Season Three Speculation: Mr. Robot

[formerlyfreedom]

It's never too soon!

Season Three is a go; talk here (SPOILER-FREE) about what you think might happen!

[Milaxx]

Only thing I can think of is a Fire Sale, but that feels too obvious. It's too early for me to form an good guess as to what happened next, until the end of this season and hopefully some resolution to the current issues. Namely,  "Where is Tyrell?" and "What is Mr.Robot hiding from Elliot?"

[morgankobi]

I assume Phase Two may take most of next season. (Who knows how many phases there are!) The preparation, application, and fallout could likely take up 10-12 episodes.

[Milaxx]

I think it may be something to do with the Congo and gaining power over the Colton mines. If Phase 1 was disrupting the current technological system then whoever rules the coltan mines will have the upper hand in rebuilding since colton is a key ingredient in the manufacturing of electronic devices.

[Cardie]

China already has cornered the market on many African rare earths, so that would be a good guess.

[greenbean]

I don't think I can watch this show week to week. I binged from the start to E9 this season, and having to wait for the last two episodes is so frustrating.

More and more I'm waiting for shows to reach S2 before I even begin watching. So I'll probably skip S3 until the last episode. It's so much more fun to watch a show like that.

Anyway, I've no idea what S3 would be about. Obviously phase two will factor, but maybe Elliot will turn on DA/Whiterose after Darlene's attack. 

[green]

Milaxx's find of a long, detailed speculation about Mr Robot. 

The Batshit Crazy Back to the Future Theory

That read was through the looking glass.  Hopefully these are some red herrings because a little "off" is good but "way off" is who cares for me.  It loses it's "visceral" like I mentioned in another post if he riffs off into different genres.  And references are fine in small measure but if the whole show starts to reference half the entertainment of the last half century it goes way too far.  Because it gets tiresome and who cares again.

The thing we have to remember is Sam Esmail had an idea for a movie that he then thought would make a better TV series and that 90% of that movie script basically became the pilot.  The pilot only as in he hadn't had a longer term plan at the beginning any more than the cylons of 2004 Battlestar Galactica had (or that show's creator, Ron Moore, for that matter).  In fact Ron Moore once referred to a TV series as "flying by the seat of your pants" which explains how shows jump sharks so easily in a way.

So no way did Esmail think he would be writing a third season back at pilot time when apparently he started sprinkling hints about the "future".  He was probably just happily scurrying to figure stuff out when he was green lighted.

So could the guy on that link be right with some of his speculation?  Sure.  Esmail could have decided to go that direction early on.  But again the pilot was what had the Back to the Future II video tape. So if true did an item in the pilot inspire him or did he plant said item?  One thing that did strike me weird at the time is that Angela was holding a VHS tape version of that movie.  Not a Blu-Ray or DVD version.  Damn now I'm getting paranoid about all of this too.  (Also explains why Angela went to seemingly acting like a normal human ealry on in the show to looking like a Stepford Wife).

He (link guy above) offers a lot of logically-reasoned stuff there.  I just hope he is dead wrong personally.  Because if true it makes Weird Hair Guy on Ancient Aliens seem logical too.  And he most definitely isn't.  Can we just have a simple hacker thriller without involving possible time travel, Angela clones, Elliot in a coma for years etc etc?  It is far more scary that way then opening up all these possibilities.

PS: One thing I do totally disagree with is his assertion there was no proof Whiterose is associated with The Dark Army.

Edited September 20, 2016 by green

[Milaxx]

I agree there is definitely proof that Whiterose is associated with the DA, but I do think there is a time travel or parallel universe plot happening. In fact I debated on starting a new thread but then realized this falls under speculation. Hopefully others can jump in. We can trust what Elliot says. You often have to pick up cues from signs, computer screens, etc... There are several key words/phrase that are repeated. Kor Adana, Technical Producer and writer for the show says they love placing Easter eggs throughout. In other words they are encouraging this sort of wild speculation.

Creating a show glossary instead.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Milaxx

[Misstify]

2 hours ago, green said:

So no way did Esmail think he would be writing a third season back at pilot time when apparently he started sprinkling hints about the "future". 

