair's cases?  Would they have taken the same roads to solve them?  Gone the same way the writers had the original pairs take?  How do you think the interactions with the witnesses or suspects might've changed?  And how do you think the final busting scenes might've differed?

 

Uh, let's leave "Grow" with Goren and Eames (since anything Nicole-related should stay with them), and leave "Diamond Dogs" with Logan and Barek since that was their first case together and was heavy on references to Logan's past.  And of course, the two-parter, in which both pairs took part.  But take every other episode and picture the other pair investigating the case rather than the one who actually did.  How do you think things might've been different?

[WendyCR72]

Personally, I think that question comes down to style. We know Logan is/was more hotheaded, more often than not and wasn't averse to getting physical - when warranted - to get what he wanted/needed out of a suspect. So I liken Barek/Logan as a "typical" cop team (as far as a TV show goes).

 

Meanwhile, Bobby is much more psychological in nature. He profiles, he digs mentally, and Eames is the more practical one of the two, reigning Goren in and helping him focus. So take any case and just flip it. Logan would get his exercise and Goren would reduce the perps to psychological jelly.

 

As much as I did enjoy Logan outsmarting that dirty cop/Renata's dad, as one example, I was always curious how Goren would have dealt with the guy...

[Donny Ketchum]

Personally, I think that question comes down to style. We know Logan is/was more hotheaded, more often than not and wasn't averse to getting physical - when warranted - to get what he wanted/needed out of a suspect. So I liken Barek/Logan as a "typical" cop team (as far as a TV show goes).

 

Meanwhile, Bobby is much more psychological in nature. He profiles, he digs mentally, and Eames is the more practical one of the two, reigning Goren in and helping him focus. So take any case and just flip it. Logan would get his exercise and Goren would reduce the perps to psychological jelly.

 

As much as I did enjoy Logan outsmarting that dirty cop/Renata's dad, as one example, I was always curious how Goren would have dealt with the guy...

To be fair, as "typical" as Logan and Barek were, they still zeroed in on the motives of the perps just as much as Goren and Eames did, to fit in with the theme of the show.  Granted, in different ways (as Barek used the profiles and psyches of past perps she'd dealt with, while Goren focused on the one perp), but both pairs still did that.

[Maherjunkie]

I can't say I see Logan dancing with a perp.  Or even to get info.

[WendyCR72]

To be fair, as "typical" as Logan and Barek were, they still zeroed in on the motives of the perps just as much as Goren and Eames did, to fit in with the theme of the show.  Granted, in different ways (as Barek used the profiles and psyches of past perps she'd dealt with, while Goren focused on the one perp), but both pairs still did that.

 

Oh! The "typical" thing wasn't meant as a diss or anything. It's just the Logan/Barek style was more...normal, I guess? Something you'd see on other such cop shows (minus the explosions and shootouts), but the questioning style, etc. Goren seemed...more Columbo-ish, straight down to the "one more thing..." formula he often did.

I can't say I see Logan dancing with a perp.  Or even to get info.

 

True. I guess Goren just had the rhythm in him and liked to dance!  :-)  "Jones", "Pas De Deux"...

[Donny Ketchum]

When did he dance in "Jones?"

[WendyCR72]

When he went to that Spanish "Hostess" club to ask about the victim that worked there, Angie Suarez. One of her coworkers told Bobby that she wouldn't get paid if she wasn't working (which equated to dancing/showing guys a good time), so Bobby interviewed her as they danced.

[Eolivet]

Just finished "Acts of Contrition." Disturbing, but powerful. I thought it sort of worked that the younger brother (Eddie) was a little off. After the trauma in his family, he wouldn't seem right to be normal.

 

So, Angie ran away because the police didn't know her role in the beating and she was afraid she would be prosecuted, too? With all the talk about "letting them find me," I was wondering if she was also scared of Al and Tony, but everything ran together in my head after her final confession scene.

 

Man, the middle-later seasons really were gloomy.

[WendyCR72]

Man, the middle-later seasons really were gloomy.

 

So true. I think S5 was a harbinger and "Blind Spot" as the S6 premiere totally showed that dark path was really close on the horizon with "Endgame" bookmarking it, and S7 was just a downer. Maybe minus "Vanishing Act". I often wonder how that snuck itself in since it was sort of light and G/E were allowed to crack a grin.

 

I really think S1-4 were normal/normalish, and S5-8 were just bleak. S9? Quirky. (Minus the "Loyalty" arc.) And normal was restored for S10, minus the damned shrink sessions.

[Eolivet]

S5 was gloomy, I'll give you that. But I think it started earlier, with S4. If I recall correctly, S4 was like...the Year of the Creepy Serial Killer (from Posthumuous Collection to Want to Shibboleth). Oh, and didn't S4 have "In the Dark" and "Magnificat?"

 

Maybe gloomy is the wrong word for S4. The majority of the cases seemed bleak. It was only in S5 that they turned gloomy and continued throughout the later seasons. Though you're right -- I don't think there's a case in S10 that's too particularly depressing.

 

I'm not even talking a light-hearted case -- I'm talking like...a motive that wasn't just that the killer was the scourge of humanity. Greed was a less common motive for murder later on. Somehow, the greed cases were never as depressing as the others, to me.

[WendyCR72]

I think that's true. I mean, greed is what it is. People want their share of the pie and more. Sure, there may be psychological roots to it, and enter Bobby, but greed doesn't seem to allow for deep dark sturm und drang like a lot of the episodes you listed obviously did.

 

And now that you listed some of those dark episodes, @Eolivet...yeah, I suppose S4 was no picnic, either. Still, maybe I noticed it less since the writing still seemed a bit better than it was in, say, S7 or S8.

[Donny Ketchum]

I tend not to listen to that kind of thing.  As far as I'm concerned, you're both going into your obsessions with Goren and Eames's episodes, yet completely discounting Logan and Barek's, none of which seemed or felt particularly gloomy to me at all except "To the Bone."  And even then, it was more because Whoopi's character got off than anything else.  But all of their other episodes seemed pretty standard or even lighthearted to me.

[WendyCR72]

I don't know, @Donny Ketchum. Logan and Barek even got sucked in towards the end. As you mention, "To The Bone" is a prime example (but did come with a cool Liz Olivet sighting!), and the whole events surrounding that actually helped to force Deakins out and Mike was raging away, etc.

 

I will concede that for Logan and Wheeler, maybe things weren't too dark in S6, but 50% (G/E)? Definitely yes. "Blind Spot", "Siren Call" was another BIG downer, and so on.

 

But by the end of S6, even Logan was sucked in with the dead neighbor he had the hots for, etc.

 

I think the darkest they ever let Wheeler go was with her ex. As much as I preferred Eames, I often wonder why TIIC never had Wheeler go under as the other three did. I wonder how she would have handled the darkest stuff...

[Donny Ketchum]

I don't know, @Donny Ketchum. Logan and Barek even got sucked in towards the end. As you mention, "To The Bone" is a prime example (but did come with a cool Liz Olivet sighting!), and the whole events surrounding that actually helped to force Deakins out and Mike was raging away, etc.

Okay, okay.  Not just the end.  I'll concede one more episode for them.  I guess "Watch" was a bit dark, but again, not really for the case so much as for the perp.  As fun as it always is to see Barek totally own Duane, his rather brooding reasons for killing the prostitutes just leaves me totally, completely, utterly depressed.  Instead of just getting therapy, he has Art join him on a killing spree?  Yeah.  Kinda dark there.  And that's not even to say anything about the borderline nonsensical desire to eventually want to kill Logan and Barek, both of whom initially offered to help him when they thought he was the one being coerced in helping with the killings.

 

I mean, I liked that episode otherwise, but Duane was just plain depressing.

[WendyCR72]

I think, too, the reason the show just kept sinking into darkness was change of network. Maybe since USA was a cable station, Leight wanted to really push boundaries or whatnot.

 

As it was, it seemed like ACTUAL lights were turned off starting in S7, at least in the squad room. (S9 seemed almost in the dark when Goldblum/Burrows were there.)

[Maherjunkie]

Oh they were in the dark alright.

[WendyCR72]

Oh they were in the dark alright.

 

Hee. But still! (To connect it to the actual topic here...) Compare the lighting in S5 to S9. I swear One Police Plaza gave up lights altogether. Probably because the budget was probably nil in S9, but still.

[Donny Ketchum]

Since everyone's obsessed with Goren and Eames's episodes and continuously discount Logan and Barek's, I'll ask this.  I've seen "Vacancy" three times and still don't know why the perp committed the murder.  Can anyone help me understand?

[WendyCR72]

I don't think anyone "discounts" anything. Are G/E more discussed? Yes. But let's face it: It was that team that started the show, it was that team that bookended and ended it, so I think they are just the...more identified pairing. As for Logan and Barek, maybe they are less discussed since, for whatever reason, Barek was only on for one season, so no one really got a handle on her or was too attached. I do wonder if the fans just didn't take to Annabella Sciorra or what, since I thought contracts are typically multi year in nature...

 

If I'm wrong about Logan/Barek, awesome! Truly. I hope their fans speak up. But that's my take from around the 'net. But I think a secondary issue with Logan is his Mothership partners left a big imprint, especially Lennie.

 

But to answer about "Vacancy", the perp was messed up. He was a "method actor" who often inhabited characters for his roles. One role he was to play was a stalker/killer. Unfortunately, in immersing himself in that role, it opened a Pandora's Box of repressed memories about his own mother being stalked and killed and he wanted to feel what the killer did and wanted to see the fear his own mother had in his victim. So when the drunk friend told him to kiss her companion (when he was the taxi driver), it gave him an opportunity to carry out his warped fantasy.

[Donny Ketchum]

I don't think anyone "discounts" anything. Are G/E more discussed? Yes. But let's face it: It was that team that started the show, it was that team that bookended and ended it, so I think they are just the...more identified pairing. As for Logan and Barek, maybe they are less discussed since, for whatever reason, Barek was only on for one season, so no one really got a handle on her or was too attached. I do wonder if the fans just didn't take to Annabella Sciorra or what, since I thought contracts are typically multi year in nature...

I understand all that.  Goren and Eames were the original, longest-established pair on the show.  But when it comes right down to it, Logan, Barek, Wheeler, Nichols, and Stevens were all on the show, too, and thus are part of its history and deserve acknowledgement.  It just gets irritating seeing the exact opposite happen.

 

Also, thanks for the "Vacancy" explanation.  It's just that Goren goes about his busts so vaguely that I often can't understand what he's implying the killers' motives to be.  I can only count very few the Goren/Eames episodes in which I did understand the motives by the end -- "Jones," "Tomorrow," "Stray," "F.P.S.," "Pas de Deux," "Inert Dwarf," "Stress Position," and "Grow."  Also, the one in which the Jewish grandmother had her grandchildren's mother killed, but I forgot the title.  The others?  I got nothing.

 

With Logan and Barek's episodes (and later on, Logan and Wheeler's), I can fully understand each perp's motives by the end because at least they outright say what said motives are.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Donny Ketchum