Here's one way it could have come about:  season one had a lot of similarities to Fight Club.  Maybe Esmail decided, hey, I'll drop some movie clues as red herrings...people will be thinking about Back to the Future and Blade Runner, not just Fight Club, and will be wondering: is this movie gonna have time travel, or replicants, or alter personalities?  (Note: I don't think people really did much speculation about those other two in season one; I seem to recall it was all, is Mr. Robot an alter or is he a real person?).

Anyway, having sprinkled hints about Back to the Future (VHS tape, music, 80s stuff) and Blade Runner (the name Tyrell and hmm...maybe some of the stuff about pets?), Esmail later decided "Why not go there??" ...or else he is continuing to make them red herrings.

I really do think there is something weird about Angela, in the acting and styling of her, and she is different than the Angela we used to know.

1 hour ago, Milaxx said:

Angela's self improvement tapes when she was dressing to meet Price for dinner

Thanks for reminding me of this.  I might need to go back and watch that scene.  

[Cardie]

The one part of the crazy theory I would reject is the whole show being in the head of eight-year-old Elliot. There's too much specific to the 21st-century global economic system that he could not "dream" of. Besides, the snowglobe reveal is one of the most polarizing in TV history, just behind Bobby coming out of the shower on Dallas. I really hope that we will not get an "it's all in the head of an unconscious person" reveal as the total of this story, thereby completely invalidating its critique of late capitalist culture.

That said, I don't totally rule out time travel or replicants, since they can be explained as results of really great technological achievement by WR's researchers.

[hincandenza]

Yeah, I think the middle path of that theory is the way to go: too much Tommy Westphall theory and the show becomes pointless (this was a common complaint in these forums for the first half of the season).  But if it turns out that sometime in the middle of writing season 1, Esmail decided to introduce some trail mix of time travel, belief-driven parallel universes (something of a theme of my favorite Neal Stephenson book, "Anathem"), and/or replicants, I'd be totally and gleefully down with that.  I happen to adore well done woo-woo sci-fi that dabbles in reality bending plots.  The key is that if you have a dramatic shocking reveal, you have to earn it: there have to be so many pieces that fit neatly together hidden and hinted at, that when you go back on rewatch you are compelled to say "Oh shit, how did I not see this the first time?!" I think "Fringe" did that very well (and remains one of my all-time favorite sci-fi shows); the first time I rewatched it, I was noticing how much of the series mythos was put in play even very early on.

So if it's revealed that WR and/or Elliot have successful doubled-back to spin off a new timeline/parallel universe, then I'm down with that if:

1) It is ultimately explained when, how, and especially why.  When I watch a "concept" show like this, I expect that the creators have at least one clear point/theme/idea they are trying to convey- from a critique on our current world, to a meditation on the power imbalance or threat of rapidly growing technology (both in the hands of wealthy individuals and rogue individuals), to personal concepts of regret and life choices... whatever it is, there should be a catharsis at the end of the seasons and series.  For example the aforementioned "Fringe" was, in the end and after all the hijinx and shenanigans with parallel universes, a story about a father's boundless love for his son; this grounded what could have been a flighty and forgettable show.  If some of the characters are playing around with these shall-we-say "cosmic" forces, I can suspend disbelief if you give me a reason why they do it (and what that says about our own, real, world or individual lives).

2) The insightful things you folks and that blogger are noting about the BttF hints, the quote from WR about "hacking time", Milaxx's well thought out bullet points, Angela's dramatic change in behavior this season, the odd anachronisms such as VHS tapes, etc all become glaringly obvious on rewatch with that information in hand, and in retrospect the conclusion feels inescapable.

[Misstify]

I agree about not being on board with an "all a dream/Elliot is age 8 this whole time" ending.  Time travel, parallel universes, replicants, and alters are all things I'm fine with.

I also wanted to add that I haven't seen Blade Runner in ages (too long!) but one thing I just thought of was the woman in BR with the snake.  Python??  Hmmm.

[Milaxx]

 Python in this instance referes to a computer program named after Monty Python

[Misstify]

8 hours ago, Milaxx said:

Python in this instance referes to a computer program named after Monty Python

I do know what python is, but there wasn't any python programming in this episode.  I guess that will be in part 2 of the episode.  I didn't mean to imply that an unspoken possible reference to a scene in Blade Runner was the whole intent of the episode title, just that it's a shade of meaning that can be added to whatever the title explicitly refers to.  And really, that would only be the case if there's a Blade-Runner-esque part of the story, which we really won't know until...either tomorrow or next season, I guess.

Getting back to themes that are strong throughout the show, I think identity should be on the list.  Elliot obviously has suffered confusion about his true identity and his alter.  All of the hackers have their hacker names (I would assume that some of them, like Trenton and Mobley, don't even know each other's real names).  Whiterose is a transgender woman who uses a male gender in her career.  Masks are worn by people in f.society and the Dark Army.

[Milaxx]

6 hours ago, Misstify said:

identity should be on the list.  Elliot obviously has suffered confusion about his true identity and his alter.  All of the hackers have their hacker names (I would assume that some of them, like Trenton and Mobley, don't even know each other's real names).  Whiterose is a transgender woman who uses a male gender in her career.  Masks are worn by people in f.society and the Dark Army.

adding this

[Potanical Pardon]

On 9/19/2016 at 7:56 PM, hincandenza said:

The key is that if you have a dramatic shocking reveal, you have to earn it: there have to be so many pieces that fit neatly together hidden and hinted at, that when you go back on rewatch you are compelled to say "Oh shit, how did I not see this the first time?!" I think "Fringe" did that very well (and remains one of my all-time favorite sci-fi shows); the first time I rewatched it, I was noticing how much of the series mythos was put in play even very early on.

Yeah, I still don't get how the same people behind Fringe were behind the Transformers movies. Does not compute.

[Milaxx]

Interesting article from Deadline. Most noticeably for this paragraph:

Quote

While season 1 dealt with Elliot’s self awareness, season 2 with revolution, Esmail tells Deadline that season 3 will be about “Disintegration” as Elliot and his figment-of-his- imagination-father Mr. Robot split further apart against the nation’s recession.

I got the impression this season the more Elliot tried to rid himself of the Mr. Robot persona, the more violent M.Robot became. In season 1 he wanted to blow Steel Mountain up, but Elliot came up with the plan to go in and hack the thermostats. In season 2 we see he likes solving problems by blowing them up as per stage 2. However I think Elliot is getting stronger and more aware and better able to handle the battle for control than when he was prison.

[green]

Interesting find, thanks Milaxx.

And again this article also confirmed that Tyrell is indeed real, alive and not some Elliot head bot:  “Mr. Robot lied,” explains Esmail, “Elliot is convinced up until the end that Tyrell isn’t real, and it took a gunshot (by Tyrell) to snap him back into reality.”

I hope indeed they spend more time on the macro world of this recession/crisis and how every day people are being impacted while the politicians are too busy trying to politicize the crisis for their own agendas rather than solve the problem and the government inter-agencies are too busy with their turf wars battling each other to take the "lead" on this so no one can get anything done. Sounds like if they are going to do some of that macro stuff in Season 3 which makes me happy.

I mean will we reach such a crisis point that martial law will be declared?  The National Guard on every street corner?  Will demagogues arise trying to take advantage of fear?

One of the last shots in the show was Angela on the balcony as we don't see the usual brown-out flickering of lights behind her but instead all the lights in NYC seemingly go out period. 

Edited September 24, 2016 by green

[queenanne]

On 9/19/2016 at 8:09 PM, Misstify said:

I agree about not being on board with an "all a dream/Elliot is age 8 this whole time" ending.  Time travel, parallel universes, replicants, and alters are all things I'm fine with.

Well, there's already a problem I saw with the dude's theory, because he picks on Darlene not being present in a picture of Elliot's family as meaning something portentously fraught with alterna-meaning, at a time when I think we already know that Elliot didn't remember Darlene was a part of his family (remembering he tried to kiss her), so.  IIRC the audience at the time also didn't know Darlene was Elliot's sister, and was presented to us as a surprise reveal.  

Of course, if this took place after we know the above events, I withdraw my objection on this basis.

[Milaxx]

 I agree with the Darlene not really being in the picture issue. 3 things spring to mind; 1) That family photo that Elliot found after he remembered Darlene was his sister. In it Elliot is framed by his mom & dad with their hands on each of his shoulders. Darlene is kinda off to the side & in front of her mother. 2)In the flash back when Darlene brings what Katrina becomes the fsociety mask to Elliot's he ask something like, When did you get back in town?" Indicating she has been out of the picture for a while. This us when we learn Elliot had some sort of breakdown at work, got fired and was mandated to see Krista (his therapist). 3)Darlene talks about feeling isolated or not special within her family. She mentions not ever being asked what she wanted as a child when telling that story to Cisco & again says she's not special when Don interrogates her.  I'd also say the fact that she enlist Angela's help in finding him in season 1 because she says she knows him better is a good indication of Darlene's separateness as well.

[Sup wit dat]

I was so addicted to this show through season 1.  It was amazing.  But for season 2 it looks like they ran out of hacker ideas and turned it into another stupid, typical government/corporation espionage show.  They threw in some computer terms and some street talk and think it's got cred.  Fail.  And wtf, Darlene is now totally a hipster.  I'm a female in the computer industry and I loved her last season but this season she's just dumb.  She's not even believable.

God how fucking boring this season has been.  I recorded it so I could binge watch and can't even get past the third episode.

I could care a less about season 3.  They had a unique amazing show and totally ruined it.

[green]

6 hours ago, Sup wit dat said:

I was so addicted to this show through season 1.  It was amazing.  But for season 2 it looks like they ran out of hacker ideas and turned it into another stupid, typical government/corporation espionage show.  They threw in some computer terms and some street talk and think it's got cred.  Fail.  And wtf, Darlene is now totally a hipster.  I'm a female in the computer industry and I loved her last season but this season she's just dumb.  She's not even believable.

God how fucking boring this season has been.  I recorded it so I could binge watch and can't even get past the third episode.

I could care a less about season 3.  They had a unique amazing show and totally ruined it.

To each their own.  I found this season highly riveting and getting better.  Sure it is a slower lead-in than in season 1 but that is because things are getting more and more complicated.  The hack was idealistic but totally naive and now ramifications and ripple effects are happening that f.society never foresaw.  Give it time.

And in the end you might indeed not like season 2 but until you actually see it and not just the first three episodes how do you really know?

Also season 2 has many clues (a lot visual btw) most of us usually didn't get on first view causing a lot of layers to this season and a lot of second viewing to catch what was really happening.

Edited October 1, 2016 by green

[Sup wit dat]

Yeah, definitely everyone has their own likes and dislikes in tv.  I dunno why I'm so pissed off over a tv show, heh, but it feels like I waited so long only to be let down in a big way.  

I miss last season when I paused/rewound so many scenes that it would take me 3 hours to watch a one-hour show.  I'd read the computer screens to see what they were doing and make sure I heard what was said.  Every. Word. It was awesome.

But as soon as the plot is about nothing more than a murderous white collar thug syndicate and kidnappings and whodunnit I get bored because I can turn on any channel and watch that same old stuff.

In the beginning they showed a scene where Elliot launches cryptowall.  The other guy says something like "it's like it's coming alive".  Really?  It's a cryptowall program I can buy for .01 bitcoin.

(Note to the NSA:  no I haven't bought cryptowall so don't be coming to my house with tasers, lol)

I want a dysfunctional computer savvy f-society to root for.  I don't want another crime murder mystery that's like any other show.  

I haven't erased it yet so maybe I'll try watching more.  Maybe now that my initial disappointment is out of the way I might be able to choke down the kool-aid,  but I get the feeling it will be more of the same 'ol.

They need to hire me before they release s3.  I've got plenty of ideas for a good show!

Edited October 1, 2016 by Sup wit dat

[green]

15 hours ago, Sup wit dat said:

Yeah, definitely everyone has their own likes and dislikes in tv.  I dunno why I'm so pissed off over a tv show, heh, but it feels like I waited so long only to be let down in a big way.  

I miss last season when I paused/rewound so many scenes that it would take me 3 hours to watch a one-hour show.  I'd read the computer screens to see what they were doing and make sure I heard what was said.  Every. Word. It was awesome.

But as soon as the plot is about nothing more than a murderous white collar thug syndicate and kidnappings and whodunnit I get bored because I can turn on any channel and watch that same old stuff.

In the beginning they showed a scene where Elliot launches cryptowall.  The other guy says something like "it's like it's coming alive".  Really?  It's a cryptowall program I can buy for .01 bitcoin.

(Note to the NSA:  no I haven't bought cryptowall so don't be coming to my house with tasers, lol)

I want a dysfunctional computer savvy f-society to root for.  I don't want another crime murder mystery that's like any other show.  

I haven't erased it yet so maybe I'll try watching more.  Maybe now that my initial disappointment is out of the way I might be able to choke down the kool-aid,  but I get the feeling it will be more of the same 'ol.

They need to hire me before they release s3.  I've got plenty of ideas for a good show!

Fair enough but what murder mystery are you referring to here?  There was Scott's wife that Tyrell semi-accidentally choked to death last season and there are all the lives lost a decade back at the Washington Township plant.  How are they mysteries though?

I wrote in another post that this show is like an ink blot test as in we see in it what we want to see.  This was after reading a later episode review here where the reviewer likened the show to a tonal poem mentioning that she was an English lit major back in the day.  I've seen posts from people in the psychology field feeling it is about Elliot's interior journey.  I've seen some strange sci-fi takes on the show.  I've seen politicos and history types looking at the show as the cyclic nature of revolt etc.  There is discussion about the nature of reality itself even.  And, yes, I've seen techs like you into the hacking big time. 

Everyone views this show through their own colored glasses looking for the things that they are in tune with most I believe.  Or just think of the blind men and the elephant parable instead.

This is what is great about the show when you think about it.  Everyone gets a slice of what they like while also getting a smorgasbord of other angles to expand into and grow with.  And it all gets woven together into a greater whole than it's parts.

So yes it is about the part that interests you most, the hacking and tech stuff.  But it is also about the unintended consequences of sudden and not fully thought out changes in the socio-economic fabric of society.  It is about revolutions trying to be co-oped by people who didn't start them.  It is about a young man's journey into himself.  It is about creative compositions and camera angles etc (tonal poem lady) as well.  It is about what constitutes the nature of reality even.  So I would argue that it is anything but the same old same old.

[Sup wit dat]

18 hours ago, green said:

 

I wrote in another post that this show is like an ink blot test as in we see in it what we want to see.  This was after reading a later episode review here where the reviewer likened the show to a tonal poem mentioning that she was an English lit major back in the day.  I've seen posts from people in the psychology field feeling it is about Elliot's interior journey.  I've seen some strange sci-fi takes on the show.  I've seen politicos and history types looking at the show as the cyclic nature of revolt etc.  There is discussion about the nature of reality itself even.  And, yes, I've seen techs like you into the hacking big time.

Everyone views this show through their own colored glasses looking for the things that they are in tune with most I believe.  Or just think of the blind men and the elephant parable instead.

This is what is great about the show when you think about it.  Everyone gets a slice of what they like while also getting a smorgasbord of other angles to expand into and grow with.  And it all gets woven together into a greater whole than it's parts.

So yes it is about the part that interests you most, the hacking and tech stuff.  But it is also about the unintended consequences of sudden and not fully thought out changes in the socio-economic fabric of society.  It is about revolutions trying to be co-oped by people who didn't start them.  It is about a young man's journey into himself.  It is about creative compositions and camera angles etc (tonal poem lady) as well.  It is about what constitutes the nature of reality even.  So I would argue that it is anything but the same old same old.

White hat...just sayin'.

I think they've expanded the plot so it will appeal to a wider audience, but sadly, it's not for me anymore.

I liked S1 so much and although hacking is way slower and way more boring and tedious than portrayed it was really authentic and interesting.  It felt like someone FiINALLY produced a show about "my world."  But the parts that I loved are now diluted with so much other stuff that it's not the same show for me anymore.  Oh, well.  I've still got "Silicon Valley,". Haha

Thanks @green for your posts.  I enjoyed reading them.  

I'm not completely giving up.  I'll record S3 with fingers crossed.

[Chaos Theory]

I actually liked season 2 more then season 1.  Season 1 has plenty of OMG moments that messed with your head but I think season 2 told a tighter story and I am hoping season 3 goes I the same direction.  There is only so many OMG moments you can write in a show before it gets old.